User talk:Tim Sheerman-Chase

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Welcome to Iron Chariots Wiki! We hope you will contribute much and well. You will probably want to read the help pages. Again, welcome and have fun! Kazim 15:44, 14 February 2014 (CST)

Hi Tim, I tried to reply to your email asking for permission to update the front page, but it bounced. I say go ahead.

Also, would you be interested in helping to approve new members? I notice you've been pretty active lately and I could use some help. --Kazim 10:01, 8 April 2014 (CDT)

I am not sure how long I can keep up my edit rate but I keep finding stuff to do. :) Not sure why my email address is bouncing emails - I'll look into it. I am willing and able to help with new user registration. Did you get me email from a while back that thumbnails are not being generated on the wiki? (the gremlins might have eaten that too) --Tim Sheerman-Chase 10:08, 8 April 2014 (CDT)


Mental note to self: How many times was John beheaded?

I was confused by this:

Mark 6:14 And king Herod heard of him; (for his name was spread abroad:) and he said, That John the Baptist was risen from the dead, and therefore mighty works do shew forth themselves in him.

Mark 6:16 But when Herod heard thereof, he said, It is John, whom I beheaded: he is risen from the dead.

Mark 6:25 And she came in straightway with haste unto the king, and asked, saying, I will that thou give me by and by in a charger the head of John the Baptist.

Mark 6:27 And immediately the king sent an executioner, and commanded his head to be brought: and he went and beheaded him in the prison,

How many times was John beheaded? Apparently Mark 6:17 onwards is a flashback: [1]

New pages


I tried to email you at both the addresses I have for you, but they both bounced. I hope you see this. Let me toss off a few words about what's on my mind right now regarding your new edits.

I'm worried because any time we have one person doing the bulk of the new editing on the wiki, there's not much other oversight about whether the content is really suitable or not. Generally speaking I try to be extremely conservative with creating new articles. In the last few weeks I noticed you were creating many dozens of new articles with new categories, and I'm not sure if they are necessary articles or bloat.

I hate to throttle you on this since I'm not actively visiting Iron Chariots on a regular basis, but Matt and I envisioned this as a repository dealing with common apologetics arguments. To pick a random example among the many articles created recently: Not all events necessarily have causes

"Not all events necessarily have causes" is not a term people will be searching for. It is not the name of a common theistic or atheistic argument that stands alone, nor is it a formal fallacy. At best it seems like it would work as a subsection of the "first cause argument" page, which DOES reference a common argument with a name. But even then, the article I'm reading seems to be a lengthy conversational piece about the topic, not a succinct set of responses to frequently used apologetics.

Iron Chariots is not a blog or a magazine. It's a reference resource. You see what I mean?

--Kazim 13:02, 25 April 2014 (CDT)

Sorry about the email weirdness. Wiki discussion is fine. Most of my page creations are either apologetics arguments or renaming of existing pages. I don't remember creating many categories... 2 or 3 about two or three, certainly not dozens. I'd say about 10 or 12 have been created about philosophical concepts or books, which are separate from any specific argument.
The title "Not all events necessarily have causes" was my attempt at being user friendly. Perhaps philosophical terminology of concepts would be better, in this case it would be "brute contingencies" or "contingent brute facts".
I agree that apologetic arguments and counter-arguments have primacy. However, this concept occurs in all(?) variants of the cosmological argument and is probably the biggest counter argument. I think there are about 4 cosmological argument pages on the wiki. I wanted to put additional detail somewhere on the wiki but I think putting it within each of the arguments pages would have bloated them with significant duplication of content. Similarly, if we put a full in depth discussion for and against "infinite regress" on every page separately, it will be horribly duplicated since it is such a common concept.
I guess we should ask ourselves, how much detail is necessary for the concepts we discuss? Should the detail of concepts go on the main article page or on supporting pages? Perhaps "Not all events necessarily have causes" should be merged into "principle of sufficient reason"? Should all the cosmological arguments be merged? Perhaps work needs to focus on the common arguments and when that is done, review. It seems to me a discussion of key concepts such as infinite regress & principle of sufficient reason is more important than rehashing logical fallacies where are already well documented elsewhere. A push in the right direction would be appreciated! --Tim Sheerman-Chase 13:45, 25 April 2014 (CDT)
Sorry, it looks like Kyle Youmans is the one creating all the categories, not you. I'm trying to bring in a few more people on this discussion so we can brainstorm about managing a consistent content style. --Kazim 13:57, 25 April 2014 (CDT)
If I might weigh in: it seems to me that readers will most likely read the page they came for, but probably won't look at related pages unless there's a good reason to do so (such as a "Main article at..." link). So as a rule of thumb, it's best to keep information on existing pages, rather than create new ones. It's also easier to split a section off into its own article, than it is to combine multiple articles into one. --Arensb 15:18, 25 April 2014 (CDT)
I think I understand but unsure if I am correctly interpreting your point. I think you are suggesting that new content should generally be added to each argument page. You mention that articles may need to be split into separate articles, but I am not sure what circumstances this would occur - presumably when it gets too long? If so, I agree. The main argument article should be comprehensive but perhaps some of the more obscure details can be put it related pages that are linked, preferably using the "main article" template. I think the cosmological argument is good in this regard. What do you think?
I suggest we move the discussion to Project talk:Layout and styleguide. Watching that page might be a good idea too. --Tim Sheerman-Chase 04:00, 28 April 2014 (CDT)


Have you heard of a program called Rbutr? It was created to counter false information on the internet so I think that it would be a great tool to use to show people the arguments presented on this wiki. Kyle Youmans 18:30, 6 May 2014 (CDT)

I had not heard of it previously. It's an interesting concept and it might be a useful research tool. I am glad they use hashes to see where I browse rather than totally violating privacy. --Tim Sheerman-Chase 12:34, 8 May 2014 (CDT)

Ironchariots Awareness

How can I get more people to find this website? Kyle Youmans 19:17, 29 May 2014 (CDT)

That is a complicated question! I am not sure I have much insight here. :) The two main areas might be what we can do directly to the wiki and also what resources are available outside the wiki. Improving the wiki to make it more useful and findable on search engines is the easier one. We probably could do with improving the popular pages, improving navigation, content and images. We might do better in adding articles that are really of interest to people who are grappling with these issues and underpin the classic arguments (e.g. What would it take to change your mind?) and avoid duplicating excelling content of other websites. People's mights are chanced by highlighting and questioning their assumptions.
What we can do outside the wiki: encourage links to the wiki (by making the wiki useful and persuasion). There is the similar wiki RationalWiki which is broader in coverage and seem popular but they have page counts turned off. If we have in depth content, we might get a link to the article. Some generic tips: [2]. Perhaps we could get a selection in publishable ebook/paper format? Any thoughts yourself? --Tim Sheerman-Chase 12:51, 30 May 2014 (CDT)

Criticism required (demanded!)

Hi Tim,

I don't see any other active members on the Wiki and wondered if you could help me improve on the page I'm working on? Sometimes I am blind to mistakes I make and I don't always have the sense of putting things in the right order. I need someone to criticise or find flaws on the page or arguments/rebuttals made.

~Dally —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dally (talkcontribs), 20:30, 7 February 2015

Will do! I'll make changes and use the talk page for the Sikhism article.--Tim Sheerman-Chase 04:42, 8 February 2015 (CST)

I have a question for you

Hi, how many people are editing or active on this wiki? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jack (talkcontribs), 16:40, 11 July 2015‎

It's pretty quiet I suppose. It's mainly me and Imadmagician. There are 4 or 5 occasional people. The founders do not get hands on these days. Probably should do more recruiting... --Tim Sheerman-Chase 16:44, 11 July 2015 (CDT)

RationalWiki article and template

Hey, what do you think about the rationalwiki article and template so far? I used my rationalwiki teplate in the Jesus article —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jack (talkcontribs), 15:02, 12 July 2015‎

It's a good idea but should be used selectively. There is some overlap between RationalWiki and here. If an article is in scope of this wiki, it is pointless linking to RationalWiki because the information should be in our article already. If it is an article which is out of scope but would be a useful resource, then link. Most articles would not need a RationalWiki link, I think. There are often better resources to link to than RationalWiki anyway.
There is no point rewriting or duplicating RationalWiki, which has a much broader scope (and they are more popular). We really focus on apologetics. --Tim Sheerman-Chase 16:21, 12 July 2015 (CDT)
I agree. Also RationalWiki has a more robust editing system then iron chariots, a larger diversity of templates, and doesn't download index.gz files every third or so click.--BruceGrubb 07:49, 17 August 2016 (CDT)
I believe we are on a fairly ancient godaddy server, which makes glitches common and upgrades problematic... --Tim Sheerman-Chase 11:04, 17 August 2016 (CDT)

Atheist groups category structure

I see you deleted Category:Atheist groups in the United States, Category:Atheist groups in Texas, and Category:Atheist groups on the Internet. Those categories are not empty. Do you think we should just have a "flat" Category:Atheist groups until it gets more members, or did you have an alternative (sub-)category structure in mind? - dcljr 17:28, 4 October 2015 (CDT)

I think it's best with a flat structure. I am not sure there is much point having a list of atheist groups really so I don't think it will expand in the near future. --Tim Sheerman-Chase 09:21, 5 October 2015 (CDT)
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