Talk:What about all the good things religion has given us?
This article seems to miss a fundamental point in the proposition it is refuting; Atheism and religiosity are not synonymous. That religions sometimes do good is not the same as saying theists do good.
I like the idea of this article, but it needs some work. Here are my suggestions:
- The title ought to be more general, so "sub-arguments" can go under the same topic.
- A general argument against anything 'good' claimed to be the sole product of religion.
- Some sort of statement that such an argument, even if accepted, would not prove religious claims are correct. The claim that there is a teapot orbiting the sun between Earth and Mars is unfounded, even if the person making the claim has opened a hundred non-profit hospitals for sick children.
- A logical format. A numbered list of "good" things said to be provided by religion.
- Reasoning or examples to back up the assertions where each item is stated to be:
- not only provided by religious groups,
- not principally motivated by religion itself,
- provided better or more fairly by non-religious organizations.
- A list of 'bad' things religions do in accomplishing the 'good' things they do.
Also, recognize yourself that the fact that something could be does not show it is. If you say, for instance, that there is some other motivation for people to help in soup kitchens, don't argue as if that is the only motivation. A sense of obligation to one's religious group is also a motivation. We really just want to show we're not all greedy, miserable wretches without religion, not that none of us are.--Jaban 14:34, 30 December 2009 (CST)
- May I suggest that this page be renamed to Argument from utility (see The Santa Delusion by Greta Christina). It could also be the main article for a Category:Arguments from utility category: ones that argue that religious claims are useful, not that they're true. --Arensb 11:38, 23 March 2012 (CDT)
What about the Dark Ages?
The section currently says ...
- •Christianity caused the dark ages..."
While I would be among the first to to point out the multiple failings of religion and religious thought I think this one goes a bit too far. A quick reading of the relevant Wikipedia article would not seem to support the claim. At the very least the claim needs to be sourced.--Bob M 10:05, 10 November 2011 (CST)
- I found The Tragedy of Theology: How Religion Caused and Extended the Dark Ages but I haven’t had time to read it all. Certainly the barbarian hordes that overcame Rome were part of the cause and Christianity didn’t cause it all. Proxima Centauri 15:01, 10 November 2011 (CST)
- Self evidently the fall of Rome was not "caused" by Christianity. The "dark ages" which followed can be considered "dark" for two reasons: it was somehow a "dark" time for humanity, or they were "dark" in the sense of "historically obscure". I see that the comment above has been toned down a bit now but it still doesn't seem to be a fantastic argument. --Bob M 01:07, 11 November 2011 (CST)