Talk:Jehovah's Witnesses

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The recently added paragraph on blood transfusions, in my opinion, is entirely dishonest. It represents their beliefs and practices inaccurately, and uses hostile language and misconceptions to attack their obviously distasteful (and arguably immoral) rule.

While stated opposition to transfusions is required by members, and parents are usually encouraged or asked to actively prevent transfusions, it is not the official policy, and in my experience not actual practice, to demand active prevention on penalty of excommunication. I have not heard of a single case where a member was threatened with excommunication if they did not cooperate with a "plot" to kidnap their child from a hospital.

And excuse my sarcasm, but they are "generally" charged with negligence? You mean more than the zero documented instances I've been able to find? When I was a Witness I heard stories of children being temporarily made wards of the court throughout medical procedures requiring blood, and those cases are all documented. But I've never found any documented cases of the parents being charged with negligence for refusing treatment, nor parents being charged with kidnapping. The stories circulated within the church and among former members seem to be based on "what if" scenarios, not actual cases.

I would like to see an attack on the religion for (a) teaching people untruths about blood transfusions to create an environment of fear surrounding them and mistrust of the medical system in general, (b) encouraging members to actively and illegally prevent blood transfusions for critically ill minors (part of which would include "kidnapping"), and (c) their continuing to use the legal system to delay treatment for each new case, despite the fact that they lose every time. But I'd like to see the attack done honestly and with legitimate arguments.

--Jaban 06:59, 22 September 2008 (CDT)

I agree, its the last two sentences that I have an issue with. Unless you have some source to back it up, I suggest it be deleted. I personally think the blood transfusion ban is stupid, and its personally scary as one of my best friends is a JW and would hate to have her need a blood transfusion to stay alive and have her refuse it. But I would not suggest that JW's kidnap children to prevent blood transfusions without backing it up. Unless someone can source that, I say delete it.
--Gizmoiscariot 12:04, 22 September 2008 (PDT)
Done.--Jaban 05:47, 2 May 2010 (CDT)


I moved "Racial Prejudice" to the Controversies heading. The articles quoted as evidence for racial prejudice against black people are dated to 1896, 1904, and 1914. I think it's safe to say that society as a whole, even the more liberal elements, had fairly strong prejudices through that period. I see nothing about the modern religion that fosters racial prejudice beyond the societal norm. In my view, they may reflect the prejudices of society, but they don't propagate them as a matter of policy. --Jaban 05:46, 2 May 2010 (CDT)

Door to door encounters

Opening a new section to catalog my interactions.

J.W. (Caroline) claims to have been an atheist from teens to early twenties, so offers an interesting insight (if honest) what powerful arguments would convince someone that J.W. is true. Be prepared for the following:

The Bible is true and unique (Watchtower June 1, 2012 issue) Various proofs include:

-Miracles in the bible

Need to understand circular reasoning, Dumbledore does miracles in Harry Potter that doesn't make it true

-Wishful thinking, wouldn't it be better if we could live eternally

a) no, a trillion Mona Lisa's make each one with no meaning, but if I only have ~80 years they are infinitely valuable

b) more obviously, wishing it was true doesn't make it true

-Prophecy (page 4 in this Watchtower issue)a perfect record

Any book written today can accurately "predict" the winner of WW2. There is no evidence these prophecies were written before they occurred. And strangely this prophetic power has disappeared with the introduction of modern record keeping. In Caroline's mind this is their most powerful argument so be ready for it.

-Archeology in the Bible is proven to be true in museums around the world. (History page 5)

London being an actual city doesn't make Harry Potter true

-Science (page 6)

The Jewish people were instructed to dispose of their trash outside of their camp, and wash with water after touching dead animals.

a) All ancient societies figured out to move their trash outside of where they lived

b) The Lev. 11 and Numbers 19 instructions where in no way medical instructions to wash one's hands. This scientific discovery was achieved in 1847 by Ignaz Semmelweis, and was not accepted until after Louis Pasteur discovered germ theory in 1864

-Harmonious (page 7)

The bible has one harmonious message as if crafted by one voice.

a) first of all the claim is complete B.S., in the book of Job alone two competing answers are given to the same question

b) If later parts do flow with earlier parts, perhaps you've heard of fan fiction? It isn't hard.

-Practical today (page 8)

a) So any book that is practical is true ? Again the Harry Potter reference works here

b) On a serious note "having a calm heart" did no other society realize this?

c) Why didn't lifespans extend until science allowed it to do so in the 1900s ?

-Answers life's big questions (page 9)

a) It doesn't and

b) every other religion makes the same claim

That's it, that is the official Jehovah Witness list of best ideas published in their flagship magazine to answer this the question why should I believe the bible is real. How this could convince anyone but a child is beyond me.

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