Noah's ark

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==The story==
 
==The story==
  
The story of Noah's ark is told in {{bible|Genesis 6:11-8:22}}. God sees that the world has become full of evil, and decides to kill everyone on Earth, with the exception of Noah, his three sons, and their respective wives.
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The story of Noah's ark is told in {{bible|Genesis 6:11-8:22}}. God sees that the world has become full of evil, and decides to kill everyone on Earth, with the exception of Noah, Noah's unnamed wife, and his three sons and their respective unnamed wives.
  
God explains to Noah that he is going to flood the earth, and tells him to build a vessel, an ark. God gives instructions on how to build the ark, what its dimensions should be, and so forth. He also tells Noah to bring representative samples of all living creatures: either one pair of each animal ({{bible|Genesis 6:19-20}}) or seven of each clean animal (or seven pairs) and two of each unclean animal ({{bible|Genesis 7:2-3}}).
+
God explains to Noah that he is going to flood Earth, and tells him to build an ark. God gives instructions on how to build the ark, what its dimensions should be, and so forth. He also tells Noah to bring representative samples of all living creatures: either one pair of each animal ({{bible|Genesis 6:19-20}}) or seven of each clean animal (or seven pairs) and two of each unclean animal ({{bible|Genesis 7:2-3}}).
  
After the animals have been loaded onto the ark, god sends rain and opens up the "fountains of the great deep" for forty days and forty nights, until the earth is covered with water and every living being has died, except for those on the ark. The floodwaters start subsiding, and a year later the ark rests on "the mountains of Ararat".
+
After the animals have been loaded onto the ark, God sends rain and opens up the "fountains of the great deep" for forty days and forty nights, until the earth is covered with water and every living being has died, except for those on the ark. The floodwaters start subsiding, and a year later the ark rests on "the mountains of Ararat."
  
 
Noah releases a raven through the window of the ark, but it can't find any dry land, and keeps flying around until the water subsides. Noah sends out a dove, but it returns, not having found any dry land. A week later, Noah releases the dove again, and this time it returns with an olive leaf in its beak, indicating that the water level is getting low. A week later, he releases the dove again, but it fails to return, and Noah looks out to see that the world has dried out.
 
Noah releases a raven through the window of the ark, but it can't find any dry land, and keeps flying around until the water subsides. Noah sends out a dove, but it returns, not having found any dry land. A week later, Noah releases the dove again, and this time it returns with an olive leaf in its beak, indicating that the water level is getting low. A week later, he releases the dove again, but it fails to return, and Noah looks out to see that the world has dried out.
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==Counter-arguments==
 
==Counter-arguments==
  
 +
# This story assumes that a perfectly loving [[Omnibenevolent]] God killed the whole human population including innocent babies and children.  A perfectly just God judges that these babies and children  deserved death by drowning. A God such as the Christian God should have been able to take a different route rather than killing everyone, and he would have wanted to take practically any other route because he is supposedly omnibenevolent.
 
# There are millions of known animal species in the world; it would take an impossibly large ship to hold representatives of all species, not to mention food for at least a year.
 
# There are millions of known animal species in the world; it would take an impossibly large ship to hold representatives of all species, not to mention food for at least a year.
# Assuming that Noah did not take two of each species, but two of each "[[Kind#Biblical_.22Kinds.22|kind]]", that still requires an awfully rapid [[evolution]] explosion to account for the biological diversity today.  If all creatures on earth were destroyed some five thousand years ago in the Great Flood, it would require incredibly fast evolution to cause, for instance, the dog "kind" to produce both dire wolves and chihuahuas. If we take a very conservative estimate of 1 million species that decended from creatures on Noah's ark, and asume that 16,000 "kinds" of animal were on the ark, each "kind" would have had to evolve into over 62 species in the 4000 years since Noah's flood.
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# Assuming that Noah did not take two of each species, but two of each "[[Kind#Biblical_.22Kinds.22|kind]]", that still requires an awfully rapid [[evolution]] explosion to account for the biological diversity today.  If all creatures on earth were destroyed some five thousand years ago in the Great Flood, it would require incredibly fast evolution to cause, for instance, the dog "kind" to produce both dire wolves and Chihuahuas. If we take a very conservative estimate of 1 million species that descended from creatures on Noah's ark, and assume that 16,000 "kinds" of animal were on the ark, each "kind" would have had to evolve into over 62 species in the 4,000 years since Noah's flood.
 
# The flood story does not explain the present geographic distribution of species, e.g., how did marsupials wind up in Australia, and only in Australia?
 
# The flood story does not explain the present geographic distribution of species, e.g., how did marsupials wind up in Australia, and only in Australia?
# The story of Noah is not the first Middle Eastern deluge story. The story told by [[Utnapishtim]] in "The Epic of [[Gilgamesh]]", in which the god [[Enlil]] and other deities drown the world to rid it of evil, is referred to as far back as 2000 B.C.E.  Its most complete version comes from tablets dated between 669 and 633 B.C.E.  The modern book of [[Genesis]] was not compiled for another 200 years.
+
# The story of Noah is not unique. For one, there are several versions of the Noah account itself, passed down and changed over time, with only the latest version being used in the Bible. But even it is derivative of previous flood myths.
# The Deluge would have meant the resetting of DNA lines for nearly every living thing on earth.  All DNA lines should curiously and rapidly narrow to small breeding populations located in the Middle East.  Ignoring every other creature on earth, we can say with some confidence, that human DNA lines appear to originate in Africa. Most lines do not appear to have stopped in the middle east 4000 to 5000 years ago.
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#* The flood myth in the [[Epic of Gilgamesh]], similar in many respects to that of Noah, is dated as early as 2150 BCE (Sumerian version) with the latest "standard" Akkadian tablets dated between 1,300 and 1,000 BCE.
# The Deluge, according to available timelines, occurred between 2348 B.C.E. and 2150 B.C.E. It should have represented a clear historical breaking point for every civilization around the world. No such break point exists. The river of history appears to have continued flowing uninterrupted through the Great Flood.
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#* The oldest fragments of the [[Septuagint]], which forms the basis of modern version of Genesis in the Bible, is dated to 132 AD with its composition beginning between 300 and 200 BCE. The Wellhausen hypothesis dates the composition of the earliest forms of Genesis to between 950 and 500 BCE.
 +
#* Note that this is the dating of the tablets and texts themselves, not of the timeline of the story. The earlier date of composition is a factor in showing the Biblical version of the story to be derivative.
 +
# The Deluge would have meant the resetting of DNA lines for nearly every living thing on earth.  All DNA lines should curiously and rapidly narrow to small breeding populations located in the Middle East.  Ignoring every other creature on earth, we can say with some confidence, that human DNA lines appear to originate in Africa. Most lines do not appear to have stopped in the middle east 4,000 to 5,000 years ago.
 +
# The Deluge, according to the [[Ussher chronology]], occurred circa 2348 BCE. It should have represented a clear historical breaking point for every civilization around the world. No such breaking point exists. History appears to continue uninterrupted through the flood in every other part of the world.
 
# Once the animals got off the ark, they would have nothing to eat. All the plants would have died in the flood, so the herbivores would have nothing to eat. The carnivores would wipe them out anyway, and then they would die too.
 
# Once the animals got off the ark, they would have nothing to eat. All the plants would have died in the flood, so the herbivores would have nothing to eat. The carnivores would wipe them out anyway, and then they would die too.
# Creationists often claim that there were only babies of each species and only seeds of each plant on the ark, but then this would require a time for them to grow. For every ten units of mass on one level of the food chain, only one unit of mass can be created on the next level. That means for a lion, which wieghs over 400 pounds, to become fully grown, he needs to eat 4,000 pounds of meat, and that animal would have to eat 40,000 pounds of plant to get that much weight. It is therefore absurd to think that Noah could have taken babies on the ark.
+
# Creationists often claim that there were only babies of each species and only seeds of each plant on the ark, but then this would require a time for them to grow. For every ten units of mass on one level of the food chain, only one unit of mass can be created on the next level. That means for a lion, which weighs over 400 pounds, to become fully grown, he needs to eat 4,000 pounds of meat, and that animal would have to eat 40,000 pounds of plant to get that much weight.
 +
# A single worldwide deluge cannot explain the distribution of fossils in the fossil record:
 +
#* Radiometric dating, geological layering (both fossils and otherwise), major extinction events, corrosion, and mountain range formation all line up to show the same age. Any argument that attacks a single dating method has to address why all of them show the same thing.
 +
#* Even if the dating method is not accepted as accurate (i.e. you don't believe a fossil is 250 million years old), every dating method shows the same relative difference. So to be successful, even an argument that attacks every dating method would have to show why they're all out by the same amount, to account for the agreement over the relative age.
 +
#* Given the distribution of fossils, even if fossilization were accelerated under high-pressure water, which it is not, there have still been several times when almost all life has been wiped out (we're talking 50-75% of all species going extinct, not 50-75% of all individual animals dying). No apologist argument addresses all five major extinction events.
 +
# What about the complex ecosystems that would have been destroyed from the flood? All it would have taken is one animal dying and then the other couldn't reproduce and would die, and the animals that require that species alive for any number of reasons would have died, and subsequently would have killed off an entire ecosystem or more. A birth defect would have a remarkable chance of occuring which could have caused an outcome such as this.
 +
# Considering that the waters from around the world would have mixed, the content of salt would have been altered resulting in the sea life being killed worldwide.
 +
# Isn't God all-knowing, and therefore knowing of all possibilities aside from a global flood which killed babies and that required a family to commit incest and their subsequent children to do the same down all generations?
  
'''Counter Arguments'''
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==Flood models==
  
# Wood is a bad ship building material. While the ark is supposed to be roughly 450 feet long, modern shipwrights can build a wooden ship about 300 feet long, that require steel braces to keep it from breaking.
 
# All of the animals could not have gotten there. Is a polar bear going to swim from the north pole just to get on a boat? Is a sloth going to walk there?
 
# Special habitats: Did the ark have special habitat chambers for the animals that required special temperatures or humidity levels?
 
# No one knows what a "kind" is. If someone says that all the modern dogs came from the dog kind, then that person acknowledges that evolution happens.
 
# Some arguments state that the ark took only infants. The bible says there was a pair. A male and his '''mate'''. The word mate implies sexual maturity.
 
# There isn't enough room to house all of the animals in adult form, food, corridors, bracing, and all other necessities, without overloading the ark.
 
# Contrary to a "Doctor's" beliefs, moonpools will snap the boat in half, and drogue stones will cause the ark to go in a direction with the waves that will capsize it.
 
# Disposing of waste from all the animals with 8 people, from three decks, at least one of which waste will have to be carried up, is a daunting task at best.
 
  
===Counter Arguments to the Flood itself===
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===Vapor Canopy===
  
Counters to the origin of the water
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This is the Flood Model in which the water was suspended above Earth in ice, liquid water, or water vapor state. At the end of the seven days, it came down to the surface as rain.
  
===Vapor canopy===
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If a canopy of more than 40 feet of water were suspended above Earth, atmospheric pressure would skyrocket to 64 times the norm; nitrogen and oxygen would reach toxic levels causing [[Wikipedia:Decompression sickness|the bends]] worldwide. If the canopy began as vapor, it would have to be at a minimum of 100 degrees Celsius to remain in a gaseous state. As this heat dispersed, Earth would have been cooked. If the suspended water were in ice form, the gravitational potential energy would also have raised the temperature past the boiling point. Some models have the ice orbiting Earth; if it were not within the ozone layer, UV radiation would have broken them apart.
  
-Model in which the water was suspended above the Earth until the 40 days of rain. In the form of water, ice, or vapor.
+
A canopy thick enough to provide the water for a global flood would have blocked a great deal of sunlight, lowering the temperature greatly.
  
# Water: A canopy holding more then 40 feet of water would cause atmospheric pressure to skyrocket to 64 times higher then standard pressures. Pressure this high would raise Nitrogen and Oxygen to toxic levels causing the bends world wide.
+
===Hydroplate===
# If the water was in gas form, (water needs to be at 100°C to be in a gas form), the atmosphere would be superheated and the ark would have been cooked.
+
# If the water began as ice the gravitational potential energy would cause similar temperatures, as well as blocking out the sun.
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# Any water orbiting the Earth would be broken apart by the UV radiation.
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# Friction caused by this much water falling through the atmosphere may have ignited the atmosphere, and at the very least would have made it inhospitable for life.
+
  
===Hydro Plate===
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This model proposes that roughly ten miles below the Earth's surface was a layer of water, and at the end of the seven days, the crust of the earth ruptured and the pressurized water shot out and fell as rains.
  
-Model in which a layer of water was contained roughly ten miles down and was released by ruptures in the Earth's crust. (Fountains of the deep)
+
Rock (with the exception of pumice) doesn't float, a layer of water below Earth's crust would have been forced to the surface long before the flood. Even a mile deep, the earth is hot enough to boil water. When it did finally come out it would have been superheated, as that heat dispersed throughout the atmosphere the global temperature would have increased dramatically and the ark would be cooked. There is also a large lack of evidence. When the water escaped from the ground, it would have left huge gashes in Earth's crust. Blowing through ten miles of rock is no small task, there should be large holes, and poorly sorted basaltic deposits (Noah also would have had to watch his head for falling rocks). Such formations should be easily visible but we see none.
 
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# As the a majority of the Earth's Crust is not made of pumice, it doesn't float. As a result, the water would have been forced the the surface long before the flood.  
+
# Even a mile down, the water would have been boiling. Since it was under high pressure, it would have been unable to vaporize. When released, the heat would have dispersed into the atmosphere and cooked the ark.
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# Escaping waters would have left huge gashes in the Earth crust. Such huge formations would be obviously visible, but we see none.
+
  
 
===Comet===
 
===Comet===
  
-Model in which the flood waters came from a comet or comets that hit the Earth.
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Kent Hovind proposed that the flood waters came from comets that broke up in the atmosphere and rained water down to Earth.
 
+
# Any comet large enough to provide sufficient water to cover the highest mountains would have pulverized the Earth when it impacted.
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# Any comet burning up in the atmosphere would have had all of its water vaporized, and it would have been steam.
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+
===Where did the water go?===
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-Most models have the water draining into basins which are our present day oceans. During the flood there was much global reconstruction. Mountains were pushed up and the oceans were lowered.  
+
  
# The amount of heat required to make the crust malleable enough to cause such drastic change so quickly would have been disastrous to life.
+
Any comet large enough to contain all the water needed to flood Earth would have been too large to just break up in the atmosphere, and it would have taken far too many smaller ones for them to all come at Earth at the same time. Comets entering the atmosphere would have been burned up, and the water would be steam.
# If water had drained off the continents and into the new basins, we would expect to see sediment patterns such as those found in the Mediterranean Sea after the Straits of Gibraltar broke open, or in Washington when an ice dam broke. We see no such patterns.
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# Most sediments are carried with the water until the water slows or stops moving. We would expect most sediments to be in the ocean, where the water slowed down. Instead, we see most sediments on land.
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# Global reconstruction of the Earth's surface squeezed into such a short time would have cause tsunamis large enough to circle the globe, and the aftershocks of the earthquakes would have been devastating for years.
+
  
===Geological Evidence===
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===Runaway Subduction===
  
# If most mountains were formed at the same time, why do we see large variation in the erosion levels of the Rockies and the Appalachians. They should have eroded at the same rate.
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This flood model proposes that the pre-flood ocean floor sank into the mantle, the heat released caused the plate to melt faster. All the original plate subducted and the new magma raised the ocean floor and boiled off water that then fell as rains. When this magma cooled, the sea floor lowered again and the oceans got deeper. Isostatic rebound formed mountains like the Rocky Mountains and the Andes.  
# If all fossil bearing strata were laid down during the flood, why didn't one dinosaur make up to the higher levels?
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# The polar ice caps would have floated and broken apart. They would not have regrown this fast. Greenland's wouldn't have regrown at all.
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# Why don't any modern plants or animals appear in the lower layers?
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# Small organisms dominate the lower strata layers, fluid dynamics states they should sink slower and as a result should be higher up.
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# No human artifacts are found in any layer except the uppermost layers.
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# For the flood timeline to be true, some formation were formed by 15 meters of sediment settled per day. Despite this, there are significant differences in the chemical properties from centimeter to centimeter. i.e., carbonate level changes would have to take place on a minute to minute basis.
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# Chalk is made of tiny plankton bodies 700-1000 angstroms(100&times;10<sup>−12</sup> meter). Objects like this settle at a rate of 0.0000154 millimeters/Second. During the flood they would have settled about half a meter.  
+
  
===Biological evidence===
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To get the proposed subduction rates, the thermal diffusivity of Earth (how well heat moves through Earth) would have to increase 10,000 fold. Additional miracles are required to cool the new ocean floor in months in stead of the millions of years it should take. Studies estimated that the energy released would be 10^28 joules, more then enough to boil off the oceans. The mantle also would have had to be hotter for this model to work. All this heat would have to be radiated to the surface, and eventually out of the atmosphere.
  
# Tree rings date back 10,000 years. Ice core samples in Greenland date back 40,000 years. Neither of these show any sign of any kind of global flood.
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===New ocean basins===
# Most plants would have been killed not only by being underwater for so long, but because at their depth there would have been little to no sunlight to photosynthesize.
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# Noah must have taken vast quantities of seeds with him on the ark in order to repopulate the plants of the world.
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# Most seeds would be under miles of sediment, preventing sprouting.
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# Many plants require humus and other organic matter to grow in. Such soils would have been stripped by the flood.
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# Some plants only germinate after a fire. Fires would have been rare after the flood for obvious reasons.
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# Even if Noah did bring all the seeds with him, many can't survive a year without germinating. There must have been a large greenhouse on the ark as well.
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# Fish require different habitats: some need salt water, some need fresh water, some need submerged logs, different oxygen levels and other factors, the flood would have disrupted and destroyed many on these habitats.
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# Many corals need shallow water. The sediments from the flood and the flood water itself would kill the shallow coral that we see today.
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# Many diseases can only survive in non-resistant human population for a few weeks before the population becomes resistant. Diseases such as typhus, measles, smallpox, polio, gonorrhea, and syphilis should have gone extinct during he flood.
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# Species such as mayflies would have died in a few days, and the larva need fresh, shallow running water, a rare condition during the flood.
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# The animals traveled impossible journeys to reach there current homes from Mount Ararat. Polar bears to the Arctic, Penguins, Koalas, Kangaroos, etc.
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# There hasn't been sufficient time for all the different body shapes, body structures, skin colors, facial structures to have evolved from just Noah's family.
+
  
===God's stupdity===
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This is the model that most others use to explain where the flood water went after the flood. It states that the water became our present day oceans, Earth's topography was much flatter in the time before the flood, and during the flood there was widespread reconstruction of the surface. After the flood the water drained into the new ocean basins.
  
# God could have just killed what we wanted to, and left the rest alone.  
+
The heat required to make the crust malleable enough for such widespread reconstruction packed into a few months would require additional miracles. Most sediments are found on high ground. Most sediments are transported with the water until the water slows down. Since it is expected that the water was rushing off the continents and into the basins, there should be much more sediment on the ocean floor, where the water slowed down and deposited to sediment. The opposite is true. With all that water rushing to the lower ground, there should be evidence of large torrents crossing the continents. There are similar marks in Washington when an ice dam broke and a lake drained.
# The whole point of the flood was to rid the world of evil and wickedness. Did it work?
+
  
 
==External Links==
 
==External Links==
 
===Logical Inconsistencies===
 
===Logical Inconsistencies===
 
* [http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/bad0d3c8a5fb8d8b?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 Torpedo Ye Arke], by Pat James
 
* [http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/bad0d3c8a5fb8d8b?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 Torpedo Ye Arke], by Pat James
* [http://skepdic.com/noahsark.html The Skeptic's Dictionary]  
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* [http://skepdic.com/noahsark.html The Skeptic's Dictionary]
 +
* [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MPrtyIGE7Y Nick Gisburne's analysis of Noah's Ark]
 +
* [http://www.thinkatheist.com/profiles/blogs/on-the-two-biblical-flood "Nelson"'s analysis of the two interwoven, contradictory Flood stories]
  
 
===Biblical Timelines===
 
===Biblical Timelines===

Revision as of 11:37, 12 September 2011

In the Bible, this is the story of how God drowned every person on earth with a great flood, sparing only a man named Noah and his family of seven. Fundamentalists believe that the story is literally true, and there have been many claims to have found the ark on which Noah and his family sailed.

Contents

The story

The story of Noah's ark is told in Genesis 6:11-8:22 Bible-icon.png. God sees that the world has become full of evil, and decides to kill everyone on Earth, with the exception of Noah, Noah's unnamed wife, and his three sons and their respective unnamed wives.

God explains to Noah that he is going to flood Earth, and tells him to build an ark. God gives instructions on how to build the ark, what its dimensions should be, and so forth. He also tells Noah to bring representative samples of all living creatures: either one pair of each animal (Genesis 6:19-20 Bible-icon.png) or seven of each clean animal (or seven pairs) and two of each unclean animal (Genesis 7:2-3 Bible-icon.png).

After the animals have been loaded onto the ark, God sends rain and opens up the "fountains of the great deep" for forty days and forty nights, until the earth is covered with water and every living being has died, except for those on the ark. The floodwaters start subsiding, and a year later the ark rests on "the mountains of Ararat."

Noah releases a raven through the window of the ark, but it can't find any dry land, and keeps flying around until the water subsides. Noah sends out a dove, but it returns, not having found any dry land. A week later, Noah releases the dove again, and this time it returns with an olive leaf in its beak, indicating that the water level is getting low. A week later, he releases the dove again, but it fails to return, and Noah looks out to see that the world has dried out.

Counter-arguments

  1. This story assumes that a perfectly loving Omnibenevolent God killed the whole human population including innocent babies and children. A perfectly just God judges that these babies and children deserved death by drowning. A God such as the Christian God should have been able to take a different route rather than killing everyone, and he would have wanted to take practically any other route because he is supposedly omnibenevolent.
  2. There are millions of known animal species in the world; it would take an impossibly large ship to hold representatives of all species, not to mention food for at least a year.
  3. Assuming that Noah did not take two of each species, but two of each "kind", that still requires an awfully rapid evolution explosion to account for the biological diversity today. If all creatures on earth were destroyed some five thousand years ago in the Great Flood, it would require incredibly fast evolution to cause, for instance, the dog "kind" to produce both dire wolves and Chihuahuas. If we take a very conservative estimate of 1 million species that descended from creatures on Noah's ark, and assume that 16,000 "kinds" of animal were on the ark, each "kind" would have had to evolve into over 62 species in the 4,000 years since Noah's flood.
  4. The flood story does not explain the present geographic distribution of species, e.g., how did marsupials wind up in Australia, and only in Australia?
  5. The story of Noah is not unique. For one, there are several versions of the Noah account itself, passed down and changed over time, with only the latest version being used in the Bible. But even it is derivative of previous flood myths.
    • The flood myth in the Epic of Gilgamesh, similar in many respects to that of Noah, is dated as early as 2150 BCE (Sumerian version) with the latest "standard" Akkadian tablets dated between 1,300 and 1,000 BCE.
    • The oldest fragments of the Septuagint, which forms the basis of modern version of Genesis in the Bible, is dated to 132 AD with its composition beginning between 300 and 200 BCE. The Wellhausen hypothesis dates the composition of the earliest forms of Genesis to between 950 and 500 BCE.
    • Note that this is the dating of the tablets and texts themselves, not of the timeline of the story. The earlier date of composition is a factor in showing the Biblical version of the story to be derivative.
  6. The Deluge would have meant the resetting of DNA lines for nearly every living thing on earth. All DNA lines should curiously and rapidly narrow to small breeding populations located in the Middle East. Ignoring every other creature on earth, we can say with some confidence, that human DNA lines appear to originate in Africa. Most lines do not appear to have stopped in the middle east 4,000 to 5,000 years ago.
  7. The Deluge, according to the Ussher chronology, occurred circa 2348 BCE. It should have represented a clear historical breaking point for every civilization around the world. No such breaking point exists. History appears to continue uninterrupted through the flood in every other part of the world.
  8. Once the animals got off the ark, they would have nothing to eat. All the plants would have died in the flood, so the herbivores would have nothing to eat. The carnivores would wipe them out anyway, and then they would die too.
  9. Creationists often claim that there were only babies of each species and only seeds of each plant on the ark, but then this would require a time for them to grow. For every ten units of mass on one level of the food chain, only one unit of mass can be created on the next level. That means for a lion, which weighs over 400 pounds, to become fully grown, he needs to eat 4,000 pounds of meat, and that animal would have to eat 40,000 pounds of plant to get that much weight.
  10. A single worldwide deluge cannot explain the distribution of fossils in the fossil record:
    • Radiometric dating, geological layering (both fossils and otherwise), major extinction events, corrosion, and mountain range formation all line up to show the same age. Any argument that attacks a single dating method has to address why all of them show the same thing.
    • Even if the dating method is not accepted as accurate (i.e. you don't believe a fossil is 250 million years old), every dating method shows the same relative difference. So to be successful, even an argument that attacks every dating method would have to show why they're all out by the same amount, to account for the agreement over the relative age.
    • Given the distribution of fossils, even if fossilization were accelerated under high-pressure water, which it is not, there have still been several times when almost all life has been wiped out (we're talking 50-75% of all species going extinct, not 50-75% of all individual animals dying). No apologist argument addresses all five major extinction events.
  11. What about the complex ecosystems that would have been destroyed from the flood? All it would have taken is one animal dying and then the other couldn't reproduce and would die, and the animals that require that species alive for any number of reasons would have died, and subsequently would have killed off an entire ecosystem or more. A birth defect would have a remarkable chance of occuring which could have caused an outcome such as this.
  12. Considering that the waters from around the world would have mixed, the content of salt would have been altered resulting in the sea life being killed worldwide.
  13. Isn't God all-knowing, and therefore knowing of all possibilities aside from a global flood which killed babies and that required a family to commit incest and their subsequent children to do the same down all generations?

Flood models

Vapor Canopy

This is the Flood Model in which the water was suspended above Earth in ice, liquid water, or water vapor state. At the end of the seven days, it came down to the surface as rain.

If a canopy of more than 40 feet of water were suspended above Earth, atmospheric pressure would skyrocket to 64 times the norm; nitrogen and oxygen would reach toxic levels causing the bends worldwide. If the canopy began as vapor, it would have to be at a minimum of 100 degrees Celsius to remain in a gaseous state. As this heat dispersed, Earth would have been cooked. If the suspended water were in ice form, the gravitational potential energy would also have raised the temperature past the boiling point. Some models have the ice orbiting Earth; if it were not within the ozone layer, UV radiation would have broken them apart.

A canopy thick enough to provide the water for a global flood would have blocked a great deal of sunlight, lowering the temperature greatly.

Hydroplate

This model proposes that roughly ten miles below the Earth's surface was a layer of water, and at the end of the seven days, the crust of the earth ruptured and the pressurized water shot out and fell as rains.

Rock (with the exception of pumice) doesn't float, a layer of water below Earth's crust would have been forced to the surface long before the flood. Even a mile deep, the earth is hot enough to boil water. When it did finally come out it would have been superheated, as that heat dispersed throughout the atmosphere the global temperature would have increased dramatically and the ark would be cooked. There is also a large lack of evidence. When the water escaped from the ground, it would have left huge gashes in Earth's crust. Blowing through ten miles of rock is no small task, there should be large holes, and poorly sorted basaltic deposits (Noah also would have had to watch his head for falling rocks). Such formations should be easily visible but we see none.

Comet

Kent Hovind proposed that the flood waters came from comets that broke up in the atmosphere and rained water down to Earth.

Any comet large enough to contain all the water needed to flood Earth would have been too large to just break up in the atmosphere, and it would have taken far too many smaller ones for them to all come at Earth at the same time. Comets entering the atmosphere would have been burned up, and the water would be steam.

Runaway Subduction

This flood model proposes that the pre-flood ocean floor sank into the mantle, the heat released caused the plate to melt faster. All the original plate subducted and the new magma raised the ocean floor and boiled off water that then fell as rains. When this magma cooled, the sea floor lowered again and the oceans got deeper. Isostatic rebound formed mountains like the Rocky Mountains and the Andes.

To get the proposed subduction rates, the thermal diffusivity of Earth (how well heat moves through Earth) would have to increase 10,000 fold. Additional miracles are required to cool the new ocean floor in months in stead of the millions of years it should take. Studies estimated that the energy released would be 10^28 joules, more then enough to boil off the oceans. The mantle also would have had to be hotter for this model to work. All this heat would have to be radiated to the surface, and eventually out of the atmosphere.

New ocean basins

This is the model that most others use to explain where the flood water went after the flood. It states that the water became our present day oceans, Earth's topography was much flatter in the time before the flood, and during the flood there was widespread reconstruction of the surface. After the flood the water drained into the new ocean basins.

The heat required to make the crust malleable enough for such widespread reconstruction packed into a few months would require additional miracles. Most sediments are found on high ground. Most sediments are transported with the water until the water slows down. Since it is expected that the water was rushing off the continents and into the basins, there should be much more sediment on the ocean floor, where the water slowed down and deposited to sediment. The opposite is true. With all that water rushing to the lower ground, there should be evidence of large torrents crossing the continents. There are similar marks in Washington when an ice dam broke and a lake drained.

External Links

Logical Inconsistencies

Biblical Timelines

Historical Timelines

Gilgamesh and Utnapishtim

DNA and Mapping Human Migration

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