Banana argument

From Iron Chariots Wiki
Revision as of 07:45, 19 December 2009 by Murphy (Talk | contribs)
Jump to: navigation, search

The banana argument is a variation on the argument from design, saying that some things are the way they are because they were designed especially for our pleasure and comfort.


Background information

This argument was presented by Ray Comfort as "the atheist's worst nightmare" in the Way of the Master episode entitled "The Beauty of a Broken Spirit—Atheism".


Way of the Master Version

Ray Comfort with a banana

Ray Comfort on Way of the Master:

"It's my theory of where the soda can may have come from. Billions of years ago, there was a big bang in space. Nobody knows what caused the big bang, it just happened. And from this bang issued this huge rock, on top of the rock was found a sweet, brown bubbly substance. And over millions of years, aluminum crept up the side, formed itself with a can and a lid and then a tab. And then millions of years later, red paint, blue paint, white paint fell from the sky and formed itself into the words '12 fluid ounces - Do not litter'."
"You're saying, 'What are you doing, you're insulting my intellect' - and so I am. Because we know, if the can is made there must be a maker. If it's designed there must be a designer. To believe the soda can happened by chance is to move into an intellectual-free zone... is to have an echo when you think... is to have brain liposuction"
"Behold, the atheists' nightmare. Now if you study a well-made banana, you'll find, on the far side, there are 3 ridges. On the close side, two ridges. If you get your hand ready to grip a banana, you'll find on the far side there are three grooves, on the close side, two grooves. The banana and the hand are perfectly made, one for the other. You'll find the maker of the banana, Almighty God, has made it with a non-slip surface. It has outward indicators of inward contents - green, too early - yellow, just right - black, too late. Now if you go to the top of the banana, you'll find, as with the soda can makers have placed a tab at the top, so God has placed a tab at the top. When you pull the tab, the contents don't squirt in your face. You'll find a wrapper which is biodegradable, has perforations. Notice how gracefully it sits over the human hand. Notice it has a point at the top for ease of entry. It's just the right shape for the human mouth. It's chewy, easy to digest and its even curved toward the face to make the whole process so much easier. Seriously, Kirk, the whole of creation testifies to the genius of God's creation."

List Version

Note that the banana:

  1. Is shaped for the human hand
  2. Has a non-slip surface
  3. Has outward indicators of inward content:
    Green - not ripe enough
    Yellow - just right for eating
    Black - too ripe
  4. Has a tab for easy removal of its wrapper
  5. Is perforated on the wrapper for easy peeling
  6. Has a biodegradable wrapper
  7. Is shaped for the human mouth
  8. Is pleasing to the taste buds
  9. Is curved towards the face to make the eating process easy

The conclusion: obviously the banana was designed by "Almighty God" for the benefit of human beings.


p1. We know that a soda can its obviously designed
p2. Bananas superficially appear similar to soda cans
c1. The banana is designed
c2. The designer is God

Counter arguments

False premise p1: Evolutionary straw man

The first fallacy in Comfort's argument is that he commits a straw man fallacy in his description of the evolutionary process. This is not uncommon for comfort who continually makes remarks about dogs crawling out of the primordial soup and not being able to find a mate or if evolution is true how come we don't see any crocoducks?

In this particular instance the main aspects of the straw man include the facts that:

  • A soda can does not have a process of self replication and generic variation. That being the case it is a bad comparison for evolution, as this hereditary development is the process which brings about the the change in biological organisms that Comfort is ultimately trying to convince us is impossible.
  • The first point not withstanding, the idea that a soda can would just form aluminium sides or the words '12 fluid ounces - Do not litter' for no reason (or presumably reasons of human convenience) is not consistent with natural selection, the main process by which evolution occurs. For positive changes to be propagated and or negative changes to be rejected, these changes must impact the organisms abilities to survive and replicate in some direct, or peripheral way. How would paint forming the English words 'Do not litter', in this way impact on the soda cans survival and replication abilities?

False premise p2: Illusions of design

The banana argument is built upon the assumption that everything that "looks designed" must have a designer. It inherits all of the weaknesses of other arguments from design.

Special pleading: The banana is designed

Even if the argument supported the existence of a banana designer, it wouldn't prove Comforts assumption that the banana designer is supernatural, or more specifically, his personal God.

As it turns out, the reason the common banana we buy in the supermarket shows so many hallmarks of design for humans convenience is because it is designed to some degree, just not in the way Comfort thinks.

The bananas that we eat today were specifically bred by humans to be a size that we like. Natural bananas are much smaller and are full of cherry-pit sized seeds. Far from being evidence of God, this is actually evidence of human "design".

This was possible due to variation under domestication. Ironically enough, the title of the very first chapter in Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species published 150 years ago. Domestication works exactly the same as the natural evolutionary process, except rather than a natural selection criteria, the domestication selection criteria is what best suits the animal or plant breeders purposes. He or she controls the hereditary outcomes of genetic linage by controlling which male and female of the species mate.

In fact, cultivated bananas are parthenocarpic, which means they have been selectively bred to the point where they are sterile and unable to produce viable seeds. This means that they can no longer propagate without human intervention such as grafting.

You may take some nihilistic solace in the fact that if the human race dies out, at least we will take the banana plant with us.

Other counter arguments

  • Even if the argument showed that bananas were designed, it would not prove that there is only one designer; maybe millions of banana designers participated.
  • Even if the argument showed that there once was a banana designer, it wouldn't prove that the banana designer still exists.
  • The argument provides no good reasons to suppose that a naturalistic, non-design explanation for bananas is improbable, let alone impossible.
  • The list of features above smacks of cherry picking to devise a good example. Given the range of variation in fruits and vegetables, the enormous number of possible combinations of their attributes, and the fact that the foods we eat are almost by definition the ones "most suited" for our consumption, it would be extremely improbable that no fruit or vegetable would seem "especially well-suited" for our use.
  • The fact that a banana fits perfectly in our hand might say more about the evolution of hands than it does about bananas. The human hand is very versatile, able to change shape enough to hold a tiny pebble or a large tree branch. Lots of things not designed for our enjoyment also fit in our hands (e.g., weapons).
  • The number of objects in the universe that are inedible and even dangerous to humans far outweighs the number of objects that are tasty. Is this evidence of a malevolent designer, or none at all?
  • Humans evolved to be able to eat naturally-occurring foods. From this perspective, the argument sounds a bit like Douglas Adams' analogy of a puddle thinking that the hole it's in was perfectly designed to contain it.
  • More animals than humans eat bananas (especially naturally occurring bananas). Perhaps bananas were created for monkeys and humans just knew a good thing when they saw it.
  • Humans eat all kinds of food and not all of it is easy to get at. The coconut is also enjoyed by humans and yet, apart from having a non-slip surface (like almost all natural objects) and tasting good (like most foods humans eat), it holds none of the other properties of the banana. A cow, whose meat some might say is far more delicious than a banana, is fairly difficult to hold in the hand when in its natural form. Like many other foods, cows also require special preparation before eating, otherwise some dangerous diseases can result. The diseases, by the way, come from bacteria that theists would also say were created by God.
  • Some humans are allergic to bananas, casting doubt on the premise that bananas or humans are designed one for the other.
  • Not an argument for Christianity. If it were designed, the banana could have been designed by Odin, Zeus or any other deity.

Additional notes

Ray Comfort in episode #103 of the Hellbound Alleee show, conceded that this is a bad argument due to the human domestication of the banana.

He has since recanted in somewhat of a notpology, that the argument is still valid as it was God who gave us the ability to domesticate said plants and animals, and furthermore that he no longer uses the banana argument solely because atheists have maliciously removed the argument from its proper context, a segment in which Comfort compares evolution to the spontaneous natural formation of a Coke can over millions of years.


See also

Argument from design Ray Comfort

External links


v · d Arguments for the existence of god
Anthropic arguments   Anthropic principle · Natural-law argument
Arguments for belief   Pascal's Wager · Argument from faith · Just hit your knees
Christological arguments   Argument from scriptural miracles · Would someone die for a lie? · Liar, Lunatic or Lord
Cosmological arguments   Argument from aesthetic experience · Argument from contingency · Cosmological argument · Fine-tuning argument · Kalam · Leibniz cosmological argument · Principle of sufficient reason · Unmoved mover · Why is there something rather than nothing?
Majority arguments   Argument from admired religious scientists
Moral arguments   Argument from justice · Divine command theory
Ontological argument   Argument from degree · Argument from desire · Origin of the idea of God
Dogmatic arguments   Argument from divine sense · Argument from uniqueness
Teleological arguments   Argument from design · Banana argument · 747 Junkyard argument · Laminin argument · Argument from natural disasters
Testimonial arguments   Argument from observed miracles · Personal experience · Argument from consciousness · Emotional pleas · Efficacy of prayer
Transcendental arguments   God created numbers · Argument from the meaning of life
Scriptural arguments   Scriptural inerrancy · Scriptural scientific foreknowledge · Scriptural codes
Personal tools
wiki navigation