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Mythicism

2013-03-10T12:35:10Z

Tatarize: /* Many early Christians died for their beliefs, and they wouldn't die for a lie. */

'''Mythicism''' is the general position that [[Jesus]] was not a historical person but a [[legend]], and that the [[gospel]]s were therefore written as works of fiction. [[Wikipedia:William Tell|William Tell]], [[Wikipedia:Paul Bunyan|Paul Bunyan]], [[Wikipedia:Robin Hood|Robin Hood]] and [[Wikipedia:King Arthur|King Arthur]] are generally considered non-historical, and mythicists argue that Jesus should be added to this list. The reasons for mythicism are typically [[arguments from silence]] and parallels to other known myths.

==Argument==
* There is no contemporary evidence that Jesus existed.
* The story of Jesus resembles the stories of other generally fictional characters.
* The onus is on those individuals who claim there was a historical Jesus to back up this positive claim.
** One should not believe in a historical Jesus.

==The Gospels==
Deep investigation into the gospels casts doubt on their reliability and authenticity. The truth is we have no idea who wrote the gospels, but we can learn about their authors by examining how these texts were constructed. We find that the gospels were written by Greek-speaking, educated, rhetorically-trained writers who were skilled in Greek composition (but who never called themselves disciples) - they were not written by uneducated, illiterate, lower-class, Aramaic-speaking, disciple peasants who never went to school and who possessed no knowledge of literature.

How, then, did the story reach the actual educated authors? Not from the disciples, but from people who heard the stories, who heard about the stories, etc. They were telling stories to convert people and they improved and changed the stories to fit their audiences. By the time the stories reached these authors, they had already been cast and recast through oral traditions for several decades, all of which shines serious doubt on the validity of their claims.

Many believers maintain that the gospels provide sufficient evidence for Jesus since they are supposed to have been written by eye-witnesses during his life. The problem with this is that none of the gospel writers met Jesus and they were written many decades after Jesus supposedly died. The earliest gospel (Mark) was probably written forty to forty-five years after Jesus died. None of the gospels' authors claim to be eye-witnesses and each gospel is written in the third-person. We have no idea who wrote the gospels or where they were written; we do not know who read them prior to the second century or if they investigated their claims in any useful way; but it is clear none of them ever met Jesus. To further support the fact that the gospel writers were not eye-witnesses, we can identify large discrepancies and contradictions amongst them. Many of the gospels do not agree on what Jesus did or said, with Mark in particular having problems.

There are indications that Mark may not have been a local living in Palestine, and his Gospel may have been written as a fiction.[http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_myth_history.htm#2] The authors Matthew and Luke got most of their information from Mark, often copying him verbatim. The gospels themselves are admittedly propagandist: “And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: but these are written that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have through his name.” (John 20:30-31) This hardly sounds like the work of objective historical reporting.

Many parts of the gospels were added after their first version, such as the end of Mark 16, and the story of Jesus saying "let he without sin cast the first stone." There is a whole [http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_bibl.htm list] of pieces that were later added in, and many of the books in the NT written by forgers [http://www.apollonius.net/forgery.pdf] (all this done by early Christians). Since the gospels have been deliberately meddled with, mistranslated many times, and changed over centuries of oral traditions, there is no sound basis for trusting them as reliable historical documents. What is more problematic is that the gospels contain many events that contradict the historical record.[http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_myth_history.htm#11]

===There is no contemporary evidence for Jesus===
====[[Paul the Apostle]] (Paul of Tarsus)====
Paul never claimed to have met Jesus in person - he claimed to have received instruction from the resurrected Jesus in a vision. His conversion happened after Jesus had already died. Paul even reveals to us that the earliest Christians were hallucinating on a regular basis, entering ecstatic trances, prophesying, relaying the communications of spirits, and speaking in tongues--so much, in fact, that outsiders thought they were lunatics (e.g., 1 Corinthians 14).

How convenient that Paul should have a vision and become the new church leader, subsequently introducing many rules of his own, given that up until that point he had been working to undermine the Christian movement. However, if there were such a Christian movement it does not appear anywhere in any historical account. In fact, the earliest records of Jesus start with Paul, who knew very little of Jesus' life, and many statements in the letters of Paul only make sense if Paul does not view Jesus Christ as a historical person. [http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_myth_history.htm#7]

====Christian [[apocrypha]]====
Stories about the stories do not qualify as historical evidence, any more than additional books about Superman prove the existence of Superman.

====[[Josephus]]====
There are good reasons to assume the relevant passages in Josephus are forgeries.

The Jewish historian Josephus Flavius was the earliest non-Christian to mention Jesus. Josephus' birth in 37 C.E., well after the alleged crucifixion of Jesus, means he could not have been an eyewitness account. Moreover, he wrote Antiquities in 93 C.E., even later than the first gospels. Many scholars think that Josephus' short accounts of Jesus (in Antiquities) came from interpolations perpetrated by a later Church father (most likely, Eusebius of Caesarea).

Antiquities of the Jews was written sometime after the year 90 C.E. It begins, “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth,” and arduously parallels the Old Testament up to the time when Josephus is able to add equally tedious historical recountings of Jewish life during the early Roman period. In Book 18, Chapter 3, this paragraph known as the [[Testimonium Flavian]] is encountered (Whiston’s translation):
<blockquote>
"At this time there was a wise man called Jesus, and his conduct was good, and he was known to be virtuous. Many people among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified, and to die. But those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive. Accordingly, he was perhaps the Messiah, concerning whom the prophets have reported wonders. And the tribe of the Christians, so named after him, has not disappeared to this day" (Antiquities 20:200)
</blockquote>
Many problems abound here. Firstly, this is the Arabic translation of the text. Many consider this a more accurate translation, it does not in anyway change the fact that it is an interpolation. I'm using it to show that even if we ignore that faulty greek translation which is not as accurately translated, this passage STILL does not appear until 300 years later when Eusebius, in the 4th century, cited all the "evidences" of Christianity obtained from Jewish and pagan sources. Eusebius, who admitted to forging multiple works, as well as lying for the sake of his beliefs, as Gibbon recounts: "I have repeated whatever may rebound to the glory, and suppressed all that could tend to the disgrace of our religion"

The text Gibbon speaks of is as follows:
<blockquote> "But even if the case were not such as our argument has now proved it to be, if a lawgiver, who is to be of ever so little use, could have ventured to tell any falsehood at all to the young for their good, is there any falsehood that he could have told more beneficial than this, and better able to make them all do everything that is just, not by compulsion but willingly? 'Truth, O Stranger, is a noble and an enduring thing; it seems, however, not easy to persuade men of it.' - d PLATO
</blockquote>
Now you may find in the Hebrew Scriptures also thousands of such passages concerning God as though He were jealous, or sleeping, or angry, or subject to any other human passions, which passages are adopted for the benefit of those who need this mode of instruction." (Chp. 31, Book 12 of Prae Paratio Evangelica).
* Which is also verified by Robert Ingersoll, "The great religious historian, Eusebius, ingenuously remarks that in his history he carefully omitted whatever tended to discredit the church, and that he piously magnified all that conduced to her glory." Ibid., Vol. 1, p. 293"
* Apparently Eusebius was the first to use this passage because it didn't exist during the 2nd and 3rd centuries. The passage is not found in the early copies of Josephus. Are we to assume it magically appeared there? Please. If it had been authentic you would have heard more about the passage during the centuries prior when the early chruch fathers were struggling to gather any pagan articles on such a person as Jesus. Instead their silence is deadly to this argument.
* The early Christian fathers such as Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria, and Origen were acquainted with Josephus' works they would have quoted this passage had it existed. Chrysostom often referred to Josephus and it's highly unlikely he would have omitted the paragraph had it been extant. Photius did not quote the text though he had three articles concerning Josephus and even expressly stated that Josephus, being a Jew, had not taken the least notice of Christ.
* Neither Justin in his dialogue with Trypho, the Jew, nor Origen against Celsus ever mentioned this passage. Neither Tertullian nor Cyprian ever quoted Josephus as a witness in their controversies with Jews and pagans and Origen expressly stated that Josephus, who had mentioned John the Baptist, did not recognize Jesus as the messiah (Contra Celsum, I, 47). In Origen's own words, Contra Celsus, BOOK I., Chap XLVII :
<blockquote>
I would like to say to Celsus, who represents the Jew as accepting somehow John as a Baptist, who baptized Jesus, that the existence of John the Baptist, baptizing for the remission of sins, is related by one who lived no great length of time after John and Jesus. For in the 18th book of his Antiquities of the Jews, Josephus bears witness to John as having been a Baptist, and as promising purification to those who underwent the rite. Now this writer, although not believing in Jesus as the Christ, in seeking after the cause of the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple, whereas he ought to have said that the conspiracy against Jesus was the cause of these calamities befalling the people[...]
</blockquote>
* The passage also interrupts the narrative. Immediately before it Josephus tells of a rising of the Jews due to bitter feeling at the conduct of Pilate, and its bloody suppression by the ruling power. The words immediately following the passage are: "Also about this time another misfortune befell the Jews" and we are told of the expulsion of the Jews from Rome by Tiberius on account of the conduct of some of their compatriots. What is the connection between the reference to Jesus and these two narratives? That there must be some connection if Josephus wrote the passage about Jesus goes without saying in view of the character of the writer. Josephus was always careful to have a logical connection between his statements and from a rational standpoint there is no occasion whatever to put the passage about Jesus in the connection in which we find it.
* It's so obvious, even the Catholic Encyclopedia states it as a forgery!

Here's actually not one but two references in Josephus. The latter is lesser known and cites James the brother of Jesus:
<blockquote>
And now Caesar, upon hearing the death of Festus, sent Albinus into Judea, as procurator. But the king deprived Joseph of the high priesthood, and bestowed the succession to that dignity on the son of Ananus, who was also himself called Ananus. Now the report goes that this eldest Ananus proved a most fortunate man; for he had five sons who had all performed the office of a high priest to God, and who had himself enjoyed that dignity a long time formerly, which had never happened to any other of our high priests. But this younger Ananus, who, as we have told you already, took the high priesthood, was a bold man in his temper, and very insolent; he was also of the sect of the Sadducees, who are very rigid in judging offenders, above all the rest of the Jews, as we have already observed; when, therefore, Ananus was of this disposition, he thought he had now a proper opportunity. Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and '''brought before them ''the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ'', whose name was James, and some others'''; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done; they also sent to the king, desiring him to send to Ananus that he should act so no more, for that what he had already done was not to be justified; nay, some of them went also to meet Albinus, as he was upon his journey from [[Alexandria]], and informed him that it was not lawful for Ananus to assemble a sanhedrin without his consent. Whereupon Albinus complied with what they said, and wrote in anger to Ananus, and threatened that he would bring him to punishment for what he had done; on which king Agrippa took the high priesthood from him, when he had ruled but three months, '''and made Jesus, the son of Damneus, high priest'''.[http://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/world/readfile?fk_files=2359&pageno=648 Online Reader - Project Gutenberg]
</blockquote>
Though there are good reasons to think this too is not Josephus' original text:
# Josephus was writing for a Roman audience. A Roman audience would not have been familiar with Jewish beliefs concerning the Messiah. Indeed, they probably wouldn't even have known what the word "Christ" meant. To throw such a description in without any explanation would have confused the readers. In fact this and the Testimonium Flavium are the ''only'' places in all of Josephus works where he uses the term "Christ".
# Why would Josephus mention Jesus before the person that the passage is actually about? On the other hand, if this were a Christian interpolation it would make sense to have Jesus' name be in the place of status.
# The original Greek wording of the passage itself is extremely similar to Matthew 1:16. For an Orthodox Jew this would be extremely unlikely.
# After reading the rest of the text of this passage we find that the Jews were so angry about the stoning of James that they they demanded that King Agrippa fire Ananus. Why would the Jews be angered over the killing of a Christian, since Christians were seen as heathens by the Jews?
# The end of the paragraph seems to identify the Jesus described within as Jesus the son of Damneus, and clearly states that this Jesus was made high priest by Agrippa.

The "him called Christ" makes most sense as a margin note by a later scribe copying the text, inserted by error in a paragraph about Jesus son of Damneus.

With respect to the "James, the brother of Jesus, the Christ" in Antiquities...

'''James as a Forgery'''
* Remember there are good reasons to suspect the passage by Josephus is another Christian interpolation...it also appeared only in Eusebius' work. Keep in mind, this is the same Eusebius who forged the works as stated above, as he was writing he had more then ample time to edit in this little bit.
* The only usually undisputed allusion to Jesus in Josephus is actually only a passing reference in the context of the trial of James. James is identified, not as James son of (whoever) as one would normally expect but as brother of Jesus. While this passage is more likely to be authentic than the one above, it is not without problems. Origen knows and cites this passage, and is unaware of the Testimonium Flavianum above, providing some evidence for its presence in the Antiquities before its Christian reworking. On the other hand, Origen's version contains the unlikely addition in which Josephus also says that it is as punishment for the execution of James that Jerusalem and the temple are destroyed. The possibility suggests itself that even Origen's Josephus has undergone Christian reworking, simply of a different variety, in which, perhaps, the insulting Testimonium has been expunged, and James has been introduced as a pious Jewish hero."

'''Who Was James?'''
* James (the one mentioned by Paul as the bishop of Jerusalem) NEVER acknowledged Jesus as his "brother". Jesus NEVER acknowledged James as his "brother". The Gospel of Thomas, one of the gospels rejected by the framers of the Bible, tells us Jesus did not recognize James as his brother.
* After the death of Jesus, when the Apostles scattered over the world, James the Lesser (St. James the Lesser/Just) remained behind as Bishop of Jerusalem. History supposedly has two accounts of the death of James the Lesser. According to Josephus, St. James was stoned to death in 62 A.D, but Hegesippus, a second century ecclesiastical historian, claims that James was thrown from the pinnacle of the Temple in Jerusalem by the Pharisees and clubbed to death when the fall didn't kill him and the time markers in the account put this at c. 70. (So just how and more importantly ''when'' was he killed? Who do you believe?)
* The question is who was James? This is not a cut and dried issue among Christians. Was he a half-brother of Jesus? A cousin?, A "brother in spirit?" Jesus never claimed James as his "brother" nor did James ever claim to be Jesus's brother. So who the hell was "James," Christians don't agree!

'''Which James?'''
* There is a dirty little secret that Christians doesn't bother to tell you is that there are various theories about James and the brothers of Jesus, who they were , who their mother was , who their father was , what relation might they have had to the Twelve, and what sense one can make of the multiple persons named "James" in the N.T. In other words, some Christians have hinged their"proof" on a person whose identity and parentage are much disputed! You might say that the Bible's cup "runneth over with Jameses"(60 of them!)
* One point that is ignored by Christians today is that as late as the early part of the 20th century that a c. 170 CE work by Hegesippus was often used as reference for the death of James the Just until it was realized that it put his death c. 70 while Josephus account put it at c. 64.
* What Christians have neglected to tell us is that there are many different theories exist pertaining to the brother of Jesus. Let's ignore the minor theories and go for the two major theories that dominate the Christian culture........
:* The Eastern Theory vs The Western Theory
:* The eastern view maintains that Mary was a virgin not only at the time of the birth of Jesus, but remained so throughout her entire life. The bottom-line is that Joseph had the 4 alleged brothers with another woman prior to Mary and brought them to the marriage.
:* The western view is stricter because it claims that BOTH Mary and Joseph remained virgins throughout their entire lives. "These brothers are merely cousins that seem to come onto the scene."
* Of course Jesus may also have had half-brothers and half-sisters via Mary and Joseph, the most common assumption among Protestants. The point is that the Bible is NOT clear about the parentage of any siblings.

'''Naming the Jameses'''
* Let's keep it simple and concentrate on just 4 of these "Jameses" and use their "common" names to keep them straight. If you explore the literature you will come across the appellations for James:
# James the Great
# James the Lesser (Little)
# Jame the Just
# James, son of Alphaeus
* Now the plethora of James is just one problem (I've only listed a minimum ) The second one is that the Catholic Church and many Protestant sects don't agree on just "who" the "Jameses" are! Now if you really want to know just how contentious the "James" situation is go here and read more scenarios of how Jesus came by a half-brother (a true blood-brother because Mary is hypothesized to have been married to or inpregnated out of wedlock by a number of different candidates for the father of "James"):
* Essays on James the Brother of Jesus
* The real truth is that James, the alleged brother of Jesus is a shadowy figure of unknown and highly disputed pedigree (is he a cousin/brother, a step-brother, a true half-brother?). Realize what MacDowell et al have done is attached the historicality of another shadowy, disputed figure (Jesus) to that of an individual whose existence is not certain. He then uses a DISPUTED passage from Josephus as an extra-biblical source to claim that this James (a cousin/brother? or a step-brother, or is he a half-brother?) and Jesus are both true historical figures.

====[[Tacitus]]====
Tacitus (A.D. c.55-A.D. c.117, Roman historian) mentions "christus." The mistake in the use of the title of "procurator" for Pontius Pilatus rather than his actual title of prefect convince many Jesus Myth theory supporters that the passage it at best Tacitus repeating what the Christians claimed.
# It is extremely improbable that a special report found by Tacitus had been sent earlier to Rome and incorporated into the records of the Senate, in regard to the death of a Jewish provincial, Jesus. The execution of a Nazareth carpenter would have been one of the most insignificant events conceivable among the movements of Roman history in those decades; it would have completely disappeared beneath the innumerable executions inflicted by Roman provincial authorities. For it to have been kept in any report would have been a most remarkable instance of chance.
# The phrase "multitudo ingens" which means "a great number" is opposed to all that we know of the spread of the new faith in Rome at the time. A vast multitude in 64 [[CE]].? There were not more than a few thousand Christians 200 years later. The idea of so many just 30 years after his supposed death is just a falsehood.
# The use of the Christians as "living torches," as Tacitus describes, and all the other atrocities that were committed against them, have little title to credence, and suggest an imagination exalted by reading stories of the later Christian martyrs. Death by fire was not a punishment inflicted at Rome in the time of Nero. It is opposed to the moderate principles on which the accused were then dealt with by the State.
# The Roman authorities can have had no reason to inflict special punishment on the new faith. How could the non-initiated Romans know what were the concerns of a comparatively small religious sect, which was connected with Judaism and must have seemed to the impartial observer wholly identical with it.
# Suetonius says that Nero showed the utmost indifference, even contempt in regard to religious sects. Even afterwards the Christians were not persecuted for their faith, but for political reasons, for their contempt of the Roman state and emperor, and as disturbers of the unity and peace of the empire. What reason can Nero have had to proceed against the Christians, hardly distinguishable from the Jews, as a new and criminal sect?
# It is inconceivable that the followers of Jesus formed a community in the city at that time of sufficient importance to attract public attention and the ill-feeling of the people. It isn't the most popular way to convert and bring people into their religion.
# The victims could not have been given to the flames in the gardens of Nero, as Tacitus allegedly said. According to another account by Tacitus these gardens were the refuge of those whose homes had been burned and were full of tents and wooden sheds. Why would he risk burning these by lighting human fires amidst all these shelters?
# According to Tacitus, Nero was in Antium, not Rome, when the fire occurred.
# The blood-curdling story about the frightful orgies of Nero reads like some Christian romance of the Dark Ages and not like Tacitus. Suetonius, while mercilessly condemning the reign of Nero, says that in his public entertainments Nero took particular care that no lives should be sacrificed, "not even those of condemned criminals."
# It is highly unlikely that he mingled with the crowd and feasted his eyes on the ghastly spectacle. Tacitus tells us in his life of Agricola that Nero had crimes committed, but kept his own eyes off them.
# Some authorities allege that the passage in Tacitus could not have been interpolated because his style of writing could not have been copied. But this argument is without merit since there is no "inimitable" style for the clever forger, and the more unususal, distinctive, and peculiar a style is, like that of Tacitus, the easier it is to imitate. Moreover, as far as the historicity of Jesus is concerned we are, perhaps, interested only in one sentence of the passage and that has nothing distinctively Tacitan about it.
# Tacitus is assumed to have written this about 117 A.D., about 80 years after the death of Jesus, when Christianity was already an organized religion with a settled tradition. The gospels, or at least 3 of them, are supposed to have been in existence. Hence Tacitus might have derived his information about Jesus, if not directly from the gospels, indirectly from them by means of oral tradition. This is the view of Dupuis, who wrote: "Tacitus says what the legend said." In 117 A.D. Tacitus could only know about Christ by what reached him from Christian or intermediate circles. He merely reproduced rumors.
# In no other part of his writings did Tacitus make the least allusion to "Christ" or "Christians." Christus was a very common name, as was Jesus. In fact Jospehus lists about 20 in the time Jesus was supposedly said to have existed.
# Tacitus is also made to say that the Christians took their denomination from Christ which could apply to any of the so-called Christs who were put to death in Judea, including Christ Jesus.
# The expression "Christians" which Tacitus applies to the followers of Jesus, was by no means common in the time of Nero. Not a single Greek or Roman writer of the first century mentions the name. The Christians who called themselves Jessaeans, Nazoraeans, the Elect, the Saints, the Faithful, etc. were universally regarded as Jews. They observed the Mosaic law and the people could not distinguish them from the other Jews. The Greek word Christus (the anointed) for Messiah, and the derivative word, Christian, first came into use under Trajan in the time of Tacitus. Even then, however, the word Christus could not mean Jesus of Nazareth. All the Jews without exception looked forward to a Christus or Messiah. It is, therefore, not clear how the fact of being a "Christian" could, in the time of Nero or of Tacitus, distinguish the followers of Jesus from other believers in a Christus or Messiah. Not one of the gospels applies the name Christians to the followers of Jesus. It is never used in the New Testament as a description of themselves by the believers in Jesus.
# Most scholars admit that the works of Tacitus have not been preserved with any degree of fidelity.
# This passage which could have served Christian writers better than any other writing of Tacitus, is not quoted by any of the Christian Fathers. It is not quoted by Tertullian, though he often quoted the works of Tacitus. Tertullian's arguments called for the use of this passage with so loud a voice that his omission of it, if it had really existed, amounted to a violent improbability.
# Eusebius in the 4th century cited all the evidence of Christianity obtained from Jewish and pagan sources but makes no mention of Tacitus.
# This passage is not quoted by Clement of Alexandria who at the beginning of the 3rd century set himself entirely to the work of adducing and bringing together all the admissions and recognitions which pagan authors had made of the existence of Christ Jesus or Christians before his time.
# Origen in his controversy with Celsus would undoubtedly have used it had it existed.
# There is no vestige or trace of this passage anywhere in the world before the 15th century. Its use as part of the evidences of the Christian religion is absolutely modern. Although no reference whatever is made to it by any writer or historian, monkish or otherwise, before the 15th century (1468 A.D.), after that time it is quoted or referred to in an endless list of works including by your supposed historian.
# The fidelity of the passage rests entirely upon the fidelity of one individual (first published in a copy of the annals of Tacitus in the year 1468 by Johannes de Spire of Venice who took his imprint of it from a single manuscript) who would have every opportunity and inducement to insert such an interpolation.
# In all the Roman records there was to be found no evidence that Christ was put to death by Pontius Pilate. If genuine, such a sentence would be the most important evidence in pagan literature. How could it have been overlooked for 1360 years?
# Richard Carrier explains that we are actually missing three years in Tacitus, "We are enormously lucky to have Tacitus--only two unrelated Christian monasteries had any interest in preserving his Annals, for example, and neither of them preserved the whole thing, but each less than half of it, nd by shear luck alone, they each preserved a different half. And yet we still have large gaps in it. One of those gaps is the removal of the years 29, 30, and 31 (precisely, the latter part of 29, all of 30, and the earlier part of 31), which is probably the deliberate excision of Christian scribes who were embarrassed by the lack of any mention of Jesus or Gospel events in those years (the years Jesus' ministry, death, and resurrection were widely believed at the time to have occurred). There is otherwise no known explanation for why those three years were removed. The other large gap is the material between the two halves that neither institution preserved. And yet another is the end of the second half, which scribes also chose not to preserve (or lost through negligent care of the manuscript, etc.)."
# Suetonius doesn't mention this event in his histories.
# And lastly, the style of the passage is not consistent with the usually mild and classic language of Tacitus

====Suetonius====
''As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he [Claudius] expelled them from Rome''

The use of Suetonius' "Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [Emperor Claudius in 49 CE] expelled them from Rome." as evidence for Jesus smacks of desperation time. Elsewhere in the same work (''The Lives of the Caesars'') Suetonius talks about how "Punishment was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men given to a new and mischievous superstition." under Nero demonstrating that Suetonius knew the difference between Jews and Christians.
# Suetonius wrote in the year 115 CE, so this is FAR from a contemporary account. He doesn't cite or list sources and Christianity would have been decently established by this time.
# Surely no one will contend that Christ was inciting riots at Rome 15 years after he was supposedly crucified at Jerusalem. And why would Jews be led by Jesus to begin with? But by citing this you are assuming this is the case.
# This passage contains no evidence for the historicity of Jesus, even if we substitute "Christus" for "Chrestus." Christus is merely the Greek-Latin translation of "anointed" and the phrase "at the instigation of Christus" could refer to a group of people just as much as it could have meant one person. This is reminiscent of the name Theophilus mentioned in the beginning of Acts and Luke, (whom the narrator/author of the books are addressing the prose too) which simply means "lover/friend of God." Which can apply to many people instead of one singular person (maybe even a congregation of people).
# "Chrestus" was not only a familiar personal name, it was also a name of the Egyptian Serapis or Osiris, who had a large following at Rome, especially among the common people. Hence "Christians" may be either the followers of a man named Chrestus, or of Serapis. Historians know what evil repute the Egyptian people, which consisted mainly of Alexandrian elements, had at Rome. While other foreign cults that had been introduced into Rome enjoyed the utmost toleration, the cult of Serapis and Isis was exposed repeatedly to persecution. The lax morality associated with their worship of the Egyptian gods and the fanaticism of their worshippers repelled the Romans, and excited the suspicion that their cults might be directed against the State.
# Vopiscus said, "Those who worship Serapis and the Chrestians,.... They are a turbulent, inflated, lawless body of men." Is it not possible that the reference to Chrestus and the Chrestians has been too hastily applied to Christos and Christians? The "Chrestians," who were detested by the people for their crimes,..., are not Christians at all, but followers of Chrestus, the scum of Egypt, the apaches of Rome, a people on whom Nero could very easily cast the suspicion of having set fire to Rome.
# The name in the text is not "Christus" but "Chrestus," which by no means is the usual designation of Jesus. It was a common name, especially among Roman freedman. (Cicero, Epistulae ad Familiares, book 2, letter 8, section 1; "What! Do you suppose that I meant you to send me an account of gladiatorial matches, of postponements of trials, of robberies by Chrestus, and such things as, when I am at Rome, nobody ventures to retail to me?&quotEye-wink Hence, the whole passage may have nothing whatever to do with Christianity.

====Pliny the Younger====
''Others named by the informer declared that they were Christians, but then denied it, asserting that they had been but had ceased to be, some three years before, others many years, some as much as twenty-five years. They all worshiped your image and the statues of the gods, and cursed Christ.''

Pliny the Younger only mentions the existence of the Christian sect and gives no name to the "Christ" or details about him.
# It proves nothing in regard to the existence of Jesus, but only affirms the existence of Christians.
# If the passage is referring to Christians, then it is also saying Christians sold the flesh of their sacrificial victims.
# Roman laws accorded religious liberty to all. Before Constantine there was not a single law opposed to freedom of thought.
# Trajan was one of the most tolerant of Roman emperors.
# Pliny is universally conceded to have been one of the most humane of men. That Pliny would have tortured two women is highly unlikely. The person and character of women in Pagan Rome were held in high esteem.
# The letter implies Bithynia had a large Christian population which is improbable at that early date.
# The passage implies Trajan was not acquainted with Christian beliefs and customs even though Christians were quite prominent in his capital.
# Cool For Christians to be found in so remote a province as Bithynia before acquiring notoriety in Rome is unlikely.
# Pliny says they sing a hymn to Christ as to God which Christians in Pliny's time would consider blasphemous since Jesus was no more than a man to them. His divinity was not established until 325 A.D.
# This letter is found in only one ancient copy of Pliny.
# The German literati, the most learned, say the epistle is not genuine.
# The genuineness of this correspondence of Pliny and Trajan is by no means certain. The tendency of the letters to put the Christians in as favorable a light as possible is too obvious not to excite some suspicion. For these and other reasons the correspondence was declared by experts to be spurious even at the time of its first publication in the 16th century.
# The undeniable fact is that some of the first Christians were among the greatest forgers who ever lived.[http://www.apollonius.net/forgery.pdf] This letter was first quoted by Tertullian and the age immediately preceding him was known for fraudulent writings. Tertullian and Eusebius, the people infavor of the passage's genuineness, were by no means the most reliablesources

====Thallus====
Thallus is the worse of the lot as it is in reality. We don't have Thallus' writings, only comments from Julius Africanus in the 3rd Century CE. The earliest manuscript of Africanus' work was done by George Syncellus in the 9th Century CE. Also Julius goes on to criticise him for saying this because a solar eclipse is impossible during a full moon. Even Bede (a Christian apologist) notes this is impossible because an eclipse can't take place during a full moon. For more on the dynamics of solar eclipses go [https://www.mreclipse.com/special/seprimer.html here]. However there was an eclipse in November of 29 CE, which may have been the one that Thallus referred to. Note the date of the only recorded solar eclipse occurred 4 years PRIOR to the date Christians give for the death of Jesus. Both F.Jacoby and R.T.France note that this does NOT in any way prove Thallus mentioned Jesus at all - it seems that it was Julius, nearly 2 centuries after Thallus alleged wrote about it, who made the connection. The supposed identification of Thallus depends entirely on a misreading of Josephus, which even the author F.F.Bruce admits is "doubtful. Dr. R.T.Frances (a conservative Christian) also rejects this dating of Thallus. Finally, Josephus mentions .. "allos Samareus genos" which has to be amended to read "Thallos" to support this identification. All Josephus mentions is that "Thallos" loaned money to Agrippa. This is very non-specific because even if Josephus had said "Thallos", there is no way to be sure that this is in fact the historian Thallus because during that time Thallos was a common name (the "which Thallus? problem")

====Lucian====
Lucian, 175 CE, refers to "the man who was crucified in Palestine because he introduced this new cult into the world." Regardless of the fact that this is NOT an eyewitness account but written 120 years after the supposed death of Jesus, nowhere in any of his writings does Lucian mention the man's name, or the cult he brought into the world. Using Lucian as an argument for the historicity of Jesus is special pleading on the Christian's part, that is we are too '''assume''' Lucian is talking about Jesus. Except that '''thousands''' of people were crucified in Palestine, and many of these men were known to start new religions, especially around the time of Lucian. Palestine covers an area roughly hundreds of miles from north to south and east to west, it spreads from north of Damascus to the far south, past Masada and the Dead Sea. The ONLY thing this proves is that a man was killed because he started a cult.

====Other sources====
Christian apologists mostly use the above sources for their "evidence" of Jesus because they believe they represent the best outside sources. All other sources (Christian and non-Christian) come from even less reliable sources, some of which include: Ignatius (50 - 98? C.E.), Polycarp (69 - 155 C.E.), Clement of Rome (? - circa 160 C.E.), Justin Martyr (100 - 165 C.E.), Tertullian (197 C.E.), Clement of Alexandria (? - 215 C.E.), Origen (185 - 232 C.E.), Hippolytus (? - 236 C.E.), and Cyprian (? - 254 C.E.). All of these provide merely hearsay.

==Other Arguments for Historicity==

===Many early Christians died for their beliefs, and they wouldn't die for a lie.===
* Their willingness to die shows that they believed firmly in their religious ideal, not that they believed Jesus was a real person. The religious ideal could easily have been considered a worthy cause, whether or not its founder was invented.
* This claim can be rebutted in a single word, "Jonestown".
*If they did in fact die specifically for holding to the claim that Jesus was real (which has in no way been demonstrated), that only indicates that they believed it, not that they were correct.
*Many people from different faiths have died for their beliefs. Christianity is not special in this respect.

Above we see an early reference to Christians by Pliny:
''Others named by the informer declared that they were Christians, but then denied it, asserting that they had been but had ceased to be, some three years before, others many years, some as much as twenty-five years. They all worshiped your image and the statues of the gods, and cursed Christ.''

When threatened the group of Christians quickly recanted and insisted they first said they were Christians in error, they stopped being Christians long ago and all hail the emperor and to hell with Christ! -- Apparently when push came to shove, the evidence is they recanted and rejected Christ. Strenuously refusing to die for their belief.

===The story of Jesus resembles other myths===
* Those stories are invented by the devil.
* A lot of parallels are stretches. For example, [[Horus]] is said to be born of a virgin, when he was born (in one telling of the story) of Hathor and the reassembled body of Osiris.
* Joseph Campbell's ''[[Hero With a Thousand Faces]]'' showed a general outline for myths, even without the myths being inter-related. A notable amount of the argument for mythicism is that the early Christians stole the God ideas from other groups rather than invent them outright. This is not necessarily the case.

===The burden is on those who argue there is a historical Jesus===
* It is generally accepted that there is a historical Jesus, but this is an argument of [[ad populum]]. What really matters is what the evidence says.

===Archaeological evidence?===
Although the New Testament mentions various cities, geological sites, kings and people that existed or lived during the alleged life of Jesus, these descriptions cannot serve as evidence for the existence of Jesus any more than works of fiction that include recognizable locations, and which make mention of actual people. Spider-Man was well known in [[New York City]], but we all know he is just a work of fiction.

Homer's ''Odyssey'', for example, describes the travels of Odysseus throughout the Greek Islands. The epic describes, in detail, many locations that existed in history. But should we take Odysseus, the Greek gods and goddesses, one-eyed giants and monsters as literal fact simply because the story depicts geographic locations accurately? Of course not. Mythical stories, fictions, and narratives almost always use familiar landmarks as placements for their stories. The authors of the Greek tragedies not only put their stories in plausible settings as happening in the real world, but also gave their supernatural characters the desires, flaws and failures of mortal human beings. Consider that fictions such as King Kong, Superman, and Star Trek include recognizable cities, planets, and landmarks, with their protagonists and antagonists miming human emotions.

Before the 1970s one could have been forgiven for thinking that archeology is the greatest tool for supporting the Bible. These days, however, Scholars are questioning the whole model of "biblical archaeology," which starts with the assumption that the Bible is a reliable guide for field research. Indeed, there is now so much contrary evidence '''against''' the historical accuracy of the Bible that the term "biblical archaeology" has been discarded by professional archaeologists, and ''Syro-Palestinian'' archaeology has been suggested by some practicing in the field as a more appropriate term.

====Nazareth====
There is not a shred of evidence for a city named Nazareth at the time of the alleged Jesus, [Leedom; Gauvin].[http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/nazareth.html] [http://www.nazarethmyth.info/scandalfour] One single house apparently was found [http://blog.bibleplaces.com/2009/12/first-century-house-excavated-in.html], however examples like these are fallacious, since no one knows where Nazareth was, but it was big enough to be a city that had a synagogue. No ancient historian or geographer mentions Nazareth. Nazareth is first noted at the beginning of the 4th century. Luke 28-30 tells that Nazareth was on a hill and that the hill had a cliff high enough that a man falling off it would be killed. The recently occupied town now called Nazareth, however, has never occupied the top of a hill.[http://www.atheists.org/Where_Jesus_Never_Walked]

Nazareth does not appear in the Old Testament. The Book of Joshua (19.10,16) – in what it claims is the process of settlement by the tribe of Zebulon in the area – records twelve towns and six villages and yet omits any 'Nazareth' from its list. Nazareth does not appear in the volumes of Josephus's writings (even though he provides a detailed list of the cities of Galilee). The Talmud, although it names 63 Galilean towns, knows nothing of Nazareth, nor does early rabbinic literature. Oddly, St Paul knows nothing of 'Nazareth'. Rabbi Solly's epistles (real and fake) mention Jesus 221 times, Nazareth not at all. None of the New Testament epistle writers ever mentions Nazareth or a Jesus of Nazareth even though most of the epistles got written before the gospels. In fact no one mentions Nazareth until the Gospels, where the first one didn't come into existence until about 40 years after the hypothetical death of Jesus. Apologists attempt to dismiss this by claiming that Nazareth existed as an insignificant and easily missed village (how would they know?), thus no one recorded it. However, whenever the Gospels speak of Nazareth, they always refer to it as a city, never a village (Luke1.26,27; Luke 2.3,4; Matthew 2.22,23; Luke 2.39,40), and a historian of that period would surely have noticed a city. (Note the New Testament uses the terms village, town, and city.) Nor can apologists fall on archeological evidence of preexisting artifacts for the simple reason that many cities get built on ancient sites. If a city named Nazareth existed during the 1st century, then we need at least one contemporary piece of evidence for the name, otherwise we cannot refer to it as historical.

Itinerarium Burdigalense – the Itinerary of the Anonymous Pilgrim of Bordeaux – is the earliest description left by a pious tourist. It is dated to 333 AD. The itinerary is a Roman-style list of towns and distances with the occasional comment. As the pilgrim passes Jezreel (Stradela) he mentions King Ahab and Goliath. At Aser (Teyasir) he mentions Job. At Neopolis his reference is to Mount Gerizim, Abraham, Joseph, and Jacob's well at Sichar (where JC 'asked water of a Samaritan woman'). He passes the village of Bethel (Beitin) and mentions Jacob's wrestling match with God, and Jeroboam. He moves on to Jerusalem. Our pilgrim – preoccupied with Old rather than New Testament stories – makes no single reference to 'Nazareth.'

[[James Randi]] made a video clip "[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSzQC1zKesU Questioning the Bible]" in 2009 critically examining many things, including the existence of Nazareth. He concluded that Nazareth is a fictional site that did not exist at the time of Jesus. The current city of Nazareth is nothing more than a tourist marketing site that is being maintained by [[pseudoarcheology]].

====Where is the Tomb?====
We don't know if Jesus was buried by Joseph of Arimathea. What we have are Gospel stories written decades later by people who had heard stories in circulation.

There have been reports claiming Jesus was not buried in ancient Judea, but rather in countries far away. Jesus has been reported to be buried in Srinagar, western Kashmir. Another report claims Jesus is buried in Shingo, northern Honshu, Japan.[http://www.thiaoouba.com/tomb.htm]

==Criticisms==
* Mythicism is a fringe position. Counter arguments to mythicists like this rarely go beyond [[ad hominem]] attacks. Mythicists use the same historical method used to establish the historicity of other historical figures, such as the following,
:*Alexander the Great: Unlike Jesus, we actually do have historical evidence for Alexander the Great. We have treaties, and even a letter from Alexander to the people of Chios engraved in stone (332 B.C.E). Alexander left a mass of destroyed and created cities behind. We have buildings, libraries and cities, such as Alexandria, left in his name.

:*Julius Caesar: We have portraits and artifacts of Caesar, contemporary witnesses, even letters written by his own hand. We have a number of inscriptions and coins produced contributed to Caesar. Contemporary and reliable historians (Suetonius, Appian, Cassius Dio, Plutarch) all mention and describe the life and actions of Caesar. They often quote and name many different sources (both friendly and hostile to Caesar), showing a wide reading of the witnesses and documents. We have letters from his enemies, including Cicero, that mention Caesar. [http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/exist.html] Also, the history of Rome could not have proceeded as it did had Caesar not physically moved an army into Italy.

:*Augustus: For Augustus Caesar, we have the ''Res gestae divi augusti'', the emperor's own account of his works and deeds, a letter to his son (Epistula ad Gaium filium), Virgil's eyewitness accounts, and much more.

:*Napoleon: Napoleon left behind artifacts, eyewitness accounts and letters. We have contemporary eye-witnesses, journals, even a portraits of Napoleon.

==Counter-apologetics==
* In the weak form — "we shouldn't believe in a historical Jesus or actively disbelieve the proposition" — it is hard to argue that a character should be accepted as due to the lack of good evidence of historicity. Keeping this in mind, it becomes progressively harder to accept a divine one if there doesn't exist the grounds for a historical one.
* Even experts have to give evidence for their beliefs, their opinions are based more on assumption and tradition than a thorough survey of the evidence.
* Nonetheless, there are still scholars that are mythicists such as theologians Robert M. Price, Thomas L. Thompson, and Tom Harpur, as well as historians Bruno Bauer, Edwin Johnson, and Bertrand Russell.
* Jesus's biography fits [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FitzRoy_Somerset,_4th_Baron_Raglan Lord Raglan]'s hero pattern remarkably well, with [http://department.monm.edu/classics/courses/clas230/mythdocuments/heropattern/default.htm this source] giving him a score of 18 out of 22, and [http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa4.htm this one] giving him 20. This makes him comparable with several legendary heroes, like Romulus and King Arthur (both 19). Well-documented heroes typically score much lower; Lord Raglan could not find anyone with a score greater than 6 or 7 (''The Hero'', pp. 184-85).

==External links==
*[http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Jesus_myth_theory Jesus myth theory] RationalWiki Article

[[Category:Jesus]]

Mythicism

2013-03-10T12:34:20Z

Tatarize: /* Many early Christians died for their beliefs, and they wouldn't die for a lie. */

'''Mythicism''' is the general position that [[Jesus]] was not a historical person but a [[legend]], and that the [[gospel]]s were therefore written as works of fiction. [[Wikipedia:William Tell|William Tell]], [[Wikipedia:Paul Bunyan|Paul Bunyan]], [[Wikipedia:Robin Hood|Robin Hood]] and [[Wikipedia:King Arthur|King Arthur]] are generally considered non-historical, and mythicists argue that Jesus should be added to this list. The reasons for mythicism are typically [[arguments from silence]] and parallels to other known myths.

==Argument==
* There is no contemporary evidence that Jesus existed.
* The story of Jesus resembles the stories of other generally fictional characters.
* The onus is on those individuals who claim there was a historical Jesus to back up this positive claim.
** One should not believe in a historical Jesus.

==The Gospels==
Deep investigation into the gospels casts doubt on their reliability and authenticity. The truth is we have no idea who wrote the gospels, but we can learn about their authors by examining how these texts were constructed. We find that the gospels were written by Greek-speaking, educated, rhetorically-trained writers who were skilled in Greek composition (but who never called themselves disciples) - they were not written by uneducated, illiterate, lower-class, Aramaic-speaking, disciple peasants who never went to school and who possessed no knowledge of literature.

How, then, did the story reach the actual educated authors? Not from the disciples, but from people who heard the stories, who heard about the stories, etc. They were telling stories to convert people and they improved and changed the stories to fit their audiences. By the time the stories reached these authors, they had already been cast and recast through oral traditions for several decades, all of which shines serious doubt on the validity of their claims.

Many believers maintain that the gospels provide sufficient evidence for Jesus since they are supposed to have been written by eye-witnesses during his life. The problem with this is that none of the gospel writers met Jesus and they were written many decades after Jesus supposedly died. The earliest gospel (Mark) was probably written forty to forty-five years after Jesus died. None of the gospels' authors claim to be eye-witnesses and each gospel is written in the third-person. We have no idea who wrote the gospels or where they were written; we do not know who read them prior to the second century or if they investigated their claims in any useful way; but it is clear none of them ever met Jesus. To further support the fact that the gospel writers were not eye-witnesses, we can identify large discrepancies and contradictions amongst them. Many of the gospels do not agree on what Jesus did or said, with Mark in particular having problems.

There are indications that Mark may not have been a local living in Palestine, and his Gospel may have been written as a fiction.[http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_myth_history.htm#2] The authors Matthew and Luke got most of their information from Mark, often copying him verbatim. The gospels themselves are admittedly propagandist: “And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: but these are written that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have through his name.” (John 20:30-31) This hardly sounds like the work of objective historical reporting.

Many parts of the gospels were added after their first version, such as the end of Mark 16, and the story of Jesus saying "let he without sin cast the first stone." There is a whole [http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_bibl.htm list] of pieces that were later added in, and many of the books in the NT written by forgers [http://www.apollonius.net/forgery.pdf] (all this done by early Christians). Since the gospels have been deliberately meddled with, mistranslated many times, and changed over centuries of oral traditions, there is no sound basis for trusting them as reliable historical documents. What is more problematic is that the gospels contain many events that contradict the historical record.[http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_myth_history.htm#11]

===There is no contemporary evidence for Jesus===
====[[Paul the Apostle]] (Paul of Tarsus)====
Paul never claimed to have met Jesus in person - he claimed to have received instruction from the resurrected Jesus in a vision. His conversion happened after Jesus had already died. Paul even reveals to us that the earliest Christians were hallucinating on a regular basis, entering ecstatic trances, prophesying, relaying the communications of spirits, and speaking in tongues--so much, in fact, that outsiders thought they were lunatics (e.g., 1 Corinthians 14).

How convenient that Paul should have a vision and become the new church leader, subsequently introducing many rules of his own, given that up until that point he had been working to undermine the Christian movement. However, if there were such a Christian movement it does not appear anywhere in any historical account. In fact, the earliest records of Jesus start with Paul, who knew very little of Jesus' life, and many statements in the letters of Paul only make sense if Paul does not view Jesus Christ as a historical person. [http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_myth_history.htm#7]

====Christian [[apocrypha]]====
Stories about the stories do not qualify as historical evidence, any more than additional books about Superman prove the existence of Superman.

====[[Josephus]]====
There are good reasons to assume the relevant passages in Josephus are forgeries.

The Jewish historian Josephus Flavius was the earliest non-Christian to mention Jesus. Josephus' birth in 37 C.E., well after the alleged crucifixion of Jesus, means he could not have been an eyewitness account. Moreover, he wrote Antiquities in 93 C.E., even later than the first gospels. Many scholars think that Josephus' short accounts of Jesus (in Antiquities) came from interpolations perpetrated by a later Church father (most likely, Eusebius of Caesarea).

Antiquities of the Jews was written sometime after the year 90 C.E. It begins, “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth,” and arduously parallels the Old Testament up to the time when Josephus is able to add equally tedious historical recountings of Jewish life during the early Roman period. In Book 18, Chapter 3, this paragraph known as the [[Testimonium Flavian]] is encountered (Whiston’s translation):
<blockquote>
"At this time there was a wise man called Jesus, and his conduct was good, and he was known to be virtuous. Many people among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified, and to die. But those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive. Accordingly, he was perhaps the Messiah, concerning whom the prophets have reported wonders. And the tribe of the Christians, so named after him, has not disappeared to this day" (Antiquities 20:200)
</blockquote>
Many problems abound here. Firstly, this is the Arabic translation of the text. Many consider this a more accurate translation, it does not in anyway change the fact that it is an interpolation. I'm using it to show that even if we ignore that faulty greek translation which is not as accurately translated, this passage STILL does not appear until 300 years later when Eusebius, in the 4th century, cited all the "evidences" of Christianity obtained from Jewish and pagan sources. Eusebius, who admitted to forging multiple works, as well as lying for the sake of his beliefs, as Gibbon recounts: "I have repeated whatever may rebound to the glory, and suppressed all that could tend to the disgrace of our religion"

The text Gibbon speaks of is as follows:
<blockquote> "But even if the case were not such as our argument has now proved it to be, if a lawgiver, who is to be of ever so little use, could have ventured to tell any falsehood at all to the young for their good, is there any falsehood that he could have told more beneficial than this, and better able to make them all do everything that is just, not by compulsion but willingly? 'Truth, O Stranger, is a noble and an enduring thing; it seems, however, not easy to persuade men of it.' - d PLATO
</blockquote>
Now you may find in the Hebrew Scriptures also thousands of such passages concerning God as though He were jealous, or sleeping, or angry, or subject to any other human passions, which passages are adopted for the benefit of those who need this mode of instruction." (Chp. 31, Book 12 of Prae Paratio Evangelica).
* Which is also verified by Robert Ingersoll, "The great religious historian, Eusebius, ingenuously remarks that in his history he carefully omitted whatever tended to discredit the church, and that he piously magnified all that conduced to her glory." Ibid., Vol. 1, p. 293"
* Apparently Eusebius was the first to use this passage because it didn't exist during the 2nd and 3rd centuries. The passage is not found in the early copies of Josephus. Are we to assume it magically appeared there? Please. If it had been authentic you would have heard more about the passage during the centuries prior when the early chruch fathers were struggling to gather any pagan articles on such a person as Jesus. Instead their silence is deadly to this argument.
* The early Christian fathers such as Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria, and Origen were acquainted with Josephus' works they would have quoted this passage had it existed. Chrysostom often referred to Josephus and it's highly unlikely he would have omitted the paragraph had it been extant. Photius did not quote the text though he had three articles concerning Josephus and even expressly stated that Josephus, being a Jew, had not taken the least notice of Christ.
* Neither Justin in his dialogue with Trypho, the Jew, nor Origen against Celsus ever mentioned this passage. Neither Tertullian nor Cyprian ever quoted Josephus as a witness in their controversies with Jews and pagans and Origen expressly stated that Josephus, who had mentioned John the Baptist, did not recognize Jesus as the messiah (Contra Celsum, I, 47). In Origen's own words, Contra Celsus, BOOK I., Chap XLVII :
<blockquote>
I would like to say to Celsus, who represents the Jew as accepting somehow John as a Baptist, who baptized Jesus, that the existence of John the Baptist, baptizing for the remission of sins, is related by one who lived no great length of time after John and Jesus. For in the 18th book of his Antiquities of the Jews, Josephus bears witness to John as having been a Baptist, and as promising purification to those who underwent the rite. Now this writer, although not believing in Jesus as the Christ, in seeking after the cause of the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple, whereas he ought to have said that the conspiracy against Jesus was the cause of these calamities befalling the people[...]
</blockquote>
* The passage also interrupts the narrative. Immediately before it Josephus tells of a rising of the Jews due to bitter feeling at the conduct of Pilate, and its bloody suppression by the ruling power. The words immediately following the passage are: "Also about this time another misfortune befell the Jews" and we are told of the expulsion of the Jews from Rome by Tiberius on account of the conduct of some of their compatriots. What is the connection between the reference to Jesus and these two narratives? That there must be some connection if Josephus wrote the passage about Jesus goes without saying in view of the character of the writer. Josephus was always careful to have a logical connection between his statements and from a rational standpoint there is no occasion whatever to put the passage about Jesus in the connection in which we find it.
* It's so obvious, even the Catholic Encyclopedia states it as a forgery!

Here's actually not one but two references in Josephus. The latter is lesser known and cites James the brother of Jesus:
<blockquote>
And now Caesar, upon hearing the death of Festus, sent Albinus into Judea, as procurator. But the king deprived Joseph of the high priesthood, and bestowed the succession to that dignity on the son of Ananus, who was also himself called Ananus. Now the report goes that this eldest Ananus proved a most fortunate man; for he had five sons who had all performed the office of a high priest to God, and who had himself enjoyed that dignity a long time formerly, which had never happened to any other of our high priests. But this younger Ananus, who, as we have told you already, took the high priesthood, was a bold man in his temper, and very insolent; he was also of the sect of the Sadducees, who are very rigid in judging offenders, above all the rest of the Jews, as we have already observed; when, therefore, Ananus was of this disposition, he thought he had now a proper opportunity. Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and '''brought before them ''the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ'', whose name was James, and some others'''; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done; they also sent to the king, desiring him to send to Ananus that he should act so no more, for that what he had already done was not to be justified; nay, some of them went also to meet Albinus, as he was upon his journey from [[Alexandria]], and informed him that it was not lawful for Ananus to assemble a sanhedrin without his consent. Whereupon Albinus complied with what they said, and wrote in anger to Ananus, and threatened that he would bring him to punishment for what he had done; on which king Agrippa took the high priesthood from him, when he had ruled but three months, '''and made Jesus, the son of Damneus, high priest'''.[http://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/world/readfile?fk_files=2359&pageno=648 Online Reader - Project Gutenberg]
</blockquote>
Though there are good reasons to think this too is not Josephus' original text:
# Josephus was writing for a Roman audience. A Roman audience would not have been familiar with Jewish beliefs concerning the Messiah. Indeed, they probably wouldn't even have known what the word "Christ" meant. To throw such a description in without any explanation would have confused the readers. In fact this and the Testimonium Flavium are the ''only'' places in all of Josephus works where he uses the term "Christ".
# Why would Josephus mention Jesus before the person that the passage is actually about? On the other hand, if this were a Christian interpolation it would make sense to have Jesus' name be in the place of status.
# The original Greek wording of the passage itself is extremely similar to Matthew 1:16. For an Orthodox Jew this would be extremely unlikely.
# After reading the rest of the text of this passage we find that the Jews were so angry about the stoning of James that they they demanded that King Agrippa fire Ananus. Why would the Jews be angered over the killing of a Christian, since Christians were seen as heathens by the Jews?
# The end of the paragraph seems to identify the Jesus described within as Jesus the son of Damneus, and clearly states that this Jesus was made high priest by Agrippa.

The "him called Christ" makes most sense as a margin note by a later scribe copying the text, inserted by error in a paragraph about Jesus son of Damneus.

With respect to the "James, the brother of Jesus, the Christ" in Antiquities...

'''James as a Forgery'''
* Remember there are good reasons to suspect the passage by Josephus is another Christian interpolation...it also appeared only in Eusebius' work. Keep in mind, this is the same Eusebius who forged the works as stated above, as he was writing he had more then ample time to edit in this little bit.
* The only usually undisputed allusion to Jesus in Josephus is actually only a passing reference in the context of the trial of James. James is identified, not as James son of (whoever) as one would normally expect but as brother of Jesus. While this passage is more likely to be authentic than the one above, it is not without problems. Origen knows and cites this passage, and is unaware of the Testimonium Flavianum above, providing some evidence for its presence in the Antiquities before its Christian reworking. On the other hand, Origen's version contains the unlikely addition in which Josephus also says that it is as punishment for the execution of James that Jerusalem and the temple are destroyed. The possibility suggests itself that even Origen's Josephus has undergone Christian reworking, simply of a different variety, in which, perhaps, the insulting Testimonium has been expunged, and James has been introduced as a pious Jewish hero."

'''Who Was James?'''
* James (the one mentioned by Paul as the bishop of Jerusalem) NEVER acknowledged Jesus as his "brother". Jesus NEVER acknowledged James as his "brother". The Gospel of Thomas, one of the gospels rejected by the framers of the Bible, tells us Jesus did not recognize James as his brother.
* After the death of Jesus, when the Apostles scattered over the world, James the Lesser (St. James the Lesser/Just) remained behind as Bishop of Jerusalem. History supposedly has two accounts of the death of James the Lesser. According to Josephus, St. James was stoned to death in 62 A.D, but Hegesippus, a second century ecclesiastical historian, claims that James was thrown from the pinnacle of the Temple in Jerusalem by the Pharisees and clubbed to death when the fall didn't kill him and the time markers in the account put this at c. 70. (So just how and more importantly ''when'' was he killed? Who do you believe?)
* The question is who was James? This is not a cut and dried issue among Christians. Was he a half-brother of Jesus? A cousin?, A "brother in spirit?" Jesus never claimed James as his "brother" nor did James ever claim to be Jesus's brother. So who the hell was "James," Christians don't agree!

'''Which James?'''
* There is a dirty little secret that Christians doesn't bother to tell you is that there are various theories about James and the brothers of Jesus, who they were , who their mother was , who their father was , what relation might they have had to the Twelve, and what sense one can make of the multiple persons named "James" in the N.T. In other words, some Christians have hinged their"proof" on a person whose identity and parentage are much disputed! You might say that the Bible's cup "runneth over with Jameses"(60 of them!)
* One point that is ignored by Christians today is that as late as the early part of the 20th century that a c. 170 CE work by Hegesippus was often used as reference for the death of James the Just until it was realized that it put his death c. 70 while Josephus account put it at c. 64.
* What Christians have neglected to tell us is that there are many different theories exist pertaining to the brother of Jesus. Let's ignore the minor theories and go for the two major theories that dominate the Christian culture........
:* The Eastern Theory vs The Western Theory
:* The eastern view maintains that Mary was a virgin not only at the time of the birth of Jesus, but remained so throughout her entire life. The bottom-line is that Joseph had the 4 alleged brothers with another woman prior to Mary and brought them to the marriage.
:* The western view is stricter because it claims that BOTH Mary and Joseph remained virgins throughout their entire lives. "These brothers are merely cousins that seem to come onto the scene."
* Of course Jesus may also have had half-brothers and half-sisters via Mary and Joseph, the most common assumption among Protestants. The point is that the Bible is NOT clear about the parentage of any siblings.

'''Naming the Jameses'''
* Let's keep it simple and concentrate on just 4 of these "Jameses" and use their "common" names to keep them straight. If you explore the literature you will come across the appellations for James:
# James the Great
# James the Lesser (Little)
# Jame the Just
# James, son of Alphaeus
* Now the plethora of James is just one problem (I've only listed a minimum ) The second one is that the Catholic Church and many Protestant sects don't agree on just "who" the "Jameses" are! Now if you really want to know just how contentious the "James" situation is go here and read more scenarios of how Jesus came by a half-brother (a true blood-brother because Mary is hypothesized to have been married to or inpregnated out of wedlock by a number of different candidates for the father of "James"):
* Essays on James the Brother of Jesus
* The real truth is that James, the alleged brother of Jesus is a shadowy figure of unknown and highly disputed pedigree (is he a cousin/brother, a step-brother, a true half-brother?). Realize what MacDowell et al have done is attached the historicality of another shadowy, disputed figure (Jesus) to that of an individual whose existence is not certain. He then uses a DISPUTED passage from Josephus as an extra-biblical source to claim that this James (a cousin/brother? or a step-brother, or is he a half-brother?) and Jesus are both true historical figures.

====[[Tacitus]]====
Tacitus (A.D. c.55-A.D. c.117, Roman historian) mentions "christus." The mistake in the use of the title of "procurator" for Pontius Pilatus rather than his actual title of prefect convince many Jesus Myth theory supporters that the passage it at best Tacitus repeating what the Christians claimed.
# It is extremely improbable that a special report found by Tacitus had been sent earlier to Rome and incorporated into the records of the Senate, in regard to the death of a Jewish provincial, Jesus. The execution of a Nazareth carpenter would have been one of the most insignificant events conceivable among the movements of Roman history in those decades; it would have completely disappeared beneath the innumerable executions inflicted by Roman provincial authorities. For it to have been kept in any report would have been a most remarkable instance of chance.
# The phrase "multitudo ingens" which means "a great number" is opposed to all that we know of the spread of the new faith in Rome at the time. A vast multitude in 64 [[CE]].? There were not more than a few thousand Christians 200 years later. The idea of so many just 30 years after his supposed death is just a falsehood.
# The use of the Christians as "living torches," as Tacitus describes, and all the other atrocities that were committed against them, have little title to credence, and suggest an imagination exalted by reading stories of the later Christian martyrs. Death by fire was not a punishment inflicted at Rome in the time of Nero. It is opposed to the moderate principles on which the accused were then dealt with by the State.
# The Roman authorities can have had no reason to inflict special punishment on the new faith. How could the non-initiated Romans know what were the concerns of a comparatively small religious sect, which was connected with Judaism and must have seemed to the impartial observer wholly identical with it.
# Suetonius says that Nero showed the utmost indifference, even contempt in regard to religious sects. Even afterwards the Christians were not persecuted for their faith, but for political reasons, for their contempt of the Roman state and emperor, and as disturbers of the unity and peace of the empire. What reason can Nero have had to proceed against the Christians, hardly distinguishable from the Jews, as a new and criminal sect?
# It is inconceivable that the followers of Jesus formed a community in the city at that time of sufficient importance to attract public attention and the ill-feeling of the people. It isn't the most popular way to convert and bring people into their religion.
# The victims could not have been given to the flames in the gardens of Nero, as Tacitus allegedly said. According to another account by Tacitus these gardens were the refuge of those whose homes had been burned and were full of tents and wooden sheds. Why would he risk burning these by lighting human fires amidst all these shelters?
# According to Tacitus, Nero was in Antium, not Rome, when the fire occurred.
# The blood-curdling story about the frightful orgies of Nero reads like some Christian romance of the Dark Ages and not like Tacitus. Suetonius, while mercilessly condemning the reign of Nero, says that in his public entertainments Nero took particular care that no lives should be sacrificed, "not even those of condemned criminals."
# It is highly unlikely that he mingled with the crowd and feasted his eyes on the ghastly spectacle. Tacitus tells us in his life of Agricola that Nero had crimes committed, but kept his own eyes off them.
# Some authorities allege that the passage in Tacitus could not have been interpolated because his style of writing could not have been copied. But this argument is without merit since there is no "inimitable" style for the clever forger, and the more unususal, distinctive, and peculiar a style is, like that of Tacitus, the easier it is to imitate. Moreover, as far as the historicity of Jesus is concerned we are, perhaps, interested only in one sentence of the passage and that has nothing distinctively Tacitan about it.
# Tacitus is assumed to have written this about 117 A.D., about 80 years after the death of Jesus, when Christianity was already an organized religion with a settled tradition. The gospels, or at least 3 of them, are supposed to have been in existence. Hence Tacitus might have derived his information about Jesus, if not directly from the gospels, indirectly from them by means of oral tradition. This is the view of Dupuis, who wrote: "Tacitus says what the legend said." In 117 A.D. Tacitus could only know about Christ by what reached him from Christian or intermediate circles. He merely reproduced rumors.
# In no other part of his writings did Tacitus make the least allusion to "Christ" or "Christians." Christus was a very common name, as was Jesus. In fact Jospehus lists about 20 in the time Jesus was supposedly said to have existed.
# Tacitus is also made to say that the Christians took their denomination from Christ which could apply to any of the so-called Christs who were put to death in Judea, including Christ Jesus.
# The expression "Christians" which Tacitus applies to the followers of Jesus, was by no means common in the time of Nero. Not a single Greek or Roman writer of the first century mentions the name. The Christians who called themselves Jessaeans, Nazoraeans, the Elect, the Saints, the Faithful, etc. were universally regarded as Jews. They observed the Mosaic law and the people could not distinguish them from the other Jews. The Greek word Christus (the anointed) for Messiah, and the derivative word, Christian, first came into use under Trajan in the time of Tacitus. Even then, however, the word Christus could not mean Jesus of Nazareth. All the Jews without exception looked forward to a Christus or Messiah. It is, therefore, not clear how the fact of being a "Christian" could, in the time of Nero or of Tacitus, distinguish the followers of Jesus from other believers in a Christus or Messiah. Not one of the gospels applies the name Christians to the followers of Jesus. It is never used in the New Testament as a description of themselves by the believers in Jesus.
# Most scholars admit that the works of Tacitus have not been preserved with any degree of fidelity.
# This passage which could have served Christian writers better than any other writing of Tacitus, is not quoted by any of the Christian Fathers. It is not quoted by Tertullian, though he often quoted the works of Tacitus. Tertullian's arguments called for the use of this passage with so loud a voice that his omission of it, if it had really existed, amounted to a violent improbability.
# Eusebius in the 4th century cited all the evidence of Christianity obtained from Jewish and pagan sources but makes no mention of Tacitus.
# This passage is not quoted by Clement of Alexandria who at the beginning of the 3rd century set himself entirely to the work of adducing and bringing together all the admissions and recognitions which pagan authors had made of the existence of Christ Jesus or Christians before his time.
# Origen in his controversy with Celsus would undoubtedly have used it had it existed.
# There is no vestige or trace of this passage anywhere in the world before the 15th century. Its use as part of the evidences of the Christian religion is absolutely modern. Although no reference whatever is made to it by any writer or historian, monkish or otherwise, before the 15th century (1468 A.D.), after that time it is quoted or referred to in an endless list of works including by your supposed historian.
# The fidelity of the passage rests entirely upon the fidelity of one individual (first published in a copy of the annals of Tacitus in the year 1468 by Johannes de Spire of Venice who took his imprint of it from a single manuscript) who would have every opportunity and inducement to insert such an interpolation.
# In all the Roman records there was to be found no evidence that Christ was put to death by Pontius Pilate. If genuine, such a sentence would be the most important evidence in pagan literature. How could it have been overlooked for 1360 years?
# Richard Carrier explains that we are actually missing three years in Tacitus, "We are enormously lucky to have Tacitus--only two unrelated Christian monasteries had any interest in preserving his Annals, for example, and neither of them preserved the whole thing, but each less than half of it, nd by shear luck alone, they each preserved a different half. And yet we still have large gaps in it. One of those gaps is the removal of the years 29, 30, and 31 (precisely, the latter part of 29, all of 30, and the earlier part of 31), which is probably the deliberate excision of Christian scribes who were embarrassed by the lack of any mention of Jesus or Gospel events in those years (the years Jesus' ministry, death, and resurrection were widely believed at the time to have occurred). There is otherwise no known explanation for why those three years were removed. The other large gap is the material between the two halves that neither institution preserved. And yet another is the end of the second half, which scribes also chose not to preserve (or lost through negligent care of the manuscript, etc.)."
# Suetonius doesn't mention this event in his histories.
# And lastly, the style of the passage is not consistent with the usually mild and classic language of Tacitus

====Suetonius====
''As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he [Claudius] expelled them from Rome''

The use of Suetonius' "Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [Emperor Claudius in 49 CE] expelled them from Rome." as evidence for Jesus smacks of desperation time. Elsewhere in the same work (''The Lives of the Caesars'') Suetonius talks about how "Punishment was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men given to a new and mischievous superstition." under Nero demonstrating that Suetonius knew the difference between Jews and Christians.
# Suetonius wrote in the year 115 CE, so this is FAR from a contemporary account. He doesn't cite or list sources and Christianity would have been decently established by this time.
# Surely no one will contend that Christ was inciting riots at Rome 15 years after he was supposedly crucified at Jerusalem. And why would Jews be led by Jesus to begin with? But by citing this you are assuming this is the case.
# This passage contains no evidence for the historicity of Jesus, even if we substitute "Christus" for "Chrestus." Christus is merely the Greek-Latin translation of "anointed" and the phrase "at the instigation of Christus" could refer to a group of people just as much as it could have meant one person. This is reminiscent of the name Theophilus mentioned in the beginning of Acts and Luke, (whom the narrator/author of the books are addressing the prose too) which simply means "lover/friend of God." Which can apply to many people instead of one singular person (maybe even a congregation of people).
# "Chrestus" was not only a familiar personal name, it was also a name of the Egyptian Serapis or Osiris, who had a large following at Rome, especially among the common people. Hence "Christians" may be either the followers of a man named Chrestus, or of Serapis. Historians know what evil repute the Egyptian people, which consisted mainly of Alexandrian elements, had at Rome. While other foreign cults that had been introduced into Rome enjoyed the utmost toleration, the cult of Serapis and Isis was exposed repeatedly to persecution. The lax morality associated with their worship of the Egyptian gods and the fanaticism of their worshippers repelled the Romans, and excited the suspicion that their cults might be directed against the State.
# Vopiscus said, "Those who worship Serapis and the Chrestians,.... They are a turbulent, inflated, lawless body of men." Is it not possible that the reference to Chrestus and the Chrestians has been too hastily applied to Christos and Christians? The "Chrestians," who were detested by the people for their crimes,..., are not Christians at all, but followers of Chrestus, the scum of Egypt, the apaches of Rome, a people on whom Nero could very easily cast the suspicion of having set fire to Rome.
# The name in the text is not "Christus" but "Chrestus," which by no means is the usual designation of Jesus. It was a common name, especially among Roman freedman. (Cicero, Epistulae ad Familiares, book 2, letter 8, section 1; "What! Do you suppose that I meant you to send me an account of gladiatorial matches, of postponements of trials, of robberies by Chrestus, and such things as, when I am at Rome, nobody ventures to retail to me?&quotEye-wink Hence, the whole passage may have nothing whatever to do with Christianity.

====Pliny the Younger====
''Others named by the informer declared that they were Christians, but then denied it, asserting that they had been but had ceased to be, some three years before, others many years, some as much as twenty-five years. They all worshiped your image and the statues of the gods, and cursed Christ.''

Pliny the Younger only mentions the existence of the Christian sect and gives no name to the "Christ" or details about him.
# It proves nothing in regard to the existence of Jesus, but only affirms the existence of Christians.
# If the passage is referring to Christians, then it is also saying Christians sold the flesh of their sacrificial victims.
# Roman laws accorded religious liberty to all. Before Constantine there was not a single law opposed to freedom of thought.
# Trajan was one of the most tolerant of Roman emperors.
# Pliny is universally conceded to have been one of the most humane of men. That Pliny would have tortured two women is highly unlikely. The person and character of women in Pagan Rome were held in high esteem.
# The letter implies Bithynia had a large Christian population which is improbable at that early date.
# The passage implies Trajan was not acquainted with Christian beliefs and customs even though Christians were quite prominent in his capital.
# Cool For Christians to be found in so remote a province as Bithynia before acquiring notoriety in Rome is unlikely.
# Pliny says they sing a hymn to Christ as to God which Christians in Pliny's time would consider blasphemous since Jesus was no more than a man to them. His divinity was not established until 325 A.D.
# This letter is found in only one ancient copy of Pliny.
# The German literati, the most learned, say the epistle is not genuine.
# The genuineness of this correspondence of Pliny and Trajan is by no means certain. The tendency of the letters to put the Christians in as favorable a light as possible is too obvious not to excite some suspicion. For these and other reasons the correspondence was declared by experts to be spurious even at the time of its first publication in the 16th century.
# The undeniable fact is that some of the first Christians were among the greatest forgers who ever lived.[http://www.apollonius.net/forgery.pdf] This letter was first quoted by Tertullian and the age immediately preceding him was known for fraudulent writings. Tertullian and Eusebius, the people infavor of the passage's genuineness, were by no means the most reliablesources

====Thallus====
Thallus is the worse of the lot as it is in reality. We don't have Thallus' writings, only comments from Julius Africanus in the 3rd Century CE. The earliest manuscript of Africanus' work was done by George Syncellus in the 9th Century CE. Also Julius goes on to criticise him for saying this because a solar eclipse is impossible during a full moon. Even Bede (a Christian apologist) notes this is impossible because an eclipse can't take place during a full moon. For more on the dynamics of solar eclipses go [https://www.mreclipse.com/special/seprimer.html here]. However there was an eclipse in November of 29 CE, which may have been the one that Thallus referred to. Note the date of the only recorded solar eclipse occurred 4 years PRIOR to the date Christians give for the death of Jesus. Both F.Jacoby and R.T.France note that this does NOT in any way prove Thallus mentioned Jesus at all - it seems that it was Julius, nearly 2 centuries after Thallus alleged wrote about it, who made the connection. The supposed identification of Thallus depends entirely on a misreading of Josephus, which even the author F.F.Bruce admits is "doubtful. Dr. R.T.Frances (a conservative Christian) also rejects this dating of Thallus. Finally, Josephus mentions .. "allos Samareus genos" which has to be amended to read "Thallos" to support this identification. All Josephus mentions is that "Thallos" loaned money to Agrippa. This is very non-specific because even if Josephus had said "Thallos", there is no way to be sure that this is in fact the historian Thallus because during that time Thallos was a common name (the "which Thallus? problem")

====Lucian====
Lucian, 175 CE, refers to "the man who was crucified in Palestine because he introduced this new cult into the world." Regardless of the fact that this is NOT an eyewitness account but written 120 years after the supposed death of Jesus, nowhere in any of his writings does Lucian mention the man's name, or the cult he brought into the world. Using Lucian as an argument for the historicity of Jesus is special pleading on the Christian's part, that is we are too '''assume''' Lucian is talking about Jesus. Except that '''thousands''' of people were crucified in Palestine, and many of these men were known to start new religions, especially around the time of Lucian. Palestine covers an area roughly hundreds of miles from north to south and east to west, it spreads from north of Damascus to the far south, past Masada and the Dead Sea. The ONLY thing this proves is that a man was killed because he started a cult.

====Other sources====
Christian apologists mostly use the above sources for their "evidence" of Jesus because they believe they represent the best outside sources. All other sources (Christian and non-Christian) come from even less reliable sources, some of which include: Ignatius (50 - 98? C.E.), Polycarp (69 - 155 C.E.), Clement of Rome (? - circa 160 C.E.), Justin Martyr (100 - 165 C.E.), Tertullian (197 C.E.), Clement of Alexandria (? - 215 C.E.), Origen (185 - 232 C.E.), Hippolytus (? - 236 C.E.), and Cyprian (? - 254 C.E.). All of these provide merely hearsay.

==Many early Christians died for their beliefs, and they wouldn't die for a lie.==
* Their willingness to die shows that they believed firmly in their religious ideal, not that they believed Jesus was a real person. The religious ideal could easily have been considered a worthy cause, whether or not its founder was invented.
* This claim can be rebutted in a single word, "Jonestown".
*If they did in fact die specifically for holding to the claim that Jesus was real (which has in no way been demonstrated), that only indicates that they believed it, not that they were correct.
*Many people from different faiths have died for their beliefs. Christianity is not special in this respect.

Above we see an early reference to Christians by Pliny:
''Others named by the informer declared that they were Christians, but then denied it, asserting that they had been but had ceased to be, some three years before, others many years, some as much as twenty-five years. They all worshiped your image and the statues of the gods, and cursed Christ.''

When threatened the group of Christians quickly recanted and insisted they first said they were Christians in error, they stopped being Christians long ago and all hail the emperor and to hell with Christ! -- Apparently when push came to shove, the evidence is they recanted and rejected Christ. Strenuously refusing to die for their belief.

===The story of Jesus resembles other myths===
* Those stories are invented by the devil.
* A lot of parallels are stretches. For example, [[Horus]] is said to be born of a virgin, when he was born (in one telling of the story) of Hathor and the reassembled body of Osiris.
* Joseph Campbell's ''[[Hero With a Thousand Faces]]'' showed a general outline for myths, even without the myths being inter-related. A notable amount of the argument for mythicism is that the early Christians stole the God ideas from other groups rather than invent them outright. This is not necessarily the case.

===The burden is on those who argue there is a historical Jesus===
* It is generally accepted that there is a historical Jesus, but this is an argument of [[ad populum]]. What really matters is what the evidence says.

===Archaeological evidence?===
Although the New Testament mentions various cities, geological sites, kings and people that existed or lived during the alleged life of Jesus, these descriptions cannot serve as evidence for the existence of Jesus any more than works of fiction that include recognizable locations, and which make mention of actual people. Spider-Man was well known in [[New York City]], but we all know he is just a work of fiction.

Homer's ''Odyssey'', for example, describes the travels of Odysseus throughout the Greek Islands. The epic describes, in detail, many locations that existed in history. But should we take Odysseus, the Greek gods and goddesses, one-eyed giants and monsters as literal fact simply because the story depicts geographic locations accurately? Of course not. Mythical stories, fictions, and narratives almost always use familiar landmarks as placements for their stories. The authors of the Greek tragedies not only put their stories in plausible settings as happening in the real world, but also gave their supernatural characters the desires, flaws and failures of mortal human beings. Consider that fictions such as King Kong, Superman, and Star Trek include recognizable cities, planets, and landmarks, with their protagonists and antagonists miming human emotions.

Before the 1970s one could have been forgiven for thinking that archeology is the greatest tool for supporting the Bible. These days, however, Scholars are questioning the whole model of "biblical archaeology," which starts with the assumption that the Bible is a reliable guide for field research. Indeed, there is now so much contrary evidence '''against''' the historical accuracy of the Bible that the term "biblical archaeology" has been discarded by professional archaeologists, and ''Syro-Palestinian'' archaeology has been suggested by some practicing in the field as a more appropriate term.

====Nazareth====
There is not a shred of evidence for a city named Nazareth at the time of the alleged Jesus, [Leedom; Gauvin].[http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/nazareth.html] [http://www.nazarethmyth.info/scandalfour] One single house apparently was found [http://blog.bibleplaces.com/2009/12/first-century-house-excavated-in.html], however examples like these are fallacious, since no one knows where Nazareth was, but it was big enough to be a city that had a synagogue. No ancient historian or geographer mentions Nazareth. Nazareth is first noted at the beginning of the 4th century. Luke 28-30 tells that Nazareth was on a hill and that the hill had a cliff high enough that a man falling off it would be killed. The recently occupied town now called Nazareth, however, has never occupied the top of a hill.[http://www.atheists.org/Where_Jesus_Never_Walked]

Nazareth does not appear in the Old Testament. The Book of Joshua (19.10,16) – in what it claims is the process of settlement by the tribe of Zebulon in the area – records twelve towns and six villages and yet omits any 'Nazareth' from its list. Nazareth does not appear in the volumes of Josephus's writings (even though he provides a detailed list of the cities of Galilee). The Talmud, although it names 63 Galilean towns, knows nothing of Nazareth, nor does early rabbinic literature. Oddly, St Paul knows nothing of 'Nazareth'. Rabbi Solly's epistles (real and fake) mention Jesus 221 times, Nazareth not at all. None of the New Testament epistle writers ever mentions Nazareth or a Jesus of Nazareth even though most of the epistles got written before the gospels. In fact no one mentions Nazareth until the Gospels, where the first one didn't come into existence until about 40 years after the hypothetical death of Jesus. Apologists attempt to dismiss this by claiming that Nazareth existed as an insignificant and easily missed village (how would they know?), thus no one recorded it. However, whenever the Gospels speak of Nazareth, they always refer to it as a city, never a village (Luke1.26,27; Luke 2.3,4; Matthew 2.22,23; Luke 2.39,40), and a historian of that period would surely have noticed a city. (Note the New Testament uses the terms village, town, and city.) Nor can apologists fall on archeological evidence of preexisting artifacts for the simple reason that many cities get built on ancient sites. If a city named Nazareth existed during the 1st century, then we need at least one contemporary piece of evidence for the name, otherwise we cannot refer to it as historical.

Itinerarium Burdigalense – the Itinerary of the Anonymous Pilgrim of Bordeaux – is the earliest description left by a pious tourist. It is dated to 333 AD. The itinerary is a Roman-style list of towns and distances with the occasional comment. As the pilgrim passes Jezreel (Stradela) he mentions King Ahab and Goliath. At Aser (Teyasir) he mentions Job. At Neopolis his reference is to Mount Gerizim, Abraham, Joseph, and Jacob's well at Sichar (where JC 'asked water of a Samaritan woman'). He passes the village of Bethel (Beitin) and mentions Jacob's wrestling match with God, and Jeroboam. He moves on to Jerusalem. Our pilgrim – preoccupied with Old rather than New Testament stories – makes no single reference to 'Nazareth.'

[[James Randi]] made a video clip "[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSzQC1zKesU Questioning the Bible]" in 2009 critically examining many things, including the existence of Nazareth. He concluded that Nazareth is a fictional site that did not exist at the time of Jesus. The current city of Nazareth is nothing more than a tourist marketing site that is being maintained by [[pseudoarcheology]].

====Where is the Tomb?====
We don't know if Jesus was buried by Joseph of Arimathea. What we have are Gospel stories written decades later by people who had heard stories in circulation.

There have been reports claiming Jesus was not buried in ancient Judea, but rather in countries far away. Jesus has been reported to be buried in Srinagar, western Kashmir. Another report claims Jesus is buried in Shingo, northern Honshu, Japan.[http://www.thiaoouba.com/tomb.htm]

==Criticisms==
* Mythicism is a fringe position. Counter arguments to mythicists like this rarely go beyond [[ad hominem]] attacks. Mythicists use the same historical method used to establish the historicity of other historical figures, such as the following,
:*Alexander the Great: Unlike Jesus, we actually do have historical evidence for Alexander the Great. We have treaties, and even a letter from Alexander to the people of Chios engraved in stone (332 B.C.E). Alexander left a mass of destroyed and created cities behind. We have buildings, libraries and cities, such as Alexandria, left in his name.

:*Julius Caesar: We have portraits and artifacts of Caesar, contemporary witnesses, even letters written by his own hand. We have a number of inscriptions and coins produced contributed to Caesar. Contemporary and reliable historians (Suetonius, Appian, Cassius Dio, Plutarch) all mention and describe the life and actions of Caesar. They often quote and name many different sources (both friendly and hostile to Caesar), showing a wide reading of the witnesses and documents. We have letters from his enemies, including Cicero, that mention Caesar. [http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/exist.html] Also, the history of Rome could not have proceeded as it did had Caesar not physically moved an army into Italy.

:*Augustus: For Augustus Caesar, we have the ''Res gestae divi augusti'', the emperor's own account of his works and deeds, a letter to his son (Epistula ad Gaium filium), Virgil's eyewitness accounts, and much more.

:*Napoleon: Napoleon left behind artifacts, eyewitness accounts and letters. We have contemporary eye-witnesses, journals, even a portraits of Napoleon.

==Counter-apologetics==
* In the weak form — "we shouldn't believe in a historical Jesus or actively disbelieve the proposition" — it is hard to argue that a character should be accepted as due to the lack of good evidence of historicity. Keeping this in mind, it becomes progressively harder to accept a divine one if there doesn't exist the grounds for a historical one.
* Even experts have to give evidence for their beliefs, their opinions are based more on assumption and tradition than a thorough survey of the evidence.
* Nonetheless, there are still scholars that are mythicists such as theologians Robert M. Price, Thomas L. Thompson, and Tom Harpur, as well as historians Bruno Bauer, Edwin Johnson, and Bertrand Russell.
* Jesus's biography fits [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FitzRoy_Somerset,_4th_Baron_Raglan Lord Raglan]'s hero pattern remarkably well, with [http://department.monm.edu/classics/courses/clas230/mythdocuments/heropattern/default.htm this source] giving him a score of 18 out of 22, and [http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa4.htm this one] giving him 20. This makes him comparable with several legendary heroes, like Romulus and King Arthur (both 19). Well-documented heroes typically score much lower; Lord Raglan could not find anyone with a score greater than 6 or 7 (''The Hero'', pp. 184-85).

==External links==
*[http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Jesus_myth_theory Jesus myth theory] RationalWiki Article

[[Category:Jesus]]

User:Tatarize

2012-12-24T20:58:15Z

Tatarize:

"'Jesus lived a long, healthy and happy life and passed away peacefully in his sleep for your sins' doesn't have the same ring to it..." -RevDave

"(It's called a bombing "campaign") Because there are a number of bombings over an extended period of time, presumably intended to change public opinion for a political end. It's like an election campaign, but by more humane means." -RH3

"(shrug) I just don't understand all this arguing about what color, mass and composition of the elephant's dandruff is when there's NO FREAKING ELEPHANT." -chip

"[Bush] is a living example of the Confucian principle that there cannot be moral order when there is intellectual disorder." -RH3

"[Faith is a sin] Because it is an attack against one's own self. One defies and defiles one's ability to comprehend the world in favor of maintaining a particular belief. Faith is molesting one's own mind in order to accept the products of someone else's mind." -AtheistKeith

"A deity who wanted to be believed in would try to either make itself intelligible or improve our powers of understanding until we were capable of proving it. If it cannot do either, it is perhaps not a deity worthy of our attention." -RH3

"A devout agnostic is one who gets down on her knees and shrugs three times a day." -mrbehemoth

"A good Christian should always strive to emulate Christ. I do my best to help, but I'm having trouble finding sufficient quantities of lumber". -MrBehemoth

"A lot of people are reluctant to call themselves atheists because they fear it has a stigma of arrogance or carries with it a claim of certainty that they do not feel. I am not interested in denying reality to satisfy prejudices; I prefer to shout the truth and attempt to de-stigmatise it." -mrbehemoth

"A person ought to be scared, very scared, of any frame of thought that says evidence is irrelevant." -DougofCal

"A rude person might suggest that there are no factual errors in the Bible because it contains no facts. Naturally, I wouldn't say any such thing." -RH3

"A social occasion is hardly the place to make a bold statement of disbelief. I would rather bow my head and close my eyes for grace and be thought courteous, if hypocritcal, than to make a point of not doing so and be thought a lout, but an honest lout." -Prismatic

"According to many religions, gay sex and gay relationships are immoral, yet banning them doesn't seem to yield any net positive result for the religious people who defined them as immoral." -Keepwe

"Actually ALL faith is nothing more than a blind leap. It's not built upon knowledge; it's an attempt to leap over the areas that logic prevents you from traversing; faith is the circumvention of logic." -chip

"Actually, I don't think it has that much to do with intelligence. More with education. Many atheists are former believers. They didn't get smarter, they got less ignorant." -Icky

"After you've extricated what you like from Christianity, and dismissed or superficially rationalized away what you don't like from Christianity, why call your derived religion Christian? The negative connotations of the term do your religion a disservice." -eljay

"Ah, spite. Is there anything it can't do?" -Jedi Ducky

"Ah, You must be a christian: You can't write, you can't think, and you don't know when to shut up. :)" -chip

"Aha, the well-known and universally feared argumentum ad taedium — the appeal to pique. You won't continue the discussion unless we stop annoying you with logic." -Prismatic

"Alas, the obvious does not take root in the minds of the oblivious." -AtheistKeith

"Alas, the virtual lacks the redeeming virtue of reality—it may be unpleasant, but it is." -Prismatic

"All in all, I don't think it matters a lot what the ultimate source of "our morality" is. I do think that for society to function smoothly and fairly it should be at least conditionally accepted that we humans are the source of their legitimacy." -Citizen12

"All in all, I find that I have no use or need for religion. I merely try to spend my days enjoyably, help my fellow man when I can, and hope to live to a ripe old age before the darkness comes again." -J.Dean

"All medicines have their side effects and these can include unleashing the forces of darkness upon an unsuspecting world. But nevertheless, I think you ought to see your doctor about a prescription." -Mo

"All the superstitious drivel I was addicted to like gods, pyramid power, ESP, astrology, and the list goes on, just cheapens existence. How much more fantastic is the world revealed by science than the one explained by some tales of magic." -Flux

"All too often our leaders don't represent the majority of the people they govern and, sadly, all too often they do." -Rev.Conor

"American Christians often fail to realize that their political and social opinions may be more shaped by their American culture than by their Christianity." -AR Cline

"Amongst the greatest absurdities that consume mankind is governance by divine decree. That form of control is a pox on truth and plague on reason. When it doesn't destroy hope, it ruins inspiration." - Reshuffle

"And his sin was gaining knowledge of good and evil. You know, morals? That thing you claim atheists don't have? So if we have no knowledge of good and evil, we atheists are without Original Sin. So we don't need your preaching. We're pure! You're the sinner! Go away." -Mrreindeer

"And if you are going to drive over a bridge would you rather drive over one which was designed according to tested engineering principles or one which was designed according to faith in god's ability to "bear you up"? Faith without evidence is immoral because it is criminally negligent." -gclason

"And the lesson we should all take away from these incidents is: Nature is always trying to kill us, especially those with psychological issues and intellectual challenges." -MrReindeer

"And to bring it back to Asimov's point, it actually works against the notion of a Christian god. After a close read of the Bible, an unbiased and impartial response would be, 'And I'm supposed to believe that?'" -Tayana42

"And when I noticed that they were advertising toilet paper as containing vitamin E, after a few minutes breathing into a paper bag, I came to the conclusion that perhaps the Unabomber had a point." -Fluffy666

"And you also well know that non-believers can care very deeply about religion just as a person with no interest in baseball can care very deeply about a person beating him with a baseball bat." -Icky

"And, by the way, I haven't "chosen to ignore" the one who leads you... I believe it (Jesus, your god, whoever it is you follow) never existed. If I had to bother ignoring everything that does not, and has never existed, I'd be too damn busy to do anything else." -logicalsoul

"Any being that wipes out a large portion of the human population is an enemy of humankind, and anyone who bows to It is a traitor of the worst kind." -DarkAngel

"Any brain that believes in intelligent design is evidence of the failure of the hypothesis." -Mo

"Any knowledge or lack of same about gods feeds into my agnosticism. A sufficient amount of knowledge wouldn't change my atheism into theism, it'd render the whole concept of atheism (and theism) meaningless." - RevDave

"Any positives claimed for religions are simply due to the limits that religion has placed on people's ability to conceive of and embrace realistic approaches to accomplish the same things." -lahatte

"Anyone remember The Professionals? Late 70s/early 80s, Lewis Collins and Martin Shaw as Bodie and Doyle, some sort of special branch of the police, fighting terrorists and the like? Every so often I have to remind myself I'm watching the news." -RevDave

"Anyone who asks such a question could not possibly understand the answer." -DougofCal

"Apparently it's necessary to remind you that you've already demonstrated to me that you are not worth the miniscule effort it takes to rebut your pointless statements." -chip

"Are atheists smarter? I'm not sure, but I DO know that the black ones have better rhythm, the Hispanic ones have more kids, and the Asian ones are better at Math." -Crosshatch

"Are you a former drug abuser? If so, would I be correct in attributing your apparent inability to engage in critical thinking to drug-related brain damage?" -Elmeraho

"As a surmise, is your voice contralto? I happen to have gathered some negative stereotypes from various soprani of my acquaintance concerning contralti (of which imputed maleness is unfortunately one.)" -Mick(Canaris1)

"As an ex-Republican and ex-theist, I can, when pressed, justify virtually any belief or statement of mine, while denigrating anything that contradicts me, as long as we don't make reality too much of an issue." -FrankDK

"As for people who don't want to hear "Darwin" or "evolution", Well, boohoo, tough luck. When I'm sitting in a plane I don't wanna hear "Newton" or "gravity" either, but that doesn't make me think that the laws of gravity can be ignored. Reality is what it is, not what you think it should be." -Seeker

"As for sushi, I really don't know why bits of raw fish stuck on to gobs of gooey rice have become so popular in places where real food is available. I can only think it is one of those silly fashions, like bottled water and tattoos, that the brainless follow because everyone else is doing it." -RH3

"As noted, some of us prefer to try to understand and recognize reality as opposed to escaping it. Regardless, if you're going to define 'a crutch' as anything which makes life easier or helps get one through life, then you're going to have to include love, companionship, food, shelter - damn near everything - as a 'crutch'." -chip

"As the Bushes climbed aboard the helicopter, I thought of what Peter Lorre said to Vincent Price at the funeral of Bela Lugosi, famous for his vampire roles: 'Do you think we should drive a stake through his heart, just in case?'" -Prismatic

"As usual, Coulter is talking out of her adam's apple. Although I must say I do find her strangely sexy, in a liberated concentration camp sort of way." -Icky

"At this age it becomes a crap shoot. You may be lucky or not. You can shift odds a bit in your favor with good habits, but that is all you can do. You have to live on the edge while you watch others slipping over it. " -Prismatic

"Atheism goes hand in hand with communism. Therefore, all atheists are left-wing. The existence of god is perfectly obvious to any reasonable person. Therefore all atheists are insane. People become atheists only because they hate God. Therefore all atheists are hate-filled. So no, there are no atheists who are not hate-filled left-wing wackos." -mrbehemoth

"Atheism isn't something you argue against. If there's no God, there's no God. Either provide evidence or realize that we're perfectly reasonable saying that the evidence for God is on par with the evidence for werewolves. Unless you're going to ask that we have faith in werewolves, there's nothing left." -Tatarize

"Atheism requires as much faith as believing that the sun will rise tomorrow. Theism requires as much faith as believing that there are elves in my pants. Hope that helps." -Psykomakia

"Atheists are sexy. We make our own heaven." -Saint Bengel

"Atheists have imaginations too. They just don't misinterpret emotional feelings as communication with a god." -lahatte

"Atheists often claim to know the bible better than theists, and some of us who came out of the dungeons of christ do know it better; however, every atheist who wants to discredit the bible has to know what the literature is and why it is nonsense. This collection of literature is the guiding "light" for millions of people who vote and create policy for all of us." -apostateofthelord

"Athests are not annoyed, we're just foresaken." -ptcarnahan

"Auto labeling forum bot 2000 Gold edition: This post has been given the following labels: Rambling, wrong, run on paragraphs, hard to read, waste of time, silly. Please rate the above labels to further increase the correctness of the Auto Labeling Forum Bot 2000, Gold edition." -MaxHarper

"Bad evidence, such as referring to known hoaxes, is not very compelling evidence. You may want to take steps to compensate for your confirmation bias, your gullibility, and your undue credulity." -Eljay

"Bah. Christians. Who needs insults and swearwords when you have such an insulting word as "Christian". -Grahor

"Basing a state on an ethnicity is to deny the full, equal, humanity of people of other ethnicities. It is to maintain - in mirrored form - the separation that brought about the oppression of the minority in the first place." -RH3

"Basing your own purpose on the purposes (or lack thereof) of the universe is a poor fit and will be unfulfilling. Especially considering that you do not know the purpose(s) of the universe, or even if it has a purpose." -Eljay

"Bathroom walls were sort of like primitive internet forums." -Letxbex

"Because I want to feel I am worthy of love, and if someone is going to love me no matter what I do or what sort of person I am, there's no point in being worthy of it." -mrbehemoth

"Because the human race is the most important thing in the universe and we're vital to God's plans, so therefore he had to create everything so we had things to study and wonder about and realize it couldn't have happened without God creating it and by doing so we'd fulfill God's plan and be closer to God and God would be happy and we'd all have ice cream and cake. And like that." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"Being a skeptic in a group of believers is like being a designated driver." -NOGODHERE

"Believing your own delusions is not freedom. Just thought you should know that." -Goldblock

"Besides the things I would like from everyone—kindness, courtesy, tolerance, and helpfulness—I would like Christians to recognize my freedom of conscience. Too often their first reaction to learning one is an atheist is to start missionary work. " -Prismatic

"Best argument for atheism: the lack of argument for theism." -RationalSerenity

"Bigots always have an explanation for why their position really isn't bigotry. "God said so" is very popular. They're still bigots, and if their god said so, then he's a bigot too." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"Black and white, yep that describes atheists in general on one point. No God! After that color creeps into everything." -dlove5duke

"Blatant Sarcasm Police? Well, they won't have much to do around here..." -KateHost

"Boy, if I had a nickel for every time I've read this . . . well, I'd just have a nickel. You have reached a new high in incomprehensibility." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"BTW, this is a great sentence: 'The creation of a things had to follow something contrary to the laws that sustain nature's processes'. If I had to sum up how dumb you are in one sentence, this would be it." -GrandPoohbahofIrreverence (RDalin)

"BTW, we are born equal and we all go back to being equal 6 feet under. Some of us take the time in between to elevate ourselves, and others prefer to remain mired in mindless superstitions." -DarkAngel

"But every foot has to be fought for tooth and nail. We have to pry women's rights from the arms of Deuteronomy. We have to fight a war to free ourselves from the slave codes of Holy Writ. We have to fight for gay rights to seize them from Leviticus. And we have to oppose the anti-semitism of John. We need to battle for science against Genesis. We need to redeem history from Genesis to Kings. We need to defend ourselves from Revelation and Daniel." - Tatarize

"But just think about this: wouldn't a person who doesn't expect a reward at the end or fear eternal punishment and who acts ethically and with honesty and compassion, anyway, (a righteous atheist) be morally superior to a god-fearing ass-kisser?" -Crosshatch

"But later I'm gonna be a minister/engineer that's gonna challege all these theories and make evolution look stupid. Count on it." -hydro

"But look at it this way: it wouldn't be evidence of the supernatural, just evidence that what we thought was impossible, isn't. Like the invention of the aeroplane showing that the impossibility of heavier-than-air flight was not actually an impossibility. If magic existed, it wouldn't contradict any natural laws because it would be part of them. It would be another natural force like gravity." -mrbehemoth

"But we don't have to concern ourselves with gods a great deal as they don't seem to be around and they don't seem necessary to get through the day." -pgobrien

"But you are the nation which invented Vegemite, and no one can ever take that away from you lot, nor would they wish to." -Ibn Tumart

"But “You didn’t have faith” is leveled as an accusation. As if not believing everything one is told without requiring evidence were somehow a moral failing. It isn’t. If anything, the reverse is true. It is symptomatic of a lack of interest in truth to be faced with evidence against a belief one holds and to ignore that evidence in order to hold onto the belief."-SusannahHB

"But, always remember, the Bible is mostly for condemning other people. Only a few select passages are to be applied to the Christians themselves." -AtheistKeith

"Can you at least TRY to put yourself in my shoes? Can you at least TRY to conjure up a smidgen of empathy, to understand how incredibly stupid and demanding of mockery this belief is?" - chip

"Catholic birth control teaching? Someone call the Kamikaze Pilot Crash Avoidance Training Centre, they're now second place in the absurdity stakes." - Rev.Dave

"Catholic wafers are the transubstantiated body of Christ. Protestant wafers are the demon seed of Satan. At least that's what I learned in Catholic Sunday school." -Eljay

"Children aren't any more prone to making up stories than adults. They are just not as good at it, so we think they are charming. When they get older, we call them liars. Or preachers." -Meow

"Christ is a fictional biblical character. The fictional character in a fable died. But no actual gods were harmed in the writing of that fable." -Eljay

"Christians ignore the fact that lukewarm adherents greatly outnumber the fervid ones; that adherents do not practice the tenets of their belief, and that the mainstream churches are all but dead now." -Prismatic

"Christians who come here, with a few exceptions, are generally bigoted idiots. I see you're not one of the exceptions." -Seth351

"Christmas is a secular holiday for me. It's all about food, family, gathering, Santa, and presents. Nothing about Christianity or Jesus. Axial tilt is the reason for the season." - Eljay

"Clearly there's a mindset among the ultra-religious of many religions that wants to tightly control the behavior of everybody else. Surely this is a form of mental illness, isn't it? The same sort that infects the Taliban and Mel Gibson?" -Freeksngeeks

"Common sense isn't very useful, really. First of all, it's basically saying "Well, it just makes sense, I don't need to use logic or such". Only those that can't support their arguments claim common sense." -MaxHarper

"Complaining that your right to infringe on other's rights is being infringed upon is laughable -- you have no such right, and your belief that you do is immaterial."-Flux

"Congratulations! You're not only arrogant and ill-informed but you're also a nutter. The holy hat-trick." -Fox(DavidFox)

"Consider the more likely scenario. Humans are not "worthless, dirty rags" at all. Instead, a religion developed that contrived a crisis just so it could get you to accept what it has to sell. Con artists use that tactic all the time to sell you something. They invent a problem, persuade you that you have that problem, and then make you believe that they - and only they - have the solution to the problem, so you better buy it before it is too late. That is all your religion is doing. It is emotionally abusing you, manipulating you into feeling ashamed, and then telling you that your only hope is to buy into their product." -AtheistKeith

"Courtesy? Courtesy is holding a door for someone. It's not catering to someone's silly little fantasy world." -Starriver6

"Cowboy Dubya. CHopper pilot Dubya. General Dubya. Churchy Dubya. Drooling idiot Dubya. Collect the whole set." -DeadWombat

"Currently there are at least 3 counties in Floriduh whose school boards have passed anti-evolution resolutions. That list could go up to 12 counties, if a statement by the superintendent of the Taylor county board is accurate. In other news, barbarians have just sacked Rome." -Rev.Martini

"Cynic: noun. Term used by fools to describe realists." -DarkAngel

"Damn, Charlton Heston is a bad actor. You forget how bad until the guy in the plastic monkey mask out-acts him." -DeadWombat

"Dear Santa: I would like for these believers to reach the bottom of the barrel and stop there, instead of digging further. Today would be great, sometime in my lifetime would do. Thanks in advance," -RevDave

"Death and destruction are the meat and potatoes for any good Christian meal. Especially when it comes in Biblical proportions." -meow

"Did you know that DDT has caused men to become homosexual?" -EKDaniel (Theist)

"Discrimination against women and gays, I think, is something many religions, including Catholicism, stand guilty of. And the people within those religions shouldn't get accepted as good and decent people just because they are sincere in the abhorrent views they hold." - mrbehemoth

"Do you think big, bold fonts make bullshit any less fecal?" -nganga2

"Do you have any idea of the close resemblance your posts bear to a poorly translated instruction manual for a Japanese clock radio?" -mrbehemoth

"Doesn't matter how fast you become cynical, you can never really keep up with as cynical as you need to be." -Tatarize

"Doesn't that sound noble and lofty? It's like a country song that makes people cry, but when you look at the words objectively, it's just a string of idiotic babbling." -apostateofthelord

"Don't be so lazy, and do your own research, as I suggested. I no longer try to spoon-feed the solid food of knowledge to creationists because they're simply not old enough to digest it." -Flux(55A)

"Don't never not let comprehensive writing in sentences make sense stop you! Because you writer. Not need check writing before posting. Just words that other people read, how dare they expect clear words in row without hiccups?!" -MrBunny2

"Doubt is not a weakness. Doubt is a strength because, without it, we can never find any truths. All we find is other peoples' dogma." -Mo

"Doubt seems to be very popular among Christians. But it's never 'we have doubts about God's existence, so how do we find out the truth?' It's always 'we have doubts about God's existence - given we already KNOW he exists, how do we deal with our doubts?'" - mrbehemoth

"Each proof you give, like the solar system, is eventually shown to be the work of natural forces, and soon it will take a herculean effort on the part of the faithful to ignore the fact that there's no reason to believe a God exists." -BillZBub

"Edited to add omitted preposition." -Seth351

"Even without the homophobia, Christianity - in common with Judaism and Islam, just to name two - is a supernaturalist belief system. As such, whatever it brings to the market of ideas will not be worth buying." -GrandPoohbahOf Irreverence (RDalin)

"Every excuse for belief without evidence is equally invalid whether it comes from an illiterate half-wit or a well-spoken college graduate, and that should make the college graduate very uncomfortable." - TwshNB

"Every parent expects their kids to stop believing in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, etc.; but for so many parents those kids had better not dare question the existence of their deity. It's fine to think for yourself, but only within certain boundaries." -LogicalSoul

"Every time some religionist five crayons short of a box comes here, I learn something new from the more knowledgeable folks on the forum, so keep them whackadoos coming." -NonProphet

"Everybody disagreeing with me all of a sudden. And here I was starting to think this was just a godless 'yes' factory." -Tatarize

"Everybody knows we should not steal and rape and kill. Only an idiot needs a truckload of robes and scrolls and magic symbols and books attached." -Crosshatch

"Everyone has their blind spots and clings to things they shouldn't. But religion relies on that and so they are based on exploiting those failings at their fundamental level. Any system that bases itself on human failings rather than human successes is fundamentally a stupid system." -Tony

"EVERYONE uses the Lord's name "in vain" - no matter how much you say it, he just ain't there." -Meow

"Everyone, stop sucking." -DreamerRach

"Everything is amazing to idiots. I'm starting to quickly stop caring what folks think is God. That whole, "Just give me proof and I'll look at it" thing we atheists do is getting to be a large waste of time." -Tatarize

"Exactly how ignorant are you? Sorry, that's not fair to you, and I withdraw the question. Approximately how ignorant are you?" -RevDave

"Faith conquers truth, reason, hope, decency, kindness, compassion and morality. Next to it is ignorance, which conquers anything that escapes faith." -AtheistKeith

"Faith is a refusal to allow reality to interfere with the lies one tells onesself." -RH3

"Faith is curable. Get well soon." -AtheistKeith

"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to a great gig as a right-wing editorialist." -DarkAngel

"Final notes: There is no god. The president is a douche [Bush II]. Everybody dies. Everybody rots."-Tatarize

"Finding it difficult to accept that people really can believe such preposterous religious stories, I am nagged by the idea that somewhere, maybe buried deeply in their subconscious, there must be this little voice squeaking "bullshit! bullshit!". -C12

"First, it was Motor Trend's Car Executive of the Year. Now it's the Nobel Peace Prize. I'm going to use my psychic powers and predict Obama will next win the MVP Award for the 2009 World Series." -Gonzo

"For any future discussion, I'm going to make a pre-emptive negative claim against anyone that thinks that my future thoughts and opinions are flawed. I said it first, so you are screwed, buddy." - DaBlue357

"For being a bunch of prudes, Christians breed like rabbits. And I swear it doesn't seem possible but there's only so much intellect between them and it gets thinner and thinner." - Tatarize

"For some reason, terrifying the British seems difficult. A lot of attempts have been made over the last hundred years or so, but Margaret Thatcher is the only one who succeeded." -RH3

"Forgive me. I need to do penance for all of the things I just thought of that I would like to do for penance." Abbeynormal

"Frankly, I think someone should evacuate the entire "holy land" and give it over to Disney to turn into a theme park -- perhaps something with a marsupial motif." -AtheistKeith

"Frankly, it's kinda sad to see such an intelligent, normally reasonable fellow's cognitive facilities brought so low by his subserviance to a religious meme, but it DOES help to illustrate the perniciousness of such memes, and I suppose for that I must thank you."-chip

"From my lengthy and involved experience with the christians, they actually don't read their bibles as much as they might claim. They do skip over the boring bits. They scratch their heads at the illogical bits. They ask their pastors to explain the unreasonable bits. Then the pastor will proclaim the doctrine that "explains" it all, and everybody goes home happy that all's well with the bible once again." -apostateofthelord

"From time to time I think about what I want to do with my life, and then I concentrate on doing those things. Sitting around complaining about how it sucks to have a serious illness isn't on my list. Nor is thinking about how lucky I am to be alive today on my list." Ericwoof

"Fundamentalists hang onto their beliefs by being steadfast to the whole Bible. Moderates hang on to theirs by reinventing it. I don't know who's beliefs I respect less." -Tayana42

"Fundingo is no fun if you have to keep crossing off the same square." -Saint Bengel

"Funny that people think that the emotions of bronze age men should be what runs the world." -Popsy

"Given the fact that they had thousands of years in which most people were totally illiterate in order to get their darn story straight and get down a book that wasn't riddled with errors and plotholes, I'm not impressed." -Aino

"God allows evil to prevent more evil. You see, it's a trade off that an all-powerful god doesn't really have to make." Tatarize

"God created a pot that he KNEW - BEFORE he created it - was going to put a hole in itself. This is the pot's fault. God will now punish the pot unless the pot kisses God's ass. THAT is an accurate summation of Xianity." -chip

"God creates evil, and that is fair? God tempts Adam and Eve who don't know good from evil, and that is fair? God murders and tells his followers to murder, and that is fair? The only thing that keeps your god from being an absolute monster is the fact that it doesn't exist." -FrankDK

"God died for YOUR sins?? Wow, do all the other xians know that God's dead? I bet they'll be pissed off at YOU." -chip

"God doesn't want to be our bitch. He wants us to love him and find rewards in his love, not use him when we need money or a new car." -knud87

"God is the greatest abortionist of all since 80% of pregnancies are miscarried. Add in the number of pregnancies that result in fundamentalist Christians and you can see how very few conceptions end up with a functioning human being at all." -mrbehemoth

"God is unnecessary for cruelty. It helps, of course, but it is not necessary." -Grahor

"God must be a television writer. Rather than making something original, he simply recycled an old script and changed a few lines." -Flux

"God so loved the world he gave [murdered] his only begotten son. I'm glad my parents don't love me that much." -Eljay

"God's momma is so fat, when she farts the universe is destroyed and reborn." -lahatte

"God, being entirely fictional, is a blank canvas upon which believers can paint whatever image pleases them. All are equally valid, which is to say not at all." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"Good - sometimes people need a metaphorical smack upside the head. Sacred cows need kicking, and I, for one, am proud to be in the boot-fcuking brigade." -Flux

"Good atheists and good theists give time and money to make the world a better place. The only difference is that some of the theists also spend time praying about it. Then there are those theists that only pray. I wouldn't call them good." -benmcd

"Has it occurred to any of you that the very people who tell you abstinence is 100% effective are the only people in the world who don't really believe that?" -Tatarize

"Hateful people believe in a hateful God, loving people believe in a loving God, and so on. It's about what should be expected if all gods are figments of people's imaginations." -DougOfCal

"Have you ever entertained the idea that some people have not sought evidence for God because they find that everything they have casually heard about God is exceedingly preposterous?" -Citizen12

"He reminds me of a ratty, semi-deflated soccer ball... Fun to kick around for a while, but ultimately unsatisfying." -Ozy666

"He sends Jesus to them, and then blinds them so that they don't recognize him? God is crazy." -RH3

"Heaven is wishful thinking combined with the conceit that one is too important to cease to exist." -groovyspaceman

"Heck, if I perceive that the Emperor has no clothes and I say so, it doesn't make me angry and rebellious, it just makes me...right. :-D" -J.Dean

"Here's one I haven't been able to work into a discussion yet: "Whether they come from Red states or Blue states is immaterial. All creationists are in the State of Denial." -Seeker

"Here's your daily reminder that you have failed yet again to substantiate ANY of your claims made in this thread - you merely reiterate and repeat your assertions without ANY support whatsoever. Your pockets are empty; your hands wave feebly in the air, trying to distract your audience with pitifully inadequate attempts at sleight-of-hand. You're like the proverbial naked Emperor, strutting and preening through the streets while the people point and laugh at you." -chip

"Hey, I have two more cases of metastatic cancer and one more thing of pancreatic cancer. I actually like my odds." -Tatarize

"Hey, I trust in God... to always give justification to those that need divine excuses." -MaxHarper

"His arguments are so preposterously bad that I would not be surprised if they become living entities and come to knock him on the head." -Anduin

"Hmm... come to think of it, maybe that is why they have to use the adjective "Christian", in "Christian love", "Christian charity", "Christian kindness": because they don't amount to what any objective observer would call "love", "charity", or "kindness"." -AtheistKeith

"Hooza cwever wittle twoll? Hoozee, den? You are! Yes, you are!" -Flux

"How about a 30-year-old energetic Black Pope? I think a lot of people are tired of being told how to run their lives by old, old, white men." -AndrewF4

"How can a "movement" have no goal? It cannot. And what is the goal of atheism? Sleeping in on Saturdays and Sundays and saving your knees for gardening?" -Mo

"How could anything irrational be truly moral? Without a logical basis there can't be any right or wrong, good or evil." -gclason

"How profound. So we should believe in Christianity because, even though we have no idea what it means, we can be vaguely certain that it means something?" -Mrbehemoth

"However, if we were to take the story of the serpant in the garden literally, we would find that the serpant was actually man's carnal mind." - Ginger09 (Christian)

"Humans don't have a "god-shaped void". Humans have a void that seeks knowledge. You have invented a void-shaped god and you no longer desire to seek knowledge." -lahatte

"I almost referred to my wife as 'mom' once. That I can still type is evidence of my ability to quickly swallow words before they come out." -Saint Bengel

"I always get drunk and lie around naked in my tent after I build a 450-foot boat and put two of every animal on the planet in it and then float around for five months" -Seth

"I always thought internet females were really 40 year old fat dudes that chain smoke and need a back wax." -Gakuct

"I am always amazed - foolishly, I think - when Christians come up with this "explanation" for a former Christian turning to non-belief. The whole process of holding to a position - any position - and then abandoning that position when presented with evidence to the contrary seems to entirely escape them. No, it can only be because you never really held that position in the first place." -Rdalin

"I am always both baffled by and suspicious of people who are not raised from infancy into insane beliefs, but assume them as mature and fully-functioning adult human beings." -mrbehemoth

"I am convinced that atheists and other free thinkers are not aware of the power of persuasion resident in a pulpit. We should not simply deride preachers as bizarre; they are powerful enemies of truth and rational thinking." -apostateofthelord

"I am currently reading about my tenth book in as many years on quantum physics for the layman. One day I hope to be able to explain to someone why nobody understands it, but first I have to misunderstand it properly myself." - David Fox

"I am not so impressed with myself that I should think myself to be so awesome that only a god could have made me. The flawed processes of nature are up to the challenge of making a flawed being such as me. For thinking this, Christians call me arrogant." -AtheistKeith

"I am the night. Kind of like Batman, only with more astronomy homework." -Jedi Ducky

"I became a vociferous atheist about 10 seconds after I was told what religion was, and about eight seconds after I laughed." -Tatarize

"I believe Billy Graham is financing a new documentary series on famous atheists entitled "Atheists: Homicidal Satanists or Drug-addicted Paedophiles?" So it'll be looking at the issue from both sides." -mrbehemoth

"I believe Christianity is ridiculous and not to be taken seriously, but that has nothing to do with atheism." - RDalin

"I believe facts are an important part of discussion. You either have accurate facts, or not much of anything else. Checking facts is a good place to start an examination of any idea or belief." -Tayana42

"I belong to a non-conformist sub-culture. Of course, so do you. It's so non-conformist you don't even have to join it to be a member." -mrbehemoth

"I bet you didn't know you could use your old wire hangers to dry your octopuses." -SnoopyLucy

"I came to realize that an appeal to faith could be used to justify anything at all. But, whatever can justify anything, actually justifies nothing. If you appeal to faith, you might as well say that you believe whatever you feel like believing. There is no difference." -DougofCal

"I can count the number of times I've doubted gravity on one hand... even if I worked in a wood shop and lost all my fingers." -Tatarize

"I can respect people's right to hold ridiculous beliefs. But respecting the beliefs? Absolutely not. I merely tolerate them, and in the interests of social grease, I try to keep my utter disrespect quiet." -Mo

"I can respect the beliefs of an individual who believes in god because of the beauty and complexity of the universe and yet makes no pretenses to know what or who god is (as Christians do). Any other beliefs regarding god I cannot respect". -jellomold2

"I can't answer for Chip, but name-calling always makes ME feel like a big man. Wanker." -mrbehemoth

"I can't even imagine some guy in the sky keeping track of everything I ever do in my life just to see if I'm good enough to hang out with him after I'm dead." -Teen meow (age 13)

"I can't even stand to go there. The only thing more annoying than the stupid things they post is the stupid things they must be thinking that they don't post." -dlove5duke

"I can't remember, are Mennonites the ones who hang down from the ceiling, or grow up from the floor?" -DeadWombat

"I cannot believe in a god that will not hold me responsible for my own sins, but that will hold me responsible for the sins of others." -Anduin

"I cannot tell whether it is real or parody. Just as any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, so is any sufficiently abysmal ignorance indistinguishable from "conservative" Christianity." -AtheistKeith

"I choose my enemies (and overall people I'm being an ass toward) with care, so that I could proudly say "never I conformed silently with the likes of them, their doings, ideas and ideals, but was an unrelenting ass toward them, and did all I could to improve the universe". -Grahor

"I considered a life of prostitution, but you know what they say: 'you can't sell what you can't give away'." - FrankDK

"I could have worded the speech so it could be read in about 3 seconds: "The Theory of Evolution is a scientific theory that pisses off fundamentalist Christians." -Citizen12

"I deal with death through the grieving process. I do not hold any sort of notion that the person exists as a spirit, or ghost, or shade. My memories of the person are not the person. Just as footprints in the sand are not the person who made the footprints." -Eljay

"I demand extraordinary evidence for the extraordinary claim that there is a church with a "strong intellectual side". -mrbehemoth

"I do believe this nation is a great one, but I am not interested in calling down the ancient sky fathers of Mesopotamia to bolster our good fortune. The politican's right to believe in nonsense is balanced nicely by the voters' collective responsibility to elect rational agents into office." -CivilizeMe

"I do have standards. They're almost low enough to be called sub-standards, but they're there." -GrandPoohbahOfIrreverence (RDalin)

"I do not now and have never acepted the proposition that suffering is enobling. Personally,I'd like to see the moron who came up with "no pain no gain" eaten alive by wild dogs." -TSShagnasty

"I do realise there is a segment of the population that does not believe that anyone whose career ended less than a hundred years ago can be considered a genuine artist, but I don't find it that compelling. Jackson was in a different category to Beethoven, but both were true artists, both had enormous cultural impact, and Jackson wrote better lyrics." -mrbehemoth

"I do shave my head frequently, which is, in a sense, a denial of my male-pattern baldness because I'm hoping people will think I'm eccentric rather than over the hill." -Mrreindeer

"I don't accept that faith is an acceptable means of acquiring information. I don't believe in gods or the supernatural. I do believe that humanity is the source of all that is good and evil in this world, and I believe in working to make this world a heaven for all people to enjoy, not just those who know the secret password." -JAlanBrown

"I don't believe in God in the least, as the word is generally applied, but sometimes I look at some of the more heinous crap that occurs from the hand of Man AND in the world of Nature, and think: there MUST be an evil, sadistic a-hole behind all this." -Crosshatch

"I don't care how valiantly Christians struggle to love me despite the fact that I'm gay, because I don't acknowledge their right to have a problem with it." -Keepwe

"I don't debate creationism with adults for the same reason that I don't debate the existence of the Easter Bunny with adults. Your refusal to accept reality is what needs to be discussed, rather than others acting like your refusing to accept reality means reality is dubious enough for adult debate." -AtheistKeith

"I don't dismiss the possibility. I do dismiss, on grounds of lack of justification, any assertion that it is unreasonable to doubt the existence of a supreme being. Doubt is not equivalent to dismissal." -DougofCal

"I don't get it. The story says the statue has only one breast exposed but I see two giant boobs in that photo... oh, never mind, one of them's Ashcroft." -Mrreindeer

"I don't get your point. Are you saying you're a bigot, but you like black people from Lesotho?" -Jen(ADMJenny)

"I don't know about anybody else, but when I want to ward off something, I always use my personality." -benmcd

"I don't know about you, but I don't feel comfortable allowing the government to decide what kinds of indoctrination are harmful in a world where atheists are considered among the most immoral people in existence." -Rillion

"I don't know that nature "feels" anything. I just think if some insist on finding a reason in nature for homosexuality to exist, then that is one possible explanation. Of course, homosexuality is probably also nature's way of making the world more fabulous." -Boverbearing

"I don't know which is worse, postmodernism or Christian fundamentalism. They both have pretty nasty consequences for the intellect." -DougofCal

"I don't let Bronze Age blood sacrificers do my thinking for me. They knew what G-d was thinking and saw fit to deputize themselves as "His" messengers, but flush toilets never occurred to them." Crosshatch

"I don't like Adventists. I would take ten Episcopalians over an Adventist. Second Advent indeed. End of the world my ass." - Tatarize

"I don't pretend to know something you don't know. I just accept reality a little differently" -ginger09 (theist)

"I don't see what difference it makes. Preaching is all about spouting bull$hit to the gullible anyway. What does it matter if the guy making a fool of you knows he is spouting BS or not? You are still the fool." -C12

"I don't think creationists are trying to prove their point. I think they're just trying to silence the opposition. It's not about what is right, it's about who is right." -Kato

"I don't think it should be mandatory. I think enough completely ignorant people vote already, without legally requiring them to do so." -Rillion

"I don't think of Mormonism - or any form of politically meddling xtianity - as 'growing' so much as 'metastasizing'." - Michael G (ElJudioBravo)

"I don't think there's even a shred of doubt that Saddam was considering initiating contemplation of thoughts of weapons-related program activity-associated discussions." -mrbehemoth

"I emailed the new Christianity-General moderator and asked to be gagged immediately just in case I post there by accident, because I had no desire to contribute anything to the site.. No reply yet." -DeadWombat

"I find atheists a lot more tolerant of ideas than most theists even if they don't agree with them. I have never been given a pamphlet on the street by an atheist. I have never had one ring my doorbell and harangue me about why I shouldn't believe whatever it is I believe." -nganga2

"I firmly believe that when a good HIV vaccine comes to market that there's going to be huge protests by the religious right." -Tatarize

"I found a neatly cut half of a sandwich in my couch cushions one time. The lettuce and pickles were all in place. I was living by myself at the time, and had no one to blame, but I couldn’t remember ever missing part of a sandwich." - Tayana

"I friggin' can't stand someone going on about being a persecuted christian when people don't hate them for being a christian, they hate them for being a flaming hemorrhoid." -NonProphet

"I get the impression that all this talk is to try to evade the raw truth that Early Christian writers were liars and forgers." -RH3

"I give it a free pass now. Much in the same way the U.S. Senate is made up of 100 Senators, I consider the Trinitarian Christian god to be a three-comprise-the-one godhead." -Eljay

"I have a friend who got pregnant by buying Barry White's old mattress at a garage sale." -mrbehemoth

"I have almost made it all the way through Duck Soup. The funniest part to me is how nobody seems to notice the Marx brothers are actually insane and treat them like they are legitimate members of society. Sort of like Kim Jong-Il." -snoopylucy

"I have an extensive collection of weird music. I would like to see a porn movie made to polka music." -SnoopyLucy

"I have been back before the Big Bang and discovered that FC was right: there WAS no Big Bang. This universe was started because the last one exploded when two men married each other." -MrBehemoth

"I have his posters all over my bedroom walls hes just the dreemiest, cutest boi EVER! once i went to one of his masses and i sware on my dogs life and you no how much i luv my dog, but neway i sware benedict looked STRAIGHT AT ME omg i nearly died he is so gorjus catholicism roxorz!!!!!!!!!!!!" -mrbehemoth

"I have maintained for a long time now that Bush could litter the whitehouse lawn with the discarded bodies of underage male crackwhores that he had used up and would still suffer ZERO political fallout." -chip

"I have no doubt that you command respect, since based on the contents of your posts it's extremely unlikely that you could ever earn it." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"I have no interest in writing down an inventory of everything I haven’t thought of." -Tayana

"I have struggled for years to work the phrase "jerk-off" into a post and have so far failed." -ptcarnahan

"I have to be suspicious that fundamentalist Christinity has paid a far greater role in stymying scientific research in America as well as dumbing down the education system in general, because the religiosity has for several decades apparently had much greater influence than the political system has been willing to admit." -DarwiniaStill

"I have to chastise you for posting something with an iota of content. Albeit a refreshing departure from your regular posts, such posts may besmirch your finely honed reputation." -Eljay

"I have to think the world would be a better place if competition for the Darwin Awards was not so intense." -Citizen12

"I have you on ignore because your posts are equivalent to textual flatulence." -Eljay

"I heard a rumor that 2+2 equaled four. It turned out it was true, so all rumors are true." -Tatarize

"I hope I live to see the day when the Bible can be taught in public. In a mythology class, alongside Greek, Roman and Norse mythologies." -curtt

"I just can't quite understand why, with a an infinite world of things that actually exist - people have a burning need to insist that there's something "else." -Crosshatch

"I just can't stand the knee jerk reaction to criticism of anything Jewish or Israeli as anti-Semitic. It is an attempt to cut off legitimate discussion about some negative instances and occurrences with threats of labeling someone a bigot. It is unproductive and nothing but an avoidance technique." -Tony

"I just can't wait for the Lord to reward my good Christian life by giving me a pitchfork to stick into you." -J316

"I keep some pigs around and whenever I find a demon I cast it into one of the pigs and drive it over a cliff. If more people did this it would reduce the violent crime rate." -khorton

"I kind of like militant atheism. The Christians are horrified that such people dare to speak out and they scurry around like ants being stirred with a stick. It doesn't bother me in the least, and I am the nicest person you will never meet." -kerryh9

"I knew a guy with a mohawk once - he had to sleep with it between album covers with bricks flattening it out. I was impressed at his dedication to his hairstyle. His hair was green, too. Now he just looks normal and walks dogs for a living."-SnoopyLucy

"I know it doesn't matter what I hope for and what I don't, but, like a month or so back when Alabama's governor asked that everybody pray for rain, rather than presumably hiring professional raindancers... well, that made me want Alabama to never get rain." -Tatarize

"I know its bound to happen with buildings like the Burj Dubai going up. The gods are going to come and stir up our languages again. I just know it." -AtheistKeith

"I know this is evil of me, but I like seeing all-wheel drive vehicles in the ditch in icy conditions. Not if it looks like a serious accident, of course, but I like to see a big truck with cosmetic damage and an asshoIe that will be late to an appointment." -benmcd

"I like Rammstein. I just don't understand how you think Norwegian black metal happens to be related to German industrial electronica." -DarkAngel

"I like the term YouTuber when it refers to someone who has the insight and intelligence of a potato." -nganga2

"I like this metaphor... it allows me to describe my previous relationships in terms of models of cars. I've dated a couple of SUV's in my time, a few econo-boxes, and one or two hybrids." -Rillion

"I love black comedy. I think the Bush administration is hilarious." -TSShagnasty

"I love the typical Christian double-think of 'We are the majority' plus 'We are persecuted'. I, personally, have trouble holding two such contradictory thoughts at the same time without my head exploding." -Queen Maeve

"I measure success in life by the number and quality of the adventures. On my deathbed, it’s how I plan to keep score." -EasyD2

"I must say, morality based on reasoning is a lovely thing to behold. It is so much richer than the bland "God said so" rules which front as moral systems." -Citizen12

"I never exaggerate. Total accuracy or bald-faced lies, that's me." -mrbehemoth

"I never liked role-playing. I prefer mechanical, joyless sex in pitch blackness, preferably through a sheet as our Lord intended." -mrbehemoth

"I never really thought of myself as vitriolic, just really, really unpleasant to be around." -mrbehemoth

"I once considered blasphemy to be a most heinous act; nowadays, I consider blasphemy a form of poetry to be studied and mastered." -AtheistKeith

"I only bring it up because the forum is pretty down on post modernism, mostly because the recursive metaphorical themes of the intercalary transcendental actualization of the community is negatively inclined." -Tatarize

"I plead guilty as charged to being a cafeteria Christian. I'll have a generous portion of the abundant life and leave rebuke and scourging for you." -John76

"I prefer Benny Hill to Adam Sandler because Benny Hill is dead." -mrbehemoth

"I question a person's ability to "participate in another's suffering" without actually doing anything to help them. If that is compassion, then it is empty compassion....worthless and possibly even harmful. True compassion, to me, is the motivation plus action which is in keeping with the source of the motivation." -Rillion

"I really don't see much of a difference between this talking to God and someone who says he has conversations with Napoleon. The only exception being that they have a padded room for the latter." - Saint Bengel

"I really think very few people actually Really believe without evidence. They have their evidence. They rationalize some mental processes and derive their own evidence by referring to some past percieved experience. I'm not talking about the people that claim to be believers but never give it a thought. I mean the people that really pray and talk to their god and really believe. The passionate ones, I suppose." -lahatte

"I really thought we'd have come farther by now in terms of an Everyman's working cosmology. There are so many people walking around with ipods and iphones and all that stuff, thinking they're so "modern," who seem perfectly content to parrot the strange ideas of polygamist herdsmen animal sacrificers from the ox-cart era." -Crosshatch

"I respect faith in the same way I respect a hurricane. I expect it to do some damage, I wish I could prevent it, but I can't." -FrankDK

"I saw a god. He was beautiful. He was about 20 feet long, shining in the sunlight, ploughing effortlessly through the harbour. Well, technically it wasn't a god, it was a yacht, but you get my drift." -mrbehemoth

"I see an interesting symmetry here. Many believers think that anyone who thinks the Bible isn't true must not have read it. Many skeptics think that anyone who thinks the Bible is true must not have read it." - DougOfCal

"I see nature in nature. What is it about nature that makes you say you see God in nature?" -RH3

"I sometimes take an unhealthy pride in being an atheist before reminding myself that not falling for the absurd is not really much of an accomplishment." -Unregistered

"I sometimes think every book has already been written, but every year a lot more are published, so I guess not." -SnoopyLucy

"I stopped googling my nickname when all that came up were some old posts on a serious porn forum." -Deadwombat

"I suppose it's only fair that American cigarettes get in to heaven, because their beer sure isn't going to." -Flux

"I suspect that for many, the label 'logic' just denotes a big bucket that you can dump into anything that fits the category of 'persuasive' or 'reasonable' even if it's only shallowly so." - Arjaypet

"I tend to suspect that when people use the term "closed-minded" they are talking about those people who do not believe in something that they hold dear." -Anduin

"I think Creationists result from indoctrination and a lack of education in critical-thinking skills. I believe they are victims more than anything else. One has to consider that the thought processes encouraged by some types of theistic indoctrination have much greater deleterious effects on their lives than does a rejection of the theory of bio-evolution." -Citizen12

"I think his bus is so short it's collapsed into a singularity of stupid." -Jedi Ducky

"I think insurance companies should sell something like "Jesus Supplemental" policies. They would only cover situations where Jesus did not save people, their homes, their cars, etc. They could be sold at a greatly reduced rate." -Tayana42

"I think it is funny that you assume that I am sane. Embrace the insanity. Hold it close and call it 'George'." -Deadwombat

"I think it's called ASCII art. I remember the first time I heard someone talking about ASCII. I thought they were saying "a$$ key". It had me completely baffled." -SnoopyLucy

"I think it's funny that so many arguments about the morality of homosexuality forget lesbians exist. It belies the fact that many people's objection to male homosexuality lies in a distorted view of gender roles and masculinity." -Glamrawk

"I think it's like a prayer cloth. You pin it to yourself to recieve god's blessing or protection and to gain his wisdom for whatever problem you are having. So you see, there is nothing superstitious about christianity." - Jenbo47

"I think one of the cruelest things that we can do to our fellow travelers is the false offering of love to them while taking away our respect for them and their own dignity. An example of that twisted ethic might be "Love the sinner, but hate the sin". -ptcarnahan

"I think one of the heights of conflict will be when the Texas Legislature starts burning Wiccans at the stake. I've already pre-ordered bleachers to be placed around the Texas border and will be selling popcorn. Someone should make some coinage off this and it might as well be me." -MartiniStraightUp

"I think that even if belief in the supernatural, God, or whatever could be more or less done away with, there'll almost surely be someone who thinks that his team lost because he forgot to wear his lucky underpants." -Superhop

"I think that religion in particular has co-opted the truly humanistic term spirituality and made it mundane and irrelevant. Whenever someone asks me about it, I keep the conversation focused on the things that each of us has in common - we are alive here and now and we are human." -Bean

"I think the existence of morality is contingent only upon the existence of beings that conceive it... much like God." -Seth

"I think the whole world is at war with irrationality. The problem is that where the battle lines on everybody's maps seem to separate Christians from Muslims, the irrationals are the only ones fighting on either side."-Doug of Cal.

"I think there's an old copy of the bible somewhere in the attic, but I think it's probably out of date by now." -Great_Uncle_Crackhead

"I think they are all wrong. The nucleus is clearly held together by the brains of Young Earth Creationists which are very, very small and, although things gather around those brains, nothing ever penetrates them. They are perfect for holding nuclei together." -Atheist Keith

"I think you are mistaking me for you, Mr. Normative Objectivist Descriptive Relativistic Absolutist Universalist obfuscater." -Lynne (SmartFemale)

"I think you need to contemplate the fact that you are so extraordinarily stupid that expressing your ignorant views in public is an act of criminal negligence." -Mo

"I thought the main tenet of Western Buddhism is that the source of all suffering is varmints".- MrBehemoth

"I try not to think about the number of hours I spent walking up and down in the middle of the night, cuddling and singing (!) to RH4 in attempt to get him to sleep. Now it just requires 473 stories, a long discussion about the abilities of various robots, and a very large mallet." -RH3

"I understand the appeal of libertarianism and in a perfect world I'd be a libertarian, but so long as where you start life is the best predictor of where you'll end up in life, I just don't get it. If the playing field is so uneven and there are such vast differences in the opportunities people have based on the socio-economic status they're born into, it just seems like there must be a role for society as a whole to open opportunities for the disadvantaged." -Aino

"I walk on a track most days with a stick, and I always draw a little Happy Face with a "Hi!" next to it for whoever comes along later. Sometimes there will be a "Hi!" in response, sometimes it is untouched, but quite often it has been deliberately scuffed out. Once someone wrote a Bad Word. If I was a psychology major this would be my thesis." -SnoopyLucy

"I want the most true beliefs and the fewest false beliefs. If you don't want that for yourself, oh well... I hope you get gored by a unicorn." -Tatarize

"I want to add one more now, too: 'Red Barchetta' by Rush. Not only is it a great driving song, but it's a song *about* driving; but not merely driving. No, it's about driving against The Man." -Beelzehost

"I want to get a t-shirt showing Che Guevara wearing a t-shirt with my face on it." -Mrreindeer

"I want to see the Sopranos and Deadwood without all the Goddamn cussing. I think it gives children a negative impression of mobsters and whoremongers." -Icky

"I want you to try to imagine how little your opinion of me matters to me. I'll get you started: think 'Planck length' and go smaller." -Flux(55A)

"I was at a party a while back, and a woman asked me if I believed in original sin. I replied, "It depends. How original do you want to be?" -FrankDK

"I was going to write something rude, but then an uncharacteristic wave of compassion came over me and I thought "No, this one is a well-meaning simpleton. I'll let it pass." -RH3

"I was in Hollywood in '96 and saw a set of size 15 red high heeled strap up pumps in a transvestite supply shop. I nearly bought them, even though I am not gay, just so I could have them if I did turn gay, because I felt I would never get shoes like that again." -DeadWombat

"I was just admiring her ability to not only be inaccurate, but to be diametrically opposed to reality." -MrBehemoth

"I was mired in rhetoric once. I had to call Roadside Semantics to get me out". -mrbehemoth

"I was thinking of working at this soup kitchen to earn some God points and weasel my way into Heaven, but then I recalled there wasn't any heaven so I started beating some homeless guys with a chair and blew my head off." -Tatarize

"I was told that some of the residents of New Orleans went ahead and staged a mini Southern Decadence party under a banner that said, "Hey, God, you missed a spot"." -glacson

"I was wondering earlier if it was possible for you to integrate new knowledge into your worldview. It appears that you are unable to do so. I wonder why you are unable? Do you have any insight to offer concerning your inability to learn?" -Chip

"I wasn't going to [run for president], and couldn't anyway. RH4 might (he's a U.S. citizen) but I'd rather he took up something a bit more honourable, such as marine biology or pimping." -RH3

"I wasn't telling you to go to hell, I was telling you what "perish" means in the biblical context, but if you don't repent you will go to hell. Anyways, God bless you." -JTRivero

"I watched a bit of Survivor, but only because that was what the people who had control of the bong were watching." -xyz

"I went to a seminar at my lab on the topic of sparse network matricies and linear algebra. I thought it sounded like an exciting topic, but few people showed up". - Erikwoof

"I will admit that if God shows up at my door with a quarter pounder, I'm converting." -mrbehemoth

"I will follow wherever the evidence takes me. I just object to proceding in advance of the evidence." -Kate Towner

"I will never truly understand why anyone would push aside their humanity and their good sense in order to follow a religion." -C12

"I wonder when these dingbat Christians who push these types of laws are going to realize they don't need a law to enable them to perform the internal mind function that is called 'praying'." -Rev.Martini

"I would expect Atheist Barbie to be a brunette (no good reason)." -(MadScientis1)

"I would not accuse you of lying - but let us say that you are a little conservative with honesty occasionally."- EuropaXS

"I would suggest you try another method of avoiding insults, such as making an effort to not deserve them." -mrbehemoth

"I would tip my hat to you if I wore one or proclaim "Huzzah and kudoes!" loudly if I said stupid things blithely." -Ibn Tumart

"I wouldn't venture to say that there would be no wars or conflicts without religion. However, I think religion is a very common and easy excuse for hostilities and taking away one of the hooks on which the agressor can hang his hat might leave more room for the peacemakers' voices to be heard." -Fox

"I'd define 'god' as a fictional character that inspires people to pseudo-intellectual maundering and intrepid flights of equivocation."- Elmeraho

"I'd forgive you, but I don't have an only begotten son to sacrifice. Sorry." -Seth351

"I'd rather be among British people than with the finest people on earth." -SnoopyLucy

"I'd rather take comfort in the fact that, like me, other atheists typically believe that this life is all she wrote, that secular humanism is a superior philosophy to that of any religion, and that evolution satisfactorily explains the origin of life, with no need for the intervention of intelligent deities." -SmartFemale

"I'll concede that Catholic dogma has been adaptive in our co-evolution with various parasites. As to the evolutionary basis of religion, I prefer (ironically enough) the spandrel theory. But let's say religion has been adaptive in our social evolution - that is to say it's produced more people, not justice or happiness." -Adrian

"I'll deny all things supernatural except for baseball superstitions. That's how I fill my spiritual void. So I am absolutely certain there is no God, but if you mention that a pitcher is working on a no-hitter before the last pitch is thrown, you will jinx him and that's really a rotten thing to do." -Mrreindeer

"I'm a materialist. What cannot be measured or otherwise show evidence of existence may as well not exist, as it has no effect on that which does. If it did, that effect would be evidence." -Longstreet63

"I'm actually more inclined to eat octopus after finding out how smart they are, because I don't think we should give 'em an inch." -mrbehemoth

"I'm afraid I don't accept that "Christianity" is logically coherent enough that I could, with a straight face, lecture Christians on what they're "supposed" to do. I just keep my fingers crossed that they pick up on some of the more liberal, beatitudy bits and remain oblivious to the misogynist bits, of which there are plenty. Ditto for the homophobic bits and the pro-slavery bits and the anti-scientific bits." -Keepwe

"I'm always amused when I see men proclaiming "We're having a baby!" in reference to their freshly pregnant wife. I regard it in the same sense as some drunken, half-naked, sun burned Yankees fan in the bleachers saying "We won the pennant!" -Gonzo

"I'm ashamed of us - lobbying with the moderators to ban/gag someone because he's annoying...OK, very annoying...OK, extremely annoying. But what happened to the good, old-fashioned dog pile?" -Seth

"I'm assuming that English is not your native language, so I'll eschew comment on your syntax." - FRANKDK

"I'm beginning to suspect that religious people who compare God with fathers must have had really crappy fathers." -RH3

"I'm getting rather tired of Christian arm chair physicists waving their hands around in the air, muttering about the "mysteries of QM" and invoking a similar mystery for their god. If God were understood as well as quantum mechanics, we would have already miniaturized him and put him in a device to carry around on our wrists." -Ozy666

"I'm more interesting in discussing the morality of the god depicted in the Bible. For example, I find discussing the morality of forcing rape victims to marry their rapists, of cutting off women's hands for rescuing their husband by hitting an attacker in the groin, or of forcing wives to drink magic adultery-detection cursed potions if their husband becomes jealous. I just find these conversations more interesting than tedious discourses about the fact that the Bible has abysmal historical value or the fact that it is replete with contradictions." -AtheistKeith

"I'm not bragging or anything, because, as I like to say, "I'm just a sock puppet with the Universe up my ass, but even as a kid I asked questions like: "Where did 'God' stand when he made everything?" -Crosshatch

"I'm not judging you. I'm just telling you that God says you're going to hell". - chip

"I'm not prepared to be offended by anyone expressing their personal beliefs, even if they are government officials. They can say they believe in ghosts too, so long as I'm not required to do anything about it. Proclaiming false beliefs that have no consequence isn't rude, it's embarrassing." -Roylatham

"I'm really starting to wonder if you're only an atheist because you fail to understand religion in the first place. I mean, it doesn't seem like you have the logical facilities to reason your way out." -Tatarize

"I'm sorry, but I can see absolutely no value in unprovable/unfalsifiable BS like solpisism or postmodernism. If YOU want to go around thinking that you might possibly be a small blue soapdish, be my guest. But please don't waste my time by trying to get me to join you."-chip

"I'm sure I must have said something interesting since I've been here. But at the moment I can't think what it was." Kate Towner

"I'm surprised this isn't more obvious to more people: you come across a watch in the forest, and you know it's designed, because it's so unlike the rocks and trees in the forest...therefore the rocks and trees must be designed." -mrbehemoth

"I'm toying with the notion that God is a 400-pound yellow canary." -mymallandnew

"I'm with the others who say that atheism is a default status one acquires when theism fails us. We don't choose to become atheists, it is just a by-product of discovering that there aren't any gods." -AtheistKeith

"I've always wanted to see a tanker filled with human waste crash into a pokemon factory and explode." -TSShagnasty

"I've become convinced that the secret to such a near-utopia would be the universal recognition that all humans share a common bond of humanity that transcends more superficial cultural differences." -smartfemale

"I've been feeling a whole lot of that lately. It's gotten so that when it comes to engaging fundies, the shine ain't worth the spit." -chip

"I've found kids have an amazing talent for pushing you so far that you magically become a complete tyrant." -MrBehemoth

"I've had a can of Spam for months now! Really I do. I just haven't found the right moment to eat it yet." -MaxHarper

"I've had my moments, but a few people have gone through plenty of hurting on my account. As to which way the scale is going to tip, I'm the last person who should try to judge. I'm still just trying to give it my best shot, which is all that any of us can do." -DougofCal

"I've lost count of the number of things I've memorized." -Tatarize

"I've never had much use for philosophy or its positions. The Kama Sutra has much better ones." -Gonzo

"I've read most of the bible, in bits and pieces over the years. It's really terrible and nonsensical writing. Sitting down and trying to read the whole thing would just give me more reason to not even consider it a decent story." - Mags

"I, for one, appreciate your reducing your font size. You're still a raving lunatic, but at least you're not raving so loudly anymore. That's progress." -Queen Maeve

"If a fundie is cut in half, which half won't shut up?" -mrbehemoth

"If believers and skeptics alike could ever get past the fallacious arguments that they both love so much, then just maybe they could figure out which, if either, side has any valid arguments left." -DougOfCal

"If by 'stir things up' you mean 'elicit uproarious laughter,' well, you've stirred things up." -Best Peasant (Curtt)

"If evolution has shown that many of our physical faults are the product of chance and are not reflective of our value as people, has it not elevated the moral condition of man? Does liberating ourselves from the stupid superstition that illness is proof of a lack of character not have great moral value?" -Aino

"If fear of punishment is the only restraint on your conduct, then you are morally deficient. You should study Confucianism, Stoicism, or Buddhism, instead of Christianity. They might develop a little moral sense in you." -RH3

"If God can do anything, can He make a copyright that He can't infringe?" - SnoopyLucy

"If God set up the natural order, and he is a moral agent, all the natural evil is his fault and is actually moral evil. There is no really popular justification for God's cruelty and those excuses which have been offered concentrate on the effects on the human race. Christian theologians seem not to care about the suffering of non-humans." -RH3

"If I didn't already think the Catholic hierarchy are the most evil bastards on the planet, I might start thinking they are the most evil bastards on the planet." -C12

"If I said that God told me you were wrong, how would we figure out which one of us was crazy?" -Rev. Martini

"If I want science I'll read science books. And if I want a badly hobbled together mish mash of the worst of the Jewish religion and various pagan traditions with some rather amusing erotic poetry here and there... I'll read the bible." -maxharper

"If I were a genius I'd invent a way to turn posts like that into something useful, then at least I could spread it round the garden and maybe get some decent roses this year." -RevDave

"If I were a sadist I would advocate making illegal something totally innocuous, like... peanut butter, say, and see how long it takes before it becomes identified as a "dangerous element" that people deal on the streets for outrageous amounts of money and kill each other to get, and people start saying "You can't legalize peanut butter - look at all of the crime associated with it!"- Rillion

"If I were God, I'd ensure that everyone used the subjunctive." -Mo

"If it wasn't for people like you who think it's wrong, homosexuality wouldn't be any more awkward than being left-handed is." -LtPowers

"If it were true that God will punish me for not believing in him, I still wouldn't gamble on it because the very game itself is appalling. I would no more swear allegiance to such a God than I would swear allegiance to a dictator who promised my safety if I will help him exterminate his enemies." -JAlanBrown

"If it's all about belief: anything is possible, quite a lot probable and the silliest is certain." -Georg

"If language evolves, where are the transitional dictionaries?" -mrbehemoth

"If liking SpongeBob will make me gay, then so be it. Take me to Bikini Bottom and make me gay." -Beelzehost

"If Newt becomes President, we most surely would be eft." -Best Peasant

"If not for theists, I might well just be a weak atheist about the position. The assumption demands that every theist in the world be constantly wrong. And really the belief has paid huge dividends and constantly finds itself accurately predicting the failures of huge groups of people." -Tatarize

"If one does the right thing often enough, then one is going to be ripped off every once in a while. Anyone whose personal policy is to guarantee that never happens is not being charitable enough." -DougofCal

"If simple faith were a health benefit, the bible belt of the U.S. would not have the country's overall highest rates of obesity, heart disease, high cholesterol, and diabetes." -Flux

"If someone makes stupid and idiotic statements, they deserve to be insulted. And degraded. (And vilified and laughed at). It's only right, and I do so believe in justice." -gclason

"If the whole 'what the word "gay" means' discussion escapes them, just throw in the towel and say 'Well, you know, Jesus was gay. He had twelve male friends, they ate of his body... gay. Obviously gay. Flaming gay. Even more gay than Elton John -- Jesus was Liberace gay'." -Eljay

"If then, your method is a useful means of determining the truth, please tell me some great mystery that was solved by faith, sans evidence." -AtheistKeith

"If there is a dog poop - pornonography connection, I hope to go the grave without hearing about it." -SnoopyLucy

"If there is a hell, it is staffed not by pyrotechnicians, but by philosophy majors." -AtheistKeith

"If there were a God, George W. would vomit on someone important during the big G8 banquet." -Mrreindeer

"If there's anything the NRA has taught me, it's that automatic weapons don't kill people; atheists kill people." -benmcd

"If we liked talking to angry people, we'd pray." -mrbehemoth

"If we're going to start litigating lawsuits for the coyote ugly types, then, let's face it: the entire state of Mississippi may as well be in court." -Reshuffle

"If you actively maintain delusions, then you are delusional. It doesn't matter if only one person believes the delusions or everyone on earth. A delusion does not suddenly become a truth if only enough people believe it." -AtheistKeith

"If you are saying that I am a "fundamentalist" atheist, then you are mistaken. It is impossible to be a fundamentalist atheist because there are no fundamentals to fundament over." -Lahatte

"If you end up saying "God has no objective purpose, God just IS" - and at some point in the concentric circles of meaning, you must then understand why atheists like myself say "Life has no objective purpose - life just IS." -Mo

"If you find yourself unable to determine whether you exist, I think you might want to take a few less "soft subjects" next semester. Maybe take some business courses or something." -AtheistKeith

"If you read the Bible you'd know that marriage is between one man, several women, various concubines, and the occasional dead brother's wife." -Tatarize

"If you really think that your morals came from the bible, consider this - the morals you have and the morals from other Christians from other times and cultures are vastly different. I'm not talking about minor changes, but on important issues like women's rights, slavery, war, murder, child rearing and other primal issues. Differences of night and day. And they all had the same book that they claimed had their moral guidelines." -MaxHarper

"If you say you can produce scripture that says the sky is blue, producing scripture that talks about the color of the ocean doesn't count." -C12

"If you want to see out of control emotions from men, all you need do is attend a sporting event, a political contest, or a war." -Rillion

"If you want to think that a man lived in a whale or that Noah rounded up polar bears and penguins and Cocker Spaniels, that's your business, but do you really expect people to believe that stuff who aren't afraid not to?" -Crosshatch

"If you're going to be an inerrantist, you've got to know how to figure out when the Bible means just what it says and when it means whatever you can read between the lines." -DougOfCal

"If you're talking about an omnipotent god who loves all of humanity and wants all of humanity to know that he loves them, just open your eyes to the world around you. The evidence of that god's nonexistence is everywhere, and it has been everywhere throughout all human history." - DougofCal

"If your faith is so weak that you have to shield your child from the very idea that some people think differently, then it's time for you to closely examine what you believe." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"If your God depends on the modern day version of belief in a flat earth, it's doomed. These are not the Dark Ages - at least for anyone who dares to think." -Mo

"If your opponent doesn’t know any Greek (and he usually doesn’t) you can demonstrate that you do, and thereafter adopt the manner of a professor debating with an unlettered peasant whose boots are coated with agricultural by-product.Not fair, of course, but terribly satisfying. Your smugness quotient goes up from 'objectionable' to 'absolutely intolerable'." -RH3

"In '91 I went on a business trip to Saudi Arabia. The visa application had an entry for religion. I entered "none". The next day, my supervisor informed me that I had become Baptist." -Seth351

"In addition, the evil perpetrated by Abrahamic religions is such that once doubt about their god enters their brain, the good person, the ethical person, the kind, caring person is forced to see them as distasteful." -xolo

"In America we don't have any special beetles for our dung. Our dung just lays there without a beetle being interested in rolling it into a ball." -SnoopyLucy

"In case you haven't figured it out this may not be the most comfortable place to broadcast harebrained ideas. We will pick the corpse of your credibility clean." -C12

"In fact, I think faith properly understood is a powerful argument for strong atheism with respect to the God of Christianity. I don't happen to believe in the existence of a God, but if there is a benevolent God who has escaped my notice, I have faith in Him not to do anything so unutterably stupid as send me important information concerning my salvation through an evangelical cult such as Christianity whose members are confused about the difference between faith in God and faith in Christians." -Keepwe

"In many parts of the world, if I speak to a cat in English, it pays no attention, but if I use Welsh or the local language (if I know the local language) it ignores me in the way cats ignore you when they want you to know that they are ignoring you." -RH3

"In real life I don't often meet Christians, but I think that's not so much because I'm an atheist as it is because I live in England. We've pretty much been there, done it with the whole religion thing, and everything seemed to get better around the time the real nutters left on the Mayflower." -RevDave

"In short, you're no different from every new-age crackpot (paging Deepak Chopra) who claims their irrational beliefs are scientific because they're explainable by 'quantum mechanics', even though, in a similar excuse, 'the specific details are not known'." -Flux(55A)

"In the big scheme of things, it wasn't much of a sacrifice. One bad weekend; less trauma than the little girl who was kidnapped and raped over years by her father in Austria. Less trauma than hundreds and thousands of people in the world every year throughout history." -Readzalot

"In the end, I suppose that is the reason that religious leaders cannot, absolutely cannot empower their congregations with the capacity for freethought. They don't want it. They go to church to receive a specific service - conviction, catharsis, and the irrational reassurance that the money and time they are committing to the church will ensure that the pain and struggle they encounter in this life will have been worth it, rewarded in an afterlife of eternal reward and guiltless ecstasy. If they don't receive this service from one minister, they will go shopping for another." -cyberdigital

"In the end, if the nation's integrity survives, this all might turn out to have been like getting a case of the measles. The disease hurt, but it is nice to have the antibodies it engendered." -Citizen12

"In the spirit of finding something nice to say about everyone, I do note that, at the very least, you're honest enough to admit you're a closed-minded ignoramus." -Flux

"In this, the Church is responsible for crimes against humanity, as well as the working class, which are unforgivable. It is the duty of all moral human beings to oppose such an institution, and even to dance on its ashes." -DarkAngel

"Indulging in self-delusional and cherished fantasy saves no one. It is an abdication of responsibility and reality, and a surrender to irrationality and psychosis." -Eljay

"Interesting that several of us seem to approve of the idea of blowing people up. We just differ a bit about whom to blow up." -RH3

"Ironically, I would think if a god of some sort actually existed, atheism brings one closer to god, as it is very evident to me that this god does not want mankind to know it exists, and therefore atheists are one step closer to understanding god's grand plan." -jellomold2

"Is 'Christianity' under attack in the U.S.? No, just Christian privilege." -Flux(55A)

"Is it possible to care less than not at all about other peoples' sex lives or lack thereof? That's my position. Not caring at all doesn't quite describe or equal the intensity of my indifference." -Crosshatch

"Isn't it strange that the same people who claim to be creations in the image of their god are those who usually find the bodies their god supposedly created somehow bad and shameful?" -NonProphet

"It actually concerns me that, on my deathbed, saying "oh jesus" due to pain might be interpreted as a last minute conversion. Screw that. I must remember to use the F-word as my preferred expletive." - Postmodernhousewife

"It broke my heart into one piece when Bush left office." -AtheistKeith

"It depends on what you mean by caring for number one. If you treat your fellow humans as if their concerns and feelings were of no importance to you, your life will suck." -DougofCal

"It does seem odd that people accept God but quibble over degrees of nonsense. It's like buying an imaginary car you'll never see, but debating endlessly what color is best and whether or not you paid enough." - Tatarize

"It doesn't matter, in the philosophy, if ideas are racist or fascist. Ideas have to stand on their own merit and to fail on their merit, not be forbidden because 'we don't like them'. I may be against spreading those ideas 'on the streets', but not against examining them in classes and universities". -Grahor

"It has become apparent to me that people can believe that gods are real while knowing very nearly nothing. In fact, I have noticed that being in the state of knowing very nearly nothing seems to be fertile ground for belief in the existence of gods." -Citizen12

"It has been just as easy for bad actors to justify their actions by non-religious justifications as religious, and I cannot see that the wholesale adoption of atheism would change this." -Streiche

"It has occurred to me that religion and morality have as much to do with each other as vision and eye color." -JAlanBrown

"It is (unfortunately) a given that when we atheists tell Christians that we don't believe in their god we're being offensive, but when they tell us we're sinful and corrupt and bound for eternal damnation they're just doing it because they love us". -VeryIrreverentRichard (RDalin)

"It is a sad thing that the idea of changing your position in the light of new evidence is so universally considered to be a bad thing and a sign of weakness." -Fluffy

"It is just the way I look at it. Faith is an affliction. I don't know why people go on about how awesome it is. It is just a cancerous version of trust. Trust can be good, but faith is diseased trust." -AtheistKeith

"It is probably the most ironic statement ever to state that God and religion unite us. Yes, they do unite people--mostly when they want to kill other people." -Nazrani

"It is so amusing to me that your whole point is that science is based on evidence and that theism is based on a lack of evidence. Wherever there is a lack of evidence, it must be God! Perhaps instead of pointing out gaps in scientific knowledge, you could show us some evidence that God actually exists?" -BillZBub

"It is the analogy with Christianity. Sin is the cancer. Jesus is the cure. But who tells you Jesus is the cure? The same people who tell you that sin is the cancer!" - RH3

"It is true that, in many Latin American cultures, being handed a severed human arm is considered bad luck." -mrbehemoth

"It just occurred to me that the reason experts on god don't agree on anything is because - obviously - there's more than one god. In fact, there's probably (at least) one god for every expert. So much for monotheism." - VeryIrreverentRichard

"It must be interesting to live in your head and experience the world as a series of talking points utterly unconnected by logic." - Keepwe

"It occurs to me that someone very cynical with little or no shame could make it very big in television." -Flux

"It seems inarguable to me that the thousands of hours you apparently have devoted to making sense of your Bronze Age and medieval ancestors represents time that you have NOT spent learning about everything that every other civilized person on earth finds relevant and worthwhile." -Crosshatch

"It seems that God only wants to save people who are prepared to believe things which appear to be nonsense. Why would a super intelligent God be so prejudiced against intelligent people?" -RH3

"It seems that the group that most eschews reason is the group that hates the most. It seems that it is reason, rather than religion, which most encourages people to follow the Golden Rule." -Citizen12

"It seems your ability to get things wrong is surpassed only by your ability to get things very wrong." -RevDave

"It stops being amusing after a few years. Theists seem to be immune to logic. They try to use it for their own ends, but don't feel obligated to believe any valid conclusions drawn from such logic that they don't endorse." -Tatarize

"It surprises me how many otherwise intelligent people come here all fired up to tell us that Atheism is just another form of the unfounded belief that it rejects. I don't believe in "God" ....period. I don't make any claims about the existence or non-existence of things I can't prove. Simple, isn't it?" -Crosshatch

"It takes the collective will of women on this planet to influence the weather." -John7362 (crazy theist)

"It would almost be worth the trouble of getting divorced and going to Canada just to get married by a gay Elvis." -RH3

"It would be a bit like finding fossilized rabbits in the Precambrian. I'm sorry, no offense to J.B.S. Haldane, but I'd sooner believe in time traveling rabbits than the falseness of evolution." -Tatarize

"It's a joy to me as well. Talking about copulative verbs puts me in a state of conjugal bliss." -mrreindeer

"It's a little humbling to realize life on this planet is pretty much based on poop." -SnoopyLucy

"It's a pity that all those mental gymnastics you go through to arrive at your tortured 'conseptualizations' don't do anything to improve your mental fitness." -chip

"It's a pretty depressing thought; to only live on in memory through a quote displaying your sheer stupidity. Note to self: be more witty." -Mags

"It's a shame that you've dedicated so much time answering a post for which an adequate response may be found inside any random box of Cracker Jack." -Dingo

"It's a slippery slope. One day we're banning good old fashioned funeral heckling, but then that leads to..what? No more dragging bloody corpses through the street?" -Beelzehost

"It's amazing how much this sounds like people of faith trying to explain how their faith is backed up by evidence." -dlove5duke

"It's an opinion I cannot help but hold. The second I read it at university my very being rebelled with intellectual revulsion at it. If Anselm's proof is actually a proof, then everything I know is wrong." -Mrbehemoth

"It's curious that the author [of Genesis] seems to think the sun was just an additional light in an already light-filled day, and the natural conclusion is not that he was speaking figuratively but that he was full of shit." -Keepwe

"It's funny when they start quoting scarier and scarier bible verses about what god is going to do to us if we don't believe. It's like when somebody starts shouting at a person who doesn't speak English." -Twsh

"It's hard to stay deflated by reality for long if you have an internalized certainty that you're in a personal relationship with the biggest honcho of all, and HE'S madly in love with you. He'll be waiting with outstretched arms when you kick the breathing habit, and off you'll go to where it can't get any better because it's always as great as it gets....forever. It makes swallowing a bunch of bizarre ancient Science Fiction backstory seem like a pretty small price to pay." -crosshatch

"It's hilarious that a Christian can reel off a list of terrible deaths, and yet claim that the worst of them all was the guy who didn't actually die, and knew that he wouldn't all along." -mrbehemoth

"It's not 'name calling', it's a statement of fact. Anyone who says 'Atheists have a god, and it's Satan' is pure and complete uneducated idiot. I am sorry, but a fact is a fact. We can dance around it, we can name it fancy pc names like "mentally handicapped", we can blame society for this, but the fact remains: you are an idiot." -Grahor

"It's not nerve to resist social conventions invented by religious folks to protect religion. If you believe complete nonsense you'll be called on it in every realm - politics, society, art, literature, sports. But religion... oh, no. We've got magical respect for people who walk away from the wheel of a bus and pretend Jesus is driving." -Tatarize

"It's not that I don't want to see you atheists suffer. The fantasy about whacking you on the ass as you try to get out of that lake of fire really excites me." -John76

"It's pretty easy to rip through a tissue-paper argument with only religious arguments in favor of the proposition. If there are only religious arguments for something, there are no good arguments for it." -Tatarize

"It's proud of everything. Proud of being smug, proud of being obnoxious, proud of being ignorant, proud of being enslaved to an insane death-cult, proud of the spontaneous orgasms experienced with every daydream about atheists slitting their wrists because someone put a Christmas tree up outside Kmart." -mrbehemoth

"It's really amazing how often theists of a certain stripe post links to articles which contradict their claims. You'd think they would first get someone to read the article and explain it to them." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"It's so sadly unsurprising that you see truth in astrology. You wouldn't recognise logic or critical thinking if it leapt down your throat and chewed on your appendix." -Mo

"It's the pope, it's terry schaivo, its Jerry, neck and neck in a race to the death, and wait, its Johnny cochrane up the outside in a surprise win!!" -DeadWombat

"It's why I always question what should be the obvious absurdity of the so-called Judeo-Christian tradition. When you shave off the necessarily fake ecumenical veneer, it's not a wild mischaracterization to see one side thinking something like, "Poor, misguided bastards don't know a messiah when they see one" and the other side thinking, "Poor, misguided bastards don't know a false messiah when they see one." - Crosshatch

"Jesus is one of those fervently admired and (supposedly) imitated people who people are very happy not to have around. That way they can claim he supports them without being proved wrong. Dying was the best move he ever made, similar to the way prices for pictures go up when an artist dies." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"Jesus of Nazareth was only included as a historical figure when Christians started to write history." -Seeker

"Judaism and Christianity are no different in that a moral person will find in them the moral guidelines to which he already adheres, and an immoral person will find in them justifications for his immorality." -C12(Citizen12)

"Just because I'm not buying what you're selling doesn't mean I'm selling something else. Atheism isn't a religion". -Tatarize

"Just legalise terrorism. Leave behind the stupid moral ditty. Everyone's doin' it. It's the in thing. Add public funding, better arms, bigger special effects, and once the fight goes out of everyone, we'll all go home. If there is one." -Nazrani

"Just remember that, most times, when someone talks about "truth," they're talking about the point where they decided to stop learning". -rplourde

"Kind of ironic, eh? You claim the book that calls you a liar is 100% true." -chip

"Learning morality from books makes as much sense as learning how to swim from them..." -DarkAngel

"Let me break the news to you: the old boy has been a corpse for ages, refrigerated or not. He was a corpse when he turned a blind eye to the systemic child abuse in his churches and when he turned a blind eye to the civil rights of gays. The only thing more frozen in time than his body was his vision." -reshuffle

"Life has a meaningful purpose, and better yet, it's customizable. You get to make it yourself." -Tatarize

"Life is a process of giving up one thing after another. What a nuisance it is, but worth it. Strike a balance between what you like to do and what it's wise to do. Eat your veggies and keep moving." -Prismatic

"Life is too short to get mad at all the lies people believe." -benmcd

"Like most people, Christians prefer being comfortable and secure to being correct. Their religion gives them that illusion, so they have little or no interest in finding what the truth is, nor in admitting uncomfortable truths when they encounter them." -AtheistKeith

"Little white lies vs. harsh truths both are time and place dependent. Someone proud of their flat and off-key performance at a party, I tell them it was lovely. That same person later decides they're going to quit their job, blow a big chunk of their savings or otherwise jeopardize their finances on recording and promoting their own album, then it's time for the unvarnished truth that their singing, if it can be called that, rapes ears." -Flux55A

"Living a cloistered religious life is to me a warping of one's humanity. I would not go so far as to say that such a person can't have wisdom to impart to the rest of us, but my immediate reaction is suspicion." -RDalin

"Logic will prevent you from stepping off that roof. Faith will encourage you to try. Which is of more benefit is obvious to anyone who is not stupified by faith." -Chip

"Look, things happen. You bring in the girls and the dogs for a few snapshots of naked arabs masturbating and all of a sudden people are talking torture." -Prismatic

"Man, now I want a super karate monkey death car." -Ibn Tumart

"Maybe a good answer to the "no atheists in foxholes" argument is "yeah, it's hard to have war without religion." -MrReindeer

"Maybe he's afraid to descend into a pit of despair with all the rest of the atheists so his mind won't let him go there. He doesn't understand that it's really not that bad. That "empty" space is quickly filled with family and work and real life concerns and the realization that those are the things which filled that space all along." -Twsh

"Maybe he's one of Mary Baker Eddy's Christian Science majors. Where the term "science" means "not science"." -Eljay

"Maybe I should grab a hammer and smash away half my cerebral cortex. Then I might have a chance to find my way to the creationists' heaven." -Mo

"Me, a high priest? Well, maybe - if you left off the 'priest' part..." -chip

"Mind you, despite all attempts of my parents and society, I, myself, do not share the opinion, that showing up at a job is benefitial for me. In fact, I think such behaviour is beneath me, so, it's hard for me to be an advocate and propagandist of such a life style." -Grahor

"Mind you, everyone has very different understanding of "greater good". And I wouldn't agree on your definition of "greater good" if it does not include me somewhere out there in a space yacht with my harem." -Grahor

"Moral actions and principles are not delegated. Moral actions and principles are those that respect the rights and freedoms of others, and of society in general. All morality stems from that, and that alone." -lahatte

"More advanced = less biblical. Every step you take toward morality is a step you take away from the Bible." -Tatarize

"Most atheists do good, not because of some belief that a god will reward or punish us, but because by doing so, it strengthens our family, our community, our world - and that makes it a better place to live." -Readzalot1

"Most of those we grade as being incompetent at life aren't, which only enhances our desire for them to be incompetent at life." -Saint Bengal

"Most of what you say is genuinely quotable; it's just quotable in a men's-room-stall kind of way." -Reshuffle

"Most people shrink back from deep thinking. That's why they're referred to as 'the masses'." -Crosshatch

"Most single-celled organisms do not engage in sexual activity. They just split in half and ask themselves "Was it good for me as well?" - Seeker

"Much as you want to think 'I don't know' is some sort of victory for your side, it isn't; it's just what science says before it goes and finds out." -longstreet

"Murder is when you enter someone's house with a weapon in your hands and kill the owner. Killing is when you first declare war, then enter someone's house with weapon in your hands and kill the owner... Huge difference, you know." -Grahor

"My body tends to run faster than my mind. I arrive everywhere early, but end up just making grunting noises." -mrbehemoth

"My friends and I save ours (blasphemy) for Christmas Day, where in the evening we attempt to break all of the Seven Deadly Sins. We always eat 3/4 lb burgers at Casino el Camino for gluttony and the rest then just come naturally." -Leslie (lekkermeisje)

"My official opinion was to declare you retarded. You can attempt to rectify the mistakes that lead to this conclusion or just have this conclusion reiterated." -Tatarize

"My own maxim here is to stay careful about keeping my "hate list" or "don't-like list" always smaller than the list of "likes" and a lot smaller than my list of "care-nots". It's good for one's own mental health and makes better companions." -Georg (Empiricus)

"My point was that these claims are intoxicating. To believe something by sheer force of will in the face of contrary evidence can give one quite a kick. My point was that there is a real pleasure for many in seeking out and manufacturing evidence of God's will and actions." -BranchingStream

"My primate ancestors evolved and all I got was this stupid tool using ability and gigantic brain." -Longstreet

"My statement was: why present the message, if it is so critical, in such a manner that could overshadow it? Would you want your local weather person to tell you that a really bad storm is coming in plain and simple language or in the form of a haiku or sonnet?" -SavannahKing

"My uncle passed away in Mexico. We're all atheist and didn't care to pick up his body. The plan was to have him cremated there, but we didn't care enough about the ashes. So we didn't bother with pretty much anything." -Tatarize

"My will is specific. I should be kept alive indefinitely while draining my family of all they have. There should be fifteen visits to the state court and ten to the federal courts. The Sureme court should view my still palpitating corpse. The arrival of Jesse Jackson in a stretch limo to rend his garments would also be a nice touch. In short, I want a three-ring circus." -mymallandnew

"No one deserves mercy. If you deserve it, it's not mercy." -mrbehemoth

"No wonder you spew words the way you do: You are so full of yourself you've triggered your gag reflex." -elmeraho

"No, but I have these smart pills you can buy. No, they are not rabbit poos, they are smart pills. Yeah, they taste like rabbit poos, but they are smart pills. Ok, they are rabbit poos, but see, you ony had to eat five to get smart enugh to realise that." DeadWombat

"No, first you have to believe that sins actually exist, then you have to hate yourself for even being born and therefore sinful, which then opens your brain up for indoctronation into a bizzare set of rituals and instructions that look suspiciously like a copy of the social rules of a nomadic agrarian tribe." -Fluffy

"No, I just thought you didn't know you were an idiot, so I took it upon myself to inform you. If you already knew, however, I apologise for the presumption." -Flux

"No, no-one here will trust you because what you posted is not science. It's like some cargo-cult misunderstanding based on a 1930s' popular science magazine with half the pages missing." -RevDave

"No-one gets killed with Swiss Army Knives. By the time you have sorted out the blade from the magnifying glass, the bottle opener, the tweezers, and the thing for getting stones out of horses' hooves, your intended victim has run away." -RH3

"Nobody ever said making definitive judgments on the personal qualities of other human beings you don't really know was going to be easy." -mrbehemoth

"Not all "bad things" are born directly of the Books. But some indisputably are. Why ignore and rationalize and make excuses for them? Worst of all, why tolerate them in this day and age?" -JQHiggins

"Notice the 1st, 3rd, and last letters in "googled" spell God, but it only works in the past tense. Otherwise it's Goe. I'm pretty sure this is important, but I'm not sure why." -Tayana42

"Now I find it odd that you demand the impossible for that which you do not believe, yet for what you do believe you do so without a shred of evidence, reason or logic." -Eljay

"Now I have no direct knowledge of what the writer REALLY meant, but for 2000 years the church of God, the body of Christ, the congregation of the faithful, has interpreted these words to mean that if you don't kill heretics you become guilty of their sins. And they have done their killing secure in the knowledge that it was what God wanted." -gclason

"Now I sometimes think that after they burn me and hang my brother a black pall of ignorance and barbarism will fall over the world." - RH3

"Now if you ask me over a beer why I don't like catholicism in particular among other religions (none of which I like) I might say "Because catholicism can make an intelligent person act like an idiot." -Letxbex

"Now you might question why a self-admittedly not-so-intelligent person dares to call others stupid. Well, I do not need to be a hen to know when an egg is foul." -Empiricus

"Now, I understand that you cannot understand why anyone would be so altruistic without the threat of a god and eternal damnation hanging over them, but don't project your ethical deficiencies onto others." -Mo

"Obama gets the (Nobel) prize for fishing diplomacy out of the trash can and using it again. For that to be possible, someone had to put it in there in the first place. It's a bit like the implied message of opposition to disease which results from awarding a Nobel prize for medicine." -MarkBoyd

"Obviously all the plumbing (in heaven) empties into hell. It just wouldn't be fundie paradise without being able to sh!t on someone." -Rev.PJ

"Occasionally an elected official will do something she/he campaigned on, but not usually. The Tea Baggers are quite frightening because they actually want to accomplish the stupidity that they had to say in order to get elected." -AtheistKeith

"Oddly, that's a common claim but wrong. Anybody who says that typically means to say that they aren't Jesusy enough. The truth is far easier than that. They cite the NT quite often and Jesus isn't as Jesusy as people say he is." -Tatarize

"Of course. I rarely listen to anything else. Metallica, Anthrax, and Bach... the trinity, as far as I'm concerned." -mrbehemoth

"Oh my Cod, I can speak Greek! AEIOU AEIOU AEIOU!" -Deadwombat

"Oh, come on! Try to put a bit more enthusiasm into your indifference." -RH3

"Oh, come on. A bit of chanting "Namu Admida Butsu" won't do you any harm. Just stay away from the "nam myoho renge kyo" stuff." -RH3

"Oh, come on. What's wrong with poking fun at the Vatican and some good old-fashioned masturbation?" -Seeker

"Oh, I have a comic about looking up web comics, but under the circumstances, it'd be a tad recursive." -Flux

"Oh, I know there are plans to create God. I went to the townhall and saw the proposal drawings on display there. It was very nice. Too bad that the naming committee used all the budget." -SavannaKing

"Oh, no. Don't be looking to the real world for evidence of spiritual advancement. You have to look within. Everything you need to know about anything is right there. It's the only way to know nothing and yet claim ultimate intellectual superiority. Books are for standing on when you can't reach the top shelf." -Twsh

"Oh, so you don't care if innocent defenseless children are exposed to sex right smack bang in the middle of their exposure to violent crime and hard drug use? You monster." -mrbehemoth

"Oh, stop being so tolerant and reasonable. You've been a member of this forum long enough to know what is expected of Christians here." -RH3

"Oh, surely not! Islam is THE religion of peace, love, teddy bears, and tranquility. We can't judge the whole religion based on millions of bad apples." -AtheistKeith

"Oh, that's right, God is anything not fully defined. So God is undefinable... how do you know... because we defined it as anything we can't define. What if you finally define that? Well, then it wasn't God afterall." - Tatarize

"Oh, you've done a great job of spreading your message. What you have utterly failed to do is present one good reason why anyone should think the message originated with God." - DougofCal

"OK, let me explain something... just because you are an atheist doesn't mean you make rational arguments." - MaxHarper

"Old lags like me see a fair bit of consistency in U.S. foreign affairs. The U.S. consistently supports any regime, no matter how brutal and repressive, so long as that regime seems to promote U.S. interests and/or supports Israel." -RH3

"On the plus side, I now know that a Pangalactic Gargleblaster is called a Pangalaktische Donnergurgler in German. I shudder to think what it is called in Hungarian." -RH3

"Once someone comes bearing the argument from incredulity, they've pretty much hit intellectual bottom." -Flux55A

"Once you accept that bible can contain errors, nothing stops god from being one of those errors." -Grahor

"Once you accept that homo sapiens is just one of millions of species on this planet that have co-evolved for millenia, these "mysteries" vanish. All that is left to determine are the mechanisms of their inter-relationships. And no, learning about such things does not make a rose smell less sweet." -Mo

"Once you accept that the bible can contain errors, nothing stops god from being one of those errors." -Grahor

"One can talk to atheists. Fundamentalists, regardless of stripe, are unreachable. They have god on their side, after all." - Marie(MarieSiduri)

"One might almost say that the dawning of a common, albeit not necessarily universal belief in a bunch of mumbo-jumbo is how civilizations are born." -AtheistKeith

"One of the consistent features of the relations between different denominations and indeed different religions is that they nearly all implicitly sign up to the idea that any religion is better than none at all." -Fox

"One of the worst things that I will say about people who are so mean, jerky, or otherwise really awful that I can't think of any other way to express my feelings about them is that I've added them to the list of people who make me wish I was still Christian so I could tell them to go to Hell and actually mean it." -Bascilla

"One school district was told to teach creation science, so they went to add it to their curriculum. They failed to find a single fact about creation science. Apparently half the time is to be spent teaching biology and the other half with their hands over their ears shouting "lalalalalalalalalalalalalalala"." -Tatarize

"Only those who demand Freedom and Liberty are We the People; those who demand universal healthcare are The Enemies of The People. If, say, purely for example, that 97% want universal healthcare and 3% want the Free Market - that means that 3% are The People and 97% are the Enemies of The People. That's how ideology works." - Grahor

"Open your video with some abstracted vaginal image, wrap youself in a rug from Pier One and you too can start your own religion!" -arjaypet

"Over the years many possible purposes for our existence have occurred to me. Trouble has been, I can never think of any good reason to believe that our existence has any purpose." -DougofCal

"Overall, I think "the authorities" would find me to be a nerd. Any agents of the government would probably just give me a wedgie and leave." -Flux

"P.R.A.Y.E.R. - Preaching Rambling Absurdity Yielding Enraged Retorts". -Eljay

"Painting pictures of zebras with Hawaiian shirts might lead to a cure for herpes, if those stupid scientists would just give it a chance. But nooooooo, they give up after 300 paintings." -Rev. Martini

"People are gay. That alone is enough to make it "natural". I see little value in describing anything as more or less natural. Something may be more or less likely to occur in a given situation but that doesn't make it more or less natural." -rydhi

"People have wrapped themselves in consumer goods and infotainment and superficialities. The real world has started to intrude, and many people have no idea how to deal with it." -Mo

"People need to know that there are upstanding honest atheists with good table manners. If they are uncomfortable with atheists, it gives them a chance to become acquainted with one. However, if you have dirty fingernails and a nasty personality, tell them you are a Jehovah's Witness." - Prismatic

"People SHOULD ALWAYS be willing to be talked out of their beliefs; and if provided with objectively verifiable evidence that those beliefs are erroneous, they SHOULD be willing to abandon those beliefs." -chip

"People who expound on theology, 'god's mysteries' and whatnot, are akin to Trekkies speaking at length about how a warp engine is assembled; one can go in to a great amount of detail about the subject, but at the end of the day, it's still all made-up bullshit about something that doesn't exist." -Flux(55A)

"Polish logicians did a lot of really great work, but they get little credit for it because no one can spell their names." -RH3

"Poor old God, how the mighty are fallen. Many years ago it seemed as though people were claiming God's existence could be proven using circumstantial evidence; "Look at the flowers, aren't they pretty, therefore God exists". Now it seems that more and more it becomes "well, you can't explain quantum theory using Einstein, and Darwin didn't get everything right, therefore God exists". -Tony

"Porn always tells it just like it is. And if your girlfriend comes home and catches you having sex with her sister, her immediate reaction will be to strip off her clothes and join in." -Rillion

"Pride and Prejudice and Zombies angered me because the illustrations had extremely, extremely wrong period clothing." -Mags

"Pride in one's genetic roots is all in one's head, though I can't see why anyone would be proud of being Irish. I mean, I am about half Irish, and look at me." -C12

"Raise the intellectual level of the White House. Elect Miss Teen South Carolina." -RH3

"Real non-conformity is between the ears, not in one's clothes closet". -Flux55A

"Realizing God exists can alleviate that empty feeling that makes someone so addicted to chronic masturbation." - Bodhitharta

"Reason cannot be cultured by withdrawing from the ideas of others. It must triumph." -Citizen12

"Reform and other liberal branches of Judaism know that there are female rabbis. Orthodox people know that there are not." -Reyzl(rgstern)

"Regardless of which words you enter in Google Image Search, some porn will result." -Saint Bengal

"Religion is a belief "system" like tossing a coin is a betting "system". -freeksngeeks

"Religion is an excuse for extremism and willful ignorance, not a basis for morals." -Kato84

"Religion is like King Midas but with poo where the gold should be." -Tatarize

"Religion, like drug addiction, is an unnecessary and harmful add-on. It isn't a matter of filling up some hole. It is like feeding a cancerous tumor." -C12

"Religious language is without factual meaning, but it has the same kind of meaning in human affairs that works of art and the imagination possess." -Prismatic

"Religious skepticism is not a moral failing. You could argue, if you must, that it is an intellectual failing, and I have no problem with that. I have a serious problem, though, with people who think that only reprobates can disagree with them." -DougofCal

"Relying on the stupid people is basically playing to chance, which is obviously better odds than relying on the intelligent people when your case is crap. It is, however, a bad play if your case is solid. Simple game theory." -Darkangel

"Repeat after me, "I will not eat mushrooms that I find in the woods." - Rev. Conor

"S/he/it seems very committed to the biblical universe. I enjoy the insights into primitive peoples as much as anyone. If only we didn't have to worry about their electoral control of nukes." -Nazrani

"Saying you're not planning on firing the first nuke is just reminding the other side that you can." -Mo

"Science has nothing to do with needing a belief. We don't pray to Newton that things keep falling (or to keep them from falling). There is no Altar of Mendeleev, no Mysteries of Einstein, no Gospels according to Darwin, no Temple to Pythagoras, etc." -Seeker

"Scientists are always coming up with their human explanations for the mysteries of God. The three phases of matter exist because there are three phases of God. God, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. God is the solid ice. His commandments are inflexible. Jesus is the water, because his teaching had to flow out among mankind. The Holy Ghost is steam, because ghosts look like steam." -Citizen12

"Scientists at least take the trouble to come up with a new name for every new mystery they discover. They don't keep recycling the same three-letter abbreviation for 'I don't know'." -DougofCal

"Scientists tend to gather around in fellowship, hold hands, and chant 'I believe in gravity'. One scientist, alas, had a moment of doubt and floated away. It was very sad." -Eljay

"Scratch a Fundie lightly and you'll find a nihilist." -Ozy666

"Secular morality leads. The church eventually relents its immoral positions. I can see how that looks like it's rejecting the bad, but it's not. The church rejects the laughable. And secular progress makes those positions laughable. They adopt the mainstream position when it becomes too absurd to not. So eventually they come around, but not because they were ever right about the subject." -Tatarize

"See, everyone? Physics doesn't ruin someone's ability to be hip and funny." -Tanner

"Self discovery, understanding who you (we) are, makes a lot more sense to me than trying to discover and understand an entity who seems rather bent on not revealing himself in any observable form." -Tayana42

"Sexism is weird. I think about it like I think about anti-Semites. Just outdated weird bigotry. Don't they have more modern people to hate?" -Mags

"Should theists or atheists care if yet another symbol is defiled in protest, even if that symbol has no meaning to us? If the Koran or the Bible is just a bunch of words on pages, then does it not follow that the flag is just a colored cloth - both of which are probably made in Taiwan? Are any symbols sacred?" -mymallandnew

"Since atheism has no doctrinal basis and requires no adherence from adherents, you are entirely free to invent or discover your own principles that make your life happier. That is the wonderful thing about being freed from dogma—you really are free." -Prismatic

"Since baptism involves water, I think debaptism needs to involve fire." -Mags

"Since the sarcasm part of my brain seems to be overdeveloped, I'm going to blame my poor social skills on the environment in general." -RH3

"Skepticism is of far more value than atheism." -C12(Citizen12)

"Slavery has gone out of style in the West now and preachers have changed their tune accordingly. The Bible hasn't changed. It still authorizes slavery." -SusannahHB

"Slavery was very much supported by the Bible. The pious arguments of the south were Biblical arguments. If one were to take all their morality from the Bible, abolitionism might as well have been satanism." - Tatarize

"Slowly, slowly, the world began to come around to accepting science. One by one, religious pronouncements fell to advancing knowledge. Now religionists are saying, "Can't we all just get along?" That's the equivalent of crying "uncle." Religionists are basically suing for peace. It means that science is finally doing well enough that it competes with nonsense." -FrankDK

"slowly, the churches have lost their hold on agriculture, on medicine, on taxes, on marriage, on everything. All it has left is the afterlife, and one day the last priest will prattle to the last worshipper, and it will be gone." -deadwombat

"Smoking that Obama weed will really fvck you up! This isn't nearly as funny as I thought it would be, but that won't stop me from posting it." -BenMcd

"Smooth jazz is neither smooth nor jazz. Discuss." -Qwerty Uiop

"So a true home consists of the woman who's womb was her childrens home from the beginning and the man who placed them in her home". - Bodhitharta

"So God isn't omnipotent after all. He seems to be quite a bungler. If a government contractor made a world and it came out the opposite of the way it was intended, the contractor would be fired. Time to fire your god and get a new one." -FrankDK

"So long as atheism is made to seem like an irrational bizarre position fit only for communists and idiots who think we're monkeys then Christian children are safe from the war of ideas." -Tatarize

"So to 'obey god', all I need to do is not violate the laws of nature. Which, really, is quite easy - since I've found it to be impossible to violate the laws of nature. Gravity keeps doing the gravity thing, electromagnetism keeps doing the electromagnetism thing, weak force keeps doing the weak force thing, strong force keeps doing the strong force thing, quantum mechanics keeps doing the whatever-the-heck-quantum-mechanics-is thing." - Eljay

"So to you, a sign of love isn't, for instance, saying to the person you love, "I forgive your bad deeds, because I love you. It's OKay. A sign of love would be saying, "I love you, but because you did something wrong I have to kill you. But because I love you SO much, I'll kill someone else instead." - mrbehemoth

"So, no, we don't "stone them out of love" We love them so they won't be stoned." - Bodhidartha

"So, what drives this atheist? All sorts of stuff. Love for my wife. An insatiable thirst for knowledge. A desire to live not extravagantly but comfortably. And perhaps to make the world a better place through contributing to the spread of reason, science and logic. These are MY purposes in life." -Dreamer-71

"So, what you're saying is, the real reason we have swear words and consider some words obscene is so that those of us who don't have Tourette's can have a greater appreciation for those who do? Works for me; afterall, who wants to be in some high society polite company situation and have to observe some twitchy bastard continually barking out the word "chair"? -Nota

"Some days I think I'd like to be religious, if only because there are things I'd like to be able to thank a god for. The Microsoft Word/About forum bug, for example." - RevDave

"Some doctrines do place women in arrears and there are some Islam beliefs that belive women should have a clitioral-dychtomy." - Ginger09 (Christian)

"Some people call me Jesus, but only on my coke-donkey trips to Mexico." -mrbehemoth

"Somehow we turned a page somewhere in the last century where people think a hundred year old + vampire going out with a girl in high school is totally non creepy." -DarkAngel

"Someone give me an idea for a memorable quote, so I can take it." -Tanner

"Sometimes talking with you reminds me of trying to nail jello to a wall. First, when you think you have it pinned down it jiggles away, then you wonder why the hell you're even trying to do this." - Tatarize

"Sorry, but I don't know how to post a hollow laugh." -RH3

"Sorry, but that is how atheists live their lives...eating, pooping and try as you may they cannot understand spiritual things, it just sounds like a noisy bell to them." -Bodhitharta

"Sorry, I don't go in for this touchy-feely crap. You want to judge my beliefs, go ahead. I have nothing to be ashamed of as far as my beliefs go. Everyone is entitled to have their beliefs, but that does not mean they are entitled to be free from criticism of their beliefs." -Tony

"Sorry, I've hit a political bottom of cynicism. Everything looks hopeless from where I sit. I don't even care that much anymore. I should be worried about the fact that I don't care, but I don't care about that either." -Tayana42

"Speaking of abstinence, maybe we could ask all the Catholics to abstain from having any more kids. Just what the world needs: more papist- pap-regurgitating godnuts who think birth control is a sin in a world where 6 billion clueless breeding bipeds are chewing up the planet and spitting it out in each other's faces. I used to blame the priests, but, Hell, lots of them started as altar boys and they just sort of got sucked into it. I kid because I love." -Crosshatch

"Spirituality" is one of those concepts that gets bandied about so often by people who want to avoid having their off the wall ideas associated with the off the wall ideas of organized religion, and is used to mean so many different things that it has become virtually meaningless in itself." -Tony

"Spontaneity is absolutely impossible without meticulous preparation." -mrbehemoth

"Stupid camping mistakes are evolution's way of weeding out the stupid campers." -Flux

"Such is the human condition. Having enlightened ourselves as much as possible, we can do no more. But what we can do, if nothing else, is admit the conflict between what we know and what we feel." - DougofCal

"Sufficiently advanced ineffability is indistinguishable from non-existence." -Yoghurt (Vaxholm)

"Teaching creationism as science would also be fun. Showing children how to apply scientific principles to problem solving is best done with familiar yet easily disposed of theories." -JK234

"Tell you what. You want us to believe in your god. Pray that starting today at midnight, no more people would die in the wars in the middle east. What could be simpler? Then, when that happens, we'll know that your god exists, and that you are a believer. If it doesn't happen, either your god is a phony, or you are." -FrankDK

"Thank you for informing us that you do not let your admitted ignorance get in the way of forming your opinions. This admission allows those reading your posts to accord them all the value they deserve." -chip

"Thankfully, wit is not a zero-sum game." -Meow

"That goddamn islamofascist liberal secular Marxist Kenyan geography. I hate that stuff." -GrandPoohbahofIrreverence (RDalin)

"That you even think you make an argument leads me to believe you're one of those cranky, jealous philosophers who wished you'd made room for at least a couple science classes in between your mind-expanding adventures involving sugar cubes and brownies." -jqhiggins

"That's a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Except in this case, the kettle is stainless steel, and the pot is a lonely black moron." -Psykomakia

"That's a terribly big word. If you have progressed far enough to use such big words, perhaps now you can go back and see if you're capable of reading that which exceeded your abilities earlier." -mrbehemoth

"That's all good and well, but I still say gay fruit flies should not be allowed to adopt maggots or lead Scout troops." -Mrreindeer

"That's my view on real life matters too. Don't ban books or ideas, ridicule them in the extreme. Do not allow them the way of darkness and subterfuge." - Simanos

"That's time travel for you. It's weird. It is weird, it was weird and it always will be weird, though not necessarily in that order." -RevDave

"That's what I say. Based on average life expectancy and what I have read about the effects of global warming, I should die just about the time the water reaches my ankles." -Tony

"That's what so many of these apologists don't get. They go on and on trying to "prove" Josephus wrote the TF, or that Nazareth actually existed in the first century, or that Hitler wasn't a Christian or... As if, if we just got those details "right", we would have to be Christians. Interesting to cross swords over, sure. Totally irrelevant to the existence or non-existence of God." -SusannahHB

"That's why I post - not to change your mind but to refine my mind." -mymallandnew

"The (putative) existence of a vague desire for some sort of relationship does not imply the existence of a being with whom to have that relationship, let alone one greater than ourselves." -RH3

"The ability to inspire, whatever the Hell that means, is apparently a desireable trait, even if people don't have a clue why it is they are inspired, or what they are inspired about." -Tayana42

"The acid or lithmus-test of an ethical system consists - for me, at least - in our willingness to live by its rules, find them sensible for my life and open to public discourse and political debate, not in our ability to accept what has been handed down by our forefathers and our ability to train our children in it before they can even develop their own independent judgment. Some ethical systems survive by procreation. I do not like them." -Empiricus

"The answer to your question, quite simply, is: we'll evolve to wherever we evolve, and we'll keep doing it. That's the only meaningful answer you'll ever get". - VeryIrreverentRichard (RDalin)

"The assumption here appears to be that the many people in question opposed the Holocaust. What is the basis for the assumption? Without that assumption I think that something more opposite is likely true: The Holocaust happened because many strong-willed people overcame their natural sympathies for their fellows, sacrificed their civility, and did horrible things because they thought it was right." -BeelzehostAA

"The attempt to redefine "God" or whatever, as "everything" or as Tillich has it, "the ground of all being" is the last refuge of the theologian who recognises the embarrassment of belief in a god defined in such crude and unbelievable terms as those used in the Bible or Koran but wants to continue to have his "subject" taken seriously." -Fox

"The attitudes behind it are the real problem I think. If people didn't consider it distracting, slutty and immoral to wear short skirts or show your ankles, if society didn't assume that it's a struggle for men to contain themselves...then who would decide to wear a burka?" -Mags

"The Baha'i faith is like different grade levels of a school, you progress through them all just to find out in the end that the school is not accredited." -Tatarize

"The best thing about plants is, when they die, they're already half-buried." -MrReindeer

"The best way to get rid of rabbits is to confuse them, and the best way to confuse them is to plant clumps of updock around the place." - RH3

"The bible cites cases of those who've seen God. The bible makes it clear that they did not see "spatio-temporal representations of God" - they saw God, Himself. The Male God, Jehovah - who cannot be seen. The omnipotent one who was helpless against iron chariots. The omniscient one who didn't know where Adam and Eve were hiding. The Very Embodiment of Truth, who lied to Adam and Eve. The Merciful God who turned an old lady into a pillar of salt for the high crime of taking one last look at the only home she'd ever known and was being forced to flee to escape His Holy Wrath. The Bringer of Peace, who demands that his followers bathe in Blood."-chip

"The Bible does mention unicorns and giants. But, no. No dinosaurs..." -Tatarize

"The Bible is a great source of comfort for those who have not read it." -Eljay

"The Bible says that the universe was created out of a cosmic ocean and that a hard dome structure protects us and that the gods spent the entire second day building it and a large amount of the fourth day adding bling to the firmament. Christians are allowed to read that out of the Bible and say it doesn't say that, because it seems silly enough that we don't accept it. But when it says in no uncertain terms that you may possess another human being as property there's not enough wiggle room to get out of that." -Tatarize

"The bible, just like all other religious writings, is nothing more than the result of human wishing, fantasy and occasional mushroom-induced hallucinations." -Seeker

"The body of Christ tastes a little better with the strawberry jam of Christ on it." -Eljay

"The Catholic traditions really helped me overcome it all, in the end. Because they are so uniform, and I am so bullheaded, it finally got to me that I was just following along like a sheep. Those same beliefs made me a raging bigot for a number of years, which I gradually overcame by realizing I was a douche." -djfoxwvqs

"The culture-dependency of near-death experiences told speak for themselves - appearances of angels or Mother Mary for the Xians, mythical beasts for the Hindu, boddhisatvas for the (Mahayana) Buddhists, and relief and darkness for the atheist." -Empiricus

"The danger is in embracing irrational beliefs by building an edifice of superstition on a foundation of ignorance." -Eljay

"The day someone becomes a Christian without ever having met a Christian, seen a church, or heard of the Bible, I might start thinking there's something to it. Same applies to all other religions, of course." -mrbehemoth

"The difference between science and religion: science re-interprets dogma in light of new data, religion re-interprets new data in light of dogma." -Zontor

"The easiest way to find a purpose in life is to buy one of the ready-made one-size-fits-all guaranteed-for-life purposes for sale by religious sects or political groups. Many people find these very satisfactory and have no need of anything else. More discriminating people look for tailor-made purposes cut to their life situation and their talents. These are generally of higher quality and more stylish. Best of all perhaps are those one-of-a-kind home-made self-designed purposes. They are the most individualistic, but they take a lot of time and effort." -Prismatic

"The fact that Christ was the blood sacrifice just goes to prove the point that it's about blood sacrifice. Saying that Jesus was the blood sacrifice to end all blood sacrifices is really just showing that at the core of Christianity is blood sacrifice." -Tatarize

"The fact that some people accept the myth of two childish, innocent dimwits in a fancy garden of everlasting happiness and pointlessness, written by some ancient goat-herders, as the most likely origin of humanity, instead of accepting one of the most elegant and best supported explanations science has to offer, perfectly demonstrates that evolution is more "concerned" with "creating" species that are able to survive, rather than those that are most intelligent and rational." -Skaryon

"The fact that such uncertainty is not merely possible but intellectually justified suggests that Christianity is not the sort of thing we would expect from God." -RH3

"The fact that you cannot discern the sense of what I am saying is not necessarily an indication as to whether I am making any or not." -mrbehemoth

"The fear of punishment is what keeps the religion strong and influential over the simple minded people. Religion is a tool to control people and bend them, through fear, to the will of those in power." -lahatte

"The fittest do not necessarily survive and the weakest do not necessarily perish. But that is the way I bet." -GonzoHost

"The human experience transcends all culture. Culture is what your particular tribe does to deal with that experience. All humans are born, experience adolescence, mate, rear ungrateful children, experience illness and eventual death. Every culture has rituals and celebrations surrounding those experiences." -meow

"The I.D. group makes itself a laughing stock. Trouble is, not enough people get the joke." -Marie Siduri

"The idea that our species of primate - that's only been in existence for a couple of hundred thousand of the thirteen billion years or so since the formation of the universe - is so pivotal to the alleged creator of the cosmos that he's created billions of galaxies with billions of stars in each merely as wallpaper for our enjoyment is one of the least humble suppositions I've ever encountered." -Mo

"The idea that the J/C/I god made people so he could have love is like a teen girl having a baby for the same reason." -apmom1266

"The juvenile sea squirt wanders through the sea searching for a suitable rock or hunk of coral to cling to and make its home for life. For this task it has a rudimentary nervous system. When it finds its spot and takes root, it doesn't need its brain any more so it eats it. It's rather like getting tenure." -RH3

"The lady who crashed into the tail-end of my car recently when I was standing in line before a red light did so because, as she said, she was watching the car waiting on her right side, saw it start and move forward. She followed suit without thinking about that lane being a turn-off lane where another smaller red light had switched to green while ours on our lane stayed red. The value of such physical lessons is sometimes overlooked by those dealing with the traffic of arguments. Not all lanes of argumentative debates are lanes of solid logical thinking. some take you sideways." -Georg (Empiricus)

"The lyrics of Gilligan's Island aren't worthless. They teach us to avoid three hour tours, three hour tours." -Tatarize

"The Meaning of Life is to evolve to the point where the organism develops the cognitive capacity to ask the question "What is the Meaning of Life"? For non-sapient organisms, the Meaning of Life is to live a meaningless life." -Eljay

"The metaphor that I came up with for this is that religion (or at least the theology part) is like doodling sea-monsters in the blank spots on ancient maps. It's harmless fun as long as no one actually takes it seriously." -Keepwe

"The more words you use to argue a simple concept, the more chances you have to hide an important fallacy in verbiage, and convince yourself and others that it is logical." -Tayana42

"The most insidious form of discrimination which undermines the very core of modern thinking is to make politically incorrect jokes about those who are trying to be politically correct." -Tayana

"The only "white lies" allowed in a family are what people are giving each other for Christmas, and telling Auntie Em she looks much better today. Not that your father is Satan's interpreter, and you will go to hell for listening to him." -Meow

"The only angel I believe in is angel food cake, and the only miracle I believe in is miracle whip. Not because I like those items, but because I know they exist." -Curtt

"The only place creationism (or creationist ideas) has in the classroom is as an example of how far people will go to defend a cherished idea in the face of the facts." - Fluffy666

"The only reason why you can't prove God's non-existence to a believer is because, by assuming the existence of the supernatural, he has rejected the only existing tool of provability - reason." -FirstCowboy

"The only time I wouldn't want to die is after saying "God if you exist, strike me dead!" Which I have done from time to time in religious arguments. I can easily come to terms with death, But whoever I would be arguing with at the time would take that as proof of God. That I wouldn't like And, being dead, I wouldn't be able to argue that my death was just very coincidental." -Tatarize

"The Papacy is like the British Secret Service. If you manage to get rid of 007, 008 will just take his place and continue the mission". -Gonzo

"The prime function of this forum is to give pedantic smart-asses like us a place to criticize the lower orders." -RH3

"The problem is, I read Mark 16:18, and there the Holy Scripture has it that a believer can handle poisonous snakes, drink poisonous fluids, and heal the sick. Try as I might, I don't think I can pull this stuff off. So I picture a real faithful believer like yourself, while in your car driving to the nearest hospital to cure all those patients, has a cobra crawling up one arm and quaffing down a pint of Drano with the other, showing that the Holy Scriptures are indeed accurate." -JQHiggins

"The problem with moderate Christians (or moderate Muslims for that matter) is they seem to cut the fundamentalists of their own faith some slack, probably out of some feeling of brotherhood. It’s dangerous, in my opinion, because it quietly gives credibility to some fanatical beliefs which run contrary to the good of society." -Tayana42

"The problem with things having rational explanations is you have to be rational to find them. Without this prerequisite we get aliens, demons, gods and ghosts." -Tatarize

"The reason why we can apply logic to politics or sports and come up with valid understandings but fail with theology is not because the Emperor's gown is so exquisite that it defies our reasoning and perception, but because it isn't there." -Tatarize

"The reason why you're not seeing any of those is that it's an unstable state, like some rare particles you can only see in particle accelerators. You can have a theist of semi-coherent thinking in a vaccuum, but as soon as it is exposed to the Internet (thus, information), it collapses either into incoherent thinking or into an atheist." -DarkAngel

"The religious are humanity's ball-and-chain." -Citizen12

"The same nature that produces a beautiful butterfly also produces an ugly engorged deer tick. If beauty is evidence of a higher power, then ugliness surely must be counter evidence." -Ozy666

"The sexes have two different purposes but they are equal in effect. Women are treasured more than men and that's why men are overseers of women." - Bodhitharta

"The simplified theology of Protestant fundamentalism is just like American fast-food: pre-digested, not a lot to chew, lacking in nutrition, leaving you hungry for more, and of course, it's very, very bad for you." -Mo

"The theist's life is that of cattle, all grazing along waiting for slaughter and deluding themselves that the Farmer keeps them around because he loves them (in anything else than BBQ sauce)." -DarkAngel

"The theists (figuratively) shoot themselves in the head, never mind the foot, all the time. The trouble is, they don't feel any pain and compliment each other on the improved ventilation." - Powers

"The type of dancing I do (and places I hang in), if nobody gets a fist in the face by accident during the whole night then that means the band was boring." -DarkAngel

"The Vatican is just practicing the first rule of amateur tap dancing: wave your hands a lot and they won't notice you're not doing much with your feet." -Prismatic

"The very way we are communicating, not to mention every tool ever made starting from when the first antelope thigh bone was repurposed as a cudgel, is both argument and evidence in favor of materialism." -Flux(55A)

"The virtue of honesty is highly overrated in any discourse with a delusional person." -JQ HIGGINS

"The whole bible is stories, just ink on a page. If you choose to base your life on it and your arcane analysis of "holy" scripture, then I'll take the yellow pages. My local butcher actually has relevance to my life unlike the mythical figures of your fairy stories." -freeksngeeks

"There are many definitions to the word 'truth'. The truth I mean is what conforms to reality. And one of my core beliefs is that I should in every way I can, make sure my beliefs are as close to conforming to reality, to being true, as I can." -MaxHarper

"There are plenty of nutjobs, and they're not all Christians; similarly there are plenty of Christians, and they're not all nutjobs. What cannot be denied, though, is there is a sizeable overlap between the two groups." -RevDave

"There are too many dubious characters arriving in Australia these days. Anyway, seeing them swinging from the lamposts will encourage the rest of the populace to take education seriously." -RH3

"There is a difference between skepticism based on knowledge, and skepticism based on ignorance." -Ozy666

"There is a lot of really good music in opera, but you can hardly hear it because of all the fat people screaming." - RH3

"There is a move to teach both creationism and evolution and to let the student decide. But no one wants to teach high schoolers tantric sex techniques and abstinence at the same time to let them decide." -MSiduri

"There is no evidence for intelligent design. None. The nearest any IDer has come to providing any is pointing to something and saying it "looks" designed, whatever that means. That's about as scientific as looking at clouds and saying, "Ooh, look! A horsie! And there's a bunny and a choo-choo train!" -Rev Dave

"There is no point to the universe. It just is. Same with life and death. They don't need capital letters for me, they just are. And, since I have life, I am going to enjoy it as much as I can without hurting others." -Mags

"There is nothing good in blind belief. At least liberal christians are trying to create a more or less decent god, one you can show your neighbours without too much embarassment." -Grahor

"There is nothing wrong with not knowing. There is nothing wrong with doubt. Belief on faith alone is not the virtue Christians say it is. It is intellectually honest to remain neutral in the face of unanswerable questions. Believing in the absurd on faith is irresponsible." -Tayana42

"There is still a lot we don't know, but with a long history of man finding the answers to things that once were attributed to a god, it would be a safe bet that today's questions will one day be answered with rational explanations instead of theological ones." -apostateofthelord

"There may be some ultimate truths out there, but neither the theist nor the scientist can know what they are, although sometimes in our need to explain things we confuse what we believe with what we know, and at some higher level of obfuscation we confuse either what we believe or what we know with truth. Given our limitations, I even wonder if truth is relevant." -easyD2

"There was a time when I never thought I would write that a country was better off when it was run by a brutal, repressive, murderous, war-mongering, CIA-sponsored, paranoid, thug." -RH3

"There was Dawson's Creek several years ago. Jen was an atheist. Nothing ever went right for her and she ended up dying of cancer." -Tatarize

"There was nothing wrong with those sentences. Your brain is structurally poor." -BenMcD

"There you go again, putting the words "fundy" and "read" in the same sentence." -RH3

"There's a difference between an "argumentum ad hominem" and a simple insult. The former is a logical fallacy, the latter is often merely satisfying." -Ozy666

"There's a difference between having a "right" and doing the right thing. People have the right to be bigoted and discriminatory in many situations...that doesn't mean others shouldn't condemn them for it." -Ozy666

"There's nothing wrong with saying "I don't know," but that's not what they're doing-- they're saying you can't know, because the answer lies in some privileged supernatural order. Bullhocky. Miracles are coincidences that you make personal." Rillion

"These 'values' that are 'promoted' transcend christianity or any dogmatic literature. Sometimes the right thing to do is just the right thing to do. No dogma necessary." -lahatte

"These things are simply not immoral, your disbelief is immoral. And Yes, Slapping your own parent warrants death." -Bodhitharta

"They are right, I admit it. I really believe in god, but he just pisses me off so much, I've put him on Ignore til he starts behaving himself. Sort of a cosmic Time-Out." -Meow

"They've (the KKK) had a marketing makeover. They're called The Tea Party now." -Eljay

"This forum is an ongoing work of art, reason, wisdom and civility, after all. To destroy its content would be akin to burning the Library of Alexandria!" -Mo

"This has been another installment of Logical Fallacy Theatre, brought to you by the Slippery Slope, the Argumentum ad Absurdum, and a grant from the Non Sequitur Foundation. Thank you, and good night. " - Flux

"This is not the first time I have almost died by taking an antacid incorrectly." -Deadwombat

"This is one of the immoral doctrines Christianity has promoted. The notion that everyone is guilty of a sin in which they had no choice or intention is an evil notion and shows the corrupt nature of Christian faith." -Prismatic

"This is the defense mechanism of your religious meme at work. Without it, you'd understand that the reason we don't see God is because ALL the objectively verifiable evidence suggests that no God exists. But since your religious meme 'wants' to protect and reproduce itself, you are forced by it to conclude that all the objectively verifiable evidence is wrong and that, instead, your subjective beliefs not only trump reality, but everyone else's beliefs too." -chip

"This just in: Bush is a dick and a dumbass. Also, everyone should pretend to convert to Islam to see what would happen. That would be entertaining. What would you do, Osama? What wouuuuld you do?" -Mags

"This latest action by Israel is purely out of the South Africa Apartheid book. South Africa had no more right to keep South Africa 'white' and disenfranchise blacks as Israel does to keep itself 'Jewish' and disenfranchise Arabs." -Simon

"This whole thread has descended into pornographic pictures, discussions about sex, and plans to destroy the universe." -RH3

"Those of us who have stepped beyond such plebeian definitions understand full well that the nature of the god proposed by Christians is one of evil, pure and simple. Now, if you want to say that an all-powerful evil entity can "redefine" his evil as good, you're more than welcome to try and make that argument." -Ozy666

"Three Cheung's in one thread! The technique is simple. Never reply to your opponent's points of view, but challenge his basis for knowing anything at all. Tell him his reasoning is self-refuting and nonsensical. He will get sucked into defending his reasoning and you never have to deal with his points." -Prismatic

"Time heals all wounds. But, of course it's 100% fatal so it's not much of a cure." -Tatarize

"To find an orientation point in all the GOP, tea party, birther, Democratic stew today, I found the Johnny Depp "Alice In Wonderland" movie on HBO and watched the whole thing through. Now I feel as though I can get a grasp on what's going on." -Rozmarija

"To me, religions and beliefs in gods is more likely to be wishful thinking by fearful, superstitious and primitive people than it is to be truth. More like "Well, that is a bunch of nonsense." rather than "I deny those beliefs with my own beliefs!" - Readzalot

"To me, the moral simply is, If you don’t like these things, quit making war or stop acting like it’s all about bravery, patriotism, and heroism. War is about suffering, fear, greed, and the ultimate human degradation.” -EasyD2

"To search for and know the truth is the closest I get to what some may call a spiritual path. That's why I read and listen; I take language courses so I can read more and listen to more people. I travel and see as much of the world as possible. I do all this just for the joy of knowledge. Life is its own purpose. We don't have to hunt for a reason to justify our existence." -apostateofthelord

"To speak of faith, then, is to speak of nothing substantial. One who says "I believe because of faith" only says "I believe because I believe." Believers typically seem to mean nothing more, except for the few who will admit that for them, faith means never having to say you were wrong." -DougofCal

"Trying to prove god with the bible is like trying to prove Superman with a comic book." -Robgene

"Turning theist is like embarking on Gullible's Travels." -Rev.Martini

"Uncritical Biblical scholarship is like a bunch of "Dungeons and Dragons" geeks discussing the exact parameters of Level 5 Wizard powers." -GonzoHost

"Underneath this is a great fear of the doubt and skepticism that atheism represents: the denial of their cherished realities. They are afraid that if one person can doubt (after all the convincing evidence they have assembled), then there might be a crack in the foundation that will bring down the whole edifice."- Prismatic

"Usually its the theists who come here with room temperature IQs. Lately we've had some atheists who I wouldn't mind seeing acquire a god belief." -curtt

"We all die, and Jesus would have died anyway, but no, there has to be this horrid story about a sacrificial bloodletting of an innocent man. I'd be just as happy if he would have simply died in his sleep at the age of 85 and pronounced us all forgiven before he went to bed." -Tayana42

"We all have an invisible tattoo of a helicopter on our left butt cheek, which can only be seen using black light. So if you can get Simon Cowell naked in a dark room, you can find out for sure if he's an atheist without actually asking him." -Rillion

"We can discuss people who have these visions. We can try to figure out why we are in such awe when they express those visions with oil on canvas and why when they verbalize those visions we tend to move to the other side of the room." -CarquinezRed

"We cannot solve the mystery of missing socks by involving elves. While it could plausibly be the right answer, the mystery of the socks is a lesser mystery than the mystery of elves. So unless there is some overwhelming evidence in favor of elves, we should rationally reject it." -Tatarize

"We determine the true religion using guidelines laid down by the founder of one of them? That doesn't seem like kind of a rigged game to you?" -MrBehemoth

"We just get angry at the thought of non-atheists of a certain type entering our little atheist club. Like the white trash at the Balmy Beach Club taking umbrage at a brain-damaged orangutan stumbling into the dining room and vomiting in their soup." -mrbehemoth

"We make God in our own image. And I have just a big enough ego that I can be turned on by that. Especially since I don't look like a hippo/possum/snake/scooby-doo thing." -Saurian200

"We'd eat a vegetarian? I'm in! The irony would be... delicious." -Flux

"We've seen Jindal's type here many times: people who insist on assigning attributes and characteristics to atheists and atheism which bear no connection to reality. They seem unable to understand that all of atheism is contained in one simple sentence: I don't believe in God. There's nothing else, but of course that would make a very short article, so it's necessary to insert a bit of padding." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"Well, he have a point. It can't be denied, that Steve Irwin actively asked for it. While any loss of life is a tragedy, of sorts, some tragedies are just less equal than others." -Grahor

"Well, I am a pro-life atheist, so that ought to make your head explode." -AtheistKeith

"Well, I suppose we shouldn't expect more from people who trained from early childhood to ignore cognitive dissonance. "God loves all mankind and he sent a great flood to drown them." "Our god is a loving god, and he will send you to hell to suffer for all eternity if you don't believe it." -Citizen12

"Well, if nuts sprinkled on a turd is your idea of a banana split, then the Republican Party is a banana split." -curtt

"Well, lah-dee-dah! All of a sudden I have to start wearing pants? When did this place get so posh?" -Flux

"Well, Lo, I don't loathe puns. It's just when SnoopyLucy gets on one of her tears she goes at it with all the fervor of an evangelist missionary who's trying to convert a bunch of naked pygmies." -ptcarnahan

"Well, since no theistic philosophy could ever possibly endorse naughty deeds, any naughty deeds are obviously the result of atheistic philosophy by definition." -mrbehemoth

"Well, that sucks. What's the point of being a physicist if you don't get to bash things into each other at near-light speeds?" - Seth

"Were I King of the World, I'd decree that churches must abide by truth-in-advertising laws. Given that I am not, I shall sit idly by, dismayed that the mind of the world has rarely had more than a nodding aquaintance with reason." - chip

"What I am getting at here is that you didn't choose a faith because some god told you to. No god has ever told anyone anything. You chose a faith because you have some need to hold some belief and christianity seems to have been convenient for you." -lahatte

"What I am saying is that despite the increasing opportunities to cry out loud that our political and religious leaders so "generously" provide for us, there remains enough wonder in the world that scepticism need never dampen one's ability to enjoy the truly sublime and beautiful." -Fox

"What if we don't want free will? God gives it to us anyway. By forcing us to have free will, isn't he taking our free will away from us? Therefore we have no free will. God needs a spanking." -Rev.Conor

"What is your native language. Is it tongues?" -Shawwanossoway

"What it comes down to is, if you're nicer than other people who call their religion by the same name you call yours, it's not because you've found the true, real, absolute, creamy centre of your faith and they haven't; it's because they're arseholes and you're not." -MrBehemoth

"What kind of crap is this forced pledge recital anyway? For a pledge to have value, it must be taken freely." -Yoghurt

"What planet did this guy stick his head up his ass on?" -Tony

"What the several writers who wrote about Jesus wrote [was] a variation of the truth known as a lie". - Eljay

"When Adams "womb" was placed in EVE she became a "Wombed" Man i.e. woman. Mankind is composed of Males (without wombs) and Females (with wombs). They are both a kind of Man, hence the term Mankind." -Bodhitharta

"When dealing with someone who thinks a circular argument is logical, one can expect the conversation to travel as far as a horse on a carousel." -AtheistKeith

"When did our society become so stupid that they can't understand fractional dimensions?" -Dingo

"When I left the Catholic church I was determined to make my own life choices, not have them dictated for me. They weren't perfect. Some things worked out well, others didn't. But I wouldn't trade the freedom to make those choices for anything, even if I might have done some things differently." -SusanL12

"When it comes to their religion, theists tend to think in sound bites rather than in an organized way that requires thoughtful analysis, and I don’t do well with sound bites. Anything worth thinking about requires more time and thought for me to involve myself with." -Tayana42

"When life gives you lemons, smash the lemons with your heel, go eat a bunch of expensive candy and laugh at semi-literate creationists on this forum who try to "debunk" evolution." -AtheistKeith

"When tempered with wisdom and experience, I don't see religiosity as being a necessarily bad thing. Organized religion, however, hijacks and corrupts religiosity. Organized religion is to religiosity what cancer is to cell division." -AtheistKeith

"When we bomb a country back to the stone age, we aren't really in a position to complain when stone age ideologies emerge." -Mark Boyd

"When you get arrested coming out of a gay bar and it makes all the news stations, that isn't coming out of the closet. It's getting thrown out of the closet." -Tony

"When you make statements that are just opinions and expect them to be respected as facts, you're going to be very disappointed." -KayKay

"Whenever possible, I always tick the "Other" box on forms, no matter what the question might be. I also put postage stamps on sideways, but that's a different matter, I suppose." -Superhop

"Whenever the question of religion and science comes up, people always look like morons or atheists. We atheists don't have a problem with it, and neither do the morons." -Tatarize

"Where a bear of very little brain who can't tell a logical argument from a bowl of petunias notices only that whenever he argues he gets verbal abuse, which he takes to mean that he must be one of the persecuted righteous and so must be doing something right." -Keepwe

"Whether it's a formula, a worldview or an hypothesis, Occam's Razor will provide you with the closest shave you've ever seen! Say NO to factors that don't factor. Eliminate unrated ratios. A clean explanation is the hallmark of a clean mind!" -Seeker

"Whether or not I'm happy with what I believe is irrelevant. My beliefs are not and cannot be determined by what would make me happy. My beliefs are determined by what I can justify." - Seth351

"Whether or not someone can call themselves "Jewish" seems to me to be so insignificant, it's hardly worth mentioning. And to reach a conclusion regarding the issue by trying to decipher the written and oral traditions of folks that have been dead for thousands of years is weird at best. Everyone needs a hobby, I guess." -Saint Bengel

"While it is a lie, and I think lies are, as a rule, bad, the worst part of a lie is the disrepect it shows those you tell them to. If the disrespect is intended, then go for it." -vaxholm

"While oatmeal might help lower your cholesterol, I don't think I'd recommend allowing it to saturate your head any longer." -elmeraho

"Who won? The terrorists on both sides. In Lebanon, Hezbollah came out looking like protectors and rebuilders, while Israel comes across as the oppressor, targeting civilians. In Israel the warmongers came out looking strong, no-nonsense, you-hit-us-we-kill-you leaders. It's a victory for violence." - Aspie

"Why believe any of it? You are just picking and choosing the bits that fit in with your world view. It is not that the Bible informs your world view, it is that your world view determines which parts of the Bible you will accept as being believable." - Goldblock

"Why human sacrifice? Because humans are a more worthy sacrifice than any amount of animals. The religions are ego-filled but not humanitarian." -Tatarize

"Why is it invariably the ill-versed in science that feel the most qualified to judge good science from bad? Never mind, I think I just answered my own question." -Flux

"Winning a Nobel Prize does not make one's position on a non-related subject any stronger. This is just an argument from authority fallacy, with the Nobel Prize Committee acting as the authority." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"Wishful thinking does not constitute evidence. Faith does not constitute evidence. Irrational belief does not constitute evidence. Anecdote, hearsay, and rumor does not constitute evidence. Untenable authoritarian dogma does not constitute evidence. Lack of reason, damaged critical thinking, and lack of logic is not a substitute for evidence." -Eljay

"With prayer, when things didn't go my way, I had to conjure up some excuse as to why the prayer magic didn't work. I must have been at fault somehow, surely. Now that I accept the fact that there is no prayer magic to be activated, I don't have to worry about the magic. Now I can expend my energies on trying to do what I can to make things better instead of expending my energies on trying to figure out why the magic didn't work." -AtheistKeith

"Without quoting the Bible, can you give us one single reason for believing that God is just, or cares about humans at all one way or another?" -RH3

"Wow, damnation without relief. That's pretty shitty." - Best Peasant

"Wow, that post was like a concerto of stupid, played on the insanophone." -mrbehemoth

"Yeah, at least sex, while observed from the outside, can make you laugh." -Grahor

"Yep, women and Religion. Go figure! You'd think they'd be at the forefront of leading us away from it toward something where you can be kind and decent and marvel at Life minus the hocus pocus. Then again, they bought millions of Thigh Masters." -Crosshatch

"Yes, there's a reason why both "psi" researchers and creationists/ID proponents have to publish in their own respective journals -- because they've failed the criteria needed to be taken seriously by real science." -Flux55

"You always hear about how fat Americans have gotten, but when the camera pans across the crowd at Wimbledon.... it's good to have widescreen." -Twsh

"You are a breathtaking paragon of unintentional irony." -Ibn Tumart

"You are confusing forced slavery with voluntary slavery." - Boditharta

"You are too easily impressed if you think, 'Define your god specifically, and present actual evidence for its existence', is a highly sophisticated critique." -Tenpin3

"You can just thank the Holy Elmer the Chrisians have lost their heretic-burning privileges or you'd be toast." -TSShagnasty

"You cannot be offered your life in enchange for a choice and still call it free. The cosmic rapist cannot rape me and still say he loves me by offering me a choice, his way or hell." -Iconoclast

"You chicks always think we're being condescending. But we really just think you're doing a great job with all those big hard science words, and you look cute with a test tube." -mrbehemoth

"You don't like the label? Tough, because I shall continue to categorize you as religious. I have no better classification for the sort of supernatural, zero evidence beliefs that you seem to have." - Nazrani

"You have to appreciate that on this forum a thread about "Hitler and Christianity" can end up discussing broccoli and dogs." -Saint Bengel

"You know a stance is truly stupid when, to make fun of it, you need only quote it." -Atheist Keith

"You know I tried being original but I found there are already so many original people around here, I just became one of the crowd." -arjaypet

"You know you're a geek when science mistakes in movie previews nearly kill you." -BenMcD

"You know, I was tempted to answer that, but that would propel my geekhood into the stratosphere so I'll just pretend I have no idea." -Ibn Tumart

"You know, that adorable sig pic is the only thing that keeps your posts from being a complete waste of bandwidth." -Queen Maeve

"You know, they just don't make ape-shite netloonies like they used to." -Mo

"You lost. You lost miserably. It was the most embarrassing defeat since your parents tried to raise a sentient being." -mrbehemoth

"You may not be stupid, but you certainly do a flawless impersonation." -DeadWombat

"You must be one of those transitional humans the evolutionists are always talking about. Not quite ape... but close." - Twsh

"You must learn to express yourself in ways people can understand. It is essential for you to learn this so that you can earn a living when you flunk out of college." -freeksngeeks

"You need to learn the Way of the Wombat. Be cynical, be untrusting. You spend your life being pleasantly surprised or being proved correct. There is no downside." -DeadWombat

"You never see a weapon with a smiley face on it. There's a reason for that." -SnoopyLucy

"You seem to want to debate a deity, when I just want to perpetuate a truth." -Ginger09 (Christian)

"You should probably deal with the real problems of our world instead of those imposed by your own ignorance and bigotry. But then again, that wouldn't be very christian of you, would it? " -Skaryon

"You should really emit a beeping sound, what with all that back-pedaling." -Flux55

"You somehow think that religious arguments are something other than funny. If people paid attention, knew the arguments, read the Bible, cared about the truth, religion would suffer greatly and society wouldn't." -Tatarize

"You want to relieve suffering? Take all the vast amounts of time, money, and resources that are wasted worshipping delusions, building expensive edifices to the glory of illusions, paying salaries for the shills of illusions, and providing expensive baubles for the purveyors of illusions and turn it to bettering the lot of mankind." -NonProphet

"You're probably familiar with the saying "Trying to get Atheists to agree is like trying to hurt cats. Although I don't know why anyone would want to hurt cats......well, besides the obvious." - nota

"You've made it waaay too complicated. Just don't seethe a goat in its mother's milk and you'll be fine. All that other stuff is out-of-date nonsense and allegory." -MrBunny2

"Your freedom to be an artist is guaranteed by the society in which you live, and to which you have a moral duty to contribute to in a positive way. Pay your taxes and stop whining." -Superhop

"Your mistake, Sinnecul, is that you are trying to persuade me with the facts." -John76

"Your understanding is dictated by your dogma, not reality. The question of *how* to think with it is irrelevant. Faith is not a way of thinking. It is a way to avoid thinking." -DougofCal

"Zealots need absolute certainty. Reasonable people accept and work with varying degrees of uncertainty, knowing that that is how the universe works." -Flux

"Zombies, after all, are the result of an experimental virus that was released accidentally from a government lab. That's science. Vampires are just myths." -Tony

User:Tatarize

2012-12-24T20:52:35Z

Tatarize:

"'Jesus lived a long, healthy and happy life and passed away peacefully in his sleep for your sins' doesn't have the same ring to it..." -RevDave

"(It's called a bombing "campaign") Because there are a number of bombings over an extended period of time, presumably intended to change public opinion for a political end. It's like an election campaign, but by more humane means." -RH3

"(shrug) I just don't understand all this arguing about what color, mass and composition of the elephant's dandruff is when there's NO FREAKING ELEPHANT." -chip

"[Bush] is a living example of the Confucian principle that there cannot be moral order when there is intellectual disorder." -RH3

"[Faith is a sin] Because it is an attack against one's own self. One defies and defiles one's ability to comprehend the world in favor of maintaining a particular belief. Faith is molesting one's own mind in order to accept the products of someone else's mind." -AtheistKeith

"A deity who wanted to be believed in would try to either make itself intelligible or improve our powers of understanding until we were capable of proving it. If it cannot do either, it is perhaps not a deity worthy of our attention." -RH3

"A devout agnostic is one who gets down on her knees and shrugs three times a day." -mrbehemoth

"A good Christian should always strive to emulate Christ. I do my best to help, but I'm having trouble finding sufficient quantities of lumber". -MrBehemoth

"A lot of people are reluctant to call themselves atheists because they fear it has a stigma of arrogance or carries with it a claim of certainty that they do not feel. I am not interested in denying reality to satisfy prejudices; I prefer to shout the truth and attempt to de-stigmatise it." -mrbehemoth

"A person ought to be scared, very scared, of any frame of thought that says evidence is irrelevant." -DougofCal

"A rude person might suggest that there are no factual errors in the Bible because it contains no facts. Naturally, I wouldn't say any such thing." -RH3

"A social occasion is hardly the place to make a bold statement of disbelief. I would rather bow my head and close my eyes for grace and be thought courteous, if hypocritcal, than to make a point of not doing so and be thought a lout, but an honest lout." -Prismatic

"According to many religions, gay sex and gay relationships are immoral, yet banning them doesn't seem to yield any net positive result for the religious people who defined them as immoral." -Keepwe

"Actually ALL faith is nothing more than a blind leap. It's not built upon knowledge; it's an attempt to leap over the areas that logic prevents you from traversing; faith is the circumvention of logic." -chip

"Actually, I don't think it has that much to do with intelligence. More with education. Many atheists are former believers. They didn't get smarter, they got less ignorant." -Icky

"After you've extricated what you like from Christianity, and dismissed or superficially rationalized away what you don't like from Christianity, why call your derived religion Christian? The negative connotations of the term do your religion a disservice." -eljay

"Ah, spite. Is there anything it can't do?" -Jedi Ducky

"Ah, You must be a christian: You can't write, you can't think, and you don't know when to shut up. :)" -chip

"Aha, the well-known and universally feared argumentum ad taedium Â— the appeal to pique. You won't continue the discussion unless we stop annoying you with logic." -Prismatic

"Alas, the obvious does not take root in the minds of the oblivious." -AtheistKeith

"Alas, the virtual lacks the redeeming virtue of realityÂ—it may be unpleasant, but it is." -Prismatic

"All in all, I don't think it matters a lot what the ultimate source of "our morality" is. I do think that for society to function smoothly and fairly it should be at least conditionally accepted that we humans are the source of their legitimacy." -Citizen12

"All in all, I find that I have no use or need for religion. I merely try to spend my days enjoyably, help my fellow man when I can, and hope to live to a ripe old age before the darkness comes again." -J.Dean

"All medicines have their side effects and these can include unleashing the forces of darkness upon an unsuspecting world. But nevertheless, I think you ought to see your doctor about a prescription." -Mo

"All the superstitious drivel I was addicted to like gods, pyramid power, ESP, astrology, and the list goes on, just cheapens existence. How much more fantastic is the world revealed by science than the one explained by some tales of magic." -Flux

"All too often our leaders don't represent the majority of the people they govern and, sadly, all too often they do." -Rev.Conor

"American Christians often fail to realize that their political and social opinions may be more shaped by their American culture than by their Christianity." -AR Cline

"Amongst the greatest absurdities that consume mankind is governance by divine decree. That form of control is a pox on truth and plague on reason. When it doesn't destroy hope, it ruins inspiration." - Reshuffle

"And his sin was gaining knowledge of good and evil. You know, morals? That thing you claim atheists don't have? So if we have no knowledge of good and evil, we atheists are without Original Sin. So we don't need your preaching. We're pure! You're the sinner! Go away." -Mrreindeer

"And if you are going to drive over a bridge would you rather drive over one which was designed according to tested engineering principles or one which was designed according to faith in god's ability to "bear you up"? Faith without evidence is immoral because it is criminally negligent." -gclason

"And the lesson we should all take away from these incidents is: Nature is always trying to kill us, especially those with psychological issues and intellectual challenges." -MrReindeer

"And to bring it back to Asimov's point, it actually works against the notion of a Christian god. After a close read of the Bible, an unbiased and impartial response would be, 'And I'm supposed to believe that?'" -Tayana42

"And when I noticed that they were advertising toilet paper as containing vitamin E, after a few minutes breathing into a paper bag, I came to the conclusion that perhaps the Unabomber had a point." -Fluffy666

"And you also well know that non-believers can care very deeply about religion just as a person with no interest in baseball can care very deeply about a person beating him with a baseball bat." -Icky

"And, by the way, I haven't "chosen to ignore" the one who leads you... I believe it (Jesus, your god, whoever it is you follow) never existed. If I had to bother ignoring everything that does not, and has never existed, I'd be too damn busy to do anything else." -logicalsoul

"Any being that wipes out a large portion of the human population is an enemy of humankind, and anyone who bows to It is a traitor of the worst kind." -DarkAngel

"Any brain that believes in intelligent design is evidence of the failure of the hypothesis." -Mo

"Any knowledge or lack of same about gods feeds into my agnosticism. A sufficient amount of knowledge wouldn't change my atheism into theism, it'd render the whole concept of atheism (and theism) meaningless." - RevDave

"Any positives claimed for religions are simply due to the limits that religion has placed on people's ability to conceive of and embrace realistic approaches to accomplish the same things." -lahatte

"Anyone remember The Professionals? Late 70s/early 80s, Lewis Collins and Martin Shaw as Bodie and Doyle, some sort of special branch of the police, fighting terrorists and the like? Every so often I have to remind myself I'm watching the news." -RevDave

"Anyone who asks such a question could not possibly understand the answer." -DougofCal

"Apparently it's necessary to remind you that you've already demonstrated to me that you are not worth the miniscule effort it takes to rebut your pointless statements." -chip

"Are atheists smarter? I'm not sure, but I DO know that the black ones have better rhythm, the Hispanic ones have more kids, and the Asian ones are better at Math." -Crosshatch

"Are you a former drug abuser? If so, would I be correct in attributing your apparent inability to engage in critical thinking to drug-related brain damage?" -Elmeraho

"As a surmise, is your voice contralto? I happen to have gathered some negative stereotypes from various soprani of my acquaintance concerning contralti (of which imputed maleness is unfortunately one.)" -Mick(Canaris1)

"As an ex-Republican and ex-theist, I can, when pressed, justify virtually any belief or statement of mine, while denigrating anything that contradicts me, as long as we don't make reality too much of an issue." -FrankDK

"As for people who don't want to hear "Darwin" or "evolution", Well, boohoo, tough luck. When I'm sitting in a plane I don't wanna hear "Newton" or "gravity" either, but that doesn't make me think that the laws of gravity can be ignored. Reality is what it is, not what you think it should be." -Seeker

"As for sushi, I really don't know why bits of raw fish stuck on to gobs of gooey rice have become so popular in places where real food is available. I can only think it is one of those silly fashions, like bottled water and tattoos, that the brainless follow because everyone else is doing it." -RH3

"As noted, some of us prefer to try to understand and recognize reality as opposed to escaping it. Regardless, if you're going to define 'a crutch' as anything which makes life easier or helps get one through life, then you're going to have to include love, companionship, food, shelter - damn near everything - as a 'crutch'." -chip

"As the Bushes climbed aboard the helicopter, I thought of what Peter Lorre said to Vincent Price at the funeral of Bela Lugosi, famous for his vampire roles: 'Do you think we should drive a stake through his heart, just in case?'" -Prismatic

"As usual, Coulter is talking out of her adam's apple. Although I must say I do find her strangely sexy, in a liberated concentration camp sort of way." -Icky

"At this age it becomes a crap shoot. You may be lucky or not. You can shift odds a bit in your favor with good habits, but that is all you can do. You have to live on the edge while you watch others slipping over it. " -Prismatic

"Atheism goes hand in hand with communism. Therefore, all atheists are left-wing. The existence of god is perfectly obvious to any reasonable person. Therefore all atheists are insane. People become atheists only because they hate God. Therefore all atheists are hate-filled. So no, there are no atheists who are not hate-filled left-wing wackos." -mrbehemoth

"Atheism isn't something you argue against. If there's no God, there's no God. Either provide evidence or realize that we're perfectly reasonable saying that the evidence for God is on par with the evidence for werewolves. Unless you're going to ask that we have faith in werewolves, there's nothing left." -Tatarize

"Atheism requires as much faith as believing that the sun will rise tomorrow. Theism requires as much faith as believing that there are elves in my pants. Hope that helps." -Psykomakia

"Atheists are sexy. We make our own heaven." -Saint Bengel

"Atheists have imaginations too. They just don't misinterpret emotional feelings as communication with a god." -lahatte

"Atheists often claim to know the bible better than theists, and some of us who came out of the dungeons of christ do know it better; however, every atheist who wants to discredit the bible has to know what the literature is and why it is nonsense. This collection of literature is the guiding "light" for millions of people who vote and create policy for all of us." -apostateofthelord

"Athests are not annoyed, we're just foresaken." -ptcarnahan

"Auto labeling forum bot 2000 Gold edition: This post has been given the following labels: Rambling, wrong, run on paragraphs, hard to read, waste of time, silly. Please rate the above labels to further increase the correctness of the Auto Labeling Forum Bot 2000, Gold edition." -MaxHarper

"Bad evidence, such as referring to known hoaxes, is not very compelling evidence. You may want to take steps to compensate for your confirmation bias, your gullibility, and your undue credulity." -Eljay

"Bah. Christians. Who needs insults and swearwords when you have such an insulting word as "Christian". -Grahor

"Basing a state on an ethnicity is to deny the full, equal, humanity of people of other ethnicities. It is to maintain - in mirrored form - the separation that brought about the oppression of the minority in the first place." -RH3

"Basing your own purpose on the purposes (or lack thereof) of the universe is a poor fit and will be unfulfilling. Especially considering that you do not know the purpose(s) of the universe, or even if it has a purpose." -Eljay

"Bathroom walls were sort of like primitive internet forums." -Letxbex

"Because I want to feel I am worthy of love, and if someone is going to love me no matter what I do or what sort of person I am, there's no point in being worthy of it." -mrbehemoth

"Because the human race is the most important thing in the universe and we're vital to God's plans, so therefore he had to create everything so we had things to study and wonder about and realize it couldn't have happened without God creating it and by doing so we'd fulfill God's plan and be closer to God and God would be happy and we'd all have ice cream and cake. And like that." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"Being a skeptic in a group of believers is like being a designated driver." -NOGODHERE

"Believing your own delusions is not freedom. Just thought you should know that." -Goldblock

"Besides the things I would like from everyoneÂ—kindness, courtesy, tolerance, and helpfulnessÂ—I would like Christians to recognize my freedom of conscience. Too often their first reaction to learning one is an atheist is to start missionary work. " -Prismatic

"Best argument for atheism: the lack of argument for theism." -RationalSerenity

"Bigots always have an explanation for why their position really isn't bigotry. "God said so" is very popular. They're still bigots, and if their god said so, then he's a bigot too." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"Black and white, yep that describes atheists in general on one point. No God! After that color creeps into everything." -dlove5duke

"Blatant Sarcasm Police? Well, they won't have much to do around here..." -KateHost

"Boy, if I had a nickel for every time I've read this . . . well, I'd just have a nickel. You have reached a new high in incomprehensibility." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"BTW, this is a great sentence: 'The creation of a things had to follow something contrary to the laws that sustain nature's processes'. If I had to sum up how dumb you are in one sentence, this would be it." -GrandPoohbahofIrreverence (RDalin)

"BTW, we are born equal and we all go back to being equal 6 feet under. Some of us take the time in between to elevate ourselves, and others prefer to remain mired in mindless superstitions." -DarkAngel

"But every foot has to be fought for tooth and nail. We have to pry women's rights from the arms of Deuteronomy. We have to fight a war to free ourselves from the slave codes of Holy Writ. We have to fight for gay rights to seize them from Leviticus. And we have to oppose the anti-semitism of John. We need to battle for science against Genesis. We need to redeem history from Genesis to Kings. We need to defend ourselves from Revelation and Daniel." - Tatarize

"But just think about this: wouldn't a person who doesn't expect a reward at the end or fear eternal punishment and who acts ethically and with honesty and compassion, anyway, (a righteous atheist) be morally superior to a god-fearing ass-kisser?" -Crosshatch

"But later I'm gonna be a minister/engineer that's gonna challege all these theories and make evolution look stupid. Count on it." -hydro

"But look at it this way: it wouldn't be evidence of the supernatural, just evidence that what we thought was impossible, isn't. Like the invention of the aeroplane showing that the impossibility of heavier-than-air flight was not actually an impossibility. If magic existed, it wouldn't contradict any natural laws because it would be part of them. It would be another natural force like gravity." -mrbehemoth

"But we don't have to concern ourselves with gods a great deal as they don't seem to be around and they don't seem necessary to get through the day." -pgobrien

"But you are the nation which invented Vegemite, and no one can ever take that away from you lot, nor would they wish to." -Ibn Tumart

"But Â“You didnÂ’t have faithÂ” is leveled as an accusation. As if not believing everything one is told without requiring evidence were somehow a moral failing. It isnÂ’t. If anything, the reverse is true. It is symptomatic of a lack of interest in truth to be faced with evidence against a belief one holds and to ignore that evidence in order to hold onto the belief."-SusannahHB

"But, always remember, the Bible is mostly for condemning other people. Only a few select passages are to be applied to the Christians themselves." -AtheistKeith

"Can you at least TRY to put yourself in my shoes? Can you at least TRY to conjure up a smidgen of empathy, to understand how incredibly stupid and demanding of mockery this belief is?" - chip

"Catholic birth control teaching? Someone call the Kamikaze Pilot Crash Avoidance Training Centre, they're now second place in the absurdity stakes." - Rev.Dave

"Catholic wafers are the transubstantiated body of Christ. Protestant wafers are the demon seed of Satan. At least that's what I learned in Catholic Sunday school." -Eljay

"Children aren't any more prone to making up stories than adults. They are just not as good at it, so we think they are charming. When they get older, we call them liars. Or preachers." -Meow

"Christ is a fictional biblical character. The fictional character in a fable died. But no actual gods were harmed in the writing of that fable." -Eljay

"Christians ignore the fact that lukewarm adherents greatly outnumber the fervid ones; that adherents do not practice the tenets of their belief, and that the mainstream churches are all but dead now." -Prismatic

"Christians who come here, with a few exceptions, are generally bigoted idiots. I see you're not one of the exceptions." -Seth351

"Christmas is a secular holiday for me. It's all about food, family, gathering, Santa, and presents. Nothing about Christianity or Jesus. Axial tilt is the reason for the season." - Eljay

"Clearly there's a mindset among the ultra-religious of many religions that wants to tightly control the behavior of everybody else. Surely this is a form of mental illness, isn't it? The same sort that infects the Taliban and Mel Gibson?" -Freeksngeeks

"Common sense isn't very useful, really. First of all, it's basically saying "Well, it just makes sense, I don't need to use logic or such". Only those that can't support their arguments claim common sense." -MaxHarper

"Complaining that your right to infringe on other's rights is being infringed upon is laughable -- you have no such right, and your belief that you do is immaterial."-Flux

"Congratulations! You're not only arrogant and ill-informed but you're also a nutter. The holy hat-trick." -Fox(DavidFox)

"Consider the more likely scenario. Humans are not "worthless, dirty rags" at all. Instead, a religion developed that contrived a crisis just so it could get you to accept what it has to sell. Con artists use that tactic all the time to sell you something. They invent a problem, persuade you that you have that problem, and then make you believe that they - and only they - have the solution to the problem, so you better buy it before it is too late. That is all your religion is doing. It is emotionally abusing you, manipulating you into feeling ashamed, and then telling you that your only hope is to buy into their product." -AtheistKeith

"Courtesy? Courtesy is holding a door for someone. It's not catering to someone's silly little fantasy world." -Starriver6

"Cowboy Dubya. CHopper pilot Dubya. General Dubya. Churchy Dubya. Drooling idiot Dubya. Collect the whole set." -DeadWombat

"Currently there are at least 3 counties in Floriduh whose school boards have passed anti-evolution resolutions. That list could go up to 12 counties, if a statement by the superintendent of the Taylor county board is accurate. In other news, barbarians have just sacked Rome." -Rev.Martini

"Cynic: noun. Term used by fools to describe realists." -DarkAngel

"Damn, Charlton Heston is a bad actor. You forget how bad until the guy in the plastic monkey mask out-acts him." -DeadWombat

"Dear Santa: I would like for these believers to reach the bottom of the barrel and stop there, instead of digging further. Today would be great, sometime in my lifetime would do. Thanks in advance," -RevDave

"Death and destruction are the meat and potatoes for any good Christian meal. Especially when it comes in Biblical proportions." -meow

"Did you know that DDT has caused men to become homosexual?" -EKDaniel (Theist)

"Discrimination against women and gays, I think, is something many religions, including Catholicism, stand guilty of. And the people within those religions shouldn't get accepted as good and decent people just because they are sincere in the abhorrent views they hold." - mrbehemoth

"Do you think big, bold fonts make bullshit any less fecal?" -nganga2

"Do you have any idea of the close resemblance your posts bear to a poorly translated instruction manual for a Japanese clock radio?" -mrbehemoth

"Doesn't matter how fast you become cynical, you can never really keep up with as cynical as you need to be." -Tatarize

"Doesn't that sound noble and lofty? It's like a country song that makes people cry, but when you look at the words objectively, it's just a string of idiotic babbling." -apostateofthelord

"Don't be so lazy, and do your own research, as I suggested. I no longer try to spoon-feed the solid food of knowledge to creationists because they're simply not old enough to digest it." -Flux(55A)

"Don't never not let comprehensive writing in sentences make sense stop you! Because you writer. Not need check writing before posting. Just words that other people read, how dare they expect clear words in row without hiccups?!" -MrBunny2

"Doubt is not a weakness. Doubt is a strength because, without it, we can never find any truths. All we find is other peoples' dogma." -Mo

"Doubt seems to be very popular among Christians. But it's never 'we have doubts about God's existence, so how do we find out the truth?' It's always 'we have doubts about God's existence - given we already KNOW he exists, how do we deal with our doubts?'" - mrbehemoth

"Each proof you give, like the solar system, is eventually shown to be the work of natural forces, and soon it will take a herculean effort on the part of the faithful to ignore the fact that there's no reason to believe a God exists." -BillZBub

"Edited to add omitted preposition." -Seth351

"Even without the homophobia, Christianity - in common with Judaism and Islam, just to name two - is a supernaturalist belief system. As such, whatever it brings to the market of ideas will not be worth buying." -GrandPoohbahOf Irreverence (RDalin)

"Every excuse for belief without evidence is equally invalid whether it comes from an illiterate half-wit or a well-spoken college graduate, and that should make the college graduate very uncomfortable." - TwshNB

"Every parent expects their kids to stop believing in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, etc.; but for so many parents those kids had better not dare question the existence of their deity. It's fine to think for yourself, but only within certain boundaries." -LogicalSoul

"Every time some religionist five crayons short of a box comes here, I learn something new from the more knowledgeable folks on the forum, so keep them whackadoos coming." -NonProphet

"Everybody disagreeing with me all of a sudden. And here I was starting to think this was just a godless 'yes' factory." -Tatarize

"Everybody knows we should not steal and rape and kill. Only an idiot needs a truckload of robes and scrolls and magic symbols and books attached." -Crosshatch

"Everyone has their blind spots and clings to things they shouldn't. But religion relies on that and so they are based on exploiting those failings at their fundamental level. Any system that bases itself on human failings rather than human successes is fundamentally a stupid system." -Tony

"EVERYONE uses the Lord's name "in vain" - no matter how much you say it, he just ain't there." -Meow

"Everyone, stop sucking." -DreamerRach

"Everything is amazing to idiots. I'm starting to quickly stop caring what folks think is God. That whole, "Just give me proof and I'll look at it" thing we atheists do is getting to be a large waste of time." -Tatarize

"Exactly how ignorant are you? Sorry, that's not fair to you, and I withdraw the question. Approximately how ignorant are you?" -RevDave

"Faith conquers truth, reason, hope, decency, kindness, compassion and morality. Next to it is ignorance, which conquers anything that escapes faith." -AtheistKeith

"Faith is a refusal to allow reality to interfere with the lies one tells onesself." -RH3

"Faith is curable. Get well soon." -AtheistKeith

"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to a great gig as a right-wing editorialist." -DarkAngel

"Final notes: There is no god. The president is a douche [Bush II]. Everybody dies. Everybody rots."-Tatarize

"Finding it difficult to accept that people really can believe such preposterous religious stories, I am nagged by the idea that somewhere, maybe buried deeply in their subconscious, there must be this little voice squeaking "bullshit! bullshit!". -C12

"First, it was Motor Trend's Car Executive of the Year. Now it's the Nobel Peace Prize. I'm going to use my psychic powers and predict Obama will next win the MVP Award for the 2009 World Series." -Gonzo

"For any future discussion, I'm going to make a pre-emptive negative claim against anyone that thinks that my future thoughts and opinions are flawed. I said it first, so you are screwed, buddy." - DaBlue357

"For being a bunch of prudes, Christians breed like rabbits. And I swear it doesn't seem possible but there's only so much intellect between them and it gets thinner and thinner." - Tatarize

"For some reason, terrifying the British seems difficult. A lot of attempts have been made over the last hundred years or so, but Margaret Thatcher is the only one who succeeded." -RH3

"Forgive me. I need to do penance for all of the things I just thought of that I would like to do for penance." Abbeynormal

"Frankly, I think someone should evacuate the entire "holy land" and give it over to Disney to turn into a theme park -- perhaps something with a marsupial motif." -AtheistKeith

"Frankly, it's kinda sad to see such an intelligent, normally reasonable fellow's cognitive facilities brought so low by his subserviance to a religious meme, but it DOES help to illustrate the perniciousness of such memes, and I suppose for that I must thank you."-chip

"From my lengthy and involved experience with the christians, they actually don't read their bibles as much as they might claim. They do skip over the boring bits. They scratch their heads at the illogical bits. They ask their pastors to explain the unreasonable bits. Then the pastor will proclaim the doctrine that "explains" it all, and everybody goes home happy that all's well with the bible once again." -apostateofthelord

"From time to time I think about what I want to do with my life, and then I concentrate on doing those things. Sitting around complaining about how it sucks to have a serious illness isn't on my list. Nor is thinking about how lucky I am to be alive today on my list." Ericwoof

"Fundamentalists hang onto their beliefs by being steadfast to the whole Bible. Moderates hang on to theirs by reinventing it. I don't know who's beliefs I respect less." -Tayana42

"Fundingo is no fun if you have to keep crossing off the same square." -Saint Bengel

"Funny that people think that the emotions of bronze age men should be what runs the world." -Popsy

"Given the fact that they had thousands of years in which most people were totally illiterate in order to get their darn story straight and get down a book that wasn't riddled with errors and plotholes, I'm not impressed." -Aino

"God allows evil to prevent more evil. You see, it's a trade off that an all-powerful god doesn't really have to make." Tatarize

"God created a pot that he KNEW - BEFORE he created it - was going to put a hole in itself. This is the pot's fault. God will now punish the pot unless the pot kisses God's ass. THAT is an accurate summation of Xianity." -chip

"God creates evil, and that is fair? God tempts Adam and Eve who don't know good from evil, and that is fair? God murders and tells his followers to murder, and that is fair? The only thing that keeps your god from being an absolute monster is the fact that it doesn't exist." -FrankDK

"God died for YOUR sins?? Wow, do all the other xians know that God's dead? I bet they'll be pissed off at YOU." -chip

"God doesn't want to be our bitch. He wants us to love him and find rewards in his love, not use him when we need money or a new car." -knud87

"God is the greatest abortionist of all since 80% of pregnancies are miscarried. Add in the number of pregnancies that result in fundamentalist Christians and you can see how very few conceptions end up with a functioning human being at all." -mrbehemoth

"God is unnecessary for cruelty. It helps, of course, but it is not necessary." -Grahor

"God must be a television writer. Rather than making something original, he simply recycled an old script and changed a few lines." -Flux

"God so loved the world he gave [murdered] his only begotten son. I'm glad my parents don't love me that much." -Eljay

"God's momma is so fat, when she farts the universe is destroyed and reborn." -lahatte

"God, being entirely fictional, is a blank canvas upon which believers can paint whatever image pleases them. All are equally valid, which is to say not at all." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"Good - sometimes people need a metaphorical smack upside the head. Sacred cows need kicking, and I, for one, am proud to be in the boot-fcuking brigade." -Flux

"Good atheists and good theists give time and money to make the world a better place. The only difference is that some of the theists also spend time praying about it. Then there are those theists that only pray. I wouldn't call them good." -benmcd

"Has it occurred to any of you that the very people who tell you abstinence is 100% effective are the only people in the world who don't really believe that?" -Tatarize

"Hateful people believe in a hateful God, loving people believe in a loving God, and so on. It's about what should be expected if all gods are figments of people's imaginations." -DougOfCal

"Have you ever entertained the idea that some people have not sought evidence for God because they find that everything they have casually heard about God is exceedingly preposterous?" -Citizen12

"He reminds me of a ratty, semi-deflated soccer ball... Fun to kick around for a while, but ultimately unsatisfying." -Ozy666

"He sends Jesus to them, and then blinds them so that they don't recognize him? God is crazy." -RH3

"Heaven is wishful thinking combined with the conceit that one is too important to cease to exist." -groovyspaceman

"Heck, if I perceive that the Emperor has no clothes and I say so, it doesn't make me angry and rebellious, it just makes me...right. :-D" -J.Dean

"Here's one I haven't been able to work into a discussion yet: "Whether they come from Red states or Blue states is immaterial. All creationists are in the State of Denial." -Seeker

"Here's your daily reminder that you have failed yet again to substantiate ANY of your claims made in this thread - you merely reiterate and repeat your assertions without ANY support whatsoever. Your pockets are empty; your hands wave feebly in the air, trying to distract your audience with pitifully inadequate attempts at sleight-of-hand. You're like the proverbial naked Emperor, strutting and preening through the streets while the people point and laugh at you." -chip

"Hey, I have two more cases of metastatic cancer and one more thing of pancreatic cancer. I actually like my odds." -Tatarize

"Hey, I trust in God... to always give justification to those that need divine excuses." -MaxHarper

"His arguments are so preposterously bad that I would not be surprised if they become living entities and come to knock him on the head." -Anduin

"Hmm... come to think of it, maybe that is why they have to use the adjective "Christian", in "Christian love", "Christian charity", "Christian kindness": because they don't amount to what any objective observer would call "love", "charity", or "kindness"." -AtheistKeith

"Hooza cwever wittle twoll? Hoozee, den? You are! Yes, you are!" -Flux

"How about a 30-year-old energetic Black Pope? I think a lot of people are tired of being told how to run their lives by old, old, white men." -AndrewF4

"How can a "movement" have no goal? It cannot. And what is the goal of atheism? Sleeping in on Saturdays and Sundays and saving your knees for gardening?" -Mo

"How could anything irrational be truly moral? Without a logical basis there can't be any right or wrong, good or evil." -gclason

"How profound. So we should believe in Christianity because, even though we have no idea what it means, we can be vaguely certain that it means something?" -Mrbehemoth

"However, if we were to take the story of the serpant in the garden literally, we would find that the serpant was actually man's carnal mind." - Ginger09 (Christian)

"Humans don't have a "god-shaped void". Humans have a void that seeks knowledge. You have invented a void-shaped god and you no longer desire to seek knowledge." -lahatte

"I almost referred to my wife as 'mom' once. That I can still type is evidence of my ability to quickly swallow words before they come out." -Saint Bengel

"I always get drunk and lie around naked in my tent after I build a 450-foot boat and put two of every animal on the planet in it and then float around for five months" -Seth

"I always thought internet females were really 40 year old fat dudes that chain smoke and need a back wax." -Gakuct

"I am always amazed - foolishly, I think - when Christians come up with this "explanation" for a former Christian turning to non-belief. The whole process of holding to a position - any position - and then abandoning that position when presented with evidence to the contrary seems to entirely escape them. No, it can only be because you never really held that position in the first place." -Rdalin

"I am always both baffled by and suspicious of people who are not raised from infancy into insane beliefs, but assume them as mature and fully-functioning adult human beings." -mrbehemoth

"I am convinced that atheists and other free thinkers are not aware of the power of persuasion resident in a pulpit. We should not simply deride preachers as bizarre; they are powerful enemies of truth and rational thinking." -apostateofthelord

"I am currently reading about my tenth book in as many years on quantum physics for the layman. One day I hope to be able to explain to someone why nobody understands it, but first I have to misunderstand it properly myself." - David Fox

"I am not so impressed with myself that I should think myself to be so awesome that only a god could have made me. The flawed processes of nature are up to the challenge of making a flawed being such as me. For thinking this, Christians call me arrogant." -AtheistKeith

"I am the night. Kind of like Batman, only with more astronomy homework." -Jedi Ducky

"I became a vociferous atheist about 10 seconds after I was told what religion was, and about eight seconds after I laughed." -Tatarize

"I believe Billy Graham is financing a new documentary series on famous atheists entitled "Atheists: Homicidal Satanists or Drug-addicted Paedophiles?" So it'll be looking at the issue from both sides." -mrbehemoth

"I believe Christianity is ridiculous and not to be taken seriously, but that has nothing to do with atheism." - RDalin

"I believe facts are an important part of discussion. You either have accurate facts, or not much of anything else. Checking facts is a good place to start an examination of any idea or belief." -Tayana42

"I belong to a non-conformist sub-culture. Of course, so do you. It's so non-conformist you don't even have to join it to be a member." -mrbehemoth

"I bet you didn't know you could use your old wire hangers to dry your octopuses." -SnoopyLucy

"I came to realize that an appeal to faith could be used to justify anything at all. But, whatever can justify anything, actually justifies nothing. If you appeal to faith, you might as well say that you believe whatever you feel like believing. There is no difference." -DougofCal

"I can count the number of times I've doubted gravity on one hand... even if I worked in a wood shop and lost all my fingers." -Tatarize

"I can respect people's right to hold ridiculous beliefs. But respecting the beliefs? Absolutely not. I merely tolerate them, and in the interests of social grease, I try to keep my utter disrespect quiet." -Mo

"I can respect the beliefs of an individual who believes in god because of the beauty and complexity of the universe and yet makes no pretenses to know what or who god is (as Christians do). Any other beliefs regarding god I cannot respect". -jellomold2

"I can't answer for Chip, but name-calling always makes ME feel like a big man. Wanker." -mrbehemoth

"I can't even imagine some guy in the sky keeping track of everything I ever do in my life just to see if I'm good enough to hang out with him after I'm dead." -Teen meow (age 13)

"I can't even stand to go there. The only thing more annoying than the stupid things they post is the stupid things they must be thinking that they don't post." -dlove5duke

"I can't remember, are Mennonites the ones who hang down from the ceiling, or grow up from the floor?" -DeadWombat

"I cannot believe in a god that will not hold me responsible for my own sins, but that will hold me responsible for the sins of others." -Anduin

"I cannot tell whether it is real or parody. Just as any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, so is any sufficiently abysmal ignorance indistinguishable from "conservative" Christianity." -AtheistKeith

"I choose my enemies (and overall people I'm being an ass toward) with care, so that I could proudly say "never I conformed silently with the likes of them, their doings, ideas and ideals, but was an unrelenting ass toward them, and did all I could to improve the universe". -Grahor

"I considered a life of prostitution, but you know what they say: 'you can't sell what you can't give away'." - FrankDK

"I could have worded the speech so it could be read in about 3 seconds: "The Theory of Evolution is a scientific theory that pisses off fundamentalist Christians." -Citizen12

"I deal with death through the grieving process. I do not hold any sort of notion that the person exists as a spirit, or ghost, or shade. My memories of the person are not the person. Just as footprints in the sand are not the person who made the footprints." -Eljay

"I demand extraordinary evidence for the extraordinary claim that there is a church with a "strong intellectual side". -mrbehemoth

"I do believe this nation is a great one, but I am not interested in calling down the ancient sky fathers of Mesopotamia to bolster our good fortune. The politican's right to believe in nonsense is balanced nicely by the voters' collective responsibility to elect rational agents into office." -CivilizeMe

"I do have standards. They're almost low enough to be called sub-standards, but they're there." -GrandPoohbahOfIrreverence (RDalin)

"I do not now and have never acepted the proposition that suffering is enobling. Personally,I'd like to see the moron who came up with "no pain no gain" eaten alive by wild dogs." -TSShagnasty

"I do realise there is a segment of the population that does not believe that anyone whose career ended less than a hundred years ago can be considered a genuine artist, but I don't find it that compelling. Jackson was in a different category to Beethoven, but both were true artists, both had enormous cultural impact, and Jackson wrote better lyrics." -mrbehemoth

"I do shave my head frequently, which is, in a sense, a denial of my male-pattern baldness because I'm hoping people will think I'm eccentric rather than over the hill." -Mrreindeer

"I don't accept that faith is an acceptable means of acquiring information. I don't believe in gods or the supernatural. I do believe that humanity is the source of all that is good and evil in this world, and I believe in working to make this world a heaven for all people to enjoy, not just those who know the secret password." -JAlanBrown

"I don't believe in God in the least, as the word is generally applied, but sometimes I look at some of the more heinous crap that occurs from the hand of Man AND in the world of Nature, and think: there MUST be an evil, sadistic a-hole behind all this." -Crosshatch

"I don't care how valiantly Christians struggle to love me despite the fact that I'm gay, because I don't acknowledge their right to have a problem with it." -Keepwe

"I don't debate creationism with adults for the same reason that I don't debate the existence of the Easter Bunny with adults. Your refusal to accept reality is what needs to be discussed, rather than others acting like your refusing to accept reality means reality is dubious enough for adult debate." -AtheistKeith

"I don't dismiss the possibility. I do dismiss, on grounds of lack of justification, any assertion that it is unreasonable to doubt the existence of a supreme being. Doubt is not equivalent to dismissal." -DougofCal

"I don't get it. The story says the statue has only one breast exposed but I see two giant boobs in that photo... oh, never mind, one of them's Ashcroft." -Mrreindeer

"I don't get your point. Are you saying you're a bigot, but you like black people from Lesotho?" -Jen(ADMJenny)

"I don't know about anybody else, but when I want to ward off something, I always use my personality." -benmcd

"I don't know about you, but I don't feel comfortable allowing the government to decide what kinds of indoctrination are harmful in a world where atheists are considered among the most immoral people in existence." -Rillion

"I don't know that nature "feels" anything. I just think if some insist on finding a reason in nature for homosexuality to exist, then that is one possible explanation. Of course, homosexuality is probably also nature's way of making the world more fabulous." -Boverbearing

"I don't know which is worse, postmodernism or Christian fundamentalism. They both have pretty nasty consequences for the intellect." -DougofCal

"I don't let Bronze Age blood sacrificers do my thinking for me. They knew what G-d was thinking and saw fit to deputize themselves as "His" messengers, but flush toilets never occurred to them." Crosshatch

"I don't like Adventists. I would take ten Episcopalians over an Adventist. Second Advent indeed. End of the world my ass." - Tatarize

"I don't pretend to know something you don't know. I just accept reality a little differently" -ginger09 (theist)

"I don't see what difference it makes. Preaching is all about spouting bull$hit to the gullible anyway. What does it matter if the guy making a fool of you knows he is spouting BS or not? You are still the fool." -C12

"I don't think creationists are trying to prove their point. I think they're just trying to silence the opposition. It's not about what is right, it's about who is right." -Kato

"I don't think it should be mandatory. I think enough completely ignorant people vote already, without legally requiring them to do so." -Rillion

"I don't think of Mormonism - or any form of politically meddling xtianity - as 'growing' so much as 'metastasizing'." - Michael G (ElJudioBravo)

"I don't think there's even a shred of doubt that Saddam was considering initiating contemplation of thoughts of weapons-related program activity-associated discussions." -mrbehemoth

"I emailed the new Christianity-General moderator and asked to be gagged immediately just in case I post there by accident, because I had no desire to contribute anything to the site.. No reply yet." -DeadWombat

"I find atheists a lot more tolerant of ideas than most theists even if they don't agree with them. I have never been given a pamphlet on the street by an atheist. I have never had one ring my doorbell and harangue me about why I shouldn't believe whatever it is I believe." -nganga2

"I firmly believe that when a good HIV vaccine comes to market that there's going to be huge protests by the religious right." -Tatarize

"I found a neatly cut half of a sandwich in my couch cushions one time. The lettuce and pickles were all in place. I was living by myself at the time, and had no one to blame, but I couldnÂ’t remember ever missing part of a sandwich." - Tayana

"I friggin' can't stand someone going on about being a persecuted christian when people don't hate them for being a christian, they hate them for being a flaming hemorrhoid." -NonProphet

"I get the impression that all this talk is to try to evade the raw truth that Early Christian writers were liars and forgers." -RH3

"I give it a free pass now. Much in the same way the U.S. Senate is made up of 100 Senators, I consider the Trinitarian Christian god to be a three-comprise-the-one godhead." -Eljay

"I have a friend who got pregnant by buying Barry White's old mattress at a garage sale." -mrbehemoth

"I have almost made it all the way through Duck Soup. The funniest part to me is how nobody seems to notice the Marx brothers are actually insane and treat them like they are legitimate members of society. Sort of like Kim Jong-Il." -snoopylucy

"I have an extensive collection of weird music. I would like to see a porn movie made to polka music." -SnoopyLucy

"I have been back before the Big Bang and discovered that FC was right: there WAS no Big Bang. This universe was started because the last one exploded when two men married each other." -MrBehemoth

"I have his posters all over my bedroom walls hes just the dreemiest, cutest boi EVER! once i went to one of his masses and i sware on my dogs life and you no how much i luv my dog, but neway i sware benedict looked STRAIGHT AT ME omg i nearly died he is so gorjus catholicism roxorz!!!!!!!!!!!!" -mrbehemoth

"I have maintained for a long time now that Bush could litter the whitehouse lawn with the discarded bodies of underage male crackwhores that he had used up and would still suffer ZERO political fallout." -chip

"I have no doubt that you command respect, since based on the contents of your posts it's extremely unlikely that you could ever earn it." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"I have no interest in writing down an inventory of everything I havenÂ’t thought of." -Tayana

"I have struggled for years to work the phrase "jerk-off" into a post and have so far failed." -ptcarnahan

"I have to be suspicious that fundamentalist Christinity has paid a far greater role in stymying scientific research in America as well as dumbing down the education system in general, because the religiosity has for several decades apparently had much greater influence than the political system has been willing to admit." -DarwiniaStill

"I have to chastise you for posting something with an iota of content. Albeit a refreshing departure from your regular posts, such posts may besmirch your finely honed reputation." -Eljay

"I have to think the world would be a better place if competition for the Darwin Awards was not so intense." -Citizen12

"I have you on ignore because your posts are equivalent to textual flatulence." -Eljay

"I heard a rumor that 2+2 equaled four. It turned out it was true, so all rumors are true." -Tatarize

"I hope I live to see the day when the Bible can be taught in public. In a mythology class, alongside Greek, Roman and Norse mythologies." -curtt

"I just can't quite understand why, with a an infinite world of things that actually exist - people have a burning need to insist that there's something "else." -Crosshatch

"I just can't stand the knee jerk reaction to criticism of anything Jewish or Israeli as anti-Semitic. It is an attempt to cut off legitimate discussion about some negative instances and occurrences with threats of labeling someone a bigot. It is unproductive and nothing but an avoidance technique." -Tony

"I just can't wait for the Lord to reward my good Christian life by giving me a pitchfork to stick into you." -J316

"I keep some pigs around and whenever I find a demon I cast it into one of the pigs and drive it over a cliff. If more people did this it would reduce the violent crime rate." -khorton

"I kind of like militant atheism. The Christians are horrified that such people dare to speak out and they scurry around like ants being stirred with a stick. It doesn't bother me in the least, and I am the nicest person you will never meet." -kerryh9

"I knew a guy with a mohawk once - he had to sleep with it between album covers with bricks flattening it out. I was impressed at his dedication to his hairstyle. His hair was green, too. Now he just looks normal and walks dogs for a living."-SnoopyLucy

"I know it doesn't matter what I hope for and what I don't, but, like a month or so back when Alabama's governor asked that everybody pray for rain, rather than presumably hiring professional raindancers... well, that made me want Alabama to never get rain." -Tatarize

"I know its bound to happen with buildings like the Burj Dubai going up. The gods are going to come and stir up our languages again. I just know it." -AtheistKeith

"I know this is evil of me, but I like seeing all-wheel drive vehicles in the ditch in icy conditions. Not if it looks like a serious accident, of course, but I like to see a big truck with cosmetic damage and an asshoIe that will be late to an appointment." -benmcd

"I like Rammstein. I just don't understand how you think Norwegian black metal happens to be related to German industrial electronica." -DarkAngel

"I like the term YouTuber when it refers to someone who has the insight and intelligence of a potato." -nganga2

"I like this metaphor... it allows me to describe my previous relationships in terms of models of cars. I've dated a couple of SUV's in my time, a few econo-boxes, and one or two hybrids." -Rillion

"I love black comedy. I think the Bush administration is hilarious." -TSShagnasty

"I love the typical Christian double-think of 'We are the majority' plus 'We are persecuted'. I, personally, have trouble holding two such contradictory thoughts at the same time without my head exploding." -Queen Maeve

"I measure success in life by the number and quality of the adventures. On my deathbed, itÂ’s how I plan to keep score." -EasyD2

"I must say, morality based on reasoning is a lovely thing to behold. It is so much richer than the bland "God said so" rules which front as moral systems." -Citizen12

"I never exaggerate. Total accuracy or bald-faced lies, that's me." -mrbehemoth

"I never liked role-playing. I prefer mechanical, joyless sex in pitch blackness, preferably through a sheet as our Lord intended." -mrbehemoth

"I never really thought of myself as vitriolic, just really, really unpleasant to be around." -mrbehemoth

"I once considered blasphemy to be a most heinous act; nowadays, I consider blasphemy a form of poetry to be studied and mastered." -AtheistKeith

"I only bring it up because the forum is pretty down on post modernism, mostly because the recursive metaphorical themes of the intercalary transcendental actualization of the community is negatively inclined." -Tatarize

"I plead guilty as charged to being a cafeteria Christian. I'll have a generous portion of the abundant life and leave rebuke and scourging for you." -John76

"I prefer Benny Hill to Adam Sandler because Benny Hill is dead." -mrbehemoth

"I question a person's ability to "participate in another's suffering" without actually doing anything to help them. If that is compassion, then it is empty compassion....worthless and possibly even harmful. True compassion, to me, is the motivation plus action which is in keeping with the source of the motivation." -Rillion

"I really don't see much of a difference between this talking to God and someone who says he has conversations with Napoleon. The only exception being that they have a padded room for the latter." - Saint Bengel

"I really think very few people actually Really believe without evidence. They have their evidence. They rationalize some mental processes and derive their own evidence by referring to some past percieved experience. I'm not talking about the people that claim to be believers but never give it a thought. I mean the people that really pray and talk to their god and really believe. The passionate ones, I suppose." -lahatte

"I really thought we'd have come farther by now in terms of an Everyman's working cosmology. There are so many people walking around with ipods and iphones and all that stuff, thinking they're so "modern," who seem perfectly content to parrot the strange ideas of polygamist herdsmen animal sacrificers from the ox-cart era." -Crosshatch

"I respect faith in the same way I respect a hurricane. I expect it to do some damage, I wish I could prevent it, but I can't." -FrankDK

"I saw a god. He was beautiful. He was about 20 feet long, shining in the sunlight, ploughing effortlessly through the harbour. Well, technically it wasn't a god, it was a yacht, but you get my drift." -mrbehemoth

"I see an interesting symmetry here. Many believers think that anyone who thinks the Bible isn't true must not have read it. Many skeptics think that anyone who thinks the Bible is true must not have read it." - DougOfCal

"I see nature in nature. What is it about nature that makes you say you see God in nature?" -RH3

"I sometimes take an unhealthy pride in being an atheist before reminding myself that not falling for the absurd is not really much of an accomplishment." -Unregistered

"I sometimes think every book has already been written, but every year a lot more are published, so I guess not." -SnoopyLucy

"I stopped googling my nickname when all that came up were some old posts on a serious porn forum." -Deadwombat

"I suppose it's only fair that American cigarettes get in to heaven, because their beer sure isn't going to." -Flux

"I suspect that for many, the label 'logic' just denotes a big bucket that you can dump into anything that fits the category of 'persuasive' or 'reasonable' even if it's only shallowly so." - Arjaypet

"I tend to suspect that when people use the term "closed-minded" they are talking about those people who do not believe in something that they hold dear." -Anduin

"I think Creationists result from indoctrination and a lack of education in critical-thinking skills. I believe they are victims more than anything else. One has to consider that the thought processes encouraged by some types of theistic indoctrination have much greater deleterious effects on their lives than does a rejection of the theory of bio-evolution." -Citizen12

"I think his bus is so short it's collapsed into a singularity of stupid." -Jedi Ducky

"I think insurance companies should sell something like "Jesus Supplemental" policies. They would only cover situations where Jesus did not save people, their homes, their cars, etc. They could be sold at a greatly reduced rate." -Tayana42

"I think it is funny that you assume that I am sane. Embrace the insanity. Hold it close and call it 'George'." -Deadwombat

"I think it's called ASCII art. I remember the first time I heard someone talking about ASCII. I thought they were saying "a$$ key". It had me completely baffled." -SnoopyLucy

"I think it's funny that so many arguments about the morality of homosexuality forget lesbians exist. It belies the fact that many people's objection to male homosexuality lies in a distorted view of gender roles and masculinity." -Glamrawk

"I think it's like a prayer cloth. You pin it to yourself to recieve god's blessing or protection and to gain his wisdom for whatever problem you are having. So you see, there is nothing superstitious about christianity." - Jenbo47

"I think one of the cruelest things that we can do to our fellow travelers is the false offering of love to them while taking away our respect for them and their own dignity. An example of that twisted ethic might be "Love the sinner, but hate the sin". -ptcarnahan

"I think one of the heights of conflict will be when the Texas Legislature starts burning Wiccans at the stake. I've already pre-ordered bleachers to be placed around the Texas border and will be selling popcorn. Someone should make some coinage off this and it might as well be me." -MartiniStraightUp

"I think that even if belief in the supernatural, God, or whatever could be more or less done away with, there'll almost surely be someone who thinks that his team lost because he forgot to wear his lucky underpants." -Superhop

"I think that religion in particular has co-opted the truly humanistic term spirituality and made it mundane and irrelevant. Whenever someone asks me about it, I keep the conversation focused on the things that each of us has in common - we are alive here and now and we are human." -Bean

"I think the existence of morality is contingent only upon the existence of beings that conceive it... much like God." -Seth

"I think the whole world is at war with irrationality. The problem is that where the battle lines on everybody's maps seem to separate Christians from Muslims, the irrationals are the only ones fighting on either side."-Doug of Cal.

"I think there's an old copy of the bible somewhere in the attic, but I think it's probably out of date by now." -Great_Uncle_Crackhead

"I think they are all wrong. The nucleus is clearly held together by the brains of Young Earth Creationists which are very, very small and, although things gather around those brains, nothing ever penetrates them. They are perfect for holding nuclei together." -Atheist Keith

"I think you are mistaking me for you, Mr. Normative Objectivist Descriptive Relativistic Absolutist Universalist obfuscater." -Lynne (SmartFemale)

"I think you need to contemplate the fact that you are so extraordinarily stupid that expressing your ignorant views in public is an act of criminal negligence." -Mo

"I thought the main tenet of Western Buddhism is that the source of all suffering is varmints".- MrBehemoth

"I try not to think about the number of hours I spent walking up and down in the middle of the night, cuddling and singing (!) to RH4 in attempt to get him to sleep. Now it just requires 473 stories, a long discussion about the abilities of various robots, and a very large mallet." -RH3

"I understand the appeal of libertarianism and in a perfect world I'd be a libertarian, but so long as where you start life is the best predictor of where you'll end up in life, I just don't get it. If the playing field is so uneven and there are such vast differences in the opportunities people have based on the socio-economic status they're born into, it just seems like there must be a role for society as a whole to open opportunities for the disadvantaged." -Aino

"I walk on a track most days with a stick, and I always draw a little Happy Face with a "Hi!" next to it for whoever comes along later. Sometimes there will be a "Hi!" in response, sometimes it is untouched, but quite often it has been deliberately scuffed out. Once someone wrote a Bad Word. If I was a psychology major this would be my thesis." -SnoopyLucy

"I want the most true beliefs and the fewest false beliefs. If you don't want that for yourself, oh well... I hope you get gored by a unicorn." -Tatarize

"I want to add one more now, too: 'Red Barchetta' by Rush. Not only is it a great driving song, but it's a song *about* driving; but not merely driving. No, it's about driving against The Man." -Beelzehost

"I want to get a t-shirt showing Che Guevara wearing a t-shirt with my face on it." -Mrreindeer

"I want to see the Sopranos and Deadwood without all the Goddamn cussing. I think it gives children a negative impression of mobsters and whoremongers." -Icky

"I want you to try to imagine how little your opinion of me matters to me. I'll get you started: think 'Planck length' and go smaller." -Flux(55A)

"I was at a party a while back, and a woman asked me if I believed in original sin. I replied, "It depends. How original do you want to be?" -FrankDK

"I was going to write something rude, but then an uncharacteristic wave of compassion came over me and I thought "No, this one is a well-meaning simpleton. I'll let it pass." -RH3

"I was in Hollywood in '96 and saw a set of size 15 red high heeled strap up pumps in a transvestite supply shop. I nearly bought them, even though I am not gay, just so I could have them if I did turn gay, because I felt I would never get shoes like that again." -DeadWombat

"I was just admiring her ability to not only be inaccurate, but to be diametrically opposed to reality." -MrBehemoth

"I was mired in rhetoric once. I had to call Roadside Semantics to get me out". -mrbehemoth

"I was thinking of working at this soup kitchen to earn some God points and weasel my way into Heaven, but then I recalled there wasn't any heaven so I started beating some homeless guys with a chair and blew my head off." -Tatarize

"I was told that some of the residents of New Orleans went ahead and staged a mini Southern Decadence party under a banner that said, "Hey, God, you missed a spot"." -glacson

"I was wondering earlier if it was possible for you to integrate new knowledge into your worldview. It appears that you are unable to do so. I wonder why you are unable? Do you have any insight to offer concerning your inability to learn?" -Chip

"I wasn't going to [run for president], and couldn't anyway. RH4 might (he's a U.S. citizen) but I'd rather he took up something a bit more honourable, such as marine biology or pimping." -RH3

"I wasn't telling you to go to hell, I was telling you what "perish" means in the biblical context, but if you don't repent you will go to hell. Anyways, God bless you." -JTRivero

"I watched a bit of Survivor, but only because that was what the people who had control of the bong were watching." -xyz

"I went to a seminar at my lab on the topic of sparse network matricies and linear algebra. I thought it sounded like an exciting topic, but few people showed up". - Erikwoof

"I will admit that if God shows up at my door with a quarter pounder, I'm converting." -mrbehemoth

"I will follow wherever the evidence takes me. I just object to proceding in advance of the evidence." -Kate Towner

"I will never truly understand why anyone would push aside their humanity and their good sense in order to follow a religion." -C12

"I wonder when these dingbat Christians who push these types of laws are going to realize they don't need a law to enable them to perform the internal mind function that is called 'praying'." -Rev.Martini

"I would expect Atheist Barbie to be a brunette (no good reason)." -(MadScientis1)

"I would not accuse you of lying - but let us say that you are a little conservative with honesty occasionally."- EuropaXS

"I would suggest you try another method of avoiding insults, such as making an effort to not deserve them." -mrbehemoth

"I would tip my hat to you if I wore one or proclaim "Huzzah and kudoes!" loudly if I said stupid things blithely." -Ibn Tumart

"I wouldn't venture to say that there would be no wars or conflicts without religion. However, I think religion is a very common and easy excuse for hostilities and taking away one of the hooks on which the agressor can hang his hat might leave more room for the peacemakers' voices to be heard." -Fox

"I'd define 'god' as a fictional character that inspires people to pseudo-intellectual maundering and intrepid flights of equivocation."- Elmeraho

"I'd forgive you, but I don't have an only begotten son to sacrifice. Sorry." -Seth351

"I'd rather be among British people than with the finest people on earth." -SnoopyLucy

"I'd rather take comfort in the fact that, like me, other atheists typically believe that this life is all she wrote, that secular humanism is a superior philosophy to that of any religion, and that evolution satisfactorily explains the origin of life, with no need for the intervention of intelligent deities." -SmartFemale

"I'll concede that Catholic dogma has been adaptive in our co-evolution with various parasites. As to the evolutionary basis of religion, I prefer (ironically enough) the spandrel theory. But let's say religion has been adaptive in our social evolution - that is to say it's produced more people, not justice or happiness." -Adrian

"I'll deny all things supernatural except for baseball superstitions. That's how I fill my spiritual void. So I am absolutely certain there is no God, but if you mention that a pitcher is working on a no-hitter before the last pitch is thrown, you will jinx him and that's really a rotten thing to do." -Mrreindeer

"I'm a materialist. What cannot be measured or otherwise show evidence of existence may as well not exist, as it has no effect on that which does. If it did, that effect would be evidence." -Longstreet63

"I'm actually more inclined to eat octopus after finding out how smart they are, because I don't think we should give 'em an inch." -mrbehemoth

"I'm afraid I don't accept that "Christianity" is logically coherent enough that I could, with a straight face, lecture Christians on what they're "supposed" to do. I just keep my fingers crossed that they pick up on some of the more liberal, beatitudy bits and remain oblivious to the misogynist bits, of which there are plenty. Ditto for the homophobic bits and the pro-slavery bits and the anti-scientific bits." -Keepwe

"I'm always amused when I see men proclaiming "We're having a baby!" in reference to their freshly pregnant wife. I regard it in the same sense as some drunken, half-naked, sun burned Yankees fan in the bleachers saying "We won the pennant!" -Gonzo

"I'm ashamed of us - lobbying with the moderators to ban/gag someone because he's annoying...OK, very annoying...OK, extremely annoying. But what happened to the good, old-fashioned dog pile?" -Seth

"I'm assuming that English is not your native language, so I'll eschew comment on your syntax." - FRANKDK

"I'm beginning to suspect that religious people who compare God with fathers must have had really crappy fathers." -RH3

"I'm getting rather tired of Christian arm chair physicists waving their hands around in the air, muttering about the "mysteries of QM" and invoking a similar mystery for their god. If God were understood as well as quantum mechanics, we would have already miniaturized him and put him in a device to carry around on our wrists." -Ozy666

"I'm more interesting in discussing the morality of the god depicted in the Bible. For example, I find discussing the morality of forcing rape victims to marry their rapists, of cutting off women's hands for rescuing their husband by hitting an attacker in the groin, or of forcing wives to drink magic adultery-detection cursed potions if their husband becomes jealous. I just find these conversations more interesting than tedious discourses about the fact that the Bible has abysmal historical value or the fact that it is replete with contradictions." -AtheistKeith

"I'm not bragging or anything, because, as I like to say, "I'm just a sock puppet with the Universe up my ass, but even as a kid I asked questions like: "Where did 'God' stand when he made everything?" -Crosshatch

"I'm not judging you. I'm just telling you that God says you're going to hell". - chip

"I'm not prepared to be offended by anyone expressing their personal beliefs, even if they are government officials. They can say they believe in ghosts too, so long as I'm not required to do anything about it. Proclaiming false beliefs that have no consequence isn't rude, it's embarrassing." -Roylatham

"I'm really starting to wonder if you're only an atheist because you fail to understand religion in the first place. I mean, it doesn't seem like you have the logical facilities to reason your way out." -Tatarize

"I'm sorry, but I can see absolutely no value in unprovable/unfalsifiable BS like solpisism or postmodernism. If YOU want to go around thinking that you might possibly be a small blue soapdish, be my guest. But please don't waste my time by trying to get me to join you."-chip

"I'm sure I must have said something interesting since I've been here. But at the moment I can't think what it was." Kate Towner

"I'm surprised this isn't more obvious to more people: you come across a watch in the forest, and you know it's designed, because it's so unlike the rocks and trees in the forest...therefore the rocks and trees must be designed." -mrbehemoth

"I'm toying with the notion that God is a 400-pound yellow canary." -mymallandnew

"I'm with the others who say that atheism is a default status one acquires when theism fails us. We don't choose to become atheists, it is just a by-product of discovering that there aren't any gods." -AtheistKeith

"I've always wanted to see a tanker filled with human waste crash into a pokemon factory and explode." -TSShagnasty

"I've become convinced that the secret to such a near-utopia would be the universal recognition that all humans share a common bond of humanity that transcends more superficial cultural differences." -smartfemale

"I've been feeling a whole lot of that lately. It's gotten so that when it comes to engaging fundies, the shine ain't worth the spit." -chip

"I've found kids have an amazing talent for pushing you so far that you magically become a complete tyrant." -MrBehemoth

"I've had a can of Spam for months now! Really I do. I just haven't found the right moment to eat it yet." -MaxHarper

"I've had my moments, but a few people have gone through plenty of hurting on my account. As to which way the scale is going to tip, I'm the last person who should try to judge. I'm still just trying to give it my best shot, which is all that any of us can do." -DougofCal

"I've lost count of the number of things I've memorized." -Tatarize

"I've never had much use for philosophy or its positions. The Kama Sutra has much better ones." -Gonzo

"I've read most of the bible, in bits and pieces over the years. It's really terrible and nonsensical writing. Sitting down and trying to read the whole thing would just give me more reason to not even consider it a decent story." - Mags

"I, for one, appreciate your reducing your font size. You're still a raving lunatic, but at least you're not raving so loudly anymore. That's progress." -Queen Maeve

"If a fundie is cut in half, which half won't shut up?" -mrbehemoth

"If believers and skeptics alike could ever get past the fallacious arguments that they both love so much, then just maybe they could figure out which, if either, side has any valid arguments left." -DougOfCal

"If by 'stir things up' you mean 'elicit uproarious laughter,' well, you've stirred things up." -Best Peasant (Curtt)

"If evolution has shown that many of our physical faults are the product of chance and are not reflective of our value as people, has it not elevated the moral condition of man? Does liberating ourselves from the stupid superstition that illness is proof of a lack of character not have great moral value?" -Aino

"If fear of punishment is the only restraint on your conduct, then you are morally deficient. You should study Confucianism, Stoicism, or Buddhism, instead of Christianity. They might develop a little moral sense in you." -RH3

"If God can do anything, can He make a copyright that He can't infringe?" - SnoopyLucy

"If God set up the natural order, and he is a moral agent, all the natural evil is his fault and is actually moral evil. There is no really popular justification for God's cruelty and those excuses which have been offered concentrate on the effects on the human race. Christian theologians seem not to care about the suffering of non-humans." -RH3

"If I didn't already think the Catholic hierarchy are the most evil bastards on the planet, I might start thinking they are the most evil bastards on the planet." -C12

"If I said that God told me you were wrong, how would we figure out which one of us was crazy?" -Rev. Martini

"If I want science I'll read science books. And if I want a badly hobbled together mish mash of the worst of the Jewish religion and various pagan traditions with some rather amusing erotic poetry here and there... I'll read the bible." -maxharper

"If I were a genius I'd invent a way to turn posts like that into something useful, then at least I could spread it round the garden and maybe get some decent roses this year." -RevDave

"If I were a sadist I would advocate making illegal something totally innocuous, like... peanut butter, say, and see how long it takes before it becomes identified as a "dangerous element" that people deal on the streets for outrageous amounts of money and kill each other to get, and people start saying "You can't legalize peanut butter - look at all of the crime associated with it!"- Rillion

"If I were God, I'd ensure that everyone used the subjunctive." -Mo

"If it wasn't for people like you who think it's wrong, homosexuality wouldn't be any more awkward than being left-handed is." -LtPowers

"If it were true that God will punish me for not believing in him, I still wouldn't gamble on it because the very game itself is appalling. I would no more swear allegiance to such a God than I would swear allegiance to a dictator who promised my safety if I will help him exterminate his enemies." -JAlanBrown

"If it's all about belief: anything is possible, quite a lot probable and the silliest is certain." -Georg

"If language evolves, where are the transitional dictionaries?" -mrbehemoth

"If liking SpongeBob will make me gay, then so be it. Take me to Bikini Bottom and make me gay." -Beelzehost

"If Newt becomes President, we most surely would be eft." -Best Peasant

"If not for theists, I might well just be a weak atheist about the position. The assumption demands that every theist in the world be constantly wrong. And really the belief has paid huge dividends and constantly finds itself accurately predicting the failures of huge groups of people." -Tatarize

"If one does the right thing often enough, then one is going to be ripped off every once in a while. Anyone whose personal policy is to guarantee that never happens is not being charitable enough." -DougofCal

"If simple faith were a health benefit, the bible belt of the U.S. would not have the country's overall highest rates of obesity, heart disease, high cholesterol, and diabetes." -Flux

"If someone makes stupid and idiotic statements, they deserve to be insulted. And degraded. (And vilified and laughed at). It's only right, and I do so believe in justice." -gclason

"If the whole 'what the word "gay" means' discussion escapes them, just throw in the towel and say 'Well, you know, Jesus was gay. He had twelve male friends, they ate of his body... gay. Obviously gay. Flaming gay. Even more gay than Elton John -- Jesus was Liberace gay'." -Eljay

"If then, your method is a useful means of determining the truth, please tell me some great mystery that was solved by faith, sans evidence." -AtheistKeith

"If there is a dog poop - pornonography connection, I hope to go the grave without hearing about it." -SnoopyLucy

"If there is a hell, it is staffed not by pyrotechnicians, but by philosophy majors." -AtheistKeith

"If there were a God, George W. would vomit on someone important during the big G8 banquet." -Mrreindeer

"If there's anything the NRA has taught me, it's that automatic weapons don't kill people; atheists kill people." -benmcd

"If we liked talking to angry people, we'd pray." -mrbehemoth

"If we're going to start litigating lawsuits for the coyote ugly types, then, let's face it: the entire state of Mississippi may as well be in court." -Reshuffle

"If you actively maintain delusions, then you are delusional. It doesn't matter if only one person believes the delusions or everyone on earth. A delusion does not suddenly become a truth if only enough people believe it." -AtheistKeith

"If you are saying that I am a "fundamentalist" atheist, then you are mistaken. It is impossible to be a fundamentalist atheist because there are no fundamentals to fundament over." -Lahatte

"If you end up saying "God has no objective purpose, God just IS" - and at some point in the concentric circles of meaning, you must then understand why atheists like myself say "Life has no objective purpose - life just IS." -Mo

"If you find yourself unable to determine whether you exist, I think you might want to take a few less "soft subjects" next semester. Maybe take some business courses or something." -AtheistKeith

"If you read the Bible you'd know that marriage is between one man, several women, various concubines, and the occasional dead brother's wife." -Tatarize

"If you really think that your morals came from the bible, consider this - the morals you have and the morals from other Christians from other times and cultures are vastly different. I'm not talking about minor changes, but on important issues like women's rights, slavery, war, murder, child rearing and other primal issues. Differences of night and day. And they all had the same book that they claimed had their moral guidelines." -MaxHarper

"If you say you can produce scripture that says the sky is blue, producing scripture that talks about the color of the ocean doesn't count." -C12

"If you want to see out of control emotions from men, all you need do is attend a sporting event, a political contest, or a war." -Rillion

"If you want to think that a man lived in a whale or that Noah rounded up polar bears and penguins and Cocker Spaniels, that's your business, but do you really expect people to believe that stuff who aren't afraid not to?" -Crosshatch

"If you're going to be an inerrantist, you've got to know how to figure out when the Bible means just what it says and when it means whatever you can read between the lines." -DougOfCal

"If you're talking about an omnipotent god who loves all of humanity and wants all of humanity to know that he loves them, just open your eyes to the world around you. The evidence of that god's nonexistence is everywhere, and it has been everywhere throughout all human history." - DougofCal

"If your faith is so weak that you have to shield your child from the very idea that some people think differently, then it's time for you to closely examine what you believe." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"If your God depends on the modern day version of belief in a flat earth, it's doomed. These are not the Dark Ages - at least for anyone who dares to think." -Mo

"If your opponent doesnÂ’t know any Greek (and he usually doesnÂ’t) you can demonstrate that you do, and thereafter adopt the manner of a professor debating with an unlettered peasant whose boots are coated with agricultural by-product.Not fair, of course, but terribly satisfying. Your smugness quotient goes up from 'objectionable' to 'absolutely intolerable'." -RH3

"In '91 I went on a business trip to Saudi Arabia. The visa application had an entry for religion. I entered "none". The next day, my supervisor informed me that I had become Baptist." -Seth351

"In addition, the evil perpetrated by Abrahamic religions is such that once doubt about their god enters their brain, the good person, the ethical person, the kind, caring person is forced to see them as distasteful." -xolo

"In America we don't have any special beetles for our dung. Our dung just lays there without a beetle being interested in rolling it into a ball." -SnoopyLucy

"In case you haven't figured it out this may not be the most comfortable place to broadcast harebrained ideas. We will pick the corpse of your credibility clean." -C12

"In fact, I think faith properly understood is a powerful argument for strong atheism with respect to the God of Christianity. I don't happen to believe in the existence of a God, but if there is a benevolent God who has escaped my notice, I have faith in Him not to do anything so unutterably stupid as send me important information concerning my salvation through an evangelical cult such as Christianity whose members are confused about the difference between faith in God and faith in Christians." -Keepwe

"In many parts of the world, if I speak to a cat in English, it pays no attention, but if I use Welsh or the local language (if I know the local language) it ignores me in the way cats ignore you when they want you to know that they are ignoring you." -RH3

"In real life I don't often meet Christians, but I think that's not so much because I'm an atheist as it is because I live in England. We've pretty much been there, done it with the whole religion thing, and everything seemed to get better around the time the real nutters left on the Mayflower." -RevDave

"In short, you're no different from every new-age crackpot (paging Deepak Chopra) who claims their irrational beliefs are scientific because they're explainable by 'quantum mechanics', even though, in a similar excuse, 'the specific details are not known'." -Flux(55A)

"In the big scheme of things, it wasn't much of a sacrifice. One bad weekend; less trauma than the little girl who was kidnapped and raped over years by her father in Austria. Less trauma than hundreds and thousands of people in the world every year throughout history." -Readzalot

"In the end, I suppose that is the reason that religious leaders cannot, absolutely cannot empower their congregations with the capacity for freethought. They don't want it. They go to church to receive a specific service - conviction, catharsis, and the irrational reassurance that the money and time they are committing to the church will ensure that the pain and struggle they encounter in this life will have been worth it, rewarded in an afterlife of eternal reward and guiltless ecstasy. If they don't receive this service from one minister, they will go shopping for another." -cyberdigital

"In the end, if the nation's integrity survives, this all might turn out to have been like getting a case of the measles. The disease hurt, but it is nice to have the antibodies it engendered." -Citizen12

"In the spirit of finding something nice to say about everyone, I do note that, at the very least, you're honest enough to admit you're a closed-minded ignoramus." -Flux

"In this, the Church is responsible for crimes against humanity, as well as the working class, which are unforgivable. It is the duty of all moral human beings to oppose such an institution, and even to dance on its ashes." -DarkAngel

"Indulging in self-delusional and cherished fantasy saves no one. It is an abdication of responsibility and reality, and a surrender to irrationality and psychosis." -Eljay

"Interesting that several of us seem to approve of the idea of blowing people up. We just differ a bit about whom to blow up." -RH3

"Ironically, I would think if a god of some sort actually existed, atheism brings one closer to god, as it is very evident to me that this god does not want mankind to know it exists, and therefore atheists are one step closer to understanding god's grand plan." -jellomold2

"Is 'Christianity' under attack in the U.S.? No, just Christian privilege." -Flux(55A)

"Is it possible to care less than not at all about other peoples' sex lives or lack thereof? That's my position. Not caring at all doesn't quite describe or equal the intensity of my indifference." -Crosshatch

"Isn't it strange that the same people who claim to be creations in the image of their god are those who usually find the bodies their god supposedly created somehow bad and shameful?" -NonProphet

"It actually concerns me that, on my deathbed, saying "oh jesus" due to pain might be interpreted as a last minute conversion. Screw that. I must remember to use the F-word as my preferred expletive." - Postmodernhousewife

"It broke my heart into one piece when Bush left office." -AtheistKeith

"It depends on what you mean by caring for number one. If you treat your fellow humans as if their concerns and feelings were of no importance to you, your life will suck." -DougofCal

"It does seem odd that people accept God but quibble over degrees of nonsense. It's like buying an imaginary car you'll never see, but debating endlessly what color is best and whether or not you paid enough." - Tatarize

"It doesn't matter, in the philosophy, if ideas are racist or fascist. Ideas have to stand on their own merit and to fail on their merit, not be forbidden because 'we don't like them'. I may be against spreading those ideas 'on the streets', but not against examining them in classes and universities". -Grahor

"It has become apparent to me that people can believe that gods are real while knowing very nearly nothing. In fact, I have noticed that being in the state of knowing very nearly nothing seems to be fertile ground for belief in the existence of gods." -Citizen12

"It has been just as easy for bad actors to justify their actions by non-religious justifications as religious, and I cannot see that the wholesale adoption of atheism would change this." -Streiche

"It has occurred to me that religion and morality have as much to do with each other as vision and eye color." -JAlanBrown

"It is (unfortunately) a given that when we atheists tell Christians that we don't believe in their god we're being offensive, but when they tell us we're sinful and corrupt and bound for eternal damnation they're just doing it because they love us". -VeryIrreverentRichard (RDalin)

"It is a sad thing that the idea of changing your position in the light of new evidence is so universally considered to be a bad thing and a sign of weakness." -Fluffy

"It is just the way I look at it. Faith is an affliction. I don't know why people go on about how awesome it is. It is just a cancerous version of trust. Trust can be good, but faith is diseased trust." -AtheistKeith

"It is probably the most ironic statement ever to state that God and religion unite us. Yes, they do unite people--mostly when they want to kill other people." -Nazrani

"It is so amusing to me that your whole point is that science is based on evidence and that theism is based on a lack of evidence. Wherever there is a lack of evidence, it must be God! Perhaps instead of pointing out gaps in scientific knowledge, you could show us some evidence that God actually exists?" -BillZBub

"It is the analogy with Christianity. Sin is the cancer. Jesus is the cure. But who tells you Jesus is the cure? The same people who tell you that sin is the cancer!" - RH3

"It is true that, in many Latin American cultures, being handed a severed human arm is considered bad luck." -mrbehemoth

"It just occurred to me that the reason experts on god don't agree on anything is because - obviously - there's more than one god. In fact, there's probably (at least) one god for every expert. So much for monotheism." - VeryIrreverentRichard

"It must be interesting to live in your head and experience the world as a series of talking points utterly unconnected by logic." - Keepwe

"It occurs to me that someone very cynical with little or no shame could make it very big in television." -Flux

"It seems inarguable to me that the thousands of hours you apparently have devoted to making sense of your Bronze Age and medieval ancestors represents time that you have NOT spent learning about everything that every other civilized person on earth finds relevant and worthwhile." -Crosshatch

"It seems that God only wants to save people who are prepared to believe things which appear to be nonsense. Why would a super intelligent God be so prejudiced against intelligent people?" -RH3

"It seems that the group that most eschews reason is the group that hates the most. It seems that it is reason, rather than religion, which most encourages people to follow the Golden Rule." -Citizen12

"It seems your ability to get things wrong is surpassed only by your ability to get things very wrong." -RevDave

"It stops being amusing after a few years. Theists seem to be immune to logic. They try to use it for their own ends, but don't feel obligated to believe any valid conclusions drawn from such logic that they don't endorse." -Tatarize

"It surprises me how many otherwise intelligent people come here all fired up to tell us that Atheism is just another form of the unfounded belief that it rejects. I don't believe in "God" ....period. I don't make any claims about the existence or non-existence of things I can't prove. Simple, isn't it?" -Crosshatch

"It takes the collective will of women on this planet to influence the weather." -John7362 (crazy theist)

"It would almost be worth the trouble of getting divorced and going to Canada just to get married by a gay Elvis." -RH3

"It would be a bit like finding fossilized rabbits in the Precambrian. I'm sorry, no offense to J.B.S. Haldane, but I'd sooner believe in time traveling rabbits than the falseness of evolution." -Tatarize

"It's a joy to me as well. Talking about copulative verbs puts me in a state of conjugal bliss." -mrreindeer

"It's a little humbling to realize life on this planet is pretty much based on poop." -SnoopyLucy

"It's a pity that all those mental gymnastics you go through to arrive at your tortured 'conseptualizations' don't do anything to improve your mental fitness." -chip

"It's a pretty depressing thought; to only live on in memory through a quote displaying your sheer stupidity. Note to self: be more witty." -Mags

"It's a shame that you've dedicated so much time answering a post for which an adequate response may be found inside any random box of Cracker Jack." -Dingo

"It's a slippery slope. One day we're banning good old fashioned funeral heckling, but then that leads to..what? No more dragging bloody corpses through the street?" -Beelzehost

"It's amazing how much this sounds like people of faith trying to explain how their faith is backed up by evidence." -dlove5duke

"It's an opinion I cannot help but hold. The second I read it at university my very being rebelled with intellectual revulsion at it. If Anselm's proof is actually a proof, then everything I know is wrong." -Mrbehemoth

"It's curious that the author [of Genesis] seems to think the sun was just an additional light in an already light-filled day, and the natural conclusion is not that he was speaking figuratively but that he was full of shit." -Keepwe

"It's funny when they start quoting scarier and scarier bible verses about what god is going to do to us if we don't believe. It's like when somebody starts shouting at a person who doesn't speak English." -Twsh

"It's hard to stay deflated by reality for long if you have an internalized certainty that you're in a personal relationship with the biggest honcho of all, and HE'S madly in love with you. He'll be waiting with outstretched arms when you kick the breathing habit, and off you'll go to where it can't get any better because it's always as great as it gets....forever. It makes swallowing a bunch of bizarre ancient Science Fiction backstory seem like a pretty small price to pay." -crosshatch

"It's hilarious that a Christian can reel off a list of terrible deaths, and yet claim that the worst of them all was the guy who didn't actually die, and knew that he wouldn't all along." -mrbehemoth

"It's not 'name calling', it's a statement of fact. Anyone who says 'Atheists have a god, and it's Satan' is pure and complete uneducated idiot. I am sorry, but a fact is a fact. We can dance around it, we can name it fancy pc names like "mentally handicapped", we can blame society for this, but the fact remains: you are an idiot." -Grahor

"It's not nerve to resist social conventions invented by religious folks to protect religion. If you believe complete nonsense you'll be called on it in every realm - politics, society, art, literature, sports. But religion... oh, no. We've got magical respect for people who walk away from the wheel of a bus and pretend Jesus is driving." -Tatarize

"It's not that I don't want to see you atheists suffer. The fantasy about whacking you on the ass as you try to get out of that lake of fire really excites me." -John76

"It's pretty easy to rip through a tissue-paper argument with only religious arguments in favor of the proposition. If there are only religious arguments for something, there are no good arguments for it." -Tatarize

"It's proud of everything. Proud of being smug, proud of being obnoxious, proud of being ignorant, proud of being enslaved to an insane death-cult, proud of the spontaneous orgasms experienced with every daydream about atheists slitting their wrists because someone put a Christmas tree up outside Kmart." -mrbehemoth

"It's really amazing how often theists of a certain stripe post links to articles which contradict their claims. You'd think they would first get someone to read the article and explain it to them." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"It's so sadly unsurprising that you see truth in astrology. You wouldn't recognise logic or critical thinking if it leapt down your throat and chewed on your appendix." -Mo

"It's the pope, it's terry schaivo, its Jerry, neck and neck in a race to the death, and wait, its Johnny cochrane up the outside in a surprise win!!" -DeadWombat

"It's why I always question what should be the obvious absurdity of the so-called Judeo-Christian tradition. When you shave off the necessarily fake ecumenical veneer, it's not a wild mischaracterization to see one side thinking something like, "Poor, misguided bastards don't know a messiah when they see one" and the other side thinking, "Poor, misguided bastards don't know a false messiah when they see one." - Crosshatch

"Jesus is one of those fervently admired and (supposedly) imitated people who people are very happy not to have around. That way they can claim he supports them without being proved wrong. Dying was the best move he ever made, similar to the way prices for pictures go up when an artist dies." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"Jesus of Nazareth was only included as a historical figure when Christians started to write history." -Seeker

"Judaism and Christianity are no different in that a moral person will find in them the moral guidelines to which he already adheres, and an immoral person will find in them justifications for his immorality." -C12(Citizen12)

"Just because I'm not buying what you're selling doesn't mean I'm selling something else. Atheism isn't a religion". -Tatarize

"Just legalise terrorism. Leave behind the stupid moral ditty. Everyone's doin' it. It's the in thing. Add public funding, better arms, bigger special effects, and once the fight goes out of everyone, we'll all go home. If there is one." -Nazrani

"Just remember that, most times, when someone talks about "truth," they're talking about the point where they decided to stop learning". -rplourde

"Kind of ironic, eh? You claim the book that calls you a liar is 100% true." -chip

"Learning morality from books makes as much sense as learning how to swim from them..." -DarkAngel

"Let me break the news to you: the old boy has been a corpse for ages, refrigerated or not. He was a corpse when he turned a blind eye to the systemic child abuse in his churches and when he turned a blind eye to the civil rights of gays. The only thing more frozen in time than his body was his vision." -reshuffle

"Life has a meaningful purpose, and better yet, it's customizable. You get to make it yourself." -Tatarize

"Life is a process of giving up one thing after another. What a nuisance it is, but worth it. Strike a balance between what you like to do and what it's wise to do. Eat your veggies and keep moving." -Prismatic

"Life is too short to get mad at all the lies people believe." -benmcd

"Like most people, Christians prefer being comfortable and secure to being correct. Their religion gives them that illusion, so they have little or no interest in finding what the truth is, nor in admitting uncomfortable truths when they encounter them." -AtheistKeith

"Little white lies vs. harsh truths both are time and place dependent. Someone proud of their flat and off-key performance at a party, I tell them it was lovely. That same person later decides they're going to quit their job, blow a big chunk of their savings or otherwise jeopardize their finances on recording and promoting their own album, then it's time for the unvarnished truth that their singing, if it can be called that, rapes ears." -Flux55A

"Living a cloistered religious life is to me a warping of one's humanity. I would not go so far as to say that such a person can't have wisdom to impart to the rest of us, but my immediate reaction is suspicion." -RDalin

"Logic will prevent you from stepping off that roof. Faith will encourage you to try. Which is of more benefit is obvious to anyone who is not stupified by faith." -Chip

"Look, things happen. You bring in the girls and the dogs for a few snapshots of naked arabs masturbating and all of a sudden people are talking torture." -Prismatic

"Man, now I want a super karate monkey death car." -Ibn Tumart

"Maybe a good answer to the "no atheists in foxholes" argument is "yeah, it's hard to have war without religion." -MrReindeer

"Maybe he's afraid to descend into a pit of despair with all the rest of the atheists so his mind won't let him go there. He doesn't understand that it's really not that bad. That "empty" space is quickly filled with family and work and real life concerns and the realization that those are the things which filled that space all along." -Twsh

"Maybe he's one of Mary Baker Eddy's Christian Science majors. Where the term "science" means "not science"." -Eljay

"Maybe I should grab a hammer and smash away half my cerebral cortex. Then I might have a chance to find my way to the creationists' heaven." -Mo

"Me, a high priest? Well, maybe - if you left off the 'priest' part..." -chip

"Mind you, despite all attempts of my parents and society, I, myself, do not share the opinion, that showing up at a job is benefitial for me. In fact, I think such behaviour is beneath me, so, it's hard for me to be an advocate and propagandist of such a life style." -Grahor

"Mind you, everyone has very different understanding of "greater good". And I wouldn't agree on your definition of "greater good" if it does not include me somewhere out there in a space yacht with my harem." -Grahor

"Moral actions and principles are not delegated. Moral actions and principles are those that respect the rights and freedoms of others, and of society in general. All morality stems from that, and that alone." -lahatte

"More advanced = less biblical. Every step you take toward morality is a step you take away from the Bible." -Tatarize

"Most atheists do good, not because of some belief that a god will reward or punish us, but because by doing so, it strengthens our family, our community, our world - and that makes it a better place to live." -Readzalot1

"Most of those we grade as being incompetent at life aren't, which only enhances our desire for them to be incompetent at life." -Saint Bengal

"Most of what you say is genuinely quotable; it's just quotable in a men's-room-stall kind of way." -Reshuffle

"Most people shrink back from deep thinking. That's why they're referred to as 'the masses'." -Crosshatch

"Most single-celled organisms do not engage in sexual activity. They just split in half and ask themselves "Was it good for me as well?" - Seeker

"Much as you want to think 'I don't know' is some sort of victory for your side, it isn't; it's just what science says before it goes and finds out." -longstreet

"Murder is when you enter someone's house with a weapon in your hands and kill the owner. Killing is when you first declare war, then enter someone's house with weapon in your hands and kill the owner... Huge difference, you know." -Grahor

"My body tends to run faster than my mind. I arrive everywhere early, but end up just making grunting noises." -mrbehemoth

"My friends and I save ours (blasphemy) for Christmas Day, where in the evening we attempt to break all of the Seven Deadly Sins. We always eat 3/4 lb burgers at Casino el Camino for gluttony and the rest then just come naturally." -Leslie (lekkermeisje)

"My official opinion was to declare you retarded. You can attempt to rectify the mistakes that lead to this conclusion or just have this conclusion reiterated." -Tatarize

"My own maxim here is to stay careful about keeping my "hate list" or "don't-like list" always smaller than the list of "likes" and a lot smaller than my list of "care-nots". It's good for one's own mental health and makes better companions." -Georg (Empiricus)

"My point was that these claims are intoxicating. To believe something by sheer force of will in the face of contrary evidence can give one quite a kick. My point was that there is a real pleasure for many in seeking out and manufacturing evidence of God's will and actions." -BranchingStream

"My primate ancestors evolved and all I got was this stupid tool using ability and gigantic brain." -Longstreet

"My statement was: why present the message, if it is so critical, in such a manner that could overshadow it? Would you want your local weather person to tell you that a really bad storm is coming in plain and simple language or in the form of a haiku or sonnet?" -SavannahKing

"My uncle passed away in Mexico. We're all atheist and didn't care to pick up his body. The plan was to have him cremated there, but we didn't care enough about the ashes. So we didn't bother with pretty much anything." -Tatarize

"My will is specific. I should be kept alive indefinitely while draining my family of all they have. There should be fifteen visits to the state court and ten to the federal courts. The Sureme court should view my still palpitating corpse. The arrival of Jesse Jackson in a stretch limo to rend his garments would also be a nice touch. In short, I want a three-ring circus." -mymallandnew

"No one deserves mercy. If you deserve it, it's not mercy." -mrbehemoth

"No wonder you spew words the way you do: You are so full of yourself you've triggered your gag reflex." -elmeraho

"No, but I have these smart pills you can buy. No, they are not rabbit poos, they are smart pills. Yeah, they taste like rabbit poos, but they are smart pills. Ok, they are rabbit poos, but see, you ony had to eat five to get smart enugh to realise that." DeadWombat

"No, first you have to believe that sins actually exist, then you have to hate yourself for even being born and therefore sinful, which then opens your brain up for indoctronation into a bizzare set of rituals and instructions that look suspiciously like a copy of the social rules of a nomadic agrarian tribe." -Fluffy

"No, I just thought you didn't know you were an idiot, so I took it upon myself to inform you. If you already knew, however, I apologise for the presumption." -Flux

"No, no-one here will trust you because what you posted is not science. It's like some cargo-cult misunderstanding based on a 1930s' popular science magazine with half the pages missing." -RevDave

"No-one gets killed with Swiss Army Knives. By the time you have sorted out the blade from the magnifying glass, the bottle opener, the tweezers, and the thing for getting stones out of horses' hooves, your intended victim has run away." -RH3

"Nobody ever said making definitive judgments on the personal qualities of other human beings you don't really know was going to be easy." -mrbehemoth

"Not all "bad things" are born directly of the Books. But some indisputably are. Why ignore and rationalize and make excuses for them? Worst of all, why tolerate them in this day and age?" -JQHiggins

"Notice the 1st, 3rd, and last letters in "googled" spell God, but it only works in the past tense. Otherwise it's Goe. I'm pretty sure this is important, but I'm not sure why." -Tayana42

"Now I find it odd that you demand the impossible for that which you do not believe, yet for what you do believe you do so without a shred of evidence, reason or logic." -Eljay

"Now I have no direct knowledge of what the writer REALLY meant, but for 2000 years the church of God, the body of Christ, the congregation of the faithful, has interpreted these words to mean that if you don't kill heretics you become guilty of their sins. And they have done their killing secure in the knowledge that it was what God wanted." -gclason

"Now I sometimes think that after they burn me and hang my brother a black pall of ignorance and barbarism will fall over the world." - RH3

"Now if you ask me over a beer why I don't like catholicism in particular among other religions (none of which I like) I might say "Because catholicism can make an intelligent person act like an idiot." -Letxbex

"Now you might question why a self-admittedly not-so-intelligent person dares to call others stupid. Well, I do not need to be a hen to know when an egg is foul." -Empiricus

"Now, I understand that you cannot understand why anyone would be so altruistic without the threat of a god and eternal damnation hanging over them, but don't project your ethical deficiencies onto others." -Mo

"Obama gets the (Nobel) prize for fishing diplomacy out of the trash can and using it again. For that to be possible, someone had to put it in there in the first place. It's a bit like the implied message of opposition to disease which results from awarding a Nobel prize for medicine." -MarkBoyd

"Obviously all the plumbing (in heaven) empties into hell. It just wouldn't be fundie paradise without being able to sh!t on someone." -Rev.PJ

"Occasionally an elected official will do something she/he campaigned on, but not usually. The Tea Baggers are quite frightening because they actually want to accomplish the stupidity that they had to say in order to get elected." -AtheistKeith

"Oddly, that's a common claim but wrong. Anybody who says that typically means to say that they aren't Jesusy enough. The truth is far easier than that. They cite the NT quite often and Jesus isn't as Jesusy as people say he is." -Tatarize

"Of course. I rarely listen to anything else. Metallica, Anthrax, and Bach... the trinity, as far as I'm concerned." -mrbehemoth

"Oh my Cod, I can speak Greek! AEIOU AEIOU AEIOU!" -Deadwombat

"Oh, come on! Try to put a bit more enthusiasm into your indifference." -RH3

"Oh, come on. A bit of chanting "Namu Admida Butsu" won't do you any harm. Just stay away from the "nam myoho renge kyo" stuff." -RH3

"Oh, come on. What's wrong with poking fun at the Vatican and some good old-fashioned masturbation?" -Seeker

"Oh, I have a comic about looking up web comics, but under the circumstances, it'd be a tad recursive." -Flux

"Oh, I know there are plans to create God. I went to the townhall and saw the proposal drawings on display there. It was very nice. Too bad that the naming committee used all the budget." -SavannaKing

"Oh, no. Don't be looking to the real world for evidence of spiritual advancement. You have to look within. Everything you need to know about anything is right there. It's the only way to know nothing and yet claim ultimate intellectual superiority. Books are for standing on when you can't reach the top shelf." -Twsh

"Oh, so you don't care if innocent defenseless children are exposed to sex right smack bang in the middle of their exposure to violent crime and hard drug use? You monster." -mrbehemoth

"Oh, stop being so tolerant and reasonable. You've been a member of this forum long enough to know what is expected of Christians here." -RH3

"Oh, surely not! Islam is THE religion of peace, love, teddy bears, and tranquility. We can't judge the whole religion based on millions of bad apples." -AtheistKeith

"Oh, that's right, God is anything not fully defined. So God is undefinable... how do you know... because we defined it as anything we can't define. What if you finally define that? Well, then it wasn't God afterall." - Tatarize

"Oh, you've done a great job of spreading your message. What you have utterly failed to do is present one good reason why anyone should think the message originated with God." - DougofCal

"OK, let me explain something... just because you are an atheist doesn't mean you make rational arguments." - MaxHarper

"Old lags like me see a fair bit of consistency in U.S. foreign affairs. The U.S. consistently supports any regime, no matter how brutal and repressive, so long as that regime seems to promote U.S. interests and/or supports Israel." -RH3

"On the plus side, I now know that a Pangalactic Gargleblaster is called a Pangalaktische Donnergurgler in German. I shudder to think what it is called in Hungarian." -RH3

"Once someone comes bearing the argument from incredulity, they've pretty much hit intellectual bottom." -Flux55A

"Once you accept that bible can contain errors, nothing stops god from being one of those errors." -Grahor

"Once you accept that homo sapiens is just one of millions of species on this planet that have co-evolved for millenia, these "mysteries" vanish. All that is left to determine are the mechanisms of their inter-relationships. And no, learning about such things does not make a rose smell less sweet." -Mo

"Once you accept that the bible can contain errors, nothing stops god from being one of those errors." -Grahor

"One can talk to atheists. Fundamentalists, regardless of stripe, are unreachable. They have god on their side, after all." - Marie(MarieSiduri)

"One might almost say that the dawning of a common, albeit not necessarily universal belief in a bunch of mumbo-jumbo is how civilizations are born." -AtheistKeith

"One of the consistent features of the relations between different denominations and indeed different religions is that they nearly all implicitly sign up to the idea that any religion is better than none at all." -Fox

"One of the worst things that I will say about people who are so mean, jerky, or otherwise really awful that I can't think of any other way to express my feelings about them is that I've added them to the list of people who make me wish I was still Christian so I could tell them to go to Hell and actually mean it." -Bascilla

"One school district was told to teach creation science, so they went to add it to their curriculum. They failed to find a single fact about creation science. Apparently half the time is to be spent teaching biology and the other half with their hands over their ears shouting "lalalalalalalalalalalalalalala"." -Tatarize

"Only those who demand Freedom and Liberty are We the People; those who demand universal healthcare are The Enemies of The People. If, say, purely for example, that 97% want universal healthcare and 3% want the Free Market - that means that 3% are The People and 97% are the Enemies of The People. That's how ideology works." - Grahor

"Open your video with some abstracted vaginal image, wrap youself in a rug from Pier One and you too can start your own religion!" -arjaypet

"Over the years many possible purposes for our existence have occurred to me. Trouble has been, I can never think of any good reason to believe that our existence has any purpose." -DougofCal

"Overall, I think "the authorities" would find me to be a nerd. Any agents of the government would probably just give me a wedgie and leave." -Flux

"P.R.A.Y.E.R. - Preaching Rambling Absurdity Yielding Enraged Retorts". -Eljay

"Painting pictures of zebras with Hawaiian shirts might lead to a cure for herpes, if those stupid scientists would just give it a chance. But nooooooo, they give up after 300 paintings." -Rev. Martini

"People are gay. That alone is enough to make it "natural". I see little value in describing anything as more or less natural. Something may be more or less likely to occur in a given situation but that doesn't make it more or less natural." -rydhi

"People have wrapped themselves in consumer goods and infotainment and superficialities. The real world has started to intrude, and many people have no idea how to deal with it." -Mo

"People need to know that there are upstanding honest atheists with good table manners. If they are uncomfortable with atheists, it gives them a chance to become acquainted with one. However, if you have dirty fingernails and a nasty personality, tell them you are a Jehovah's Witness." - Prismatic

"People SHOULD ALWAYS be willing to be talked out of their beliefs; and if provided with objectively verifiable evidence that those beliefs are erroneous, they SHOULD be willing to abandon those beliefs." -chip

"People who expound on theology, 'god's mysteries' and whatnot, are akin to Trekkies speaking at length about how a warp engine is assembled; one can go in to a great amount of detail about the subject, but at the end of the day, it's still all made-up bullshit about something that doesn't exist." -Flux(55A)

"Polish logicians did a lot of really great work, but they get little credit for it because no one can spell their names." -RH3

"Poor old God, how the mighty are fallen. Many years ago it seemed as though people were claiming God's existence could be proven using circumstantial evidence; "Look at the flowers, aren't they pretty, therefore God exists". Now it seems that more and more it becomes "well, you can't explain quantum theory using Einstein, and Darwin didn't get everything right, therefore God exists". -Tony

"Porn always tells it just like it is. And if your girlfriend comes home and catches you having sex with her sister, her immediate reaction will be to strip off her clothes and join in." -Rillion

"Pride and Prejudice and Zombies angered me because the illustrations had extremely, extremely wrong period clothing." -Mags

"Pride in one's genetic roots is all in one's head, though I can't see why anyone would be proud of being Irish. I mean, I am about half Irish, and look at me." -C12

"Raise the intellectual level of the White House. Elect Miss Teen South Carolina." -RH3

"Real non-conformity is between the ears, not in one's clothes closet". -Flux55A

"Realizing God exists can alleviate that empty feeling that makes someone so addicted to chronic masturbation." - Bodhitharta

"Reason cannot be cultured by withdrawing from the ideas of others. It must triumph." -Citizen12

"Reform and other liberal branches of Judaism know that there are female rabbis. Orthodox people know that there are not." -Reyzl(rgstern)

"Regardless of which words you enter in Google Image Search, some porn will result." -Saint Bengal

"Religion is a belief "system" like tossing a coin is a betting "system". -freeksngeeks

"Religion is an excuse for extremism and willful ignorance, not a basis for morals." -Kato84

"Religion is like King Midas but with poo where the gold should be." -Tatarize

"Religion, like drug addiction, is an unnecessary and harmful add-on. It isn't a matter of filling up some hole. It is like feeding a cancerous tumor." -C12

"Religious language is without factual meaning, but it has the same kind of meaning in human affairs that works of art and the imagination possess." -Prismatic

"Religious skepticism is not a moral failing. You could argue, if you must, that it is an intellectual failing, and I have no problem with that. I have a serious problem, though, with people who think that only reprobates can disagree with them." -DougofCal

"Relying on the stupid people is basically playing to chance, which is obviously better odds than relying on the intelligent people when your case is crap. It is, however, a bad play if your case is solid. Simple game theory." -Darkangel

"Repeat after me, "I will not eat mushrooms that I find in the woods." - Rev. Conor

"S/he/it seems very committed to the biblical universe. I enjoy the insights into primitive peoples as much as anyone. If only we didn't have to worry about their electoral control of nukes." -Nazrani

"Saying you're not planning on firing the first nuke is just reminding the other side that you can." -Mo

"Science has nothing to do with needing a belief. We don't pray to Newton that things keep falling (or to keep them from falling). There is no Altar of Mendeleev, no Mysteries of Einstein, no Gospels according to Darwin, no Temple to Pythagoras, etc." -Seeker

"Scientists are always coming up with their human explanations for the mysteries of God. The three phases of matter exist because there are three phases of God. God, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. God is the solid ice. His commandments are inflexible. Jesus is the water, because his teaching had to flow out among mankind. The Holy Ghost is steam, because ghosts look like steam." -Citizen12

"Scientists at least take the trouble to come up with a new name for every new mystery they discover. They don't keep recycling the same three-letter abbreviation for 'I don't know'." -DougofCal

"Scientists tend to gather around in fellowship, hold hands, and chant 'I believe in gravity'. One scientist, alas, had a moment of doubt and floated away. It was very sad." -Eljay

"Scratch a Fundie lightly and you'll find a nihilist." -Ozy666

"Secular morality leads. The church eventually relents its immoral positions. I can see how that looks like it's rejecting the bad, but it's not. The church rejects the laughable. And secular progress makes those positions laughable. They adopt the mainstream position when it becomes too absurd to not. So eventually they come around, but not because they were ever right about the subject." -Tatarize

"See, everyone? Physics doesn't ruin someone's ability to be hip and funny." -Tanner

"Self discovery, understanding who you (we) are, makes a lot more sense to me than trying to discover and understand an entity who seems rather bent on not revealing himself in any observable form." -Tayana42

"Sexism is weird. I think about it like I think about anti-Semites. Just outdated weird bigotry. Don't they have more modern people to hate?" -Mags

"Should theists or atheists care if yet another symbol is defiled in protest, even if that symbol has no meaning to us? If the Koran or the Bible is just a bunch of words on pages, then does it not follow that the flag is just a colored cloth - both of which are probably made in Taiwan? Are any symbols sacred?" -mymallandnew

"Since atheism has no doctrinal basis and requires no adherence from adherents, you are entirely free to invent or discover your own principles that make your life happier. That is the wonderful thing about being freed from dogmaÂ—you really are free." -Prismatic

"Since baptism involves water, I think debaptism needs to involve fire." -Mags

"Since the sarcasm part of my brain seems to be overdeveloped, I'm going to blame my poor social skills on the environment in general." -RH3

"Skepticism is of far more value than atheism." -C12(Citizen12)

"Slavery has gone out of style in the West now and preachers have changed their tune accordingly. The Bible hasn't changed. It still authorizes slavery." -SusannahHB

"Slavery was very much supported by the Bible. The pious arguments of the south were Biblical arguments. If one were to take all their morality from the Bible, abolitionism might as well have been satanism." - Tatarize

"Slowly, slowly, the world began to come around to accepting science. One by one, religious pronouncements fell to advancing knowledge. Now religionists are saying, "Can't we all just get along?" That's the equivalent of crying "uncle." Religionists are basically suing for peace. It means that science is finally doing well enough that it competes with nonsense." -FrankDK

"slowly, the churches have lost their hold on agriculture, on medicine, on taxes, on marriage, on everything. All it has left is the afterlife, and one day the last priest will prattle to the last worshipper, and it will be gone." -deadwombat

"Smoking that Obama weed will really fvck you up! This isn't nearly as funny as I thought it would be, but that won't stop me from posting it." -BenMcd

"Smooth jazz is neither smooth nor jazz. Discuss." -Qwerty Uiop

"So a true home consists of the woman who's womb was her childrens home from the beginning and the man who placed them in her home". - Bodhitharta

"So God isn't omnipotent after all. He seems to be quite a bungler. If a government contractor made a world and it came out the opposite of the way it was intended, the contractor would be fired. Time to fire your god and get a new one." -FrankDK

"So long as atheism is made to seem like an irrational bizarre position fit only for communists and idiots who think we're monkeys then Christian children are safe from the war of ideas." -Tatarize

"So to 'obey god', all I need to do is not violate the laws of nature. Which, really, is quite easy - since I've found it to be impossible to violate the laws of nature. Gravity keeps doing the gravity thing, electromagnetism keeps doing the electromagnetism thing, weak force keeps doing the weak force thing, strong force keeps doing the strong force thing, quantum mechanics keeps doing the whatever-the-heck-quantum-mechanics-is thing." - Eljay

"So to you, a sign of love isn't, for instance, saying to the person you love, "I forgive your bad deeds, because I love you. It's OKay. A sign of love would be saying, "I love you, but because you did something wrong I have to kill you. But because I love you SO much, I'll kill someone else instead." - mrbehemoth

"So, no, we don't "stone them out of love" We love them so they won't be stoned." - Bodhidartha

"So, what drives this atheist? All sorts of stuff. Love for my wife. An insatiable thirst for knowledge. A desire to live not extravagantly but comfortably. And perhaps to make the world a better place through contributing to the spread of reason, science and logic. These are MY purposes in life." -Dreamer-71

"So, what you're saying is, the real reason we have swear words and consider some words obscene is so that those of us who don't have Tourette's can have a greater appreciation for those who do? Works for me; afterall, who wants to be in some high society polite company situation and have to observe some twitchy bastard continually barking out the word "chair"? -Nota

"Some days I think I'd like to be religious, if only because there are things I'd like to be able to thank a god for. The Microsoft Word/About forum bug, for example." - RevDave

"Some doctrines do place women in arrears and there are some Islam beliefs that belive women should have a clitioral-dychtomy." - Ginger09 (Christian)

"Some people call me Jesus, but only on my coke-donkey trips to Mexico." -mrbehemoth

"Somehow we turned a page somewhere in the last century where people think a hundred year old + vampire going out with a girl in high school is totally non creepy." -DarkAngel

"Someone give me an idea for a memorable quote, so I can take it." -Tanner

"Sometimes talking with you reminds me of trying to nail jello to a wall. First, when you think you have it pinned down it jiggles away, then you wonder why the hell you're even trying to do this." - Tatarize

"Sorry, but I don't know how to post a hollow laugh." -RH3

"Sorry, but that is how atheists live their lives...eating, pooping and try as you may they cannot understand spiritual things, it just sounds like a noisy bell to them." -Bodhitharta

"Sorry, I don't go in for this touchy-feely crap. You want to judge my beliefs, go ahead. I have nothing to be ashamed of as far as my beliefs go. Everyone is entitled to have their beliefs, but that does not mean they are entitled to be free from criticism of their beliefs." -Tony

"Sorry, I've hit a political bottom of cynicism. Everything looks hopeless from where I sit. I don't even care that much anymore. I should be worried about the fact that I don't care, but I don't care about that either." -Tayana42

"Speaking of abstinence, maybe we could ask all the Catholics to abstain from having any more kids. Just what the world needs: more papist- pap-regurgitating godnuts who think birth control is a sin in a world where 6 billion clueless breeding bipeds are chewing up the planet and spitting it out in each other's faces. I used to blame the priests, but, Hell, lots of them started as altar boys and they just sort of got sucked into it. I kid because I love." -Crosshatch

"Spirituality" is one of those concepts that gets bandied about so often by people who want to avoid having their off the wall ideas associated with the off the wall ideas of organized religion, and is used to mean so many different things that it has become virtually meaningless in itself." -Tony

"Spontaneity is absolutely impossible without meticulous preparation." -mrbehemoth

"Stupid camping mistakes are evolution's way of weeding out the stupid campers." -Flux

"Such is the human condition. Having enlightened ourselves as much as possible, we can do no more. But what we can do, if nothing else, is admit the conflict between what we know and what we feel." - DougofCal

"Sufficiently advanced ineffability is indistinguishable from non-existence." -Yoghurt (Vaxholm)

"Teaching creationism as science would also be fun. Showing children how to apply scientific principles to problem solving is best done with familiar yet easily disposed of theories." -JK234

"Tell you what. You want us to believe in your god. Pray that starting today at midnight, no more people would die in the wars in the middle east. What could be simpler? Then, when that happens, we'll know that your god exists, and that you are a believer. If it doesn't happen, either your god is a phony, or you are." -FrankDK

"Thank you for informing us that you do not let your admitted ignorance get in the way of forming your opinions. This admission allows those reading your posts to accord them all the value they deserve." -chip

"Thankfully, wit is not a zero-sum game." -Meow

"That goddamn islamofascist liberal secular Marxist Kenyan geography. I hate that stuff." -GrandPoohbahofIrreverence (RDalin)

"That you even think you make an argument leads me to believe you're one of those cranky, jealous philosophers who wished you'd made room for at least a couple science classes in between your mind-expanding adventures involving sugar cubes and brownies." -jqhiggins

"That's a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Except in this case, the kettle is stainless steel, and the pot is a lonely black moron." -Psykomakia

"That's a terribly big word. If you have progressed far enough to use such big words, perhaps now you can go back and see if you're capable of reading that which exceeded your abilities earlier." -mrbehemoth

"That's all good and well, but I still say gay fruit flies should not be allowed to adopt maggots or lead Scout troops." -Mrreindeer

"That's my view on real life matters too. Don't ban books or ideas, ridicule them in the extreme. Do not allow them the way of darkness and subterfuge." - Simanos

"That's time travel for you. It's weird. It is weird, it was weird and it always will be weird, though not necessarily in that order." -RevDave

"That's what I say. Based on average life expectancy and what I have read about the effects of global warming, I should die just about the time the water reaches my ankles." -Tony

"That's what so many of these apologists don't get. They go on and on trying to "prove" Josephus wrote the TF, or that Nazareth actually existed in the first century, or that Hitler wasn't a Christian or... As if, if we just got those details "right", we would have to be Christians. Interesting to cross swords over, sure. Totally irrelevant to the existence or non-existence of God." -SusannahHB

"That's why I post - not to change your mind but to refine my mind." -mymallandnew

"The (putative) existence of a vague desire for some sort of relationship does not imply the existence of a being with whom to have that relationship, let alone one greater than ourselves." -RH3

"The ability to inspire, whatever the Hell that means, is apparently a desireable trait, even if people don't have a clue why it is they are inspired, or what they are inspired about." -Tayana42

"The acid or lithmus-test of an ethical system consists - for me, at least - in our willingness to live by its rules, find them sensible for my life and open to public discourse and political debate, not in our ability to accept what has been handed down by our forefathers and our ability to train our children in it before they can even develop their own independent judgment. Some ethical systems survive by procreation. I do not like them." -Empiricus

"The answer to your question, quite simply, is: we'll evolve to wherever we evolve, and we'll keep doing it. That's the only meaningful answer you'll ever get". - VeryIrreverentRichard (RDalin)

"The assumption here appears to be that the many people in question opposed the Holocaust. What is the basis for the assumption? Without that assumption I think that something more opposite is likely true: The Holocaust happened because many strong-willed people overcame their natural sympathies for their fellows, sacrificed their civility, and did horrible things because they thought it was right." -BeelzehostAA

"The attempt to redefine "God" or whatever, as "everything" or as Tillich has it, "the ground of all being" is the last refuge of the theologian who recognises the embarrassment of belief in a god defined in such crude and unbelievable terms as those used in the Bible or Koran but wants to continue to have his "subject" taken seriously." -Fox

"The attitudes behind it are the real problem I think. If people didn't consider it distracting, slutty and immoral to wear short skirts or show your ankles, if society didn't assume that it's a struggle for men to contain themselves...then who would decide to wear a burka?" -Mags

"The Baha'i faith is like different grade levels of a school, you progress through them all just to find out in the end that the school is not accredited." -Tatarize

"The best thing about plants is, when they die, they're already half-buried." -MrReindeer

"The best way to get rid of rabbits is to confuse them, and the best way to confuse them is to plant clumps of updock around the place." - RH3

"The bible cites cases of those who've seen God. The bible makes it clear that they did not see "spatio-temporal representations of God" - they saw God, Himself. The Male God, Jehovah - who cannot be seen. The omnipotent one who was helpless against iron chariots. The omniscient one who didn't know where Adam and Eve were hiding. The Very Embodiment of Truth, who lied to Adam and Eve. The Merciful God who turned an old lady into a pillar of salt for the high crime of taking one last look at the only home she'd ever known and was being forced to flee to escape His Holy Wrath. The Bringer of Peace, who demands that his followers bathe in Blood."-chip

"The Bible does mention unicorns and giants. But, no. No dinosaurs..." -Tatarize

"The Bible is a great source of comfort for those who have not read it." -Eljay

"The Bible says that the universe was created out of a cosmic ocean and that a hard dome structure protects us and that the gods spent the entire second day building it and a large amount of the fourth day adding bling to the firmament. Christians are allowed to read that out of the Bible and say it doesn't say that, because it seems silly enough that we don't accept it. But when it says in no uncertain terms that you may possess another human being as property there's not enough wiggle room to get out of that." -Tatarize

"The bible, just like all other religious writings, is nothing more than the result of human wishing, fantasy and occasional mushroom-induced hallucinations." -Seeker

"The body of Christ tastes a little better with the strawberry jam of Christ on it." -Eljay

"The Catholic traditions really helped me overcome it all, in the end. Because they are so uniform, and I am so bullheaded, it finally got to me that I was just following along like a sheep. Those same beliefs made me a raging bigot for a number of years, which I gradually overcame by realizing I was a douche." -djfoxwvqs

"The culture-dependency of near-death experiences told speak for themselves - appearances of angels or Mother Mary for the Xians, mythical beasts for the Hindu, boddhisatvas for the (Mahayana) Buddhists, and relief and darkness for the atheist." -Empiricus

"The danger is in embracing irrational beliefs by building an edifice of superstition on a foundation of ignorance." -Eljay

"The day someone becomes a Christian without ever having met a Christian, seen a church, or heard of the Bible, I might start thinking there's something to it. Same applies to all other religions, of course." -mrbehemoth

"The difference between science and religion: science re-interprets dogma in light of new data, religion re-interprets new data in light of dogma." -Zontor

"The easiest way to find a purpose in life is to buy one of the ready-made one-size-fits-all guaranteed-for-life purposes for sale by religious sects or political groups. Many people find these very satisfactory and have no need of anything else. More discriminating people look for tailor-made purposes cut to their life situation and their talents. These are generally of higher quality and more stylish. Best of all perhaps are those one-of-a-kind home-made self-designed purposes. They are the most individualistic, but they take a lot of time and effort." -Prismatic

"The fact that Christ was the blood sacrifice just goes to prove the point that it's about blood sacrifice. Saying that Jesus was the blood sacrifice to end all blood sacrifices is really just showing that at the core of Christianity is blood sacrifice." -Tatarize

"The fact that some people accept the myth of two childish, innocent dimwits in a fancy garden of everlasting happiness and pointlessness, written by some ancient goat-herders, as the most likely origin of humanity, instead of accepting one of the most elegant and best supported explanations science has to offer, perfectly demonstrates that evolution is more "concerned" with "creating" species that are able to survive, rather than those that are most intelligent and rational." -Skaryon

"The fact that such uncertainty is not merely possible but intellectually justified suggests that Christianity is not the sort of thing we would expect from God." -RH3

"The fact that you cannot discern the sense of what I am saying is not necessarily an indication as to whether I am making any or not." -mrbehemoth

"The fear of punishment is what keeps the religion strong and influential over the simple minded people. Religion is a tool to control people and bend them, through fear, to the will of those in power." -lahatte

"The fittest do not necessarily survive and the weakest do not necessarily perish. But that is the way I bet." -GonzoHost

"The human experience transcends all culture. Culture is what your particular tribe does to deal with that experience. All humans are born, experience adolescence, mate, rear ungrateful children, experience illness and eventual death. Every culture has rituals and celebrations surrounding those experiences." -meow

"The I.D. group makes itself a laughing stock. Trouble is, not enough people get the joke." -Marie Siduri

"The idea that our species of primate - that's only been in existence for a couple of hundred thousand of the thirteen billion years or so since the formation of the universe - is so pivotal to the alleged creator of the cosmos that he's created billions of galaxies with billions of stars in each merely as wallpaper for our enjoyment is one of the least humble suppositions I've ever encountered." -Mo

"The idea that the J/C/I god made people so he could have love is like a teen girl having a baby for the same reason." -apmom1266

"The juvenile sea squirt wanders through the sea searching for a suitable rock or hunk of coral to cling to and make its home for life. For this task it has a rudimentary nervous system. When it finds its spot and takes root, it doesn't need its brain any more so it eats it. It's rather like getting tenure." -RH3

"The lady who crashed into the tail-end of my car recently when I was standing in line before a red light did so because, as she said, she was watching the car waiting on her right side, saw it start and move forward. She followed suit without thinking about that lane being a turn-off lane where another smaller red light had switched to green while ours on our lane stayed red. The value of such physical lessons is sometimes overlooked by those dealing with the traffic of arguments. Not all lanes of argumentative debates are lanes of solid logical thinking. some take you sideways." -Georg (Empiricus)

"The lyrics of Gilligan's Island aren't worthless. They teach us to avoid three hour tours, three hour tours." -Tatarize

"The Meaning of Life is to evolve to the point where the organism develops the cognitive capacity to ask the question "What is the Meaning of Life"? For non-sapient organisms, the Meaning of Life is to live a meaningless life." -Eljay

"The metaphor that I came up with for this is that religion (or at least the theology part) is like doodling sea-monsters in the blank spots on ancient maps. It's harmless fun as long as no one actually takes it seriously." -Keepwe

"The more words you use to argue a simple concept, the more chances you have to hide an important fallacy in verbiage, and convince yourself and others that it is logical." -Tayana42

"The most insidious form of discrimination which undermines the very core of modern thinking is to make politically incorrect jokes about those who are trying to be politically correct." -Tayana

"The only "white lies" allowed in a family are what people are giving each other for Christmas, and telling Auntie Em she looks much better today. Not that your father is Satan's interpreter, and you will go to hell for listening to him." -Meow

"The only angel I believe in is angel food cake, and the only miracle I believe in is miracle whip. Not because I like those items, but because I know they exist." -Curtt

"The only place creationism (or creationist ideas) has in the classroom is as an example of how far people will go to defend a cherished idea in the face of the facts." - Fluffy666

"The only reason why you can't prove God's non-existence to a believer is because, by assuming the existence of the supernatural, he has rejected the only existing tool of provability - reason." -FirstCowboy

"The only time I wouldn't want to die is after saying "God if you exist, strike me dead!" Which I have done from time to time in religious arguments. I can easily come to terms with death, But whoever I would be arguing with at the time would take that as proof of God. That I wouldn't like And, being dead, I wouldn't be able to argue that my death was just very coincidental." -Tatarize

"The Papacy is like the British Secret Service. If you manage to get rid of 007, 008 will just take his place and continue the mission". -Gonzo

"The prime function of this forum is to give pedantic smart-asses like us a place to criticize the lower orders." -RH3

"The problem is, I read Mark 16:18, and there the Holy Scripture has it that a believer can handle poisonous snakes, drink poisonous fluids, and heal the sick. Try as I might, I don't think I can pull this stuff off. So I picture a real faithful believer like yourself, while in your car driving to the nearest hospital to cure all those patients, has a cobra crawling up one arm and quaffing down a pint of Drano with the other, showing that the Holy Scriptures are indeed accurate." -JQHiggins

"The problem with moderate Christians (or moderate Muslims for that matter) is they seem to cut the fundamentalists of their own faith some slack, probably out of some feeling of brotherhood. ItÂ’s dangerous, in my opinion, because it quietly gives credibility to some fanatical beliefs which run contrary to the good of society." -Tayana42

"The problem with things having rational explanations is you have to be rational to find them. Without this prerequisite we get aliens, demons, gods and ghosts." -Tatarize

"The reason why we can apply logic to politics or sports and come up with valid understandings but fail with theology is not because the Emperor's gown is so exquisite that it defies our reasoning and perception, but because it isn't there." -Tatarize

"The reason why you're not seeing any of those is that it's an unstable state, like some rare particles you can only see in particle accelerators. You can have a theist of semi-coherent thinking in a vaccuum, but as soon as it is exposed to the Internet (thus, information), it collapses either into incoherent thinking or into an atheist." -DarkAngel

"The religious are humanity's ball-and-chain." -Citizen12

"The same nature that produces a beautiful butterfly also produces an ugly engorged deer tick. If beauty is evidence of a higher power, then ugliness surely must be counter evidence." -Ozy666

"The sexes have two different purposes but they are equal in effect. Women are treasured more than men and that's why men are overseers of women." - Bodhitharta

"The simplified theology of Protestant fundamentalism is just like American fast-food: pre-digested, not a lot to chew, lacking in nutrition, leaving you hungry for more, and of course, it's very, very bad for you." -Mo

"The theist's life is that of cattle, all grazing along waiting for slaughter and deluding themselves that the Farmer keeps them around because he loves them (in anything else than BBQ sauce)." -DarkAngel

"The theists (figuratively) shoot themselves in the head, never mind the foot, all the time. The trouble is, they don't feel any pain and compliment each other on the improved ventilation." - Powers

"The type of dancing I do (and places I hang in), if nobody gets a fist in the face by accident during the whole night then that means the band was boring." -DarkAngel

"The Vatican is just practicing the first rule of amateur tap dancing: wave your hands a lot and they won't notice you're not doing much with your feet." -Prismatic

"The very way we are communicating, not to mention every tool ever made starting from when the first antelope thigh bone was repurposed as a cudgel, is both argument and evidence in favor of materialism." -Flux(55A)

"The virtue of honesty is highly overrated in any discourse with a delusional person." -JQ HIGGINS

"The whole bible is stories, just ink on a page. If you choose to base your life on it and your arcane analysis of "holy" scripture, then I'll take the yellow pages. My local butcher actually has relevance to my life unlike the mythical figures of your fairy stories." -freeksngeeks

"There are many definitions to the word 'truth'. The truth I mean is what conforms to reality. And one of my core beliefs is that I should in every way I can, make sure my beliefs are as close to conforming to reality, to being true, as I can." -MaxHarper

"There are plenty of nutjobs, and they're not all Christians; similarly there are plenty of Christians, and they're not all nutjobs. What cannot be denied, though, is there is a sizeable overlap between the two groups." -RevDave

"There are too many dubious characters arriving in Australia these days. Anyway, seeing them swinging from the lamposts will encourage the rest of the populace to take education seriously." -RH3

"There is a difference between skepticism based on knowledge, and skepticism based on ignorance." -Ozy666

"There is a lot of really good music in opera, but you can hardly hear it because of all the fat people screaming." - RH3

"There is a move to teach both creationism and evolution and to let the student decide. But no one wants to teach high schoolers tantric sex techniques and abstinence at the same time to let them decide." -MSiduri

"There is no evidence for intelligent design. None. The nearest any IDer has come to providing any is pointing to something and saying it "looks" designed, whatever that means. That's about as scientific as looking at clouds and saying, "Ooh, look! A horsie! And there's a bunny and a choo-choo train!" -Rev Dave

"There is no point to the universe. It just is. Same with life and death. They don't need capital letters for me, they just are. And, since I have life, I am going to enjoy it as much as I can without hurting others." -Mags

"There is nothing good in blind belief. At least liberal christians are trying to create a more or less decent god, one you can show your neighbours without too much embarassment." -Grahor

"There is nothing wrong with not knowing. There is nothing wrong with doubt. Belief on faith alone is not the virtue Christians say it is. It is intellectually honest to remain neutral in the face of unanswerable questions. Believing in the absurd on faith is irresponsible." -Tayana42

"There is still a lot we don't know, but with a long history of man finding the answers to things that once were attributed to a god, it would be a safe bet that today's questions will one day be answered with rational explanations instead of theological ones." -apostateofthelord

"There may be some ultimate truths out there, but neither the theist nor the scientist can know what they are, although sometimes in our need to explain things we confuse what we believe with what we know, and at some higher level of obfuscation we confuse either what we believe or what we know with truth. Given our limitations, I even wonder if truth is relevant." -easyD2

"There was a time when I never thought I would write that a country was better off when it was run by a brutal, repressive, murderous, war-mongering, CIA-sponsored, paranoid, thug." -RH3

"There was Dawson's Creek several years ago. Jen was an atheist. Nothing ever went right for her and she ended up dying of cancer." -Tatarize

"There was nothing wrong with those sentences. Your brain is structurally poor." -BenMcD

"There you go again, putting the words "fundy" and "read" in the same sentence." -RH3

"There's a difference between an "argumentum ad hominem" and a simple insult. The former is a logical fallacy, the latter is often merely satisfying." -Ozy666

"There's a difference between having a "right" and doing the right thing. People have the right to be bigoted and discriminatory in many situations...that doesn't mean others shouldn't condemn them for it." -Ozy666

"There's nothing wrong with saying "I don't know," but that's not what they're doing-- they're saying you can't know, because the answer lies in some privileged supernatural order. Bullhocky. Miracles are coincidences that you make personal." Rillion

"These 'values' that are 'promoted' transcend christianity or any dogmatic literature. Sometimes the right thing to do is just the right thing to do. No dogma necessary." -lahatte

"These things are simply not immoral, your disbelief is immoral. And Yes, Slapping your own parent warrants death." -Bodhitharta

"They are right, I admit it. I really believe in god, but he just pisses me off so much, I've put him on Ignore til he starts behaving himself. Sort of a cosmic Time-Out." -Meow

"They've (the KKK) had a marketing makeover. They're called The Tea Party now." -Eljay

"This forum is an ongoing work of art, reason, wisdom and civility, after all. To destroy its content would be akin to burning the Library of Alexandria!" -Mo

"This has been another installment of Logical Fallacy Theatre, brought to you by the Slippery Slope, the Argumentum ad Absurdum, and a grant from the Non Sequitur Foundation. Thank you, and good night. " - Flux

"This is not the first time I have almost died by taking an antacid incorrectly." -Deadwombat

"This is one of the immoral doctrines Christianity has promoted. The notion that everyone is guilty of a sin in which they had no choice or intention is an evil notion and shows the corrupt nature of Christian faith." -Prismatic

"This is the defense mechanism of your religious meme at work. Without it, you'd understand that the reason we don't see God is because ALL the objectively verifiable evidence suggests that no God exists. But since your religious meme 'wants' to protect and reproduce itself, you are forced by it to conclude that all the objectively verifiable evidence is wrong and that, instead, your subjective beliefs not only trump reality, but everyone else's beliefs too." -chip

"This just in: Bush is a dick and a dumbass. Also, everyone should pretend to convert to Islam to see what would happen. That would be entertaining. What would you do, Osama? What wouuuuld you do?" -Mags

"This latest action by Israel is purely out of the South Africa Apartheid book. South Africa had no more right to keep South Africa 'white' and disenfranchise blacks as Israel does to keep itself 'Jewish' and disenfranchise Arabs." -Simon

"This whole thread has descended into pornographic pictures, discussions about sex, and plans to destroy the universe." -RH3

"Those of us who have stepped beyond such plebeian definitions understand full well that the nature of the god proposed by Christians is one of evil, pure and simple. Now, if you want to say that an all-powerful evil entity can "redefine" his evil as good, you're more than welcome to try and make that argument." -Ozy666

"Three Cheung's in one thread! The technique is simple. Never reply to your opponent's points of view, but challenge his basis for knowing anything at all. Tell him his reasoning is self-refuting and nonsensical. He will get sucked into defending his reasoning and you never have to deal with his points." -Prismatic

"Time heals all wounds. But, of course it's 100% fatal so it's not much of a cure." -Tatarize

"To find an orientation point in all the GOP, tea party, birther, Democratic stew today, I found the Johnny Depp "Alice In Wonderland" movie on HBO and watched the whole thing through. Now I feel as though I can get a grasp on what's going on." -Rozmarija

"To me, religions and beliefs in gods is more likely to be wishful thinking by fearful, superstitious and primitive people than it is to be truth. More like "Well, that is a bunch of nonsense." rather than "I deny those beliefs with my own beliefs!" - Readzalot

"To me, the moral simply is, If you donÂ’t like these things, quit making war or stop acting like itÂ’s all about bravery, patriotism, and heroism. War is about suffering, fear, greed, and the ultimate human degradation.Â” -EasyD2

"To search for and know the truth is the closest I get to what some may call a spiritual path. That's why I read and listen; I take language courses so I can read more and listen to more people. I travel and see as much of the world as possible. I do all this just for the joy of knowledge. Life is its own purpose. We don't have to hunt for a reason to justify our existence." -apostateofthelord

"To speak of faith, then, is to speak of nothing substantial. One who says "I believe because of faith" only says "I believe because I believe." Believers typically seem to mean nothing more, except for the few who will admit that for them, faith means never having to say you were wrong." -DougofCal

"Trying to prove god with the bible is like trying to prove Superman with a comic book." -Robgene

"Turning theist is like embarking on Gullible's Travels." -Rev.Martini

"Uncritical Biblical scholarship is like a bunch of "Dungeons and Dragons" geeks discussing the exact parameters of Level 5 Wizard powers." -GonzoHost

"Underneath this is a great fear of the doubt and skepticism that atheism represents: the denial of their cherished realities. They are afraid that if one person can doubt (after all the convincing evidence they have assembled), then there might be a crack in the foundation that will bring down the whole edifice."- Prismatic

"Usually its the theists who come here with room temperature IQs. Lately we've had some atheists who I wouldn't mind seeing acquire a god belief." -curtt

"We all die, and Jesus would have died anyway, but no, there has to be this horrid story about a sacrificial bloodletting of an innocent man. I'd be just as happy if he would have simply died in his sleep at the age of 85 and pronounced us all forgiven before he went to bed." -Tayana42

"We all have an invisible tattoo of a helicopter on our left butt cheek, which can only be seen using black light. So if you can get Simon Cowell naked in a dark room, you can find out for sure if he's an atheist without actually asking him." -Rillion

"We can discuss people who have these visions. We can try to figure out why we are in such awe when they express those visions with oil on canvas and why when they verbalize those visions we tend to move to the other side of the room." -CarquinezRed

"We cannot solve the mystery of missing socks by involving elves. While it could plausibly be the right answer, the mystery of the socks is a lesser mystery than the mystery of elves. So unless there is some overwhelming evidence in favor of elves, we should rationally reject it." -Tatarize

"We determine the true religion using guidelines laid down by the founder of one of them? That doesn't seem like kind of a rigged game to you?" -MrBehemoth

"We just get angry at the thought of non-atheists of a certain type entering our little atheist club. Like the white trash at the Balmy Beach Club taking umbrage at a brain-damaged orangutan stumbling into the dining room and vomiting in their soup." -mrbehemoth

"We make God in our own image. And I have just a big enough ego that I can be turned on by that. Especially since I don't look like a hippo/possum/snake/scooby-doo thing." -Saurian200

"We'd eat a vegetarian? I'm in! The irony would be... delicious." -Flux

"We've seen Jindal's type here many times: people who insist on assigning attributes and characteristics to atheists and atheism which bear no connection to reality. They seem unable to understand that all of atheism is contained in one simple sentence: I don't believe in God. There's nothing else, but of course that would make a very short article, so it's necessary to insert a bit of padding." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"Well, he have a point. It can't be denied, that Steve Irwin actively asked for it. While any loss of life is a tragedy, of sorts, some tragedies are just less equal than others." -Grahor

"Well, I am a pro-life atheist, so that ought to make your head explode." -AtheistKeith

"Well, I suppose we shouldn't expect more from people who trained from early childhood to ignore cognitive dissonance. "God loves all mankind and he sent a great flood to drown them." "Our god is a loving god, and he will send you to hell to suffer for all eternity if you don't believe it." -Citizen12

"Well, if nuts sprinkled on a turd is your idea of a banana split, then the Republican Party is a banana split." -curtt

"Well, lah-dee-dah! All of a sudden I have to start wearing pants? When did this place get so posh?" -Flux

"Well, Lo, I don't loathe puns. It's just when SnoopyLucy gets on one of her tears she goes at it with all the fervor of an evangelist missionary who's trying to convert a bunch of naked pygmies." -ptcarnahan

"Well, since no theistic philosophy could ever possibly endorse naughty deeds, any naughty deeds are obviously the result of atheistic philosophy by definition." -mrbehemoth

"Well, that sucks. What's the point of being a physicist if you don't get to bash things into each other at near-light speeds?" - Seth

"Were I King of the World, I'd decree that churches must abide by truth-in-advertising laws. Given that I am not, I shall sit idly by, dismayed that the mind of the world has rarely had more than a nodding aquaintance with reason." - chip

"What I am getting at here is that you didn't choose a faith because some god told you to. No god has ever told anyone anything. You chose a faith because you have some need to hold some belief and christianity seems to have been convenient for you." -lahatte

"What I am saying is that despite the increasing opportunities to cry out loud that our political and religious leaders so "generously" provide for us, there remains enough wonder in the world that scepticism need never dampen one's ability to enjoy the truly sublime and beautiful." -Fox

"What if we don't want free will? God gives it to us anyway. By forcing us to have free will, isn't he taking our free will away from us? Therefore we have no free will. God needs a spanking." -Rev.Conor

"What is your native language. Is it tongues?" -Shawwanossoway

"What it comes down to is, if you're nicer than other people who call their religion by the same name you call yours, it's not because you've found the true, real, absolute, creamy centre of your faith and they haven't; it's because they're arseholes and you're not." -MrBehemoth

"What kind of crap is this forced pledge recital anyway? For a pledge to have value, it must be taken freely." -Yoghurt

"What planet did this guy stick his head up his ass on?" -Tony

"What the several writers who wrote about Jesus wrote [was] a variation of the truth known as a lie". - Eljay

"When Adams "womb" was placed in EVE she became a "Wombed" Man i.e. woman. Mankind is composed of Males (without wombs) and Females (with wombs). They are both a kind of Man, hence the term Mankind." -Bodhitharta

"When dealing with someone who thinks a circular argument is logical, one can expect the conversation to travel as far as a horse on a carousel." -AtheistKeith

"When did our society become so stupid that they can't understand fractional dimensions?" -Dingo

"When I left the Catholic church I was determined to make my own life choices, not have them dictated for me. They weren't perfect. Some things worked out well, others didn't. But I wouldn't trade the freedom to make those choices for anything, even if I might have done some things differently." -SusanL12

"When it comes to their religion, theists tend to think in sound bites rather than in an organized way that requires thoughtful analysis, and I donÂ’t do well with sound bites. Anything worth thinking about requires more time and thought for me to involve myself with." -Tayana42

"When life gives you lemons, smash the lemons with your heel, go eat a bunch of expensive candy and laugh at semi-literate creationists on this forum who try to "debunk" evolution." -AtheistKeith

"When tempered with wisdom and experience, I don't see religiosity as being a necessarily bad thing. Organized religion, however, hijacks and corrupts religiosity. Organized religion is to religiosity what cancer is to cell division." -AtheistKeith

"When we bomb a country back to the stone age, we aren't really in a position to complain when stone age ideologies emerge." -Mark Boyd

"When you get arrested coming out of a gay bar and it makes all the news stations, that isn't coming out of the closet. It's getting thrown out of the closet." -Tony

"When you make statements that are just opinions and expect them to be respected as facts, you're going to be very disappointed." -KayKay

"Whenever possible, I always tick the "Other" box on forms, no matter what the question might be. I also put postage stamps on sideways, but that's a different matter, I suppose." -Superhop

"Whenever the question of religion and science comes up, people always look like morons or atheists. We atheists don't have a problem with it, and neither do the morons." -Tatarize

"Where a bear of very little brain who can't tell a logical argument from a bowl of petunias notices only that whenever he argues he gets verbal abuse, which he takes to mean that he must be one of the persecuted righteous and so must be doing something right." -Keepwe

"Whether it's a formula, a worldview or an hypothesis, Occam's Razor will provide you with the closest shave you've ever seen! Say NO to factors that don't factor. Eliminate unrated ratios. A clean explanation is the hallmark of a clean mind!" -Seeker

"Whether or not I'm happy with what I believe is irrelevant. My beliefs are not and cannot be determined by what would make me happy. My beliefs are determined by what I can justify." - Seth351

"Whether or not someone can call themselves "Jewish" seems to me to be so insignificant, it's hardly worth mentioning. And to reach a conclusion regarding the issue by trying to decipher the written and oral traditions of folks that have been dead for thousands of years is weird at best. Everyone needs a hobby, I guess." -Saint Bengel

"While it is a lie, and I think lies are, as a rule, bad, the worst part of a lie is the disrepect it shows those you tell them to. If the disrespect is intended, then go for it." -vaxholm

"While oatmeal might help lower your cholesterol, I don't think I'd recommend allowing it to saturate your head any longer." -elmeraho

"Who won? The terrorists on both sides. In Lebanon, Hezbollah came out looking like protectors and rebuilders, while Israel comes across as the oppressor, targeting civilians. In Israel the warmongers came out looking strong, no-nonsense, you-hit-us-we-kill-you leaders. It's a victory for violence." - Aspie

"Why believe any of it? You are just picking and choosing the bits that fit in with your world view. It is not that the Bible informs your world view, it is that your world view determines which parts of the Bible you will accept as being believable." - Goldblock

"Why human sacrifice? Because humans are a more worthy sacrifice than any amount of animals. The religions are ego-filled but not humanitarian." -Tatarize

"Why is it invariably the ill-versed in science that feel the most qualified to judge good science from bad? Never mind, I think I just answered my own question." -Flux

"Winning a Nobel Prize does not make one's position on a non-related subject any stronger. This is just an argument from authority fallacy, with the Nobel Prize Committee acting as the authority." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"Wishful thinking does not constitute evidence. Faith does not constitute evidence. Irrational belief does not constitute evidence. Anecdote, hearsay, and rumor does not constitute evidence. Untenable authoritarian dogma does not constitute evidence. Lack of reason, damaged critical thinking, and lack of logic is not a substitute for evidence." -Eljay

"With prayer, when things didn't go my way, I had to conjure up some excuse as to why the prayer magic didn't work. I must have been at fault somehow, surely. Now that I accept the fact that there is no prayer magic to be activated, I don't have to worry about the magic. Now I can expend my energies on trying to do what I can to make things better instead of expending my energies on trying to figure out why the magic didn't work." -AtheistKeith

"Without quoting the Bible, can you give us one single reason for believing that God is just, or cares about humans at all one way or another?" -RH3

"Wow, damnation without relief. That's pretty shitty." - Best Peasant

"Wow, that post was like a concerto of stupid, played on the insanophone." -mrbehemoth

"Yeah, at least sex, while observed from the outside, can make you laugh." -Grahor

"Yep, women and Religion. Go figure! You'd think they'd be at the forefront of leading us away from it toward something where you can be kind and decent and marvel at Life minus the hocus pocus. Then again, they bought millions of Thigh Masters." -Crosshatch

"Yes, there's a reason why both "psi" researchers and creationists/ID proponents have to publish in their own respective journals -- because they've failed the criteria needed to be taken seriously by real science." -Flux55

"You always hear about how fat Americans have gotten, but when the camera pans across the crowd at Wimbledon.... it's good to have widescreen." -Twsh

"You are a breathtaking paragon of unintentional irony." -Ibn Tumart

"You are confusing forced slavery with voluntary slavery." - Boditharta

"You are too easily impressed if you think, 'Define your god specifically, and present actual evidence for its existence', is a highly sophisticated critique." -Tenpin3

"You can just thank the Holy Elmer the Chrisians have lost their heretic-burning privileges or you'd be toast." -TSShagnasty

"You cannot be offered your life in enchange for a choice and still call it free. The cosmic rapist cannot rape me and still say he loves me by offering me a choice, his way or hell." -Iconoclast

"You chicks always think we're being condescending. But we really just think you're doing a great job with all those big hard science words, and you look cute with a test tube." -mrbehemoth

"You don't like the label? Tough, because I shall continue to categorize you as religious. I have no better classification for the sort of supernatural, zero evidence beliefs that you seem to have." - Nazrani

"You have to appreciate that on this forum a thread about "Hitler and Christianity" can end up discussing broccoli and dogs." -Saint Bengel

"You know a stance is truly stupid when, to make fun of it, you need only quote it." -Atheist Keith

"You know I tried being original but I found there are already so many original people around here, I just became one of the crowd." -arjaypet

"You know you're a geek when science mistakes in movie previews nearly kill you." -BenMcD

"You know, I was tempted to answer that, but that would propel my geekhood into the stratosphere so I'll just pretend I have no idea." -Ibn Tumart

"You know, that adorable sig pic is the only thing that keeps your posts from being a complete waste of bandwidth." -Queen Maeve

"You know, they just don't make ape-shite netloonies like they used to." -Mo

"You lost. You lost miserably. It was the most embarrassing defeat since your parents tried to raise a sentient being." -mrbehemoth

"You may not be stupid, but you certainly do a flawless impersonation." -DeadWombat

"You must be one of those transitional humans the evolutionists are always talking about. Not quite ape... but close." - Twsh

"You must learn to express yourself in ways people can understand. It is essential for you to learn this so that you can earn a living when you flunk out of college." -freeksngeeks

"You need to learn the Way of the Wombat. Be cynical, be untrusting. You spend your life being pleasantly surprised or being proved correct. There is no downside." -DeadWombat

"You never see a weapon with a smiley face on it. There's a reason for that." -SnoopyLucy

"You seem to want to debate a deity, when I just want to perpetuate a truth." -Ginger09 (Christian)

"You should probably deal with the real problems of our world instead of those imposed by your own ignorance and bigotry. But then again, that wouldn't be very christian of you, would it? " -Skaryon

"You should really emit a beeping sound, what with all that back-pedaling." -Flux55

"You somehow think that religious arguments are something other than funny. If people paid attention, knew the arguments, read the Bible, cared about the truth, religion would suffer greatly and society wouldn't." -Tatarize

"You want to relieve suffering? Take all the vast amounts of time, money, and resources that are wasted worshipping delusions, building expensive edifices to the glory of illusions, paying salaries for the shills of illusions, and providing expensive baubles for the purveyors of illusions and turn it to bettering the lot of mankind." -NonProphet

"You're probably familiar with the saying "Trying to get Atheists to agree is like trying to hurt cats. Although I don't know why anyone would want to hurt cats......well, besides the obvious." - nota

"You've made it waaay too complicated. Just don't seethe a goat in its mother's milk and you'll be fine. All that other stuff is out-of-date nonsense and allegory." -MrBunny2

"Your freedom to be an artist is guaranteed by the society in which you live, and to which you have a moral duty to contribute to in a positive way. Pay your taxes and stop whining." -Superhop

"Your mistake, Sinnecul, is that you are trying to persuade me with the facts." -John76

"Your understanding is dictated by your dogma, not reality. The question of *how* to think with it is irrelevant. Faith is not a way of thinking. It is a way to avoid thinking." -DougofCal

"Zealots need absolute certainty. Reasonable people accept and work with varying degrees of uncertainty, knowing that that is how the universe works." -Flux

"Zombies, after all, are the result of an experimental virus that was released accidentally from a government lab. That's science. Vampires are just myths." -Tony

Fine-tuning argument

2012-02-24T02:42:23Z

Tatarize: /* Fine Tuning Argument for Atheism */

In [[cosmology]], '''fine tuning''' refers to the precise balance of [[cosmological constant]]s that allow the [[observable universe]] to exist as it does. These constants include the speed of light, the rate of expansion of the universe, the force of gravity, the nuclear strong force, the electromagnetic force, and many other parameters of the observable universe. It is claimed that these constants exist in such a state of precise equilibrium that any variation to their values would have resulted in a drastically different universe. The '''fine tuning argument''' states that these values occurring in such a precise state by mere chance is highly improbable, and that there must have been a creator to fine tune these values in order for our universe to exist as it does and for life to exist on Earth. This argument is the same as the anthropic theistic principle.

== Background ==

The argument of fine tuning is a rather new one. It has only become popular since the mid-1990s with recent observations about the observable universe and cosmological constants. Cosmologists have theorized that even minute variations in the values of these constants would have resulted in a radically different universe or one altogether unsuitable for supporting life as we know it.

* ''Example 1:'' The rate of expansion of matter after the [[Big Bang]] had to occur at precisely the right rate to allow our universe to form as it has. If it had expanded any faster, matter would have dissipated too quickly for stars and solar systems to form. If it had occurred any slower, the universe would have collapsed upon itself shortly after the Big Bang, resulting in what is known as a [[Big Crunch]].

* ''Example 2:'' The strong nuclear force is the force which binds protons and neutrons together in the nucleus of an atom. Scientists have calculated that variations in the strong force of as little as ±1% would have drastically affected the breakdown of naturally occurring elements in the universe, prohibiting the formation of stars, black holes, and other natural occurring phenomena.

There are studies of numerous other constants with similar results.

== Apologetics ==

Deists cite this remarkable balance of cosmological constants as evidence of a creator, being a far too unlikely set of circumstances to have occurred naturally. This is quickly becoming the argument of choice of [[creationism]] proponents like [[Lee Strobel]]. Strobel presents this concept as incontrovertible empirical evidence of God in his book [[The Case for a Creator]].

== Formal Statement of the Argument ==

Here is Drange’s formulation:

1. The combination of physical constants that we observe in our universe is the only one capable of sustaining life as we know it.

2. Other combinations of physical constants are conceivable.

3. Therefore, some explanation is needed why our actual combination of physical constants exists rather than a different one.

4. The very best explanation of the given fact is that our universe, with the particular combination of physical constants that it has, was created out of nothing by a single being who is omnipotent, omniscient, all-loving, eternal, and interested in sentient organic systems, and that he “fine-tuned” those constants in a way which would lead to the evolution of such systems.

5. But such a being as described in (4) is what people mean by “God.”

6. Hence [from (4) & (5)], there is good evidence that God exists.

== Fine Tuning Argument for Atheism ==

Some philosophers have noted that the fine tuning argument is not vastly good argument for the existence of God but rather a vastly good argument for the non-existence of God. Largely the argument itself hinges on the narrow range of properties for the universe to develop to allow for life. But, this narrow range are precisely the required range needed for life in this universe to occur naturally if there were no God.

If there were a God, rather than needing 70 sextillion stars and 13.75 billion years, there would only be need of one planet. Rather than having more planets than there are grains of sand on all the beaches of Earth. The only reason this universe needs to be this vast and this old is if life occurs randomly without any intelligent design. If life occurs only by happenstance, then any life that exists should exist in a amazingly vast universe just to allow the chemicals needed to kick up life enough chances to happen to kick up something as complex as life.

If somebody claims to be psychic and they win the lottery three times in a row. That seems to be good evidence. However, if they bought every possible combination of numbers for each of those lotteries. That feat requires no psychic abilities at all.

Only upon the assumption of atheism do we really need these exact values. For only these values allow the formation of life to occur without God and without any outside influences.

The fine-tuning argument is actually therefore a great argument for atheism. Which theists are wrongly claiming as evidence for God.

"The universe looks exactly as it should look if there is no God. How amazing is that exactness? Therefore God exists." -- If the universe looked as if it couldn't exist only by chance, theists would and do claim God exists in that case as well. The universe either cannot happen naturally and therefore God did it, or the universe can happen naturally and what an amazing feat that is and therefore God did it. Resulting in a [[Brian's Paradox]]

=== Richard Carrier's Presentation ===
Richard Carrier stated this argument in an interview with TheBestSchools[http://www.thebestschools.org/blog/2011/12/31/richard-carrier-interview/]:

<blockquote>
:"Similarly the “fine tuning” of the universe’s physical constants: that would be a great proof—if it wasn’t exactly the same thing we’d see if a god didn’t exist. If there is no god, we will only ever find ourselves in a universe finely tuned (in that case, by random chance), because without a god, there is no other kind of universe that can produce us. Likewise, a universe that produced us by chance would have to be enormously vast in size and enormously old, so as to have all the room to mix countless chemicals countless times in countless places so as to have any chance of accidentally kicking up something as complex as life. And that’s exactly the universe we see: one enormously vast in size and age. A godless universe would also only produce life rarely and sparingly, and that’s also what we see: by far most of the universe is lethal to life (being a deadly radiation filled vacuum) and by far most of the matter in the universe is lethal to life (constituting stars and black holes on which no life can ever live). Again, all exactly what we’d expect of a godless universe. Not what we’d expect of a god-made one."

:Thus, we have exactly the universe we’d expect to have if there is no god. Whereas a god does not need vast trillions of star systems and billions of years to make life. He doesn’t need vast quantities of lethal space and deadly matter. Only a godless universe needs that. I make a more detailed survey of this kind of evidence in “Neither Life Nor the Universe Appear Intelligently Designed” in John Loftus’s The End of Christianity. It also does no good to say such a random accidental universe is improbable, because the convenient existence of a marvelously “super-omni” god is just as improbable. Either way you are assuming some amazing luck. Which leaves the evidence. And the evidence is just way more probable if there’s no god. Thus, we’re forced to choose between which lucky accident it was, and the evidence confirms the one and not the other."
</blockquote>

== Counter-apologetics ==

# Essentially this argument is just a variation on the [[argument from design]]. The key difference here is that it misrepresents actual scientific evidence in such a way to support an unscientific conclusion. A more scientific conclusion would be to state that there is some unknown natural phenomenon to explain this apparent "fine tuning". It is also worth mentioning that a counter-argument to design, natural-law argument, and the anthropic principle is also a counter-argument to fine-tuning. See below.
# A problem arises from the premise that the cosmological constants are in fact 'fine tuned' at all. This premise assumes that there is a certain range of values that each constant could assume. The greater these ranges, the more unlikely that a given set of constants would have assumed the values we observe. However, to simply imagine a certain range of possible numerical values that each constant could assume and calculating the probability that this value would be arrived at by mere chance is fallacious for two reasons. Currently, we have no access to data that would tell us a) what range the constants could possibly assume in reality and b) how many trials there were in which the constants assumed certain values. If in a lottery one number were drawn from a pot of five numbers, then winning the lottery would become comparatively likely. Likewise, even if a trial with an extremely unlikely outcome - say winning an actual national lottery - were repeated a sufficient number of times, the outcome would become likely to occur overall. (See next point)
# Scientists theorize that given the infinite nature of time and space, an infinite number of other unobservable universes could exist parallel to our own, each with infinite variations of constants. This is known as the [[multiverse theory]]. Given infinite possibilities, the formation of a universe such as our own is not so inconceivable.
# Another flaw with this argument is that it assumes our universe is finely tuned for the sole purpose of supporting life. This is not the case at all. Given the laws of our universe, scientists theorize that our universe is composed of less than 2% baryonic matter, that is matter consisting of protons, neutrons or other particles equal or greater than that of a proton. Dark matter is by far the most common form of matter in our universe. Our universe, if anything, is far more suited for the creation of black holes than it is for supporting life. Life on our planet constitutes only an insignificant portion of our universe.
# The Earth's total mass is [[wikipedia:Earth|5.9736×10^24 kg]] while the estimated total biomass on Earth is around [[wikipedia:Biomass_(ecology)|7×10^13 kg]]. This means that the percentage of life on Earth is 1.17182269 × 10^-9. That is .00000000117%. The Earth, let alone the universe, is hardly fine tuned for life. Man has [http://books.google.com/books?id=Bd0vzY1x2fYC&pg=PA39&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=0_0 created and tested] much more finely tuned mediums for simple life in the form of specialized agar solutions that support life/medium ratios far greater than .00000000117%.
# In order for the probability argument to be valid, the fundamental constants under consideration have to be independent. That is, one cannot claim that the gravitational constant and the speed of expansion of the universe were individually tuned, since they are clearly related. The electromagnetic force is mediated by massless photons which travel at the speed of light, so therefore the strength of this force is likely related to the speed of light. Similar relationships may yet emerge between other constants.
# If there were a creator who "fine tuned" the universe for our existence, who "fine tuned" the universe in order for said creator to exist? The argument of a creator is infinitely paradoxical.
# The initial premise of the argument is that in order for life to exist, the universe must have such properties that warrant a designer. However in this line of reasoning, the designer of those properties would exist in a state where none of these properties were true. Therefore any properties deemed to require a designer can't be necessary for existence in the first place, as the designer can exist without them. The argument is self-refuting.
# If one starts with the assumption that humanity is an [[accident]], the fine tuning argument makes no sense since if we are an accident, no fine tuning was necessary. For the fine tuning argument to make any sense, one has to start with the assumption that humanity is ''not'' an accident, which begs the question of a creator. But since the purpose of the argument is to prove that there is a god who created us, any such assumption renders the argument circular.
# If we are to consider the chance of the universe existing the way it did, surely the same principle of chance can be reversed. What is the chance that a truly omnipotent God, as proposed by many religions, made the constants, factors and general details of the universe as he did? he would have infinite possibilities meaning the probability would be 1 in infinity - much less than the supposed calculations of those presenting the argument.
# It may be useful to realize that the vast majority of the universe is uninhabitable by any form of life, albeit human life. If there are so many regions of space, and indeed our own planet, that are uninhabitable by life, then why should we call the universe "fine-tuned"?.
# The argument also seems to call into question the omnipotence of the creator. If he were infinitely powerful, why did he make life constrained to survive only in a tiny fraction of the universe? The case for supernatural intervention would be much more plausible if humans found themselves floating in the vacuum of space, on a toxic planet with no oxygen, or somewhere else where our continued survival was a complete mystery to scientists. As it is, we find life only in areas where the facts of biology tell us it can exist. This is exactly what we would expect if we were not the products of omnipotence.
# When considering the arguments fourth premise, which includes "...created out of nothing by a single being who is omnipotent, omniscient, all-loving, eternal...", the question must be raised of how does the God being posited as the creator of said universe gain the attributes stated by the argument? the argument is in no way structured to determine the precise attributes of the personal being of which the presenter asserts. It is not necessary for the creator to be all-loving, he could be making us with the notion of torturing us for all we know. It is not necessary for the creator to be eternal, he could have fizzled out in the creation or could have died of some unfathomable cause. And it is likewise unnecessary for the creator to be omniscient and/or omnipotent, there are logical arguments against the proposition of such attributes, and the being need not be all-powerful/knowing - he could just be really, really powerful and know a lot, but not everything.
# It may be worth noting, also, that the some of the constants specified not not require arbitrary precision. With regards to the [[Goldilocks zone]], the amount Earth can be distanced from the sun is approximately 37%, right out to Mars (yes, our solar system has two planets in the Goldilocks zone). The point being that the so-called precision we find, is actually not that precise in reality (this is one of the more extreme cases, most others can be changed but the difference being not as much).

Firstly, it has to be pointed out that for an omnipotent God the fundamental constants would be irrelevant. An omnipotent God could have created us in a universe with any set of constants had he chose to. But this is not the line of thinking the theist takes. The constants had to be what they are because, as they claim, if they were different we would have no life.
If the constants necessarily had to be what they are than that implies that there is some set of governing rules that even God must follow, that supersede his power. If God HAD to fine-tune the universe to these particular set of constants because not doing so would not have allowed him to bring life into existence (and as they claim in their argument, a different set and there's no life) then God is indeed NOT omnipotent.

Not withstanding the obvious fact that the universe really isn't very congenial towards life, as 99.999% of the observed universe is uninhabitable, Vic Stenger in his book God: The failed hypothesis, quotes a private communication with Martin Wagner in which he points out that:

"In fact, the whole argument from fine-tuning ultimately makes no sense. As my friend Martin Wagner notes, all physical parameters are irrelevant to an omnipotent God. 'he could have created us to live in a hard vacuum if he wanted.'"

Bertrand Russell:

"Why did God issue just those natural laws and no others? If you say that he did it simply from his own good pleasure, and without any reason, you then find that there is something which is not subject to law, and so your train of natural law is interrupted. If you say, as more orthodox theologians do, that in all the laws which God issues he had a reason for giving those laws rather than others -- the reason, of course, being to create the best universe, although you would never think it to look at it -- if there was a reason for the laws which God gave, then God himself was subject to law, and therefore you do not get any advantage by introducing God as an intermediary."

We can view the universe as one of those massive safes that banks keep in their vaults, with a number of dials that must be set to specific values in order to open it. However, in our example, these dials can be literally set to any number, so that an infinite number of combinations are possible. The one combination that will open the safe is analogous to the values of the physical constants of the universe that allow the existence of intelligent life.

The "fine tuning" argument claims that it is, for all intents, impossible to randomly set the the values of the dials and, simply by chance, arrive at the correct combination that will open the safe. Only someone who actually knows the combination can open it. In the argument, this requires the existence of a god who knows the precise setting that will allow life to arise.

However, if this god is the creator of the universe and everything in it, then he is not limited to simply turning the dials on the safe. He must also have been responsible for building the safe itself, and setting the combination that allows it to be opened. This means he also has the ability to adjust the locking mechanism of the safe so that any combination he wants will open it. Therefore, it can no longer be said that only one combination is capable of opening the safe. Now, there is a literally infinite number of combinations that can open it.

Restated in the form of the argument itself: The (apparent) fact that only a specific combination of values of physical constants allows life to arise is, itself, an expression of a fundamental law of the universe. If God can change the values of those physical constants, there is no reason to believe he cannot also change the more fundamental laws that limit the conditions under which life will arise.

This has two fatal consequences for the "fine tuning" argument:

1) If God can, in fact, adjust the "combination" of the safe to any values he wants, this completely refutes the claim that life can only arise under a very specific set of circumstances. Rather, if such a God exists, life should be able to arise under any set of circumstances whatsoever, with infinite possibilities. The "fine tuning" argument, therefore, can no longer be used as evidence for the existence of such a God.

2) If, on the other hand, God cannot adjust the "combination", then this raises a situation that most theists would find unacceptable. It raises the question of who or what actually is responsible for creating the safe, and deciding on its combination. God, in this scenario, is reduced to being a low-level employee of the bank, who is able to open the safe, but is not responsible for the operation of the safe itself, nor entrusted with the ability to set the combination of the safe. Those responsibilities must be taken over by some entity more powerful and important than God. This is incompatible with most theistic beliefs, particularly the Abrahamic monotheistic ones.

To restate the argument, in the form of the [[Transcendental argument for the non-existence of God]] :

Posit X and Y as features of human understanding. In the case of fine-tuning, X is "the combination of physical constants which is necessarily capable of sustaining life" and Y is "the combination of physical constants which is necessarily incapable of sustaining life".

1.X is necessary or has a necessary part (the necessity of being capable of sustaining life).

Y is necessary or has a necessary part (the physical necessity of being hostile to life).

2.If theism is true, then divine creation obtains.

3.If divine creation is true, then all in the universe is contingent to God’s act of creation, and nothing in the universe is necessary.

4.If theism is true, then no X or Y can be necessary or have a necessary part. (from 2 and 3)

5.Theism is false. (from 1 and 4)

The theist can of course deny premise 1, but doing so is a denial of the fine-tuning argument. The first premise of this argument is the same as the first premise of the fine-tuning argument.

The first premise of the fine-tuning argument is:

1. "The combination of physical constants that we observe in our universe is the only one capable of sustaining life as we know it".

This means that:

The combination of physical constants in our universe -> necessarily capable of sustaining life as we know it (denoted by X).

And

The combination of other physical constants -> necessarily incapable of sustaining life as we know it (denoted by Y).

In a similar form of the argument:

1. If theism is true, then divine causation obtains.

2. If divine causation obtains, then all facts of the universe are contingent upon God's act of creation.

3. If theism is true, then life can arise under any possible physical condition. (from 1 and 2)

4. If theism is true, then fine-tuning is invalid. (from 3)

Maybe the transition from premise 2 to 3 requires further justification. Denote the physical constants by {X; Y; Z) and the obtainment of life by L and negation by ~.

A fact of the universe is that {X--> L; Y--> ~L; Z--> ~L}.

Since the fact is contingent upon God's act of creation, then it is not necessary and so can be altered.

If it can be altered then the following can be true {X--> L; Y--> L; Z--> L}. Basically, X, Y, and Z are irrelevant to God if divine causation obtains.

So as a shorthand one can say that “contingency implies the impossibility of principles and absolutes”.

One can of course deny that divine creation obtains, and deny that God created the laws of science. However, this means that God is not the Creator and that he is subject to these laws himself.

Stephen Hawking on the Anthropic Principle:

"The intelligent beings in these regions should therefore not be surprised if they observe that their locality in the universe satisfies the conditions that are necessary for their existence. It is a bit like a rich person living in a wealthy neighborhood not seeing any poverty."

"What I have done is to show that it is possible for the way the universe began to be determined by the laws of science. In that case, it would not be necessary to appeal to God to decide how the universe began. This doesn't prove that there is no God, only that God is not necessary". [Stephen W. Hawking, Der Spiegel, 1989]

"One does not have to appeal to God to set the initial conditions for the creation of the universe, but if one does He would have to act through the laws of physics". [Stephen Hawking, Black Holes & Baby Universes]

Retrieved from "http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=A_Brief_History_of_Time"

The features of humanity have evolved as a result of our environment, rather than our environment being tailored to suit us.

Douglas Adams c.1998:

"Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!' This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it's still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise. I think this may be something we need to be on the watch out for."

Furthermore, the "fine-tuning argument" is a logical fallacy of the "ex-post-facto statistics" type. It applies in situations like this whenever we apply probability laws to past events.

For example, we all know the probability of being dealt a bridge hand of, say, all thirteen spades is quite small. But if we look at any bridge hand after we're dealt it, the probabilities of being dealt that exact hand are just as minuscule.

Given, hypothetically, an array of 52 different universes, the probability of actualizing our universe is 1 in 52. But if we look at any universe after it has been actualized, the probability of that occurring is just as minuscule.

-Life is just one of the possible things that may arise in the universe, and by itself is no more or less important than any of those other things. It's just that, as living beings ourselves, we tend to place a higher value on life than other aspects of the universe.

-We cannot assume that life as we know it is the only possible form that life could take. If the constants of the universe were different, that does not rule out the possibility that intelligent life could nonetheless still arise, albeit in a form currently unimaginable to us.

-It is foolish to say the universe is exquisitely set for the existence of life, since any living thing would instantly die in almost any place in the observed universe.

-The fine-tuning argument is an argument from design, so we can rightly ask, "who designed the designer?". The argument opens itself up for eternal regress. If god designed the universe to support life, this means that god itself has features that lead to the creation of life. The same argument therefore applies to the higher level - it follows that God was created in order to create life. And this God-creator was itself designed to create life, and so on and so forth.

- The argument presupposes that there is a certain range of possible values the constants can take. We don't know whether this is true, we have no idea what values the constants can take or if they can take other values at all.

-The argument presupposes that there is no natural process of creating universes, or that if there is it isn't going to create a universe with our values of the constants. This is, again, just not something we know scientifically. There still isn't a well established scientific theory on how universes are naturally created, so we cannot say that it is unlikely for our universe to have been created naturally (indeed, many of the current hypotheses indicate that our universe was created naturally; but they are not yet proved). Nor are we in the situation where science has established that there is no natural way for a universe to be created. We just don't know enough about universes for this presupposition to be accepted.

In this respect, this is an argument from ignorance. Saying that it is impossible for our universe to have been created naturally in this way is just like saying that the ordered shape of the hexagonal basalt columns of the Giant's Causeway could not have been created naturally. That is, of course, false. One can understand that the basalt columns are natural when one understand enough about how basalt is created and formed naturally. One cannot rule out a natural explanation until one has an understanding of the subject matter's natural behavior. Similarly, since we don't know how universes are created we just don't know enough to determine that the values of the constants in our universe are indicative of an unnatural process.

-The argument is too quick to assert that other values will not result in life. We haven't explored all the various possibilities thoroughly enough to make such a pronouncement. We know slight variations will produce radically different physics, but we're far from knowing that no other constellation of constants will produce complex structures or how common or naturally likely to occur are such combinations. These are two separate issues that should not be confused. Indeed, it is possible that there are values that are more supportive of life, with life more pervasive throughout the spacetime of the universe.

-The argument implicitly assumes that it is possible for a universe to be artificially created with a certain choice of values. While this might sound plausible, it is not necessary. Certain theories on universe-creation, for example, posit that the values are determined randomly due to symmetry breaking, so that there is no way for their creator or the process that creates them to determine these values in advance.

-Another problem is that the anthropic principle holds regardless of fine-tuning. Even if it would take fine-tuning not to support life, the fact that we live in a world that supports life is still not apparently necessary. God still chose just those constants that support life - he just had more choices. This raises the Argument from Contingency, the questions of why things are the way they are, but the evidential fine tuning of things becomes irrelevant.

-Another reply could be that we cannot talk about there being lots of different possible causes, and the probability of the cause being the right one, because we have no way to know how to construct the reference class - the set of possibilities. This would be an absurd double standard. Remember, it was the theists who wanted to get into the probability business in the first place, and to stop playing when it is inconvenient is just hypocrisy. In the absence of any better way of constructing a reference class of possible causes we actually have an excellent reference class to use: Advocates of the fine tuning argument obviously have a reference class of "possible universes" in mind and we can simply use this, and assume that each of these possible universes has an individual possible cause. This, of course, leads us with as many causes as there are possible universes, and if advocates of fine tuning think that most universes are inhospitable to life then they must be claiming that most causes of universes are inhospitable to life. The only way round this is to claim that the reference class of causes is not constructed like that, but the this involves taking a preferential position with no justification: They are wanting to assume that all universes are equally possible, but not that all the causes of these universes are equally possible and they are just adjusting their reference class of causes to fit the answer they want. Furthermore, even if it turned out that the cause of our universe was somehow more likely than the causes of the other universes, this does not imply a designer: By adjusting the reference class like this to get round the problem, unless you can show that your adjustment follows from the cause being a designer, youa re actually admitting that there is no fine tuning problem, that the cause of the universe, for some reason, was more likely than all the other causes that might have occurred. If you lack any sound basis for this, you may as well just apply logic like that to the universe itself anyway.

Also, to quickly spot the inadequacy of the fine-tuning argument, see the following videos on Youtube:

Is the Universe Fine Tuned for Life? [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCKqj-2JXZg]

William Lane Craig 2 - Craig Harder (Refuting WLC's Proofs For God, Part II)
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aixbI7qKNlg&feature=PlayList&p=E5D80EB3D7BAFD74&playnext_from=PL&index=0&playnext=1]

And to read an article which handily refutes the theistic anthropic principle, see [http://www.positiveatheism.org/faq/anthropic.htm]

== Affirming the consequent ==

The Fine Tuning argument presupposes that the phenomenon of life and it being ''presumably'' only possible in a universe with physical constants exactly like the ones in ours is what qualifies this as special or sublime, however, this is based entirely on nothing other than the entities that determine what qualifies this universe as special or sublime are living (humans). This is an [[affirming the consequent]] fallacy. It could also be seen as a [[confirmation bias]] fallacy. In a hypothetical universe with different physical constants, there may be an emergent natural phenomenon that is vastly more complex than the emergence of life, the evolution of life, and the ecology of life. This phenomenon, we will label "phenomenon x", would be impossible in our universe because our physical constants may not permit phenomenon x to occur. There is no objective reason why the possibility of life demands a fine tuner more than phenomenon x. There is also no objective reason why any natural phenomenon, no matter the complexity, should demand a fine tuner any more than another. Hypothetically, if it were shown that life of some kind is possible in most possible universes, but the phenomenon of lightning is only possible in this one, then an apologist might assert that because we occupy the only possible universe with lightning, this universe must have been finely tuned.

A reductio ad absurdum can be constructed to demonstrate the weakness of the argument. If life is improbable then the existence of spaghetti is even more improbable.

1. The combination of physical constants that we observe in our universe is the only one capable of sustaining spaghetti as we know it.

2. Other combinations of physical constants are conceivable.

3. Therefore, some explanation is needed why our actual combination of physical constants exists rather than a different one.

4. The very best explanation of the given fact is that our universe, with the particular combination of physical constants that it has, was created out of nothing by a single being who is omnipotent, omniscient, and interested in spaghetti, and that he “fine-tuned” those constants in a way which would lead to the evolution of such foods.

5. But such a being as described in (4) is what is meant by the "Flying Spaghetti Monster".

6. Hence [from (4) & (5)], there is good evidence that the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" exists.

== Other Counter-Arguments ==

Important links that address the fine-tuning argument extensively:

StrongAtheism.net
[http://www.strongatheism.net/library/against/problems_of_fine_tuning/]

[http://phrenicphilosophy.blogspot.com/2009/07/refuting-fine-tuning-cosmological.html Refuting fine-tuning]
== Links ==
=== See also ===
*[[Anthropic principle]]
*[[Habitable zone]]

=== External links ===
* [http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni.html Cosmology 101] at NASA's Wilkinson Microwave Anisortopy Probe website — This is an outstanding resource for understanding cosmological theory.
* ''[http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=12282 Fine-Tuned Deception: Say hello to the new stealth creationism]'' by [[Sahotra Sarkar]] (in ''The American Prospect'' magazine)
*[http://www.strongatheism.net/library/counter_apologetics/swinburnes_teleological_arguments/ Amazed by Necessary Facts : Swinburne's Teleological Arguments] by [[Francois Tremblay]]
*[http://www.strongatheism.net/library/against/problems_of_fine_tuning/ The Many Problems of the Fine-Tuning Argument] by [[Francois Tremblay]]
*[http://edthemanicstreetpreacher.wordpress.com/2010/02/11/refuting-craig-five-arguments/ Videos refuting William Lane Craig's five ''proofs'' for God] from ''Ed the Manic Street Preacher''
*[http://www.positiveatheism.org/faq/anthropic.htm Theistic Anthropic Principle Refuted / A Survey of Arguments Against the Theistic Anthropic Principle] by Victor Gijsbers for ''Positive Atheism Magazine''
*[http://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2010/05/why-the-universe-is-perfectly-set-up-for-life-is-a-terrible-argument-for-god.html Why "The Universe Is Perfectly Fine-Tuned For Life" Is a Terrible Argument for God] by [[Greta Christina]]

{{Arguments for god}}

[[Category:Arguments]]
[[Category:Arguments for the existence of God]]
[[Category:Cosmological arguments]]

Fine-tuning argument

2012-02-24T02:37:58Z

Tatarize: /* Fine Tuning Argument for Atheism */

In [[cosmology]], '''fine tuning''' refers to the precise balance of [[cosmological constant]]s that allow the [[observable universe]] to exist as it does. These constants include the speed of light, the rate of expansion of the universe, the force of gravity, the nuclear strong force, the electromagnetic force, and many other parameters of the observable universe. It is claimed that these constants exist in such a state of precise equilibrium that any variation to their values would have resulted in a drastically different universe. The '''fine tuning argument''' states that these values occurring in such a precise state by mere chance is highly improbable, and that there must have been a creator to fine tune these values in order for our universe to exist as it does and for life to exist on Earth. This argument is the same as the anthropic theistic principle.

== Background ==

The argument of fine tuning is a rather new one. It has only become popular since the mid-1990s with recent observations about the observable universe and cosmological constants. Cosmologists have theorized that even minute variations in the values of these constants would have resulted in a radically different universe or one altogether unsuitable for supporting life as we know it.

* ''Example 1:'' The rate of expansion of matter after the [[Big Bang]] had to occur at precisely the right rate to allow our universe to form as it has. If it had expanded any faster, matter would have dissipated too quickly for stars and solar systems to form. If it had occurred any slower, the universe would have collapsed upon itself shortly after the Big Bang, resulting in what is known as a [[Big Crunch]].

* ''Example 2:'' The strong nuclear force is the force which binds protons and neutrons together in the nucleus of an atom. Scientists have calculated that variations in the strong force of as little as ±1% would have drastically affected the breakdown of naturally occurring elements in the universe, prohibiting the formation of stars, black holes, and other natural occurring phenomena.

There are studies of numerous other constants with similar results.

== Apologetics ==

Deists cite this remarkable balance of cosmological constants as evidence of a creator, being a far too unlikely set of circumstances to have occurred naturally. This is quickly becoming the argument of choice of [[creationism]] proponents like [[Lee Strobel]]. Strobel presents this concept as incontrovertible empirical evidence of God in his book [[The Case for a Creator]].

== Formal Statement of the Argument ==

Here is Drange’s formulation:

1. The combination of physical constants that we observe in our universe is the only one capable of sustaining life as we know it.

2. Other combinations of physical constants are conceivable.

3. Therefore, some explanation is needed why our actual combination of physical constants exists rather than a different one.

4. The very best explanation of the given fact is that our universe, with the particular combination of physical constants that it has, was created out of nothing by a single being who is omnipotent, omniscient, all-loving, eternal, and interested in sentient organic systems, and that he “fine-tuned” those constants in a way which would lead to the evolution of such systems.

5. But such a being as described in (4) is what people mean by “God.”

6. Hence [from (4) & (5)], there is good evidence that God exists.

== Fine Tuning Argument for Atheism ==

Some philosophers have noted that the fine tuning argument is not vastly good argument for the existence of God but rather a vastly good argument for the non-existence of God. Largely the argument itself hinges on the narrow range of properties for the universe to develop to allow for life. But, this narrow range are precisely the required range needed for life in this universe to occur naturally if there were no God.

If there were a God, rather than needing 70 sextillion stars and 13.75 billion years, there would only be need of one planet. Rather than having more planets than there are grains of sand on all the beaches of Earth. The only reason this universe needs to be this vast and this old is if life occurs randomly without any intelligent design. If life occurs only by happenstance, then any life that exists should exist in a amazingly vast universe just to allow the chemicals needed to kick up life enough chances to happen to kick up something as complex as life.

If somebody claims to be psychic and they win the lottery three times in a row. That seems to be good evidence. However, if they bought every possible combination of numbers for each of those lotteries. That feat requires no psychic abilities at all.

Only upon the assumption of atheism do we really need these exact values. For only these values allow the formation of life to occur without God and without any outside influences.

The fine-tuning argument is actually therefore a great argument for atheism. Which theists are wrongly claiming as evidence for God.

"The universe looks exactly as it should look if there is no God. How amazing is that exactness? Therefore God exists." -- If the universe looked as if it couldn't exist only by chance, theists would and do claim God exists in that case as well. The universe is either cannot happen naturally and therefore God did it, or the universe can happen naturally and what an amazing feat that is and therefore God did it. Resulting in a [[Brian's Paradox]]

=== Richard Carrier's Presentation ===
Richard Carrier stated this argument in an interview with TheBestSchools[http://www.thebestschools.org/blog/2011/12/31/richard-carrier-interview/]:

<blockquote>
:"Similarly the “fine tuning” of the universe’s physical constants: that would be a great proof—if it wasn’t exactly the same thing we’d see if a god didn’t exist. If there is no god, we will only ever find ourselves in a universe finely tuned (in that case, by random chance), because without a god, there is no other kind of universe that can produce us. Likewise, a universe that produced us by chance would have to be enormously vast in size and enormously old, so as to have all the room to mix countless chemicals countless times in countless places so as to have any chance of accidentally kicking up something as complex as life. And that’s exactly the universe we see: one enormously vast in size and age. A godless universe would also only produce life rarely and sparingly, and that’s also what we see: by far most of the universe is lethal to life (being a deadly radiation filled vacuum) and by far most of the matter in the universe is lethal to life (constituting stars and black holes on which no life can ever live). Again, all exactly what we’d expect of a godless universe. Not what we’d expect of a god-made one."

:Thus, we have exactly the universe we’d expect to have if there is no god. Whereas a god does not need vast trillions of star systems and billions of years to make life. He doesn’t need vast quantities of lethal space and deadly matter. Only a godless universe needs that. I make a more detailed survey of this kind of evidence in “Neither Life Nor the Universe Appear Intelligently Designed” in John Loftus’s The End of Christianity. It also does no good to say such a random accidental universe is improbable, because the convenient existence of a marvelously “super-omni” god is just as improbable. Either way you are assuming some amazing luck. Which leaves the evidence. And the evidence is just way more probable if there’s no god. Thus, we’re forced to choose between which lucky accident it was, and the evidence confirms the one and not the other."
</blockquote>

== Counter-apologetics ==

# Essentially this argument is just a variation on the [[argument from design]]. The key difference here is that it misrepresents actual scientific evidence in such a way to support an unscientific conclusion. A more scientific conclusion would be to state that there is some unknown natural phenomenon to explain this apparent "fine tuning". It is also worth mentioning that a counter-argument to design, natural-law argument, and the anthropic principle is also a counter-argument to fine-tuning. See below.
# A problem arises from the premise that the cosmological constants are in fact 'fine tuned' at all. This premise assumes that there is a certain range of values that each constant could assume. The greater these ranges, the more unlikely that a given set of constants would have assumed the values we observe. However, to simply imagine a certain range of possible numerical values that each constant could assume and calculating the probability that this value would be arrived at by mere chance is fallacious for two reasons. Currently, we have no access to data that would tell us a) what range the constants could possibly assume in reality and b) how many trials there were in which the constants assumed certain values. If in a lottery one number were drawn from a pot of five numbers, then winning the lottery would become comparatively likely. Likewise, even if a trial with an extremely unlikely outcome - say winning an actual national lottery - were repeated a sufficient number of times, the outcome would become likely to occur overall. (See next point)
# Scientists theorize that given the infinite nature of time and space, an infinite number of other unobservable universes could exist parallel to our own, each with infinite variations of constants. This is known as the [[multiverse theory]]. Given infinite possibilities, the formation of a universe such as our own is not so inconceivable.
# Another flaw with this argument is that it assumes our universe is finely tuned for the sole purpose of supporting life. This is not the case at all. Given the laws of our universe, scientists theorize that our universe is composed of less than 2% baryonic matter, that is matter consisting of protons, neutrons or other particles equal or greater than that of a proton. Dark matter is by far the most common form of matter in our universe. Our universe, if anything, is far more suited for the creation of black holes than it is for supporting life. Life on our planet constitutes only an insignificant portion of our universe.
# The Earth's total mass is [[wikipedia:Earth|5.9736×10^24 kg]] while the estimated total biomass on Earth is around [[wikipedia:Biomass_(ecology)|7×10^13 kg]]. This means that the percentage of life on Earth is 1.17182269 × 10^-9. That is .00000000117%. The Earth, let alone the universe, is hardly fine tuned for life. Man has [http://books.google.com/books?id=Bd0vzY1x2fYC&pg=PA39&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=0_0 created and tested] much more finely tuned mediums for simple life in the form of specialized agar solutions that support life/medium ratios far greater than .00000000117%.
# In order for the probability argument to be valid, the fundamental constants under consideration have to be independent. That is, one cannot claim that the gravitational constant and the speed of expansion of the universe were individually tuned, since they are clearly related. The electromagnetic force is mediated by massless photons which travel at the speed of light, so therefore the strength of this force is likely related to the speed of light. Similar relationships may yet emerge between other constants.
# If there were a creator who "fine tuned" the universe for our existence, who "fine tuned" the universe in order for said creator to exist? The argument of a creator is infinitely paradoxical.
# The initial premise of the argument is that in order for life to exist, the universe must have such properties that warrant a designer. However in this line of reasoning, the designer of those properties would exist in a state where none of these properties were true. Therefore any properties deemed to require a designer can't be necessary for existence in the first place, as the designer can exist without them. The argument is self-refuting.
# If one starts with the assumption that humanity is an [[accident]], the fine tuning argument makes no sense since if we are an accident, no fine tuning was necessary. For the fine tuning argument to make any sense, one has to start with the assumption that humanity is ''not'' an accident, which begs the question of a creator. But since the purpose of the argument is to prove that there is a god who created us, any such assumption renders the argument circular.
# If we are to consider the chance of the universe existing the way it did, surely the same principle of chance can be reversed. What is the chance that a truly omnipotent God, as proposed by many religions, made the constants, factors and general details of the universe as he did? he would have infinite possibilities meaning the probability would be 1 in infinity - much less than the supposed calculations of those presenting the argument.
# It may be useful to realize that the vast majority of the universe is uninhabitable by any form of life, albeit human life. If there are so many regions of space, and indeed our own planet, that are uninhabitable by life, then why should we call the universe "fine-tuned"?.
# The argument also seems to call into question the omnipotence of the creator. If he were infinitely powerful, why did he make life constrained to survive only in a tiny fraction of the universe? The case for supernatural intervention would be much more plausible if humans found themselves floating in the vacuum of space, on a toxic planet with no oxygen, or somewhere else where our continued survival was a complete mystery to scientists. As it is, we find life only in areas where the facts of biology tell us it can exist. This is exactly what we would expect if we were not the products of omnipotence.
# When considering the arguments fourth premise, which includes "...created out of nothing by a single being who is omnipotent, omniscient, all-loving, eternal...", the question must be raised of how does the God being posited as the creator of said universe gain the attributes stated by the argument? the argument is in no way structured to determine the precise attributes of the personal being of which the presenter asserts. It is not necessary for the creator to be all-loving, he could be making us with the notion of torturing us for all we know. It is not necessary for the creator to be eternal, he could have fizzled out in the creation or could have died of some unfathomable cause. And it is likewise unnecessary for the creator to be omniscient and/or omnipotent, there are logical arguments against the proposition of such attributes, and the being need not be all-powerful/knowing - he could just be really, really powerful and know a lot, but not everything.
# It may be worth noting, also, that the some of the constants specified not not require arbitrary precision. With regards to the [[Goldilocks zone]], the amount Earth can be distanced from the sun is approximately 37%, right out to Mars (yes, our solar system has two planets in the Goldilocks zone). The point being that the so-called precision we find, is actually not that precise in reality (this is one of the more extreme cases, most others can be changed but the difference being not as much).

Firstly, it has to be pointed out that for an omnipotent God the fundamental constants would be irrelevant. An omnipotent God could have created us in a universe with any set of constants had he chose to. But this is not the line of thinking the theist takes. The constants had to be what they are because, as they claim, if they were different we would have no life.
If the constants necessarily had to be what they are than that implies that there is some set of governing rules that even God must follow, that supersede his power. If God HAD to fine-tune the universe to these particular set of constants because not doing so would not have allowed him to bring life into existence (and as they claim in their argument, a different set and there's no life) then God is indeed NOT omnipotent.

Not withstanding the obvious fact that the universe really isn't very congenial towards life, as 99.999% of the observed universe is uninhabitable, Vic Stenger in his book God: The failed hypothesis, quotes a private communication with Martin Wagner in which he points out that:

"In fact, the whole argument from fine-tuning ultimately makes no sense. As my friend Martin Wagner notes, all physical parameters are irrelevant to an omnipotent God. 'he could have created us to live in a hard vacuum if he wanted.'"

Bertrand Russell:

"Why did God issue just those natural laws and no others? If you say that he did it simply from his own good pleasure, and without any reason, you then find that there is something which is not subject to law, and so your train of natural law is interrupted. If you say, as more orthodox theologians do, that in all the laws which God issues he had a reason for giving those laws rather than others -- the reason, of course, being to create the best universe, although you would never think it to look at it -- if there was a reason for the laws which God gave, then God himself was subject to law, and therefore you do not get any advantage by introducing God as an intermediary."

We can view the universe as one of those massive safes that banks keep in their vaults, with a number of dials that must be set to specific values in order to open it. However, in our example, these dials can be literally set to any number, so that an infinite number of combinations are possible. The one combination that will open the safe is analogous to the values of the physical constants of the universe that allow the existence of intelligent life.

The "fine tuning" argument claims that it is, for all intents, impossible to randomly set the the values of the dials and, simply by chance, arrive at the correct combination that will open the safe. Only someone who actually knows the combination can open it. In the argument, this requires the existence of a god who knows the precise setting that will allow life to arise.

However, if this god is the creator of the universe and everything in it, then he is not limited to simply turning the dials on the safe. He must also have been responsible for building the safe itself, and setting the combination that allows it to be opened. This means he also has the ability to adjust the locking mechanism of the safe so that any combination he wants will open it. Therefore, it can no longer be said that only one combination is capable of opening the safe. Now, there is a literally infinite number of combinations that can open it.

Restated in the form of the argument itself: The (apparent) fact that only a specific combination of values of physical constants allows life to arise is, itself, an expression of a fundamental law of the universe. If God can change the values of those physical constants, there is no reason to believe he cannot also change the more fundamental laws that limit the conditions under which life will arise.

This has two fatal consequences for the "fine tuning" argument:

1) If God can, in fact, adjust the "combination" of the safe to any values he wants, this completely refutes the claim that life can only arise under a very specific set of circumstances. Rather, if such a God exists, life should be able to arise under any set of circumstances whatsoever, with infinite possibilities. The "fine tuning" argument, therefore, can no longer be used as evidence for the existence of such a God.

2) If, on the other hand, God cannot adjust the "combination", then this raises a situation that most theists would find unacceptable. It raises the question of who or what actually is responsible for creating the safe, and deciding on its combination. God, in this scenario, is reduced to being a low-level employee of the bank, who is able to open the safe, but is not responsible for the operation of the safe itself, nor entrusted with the ability to set the combination of the safe. Those responsibilities must be taken over by some entity more powerful and important than God. This is incompatible with most theistic beliefs, particularly the Abrahamic monotheistic ones.

To restate the argument, in the form of the [[Transcendental argument for the non-existence of God]] :

Posit X and Y as features of human understanding. In the case of fine-tuning, X is "the combination of physical constants which is necessarily capable of sustaining life" and Y is "the combination of physical constants which is necessarily incapable of sustaining life".

1.X is necessary or has a necessary part (the necessity of being capable of sustaining life).

Y is necessary or has a necessary part (the physical necessity of being hostile to life).

2.If theism is true, then divine creation obtains.

3.If divine creation is true, then all in the universe is contingent to God’s act of creation, and nothing in the universe is necessary.

4.If theism is true, then no X or Y can be necessary or have a necessary part. (from 2 and 3)

5.Theism is false. (from 1 and 4)

The theist can of course deny premise 1, but doing so is a denial of the fine-tuning argument. The first premise of this argument is the same as the first premise of the fine-tuning argument.

The first premise of the fine-tuning argument is:

1. "The combination of physical constants that we observe in our universe is the only one capable of sustaining life as we know it".

This means that:

The combination of physical constants in our universe -> necessarily capable of sustaining life as we know it (denoted by X).

And

The combination of other physical constants -> necessarily incapable of sustaining life as we know it (denoted by Y).

In a similar form of the argument:

1. If theism is true, then divine causation obtains.

2. If divine causation obtains, then all facts of the universe are contingent upon God's act of creation.

3. If theism is true, then life can arise under any possible physical condition. (from 1 and 2)

4. If theism is true, then fine-tuning is invalid. (from 3)

Maybe the transition from premise 2 to 3 requires further justification. Denote the physical constants by {X; Y; Z) and the obtainment of life by L and negation by ~.

A fact of the universe is that {X--> L; Y--> ~L; Z--> ~L}.

Since the fact is contingent upon God's act of creation, then it is not necessary and so can be altered.

If it can be altered then the following can be true {X--> L; Y--> L; Z--> L}. Basically, X, Y, and Z are irrelevant to God if divine causation obtains.

So as a shorthand one can say that “contingency implies the impossibility of principles and absolutes”.

One can of course deny that divine creation obtains, and deny that God created the laws of science. However, this means that God is not the Creator and that he is subject to these laws himself.

Stephen Hawking on the Anthropic Principle:

"The intelligent beings in these regions should therefore not be surprised if they observe that their locality in the universe satisfies the conditions that are necessary for their existence. It is a bit like a rich person living in a wealthy neighborhood not seeing any poverty."

"What I have done is to show that it is possible for the way the universe began to be determined by the laws of science. In that case, it would not be necessary to appeal to God to decide how the universe began. This doesn't prove that there is no God, only that God is not necessary". [Stephen W. Hawking, Der Spiegel, 1989]

"One does not have to appeal to God to set the initial conditions for the creation of the universe, but if one does He would have to act through the laws of physics". [Stephen Hawking, Black Holes & Baby Universes]

Retrieved from "http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=A_Brief_History_of_Time"

The features of humanity have evolved as a result of our environment, rather than our environment being tailored to suit us.

Douglas Adams c.1998:

"Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!' This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it's still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise. I think this may be something we need to be on the watch out for."

Furthermore, the "fine-tuning argument" is a logical fallacy of the "ex-post-facto statistics" type. It applies in situations like this whenever we apply probability laws to past events.

For example, we all know the probability of being dealt a bridge hand of, say, all thirteen spades is quite small. But if we look at any bridge hand after we're dealt it, the probabilities of being dealt that exact hand are just as minuscule.

Given, hypothetically, an array of 52 different universes, the probability of actualizing our universe is 1 in 52. But if we look at any universe after it has been actualized, the probability of that occurring is just as minuscule.

-Life is just one of the possible things that may arise in the universe, and by itself is no more or less important than any of those other things. It's just that, as living beings ourselves, we tend to place a higher value on life than other aspects of the universe.

-We cannot assume that life as we know it is the only possible form that life could take. If the constants of the universe were different, that does not rule out the possibility that intelligent life could nonetheless still arise, albeit in a form currently unimaginable to us.

-It is foolish to say the universe is exquisitely set for the existence of life, since any living thing would instantly die in almost any place in the observed universe.

-The fine-tuning argument is an argument from design, so we can rightly ask, "who designed the designer?". The argument opens itself up for eternal regress. If god designed the universe to support life, this means that god itself has features that lead to the creation of life. The same argument therefore applies to the higher level - it follows that God was created in order to create life. And this God-creator was itself designed to create life, and so on and so forth.

- The argument presupposes that there is a certain range of possible values the constants can take. We don't know whether this is true, we have no idea what values the constants can take or if they can take other values at all.

-The argument presupposes that there is no natural process of creating universes, or that if there is it isn't going to create a universe with our values of the constants. This is, again, just not something we know scientifically. There still isn't a well established scientific theory on how universes are naturally created, so we cannot say that it is unlikely for our universe to have been created naturally (indeed, many of the current hypotheses indicate that our universe was created naturally; but they are not yet proved). Nor are we in the situation where science has established that there is no natural way for a universe to be created. We just don't know enough about universes for this presupposition to be accepted.

In this respect, this is an argument from ignorance. Saying that it is impossible for our universe to have been created naturally in this way is just like saying that the ordered shape of the hexagonal basalt columns of the Giant's Causeway could not have been created naturally. That is, of course, false. One can understand that the basalt columns are natural when one understand enough about how basalt is created and formed naturally. One cannot rule out a natural explanation until one has an understanding of the subject matter's natural behavior. Similarly, since we don't know how universes are created we just don't know enough to determine that the values of the constants in our universe are indicative of an unnatural process.

-The argument is too quick to assert that other values will not result in life. We haven't explored all the various possibilities thoroughly enough to make such a pronouncement. We know slight variations will produce radically different physics, but we're far from knowing that no other constellation of constants will produce complex structures or how common or naturally likely to occur are such combinations. These are two separate issues that should not be confused. Indeed, it is possible that there are values that are more supportive of life, with life more pervasive throughout the spacetime of the universe.

-The argument implicitly assumes that it is possible for a universe to be artificially created with a certain choice of values. While this might sound plausible, it is not necessary. Certain theories on universe-creation, for example, posit that the values are determined randomly due to symmetry breaking, so that there is no way for their creator or the process that creates them to determine these values in advance.

-Another problem is that the anthropic principle holds regardless of fine-tuning. Even if it would take fine-tuning not to support life, the fact that we live in a world that supports life is still not apparently necessary. God still chose just those constants that support life - he just had more choices. This raises the Argument from Contingency, the questions of why things are the way they are, but the evidential fine tuning of things becomes irrelevant.

-Another reply could be that we cannot talk about there being lots of different possible causes, and the probability of the cause being the right one, because we have no way to know how to construct the reference class - the set of possibilities. This would be an absurd double standard. Remember, it was the theists who wanted to get into the probability business in the first place, and to stop playing when it is inconvenient is just hypocrisy. In the absence of any better way of constructing a reference class of possible causes we actually have an excellent reference class to use: Advocates of the fine tuning argument obviously have a reference class of "possible universes" in mind and we can simply use this, and assume that each of these possible universes has an individual possible cause. This, of course, leads us with as many causes as there are possible universes, and if advocates of fine tuning think that most universes are inhospitable to life then they must be claiming that most causes of universes are inhospitable to life. The only way round this is to claim that the reference class of causes is not constructed like that, but the this involves taking a preferential position with no justification: They are wanting to assume that all universes are equally possible, but not that all the causes of these universes are equally possible and they are just adjusting their reference class of causes to fit the answer they want. Furthermore, even if it turned out that the cause of our universe was somehow more likely than the causes of the other universes, this does not imply a designer: By adjusting the reference class like this to get round the problem, unless you can show that your adjustment follows from the cause being a designer, youa re actually admitting that there is no fine tuning problem, that the cause of the universe, for some reason, was more likely than all the other causes that might have occurred. If you lack any sound basis for this, you may as well just apply logic like that to the universe itself anyway.

Also, to quickly spot the inadequacy of the fine-tuning argument, see the following videos on Youtube:

Is the Universe Fine Tuned for Life? [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCKqj-2JXZg]

William Lane Craig 2 - Craig Harder (Refuting WLC's Proofs For God, Part II)
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aixbI7qKNlg&feature=PlayList&p=E5D80EB3D7BAFD74&playnext_from=PL&index=0&playnext=1]

And to read an article which handily refutes the theistic anthropic principle, see [http://www.positiveatheism.org/faq/anthropic.htm]

== Affirming the consequent ==

The Fine Tuning argument presupposes that the phenomenon of life and it being ''presumably'' only possible in a universe with physical constants exactly like the ones in ours is what qualifies this as special or sublime, however, this is based entirely on nothing other than the entities that determine what qualifies this universe as special or sublime are living (humans). This is an [[affirming the consequent]] fallacy. It could also be seen as a [[confirmation bias]] fallacy. In a hypothetical universe with different physical constants, there may be an emergent natural phenomenon that is vastly more complex than the emergence of life, the evolution of life, and the ecology of life. This phenomenon, we will label "phenomenon x", would be impossible in our universe because our physical constants may not permit phenomenon x to occur. There is no objective reason why the possibility of life demands a fine tuner more than phenomenon x. There is also no objective reason why any natural phenomenon, no matter the complexity, should demand a fine tuner any more than another. Hypothetically, if it were shown that life of some kind is possible in most possible universes, but the phenomenon of lightning is only possible in this one, then an apologist might assert that because we occupy the only possible universe with lightning, this universe must have been finely tuned.

A reductio ad absurdum can be constructed to demonstrate the weakness of the argument. If life is improbable then the existence of spaghetti is even more improbable.

1. The combination of physical constants that we observe in our universe is the only one capable of sustaining spaghetti as we know it.

2. Other combinations of physical constants are conceivable.

3. Therefore, some explanation is needed why our actual combination of physical constants exists rather than a different one.

4. The very best explanation of the given fact is that our universe, with the particular combination of physical constants that it has, was created out of nothing by a single being who is omnipotent, omniscient, and interested in spaghetti, and that he “fine-tuned” those constants in a way which would lead to the evolution of such foods.

5. But such a being as described in (4) is what is meant by the "Flying Spaghetti Monster".

6. Hence [from (4) & (5)], there is good evidence that the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" exists.

== Other Counter-Arguments ==

Important links that address the fine-tuning argument extensively:

StrongAtheism.net
[http://www.strongatheism.net/library/against/problems_of_fine_tuning/]

[http://phrenicphilosophy.blogspot.com/2009/07/refuting-fine-tuning-cosmological.html Refuting fine-tuning]
== Links ==
=== See also ===
*[[Anthropic principle]]
*[[Habitable zone]]

=== External links ===
* [http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni.html Cosmology 101] at NASA's Wilkinson Microwave Anisortopy Probe website — This is an outstanding resource for understanding cosmological theory.
* ''[http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=12282 Fine-Tuned Deception: Say hello to the new stealth creationism]'' by [[Sahotra Sarkar]] (in ''The American Prospect'' magazine)
*[http://www.strongatheism.net/library/counter_apologetics/swinburnes_teleological_arguments/ Amazed by Necessary Facts : Swinburne's Teleological Arguments] by [[Francois Tremblay]]
*[http://www.strongatheism.net/library/against/problems_of_fine_tuning/ The Many Problems of the Fine-Tuning Argument] by [[Francois Tremblay]]
*[http://edthemanicstreetpreacher.wordpress.com/2010/02/11/refuting-craig-five-arguments/ Videos refuting William Lane Craig's five ''proofs'' for God] from ''Ed the Manic Street Preacher''
*[http://www.positiveatheism.org/faq/anthropic.htm Theistic Anthropic Principle Refuted / A Survey of Arguments Against the Theistic Anthropic Principle] by Victor Gijsbers for ''Positive Atheism Magazine''
*[http://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2010/05/why-the-universe-is-perfectly-set-up-for-life-is-a-terrible-argument-for-god.html Why "The Universe Is Perfectly Fine-Tuned For Life" Is a Terrible Argument for God] by [[Greta Christina]]

{{Arguments for god}}

[[Category:Arguments]]
[[Category:Arguments for the existence of God]]
[[Category:Cosmological arguments]]

Brian's Paradox

2012-02-24T02:29:39Z

Tatarize:

=Brian's Paradox=

Brian's Paradox occurs when all outcomes result in theists winning. It was coined by [[Tracie Harris]] and is inspired by the Monty Python movie the Life of Brian.

:Brian: I'm not the Messiah! Will you please listen? I am not the Messiah, do you understand? Honestly!

:Girl: Only the true Messiah denies His divinity.

:Brian: What? Well, what sort of chance does that give me? All right! I am the Messiah!

:Followers: He is! He is the Messiah!

Brian's Paradox

2012-02-24T02:29:09Z

Tatarize:

=Brian's Paradox=

Brian's Paradox occurs when all outcomes result in theists winning. It was coined by [[Traci Harris]] and is inspired by the Monty Python movie the Life of Brian.

:Brian: I'm not the Messiah! Will you please listen? I am not the Messiah, do you understand? Honestly!

:Girl: Only the true Messiah denies His divinity.

:Brian: What? Well, what sort of chance does that give me? All right! I am the Messiah!

:Followers: He is! He is the Messiah!

Fine-tuning argument

2012-02-24T02:23:42Z

Tatarize: Added the fine tuning argument for atheism

In [[cosmology]], '''fine tuning''' refers to the precise balance of [[cosmological constant]]s that allow the [[observable universe]] to exist as it does. These constants include the speed of light, the rate of expansion of the universe, the force of gravity, the nuclear strong force, the electromagnetic force, and many other parameters of the observable universe. It is claimed that these constants exist in such a state of precise equilibrium that any variation to their values would have resulted in a drastically different universe. The '''fine tuning argument''' states that these values occurring in such a precise state by mere chance is highly improbable, and that there must have been a creator to fine tune these values in order for our universe to exist as it does and for life to exist on Earth. This argument is the same as the anthropic theistic principle.

== Background ==

The argument of fine tuning is a rather new one. It has only become popular since the mid-1990s with recent observations about the observable universe and cosmological constants. Cosmologists have theorized that even minute variations in the values of these constants would have resulted in a radically different universe or one altogether unsuitable for supporting life as we know it.

* ''Example 1:'' The rate of expansion of matter after the [[Big Bang]] had to occur at precisely the right rate to allow our universe to form as it has. If it had expanded any faster, matter would have dissipated too quickly for stars and solar systems to form. If it had occurred any slower, the universe would have collapsed upon itself shortly after the Big Bang, resulting in what is known as a [[Big Crunch]].

* ''Example 2:'' The strong nuclear force is the force which binds protons and neutrons together in the nucleus of an atom. Scientists have calculated that variations in the strong force of as little as ±1% would have drastically affected the breakdown of naturally occurring elements in the universe, prohibiting the formation of stars, black holes, and other natural occurring phenomena.

There are studies of numerous other constants with similar results.

== Apologetics ==

Deists cite this remarkable balance of cosmological constants as evidence of a creator, being a far too unlikely set of circumstances to have occurred naturally. This is quickly becoming the argument of choice of [[creationism]] proponents like [[Lee Strobel]]. Strobel presents this concept as incontrovertible empirical evidence of God in his book [[The Case for a Creator]].

== Formal Statement of the Argument ==

Here is Drange’s formulation:

1. The combination of physical constants that we observe in our universe is the only one capable of sustaining life as we know it.

2. Other combinations of physical constants are conceivable.

3. Therefore, some explanation is needed why our actual combination of physical constants exists rather than a different one.

4. The very best explanation of the given fact is that our universe, with the particular combination of physical constants that it has, was created out of nothing by a single being who is omnipotent, omniscient, all-loving, eternal, and interested in sentient organic systems, and that he “fine-tuned” those constants in a way which would lead to the evolution of such systems.

5. But such a being as described in (4) is what people mean by “God.”

6. Hence [from (4) & (5)], there is good evidence that God exists.

== Fine Tuning Argument for Atheism ==

Some philosophers have noted that the fine tuning argument is not vastly good argument for the existence of God but rather a vastly good argument for the non-existence of God. Largely the argument itself hinges on the narrow range of properties for the universe to develop to allow for life. But, this narrow range are precisely the required range needed for life in this universe to occur naturally if there were no God.

If there were a God, rather than needing 70 sextillion stars and 13.75 billion years, there would only be need of one planet. Rather than having more planets than there are grains of sand on all the beaches of Earth. The only reason this universe needs to be this vast and this old is if life occurs randomly without any intelligent design. If life occurs only by happenstance, then any life that exists should exist in a amazingly vast universe just to allow the chemicals needed to kick up life enough chances to happen to kick up something as complex as life.

If somebody claims to be psychic and they win the lottery three times in a row. That seems to be good evidence. However, if they bought every possible combination of numbers for each of those lotteries. That feat requires no psychic abilities at all.

Only upon the assumption of atheism do we really need these exact values. For only these values allow the formation of life to occur without God and without any outside influences.

The fine-tuning argument is actually therefore a great argument for atheism. Which theists are wrongly claiming as evidence for God.

"The universe looks exactly as it should look if there is no God. How amazing is that exactness? Therefore God exists." -- If the universe looked as if it couldn't exist only by chance, theists would and do claim God exists in that case as well. The universe is either cannot happen naturally and therefore God did it, or the universe can happen naturally and what an amazing feat that is and therefore God did it. Resulting in a [[Brian's Paradox]]

== Counter-apologetics ==

# Essentially this argument is just a variation on the [[argument from design]]. The key difference here is that it misrepresents actual scientific evidence in such a way to support an unscientific conclusion. A more scientific conclusion would be to state that there is some unknown natural phenomenon to explain this apparent "fine tuning". It is also worth mentioning that a counter-argument to design, natural-law argument, and the anthropic principle is also a counter-argument to fine-tuning. See below.
# A problem arises from the premise that the cosmological constants are in fact 'fine tuned' at all. This premise assumes that there is a certain range of values that each constant could assume. The greater these ranges, the more unlikely that a given set of constants would have assumed the values we observe. However, to simply imagine a certain range of possible numerical values that each constant could assume and calculating the probability that this value would be arrived at by mere chance is fallacious for two reasons. Currently, we have no access to data that would tell us a) what range the constants could possibly assume in reality and b) how many trials there were in which the constants assumed certain values. If in a lottery one number were drawn from a pot of five numbers, then winning the lottery would become comparatively likely. Likewise, even if a trial with an extremely unlikely outcome - say winning an actual national lottery - were repeated a sufficient number of times, the outcome would become likely to occur overall. (See next point)
# Scientists theorize that given the infinite nature of time and space, an infinite number of other unobservable universes could exist parallel to our own, each with infinite variations of constants. This is known as the [[multiverse theory]]. Given infinite possibilities, the formation of a universe such as our own is not so inconceivable.
# Another flaw with this argument is that it assumes our universe is finely tuned for the sole purpose of supporting life. This is not the case at all. Given the laws of our universe, scientists theorize that our universe is composed of less than 2% baryonic matter, that is matter consisting of protons, neutrons or other particles equal or greater than that of a proton. Dark matter is by far the most common form of matter in our universe. Our universe, if anything, is far more suited for the creation of black holes than it is for supporting life. Life on our planet constitutes only an insignificant portion of our universe.
# The Earth's total mass is [[wikipedia:Earth|5.9736×10^24 kg]] while the estimated total biomass on Earth is around [[wikipedia:Biomass_(ecology)|7×10^13 kg]]. This means that the percentage of life on Earth is 1.17182269 × 10^-9. That is .00000000117%. The Earth, let alone the universe, is hardly fine tuned for life. Man has [http://books.google.com/books?id=Bd0vzY1x2fYC&pg=PA39&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=0_0 created and tested] much more finely tuned mediums for simple life in the form of specialized agar solutions that support life/medium ratios far greater than .00000000117%.
# In order for the probability argument to be valid, the fundamental constants under consideration have to be independent. That is, one cannot claim that the gravitational constant and the speed of expansion of the universe were individually tuned, since they are clearly related. The electromagnetic force is mediated by massless photons which travel at the speed of light, so therefore the strength of this force is likely related to the speed of light. Similar relationships may yet emerge between other constants.
# If there were a creator who "fine tuned" the universe for our existence, who "fine tuned" the universe in order for said creator to exist? The argument of a creator is infinitely paradoxical.
# The initial premise of the argument is that in order for life to exist, the universe must have such properties that warrant a designer. However in this line of reasoning, the designer of those properties would exist in a state where none of these properties were true. Therefore any properties deemed to require a designer can't be necessary for existence in the first place, as the designer can exist without them. The argument is self-refuting.
# If one starts with the assumption that humanity is an [[accident]], the fine tuning argument makes no sense since if we are an accident, no fine tuning was necessary. For the fine tuning argument to make any sense, one has to start with the assumption that humanity is ''not'' an accident, which begs the question of a creator. But since the purpose of the argument is to prove that there is a god who created us, any such assumption renders the argument circular.
# If we are to consider the chance of the universe existing the way it did, surely the same principle of chance can be reversed. What is the chance that a truly omnipotent God, as proposed by many religions, made the constants, factors and general details of the universe as he did? he would have infinite possibilities meaning the probability would be 1 in infinity - much less than the supposed calculations of those presenting the argument.
# It may be useful to realize that the vast majority of the universe is uninhabitable by any form of life, albeit human life. If there are so many regions of space, and indeed our own planet, that are uninhabitable by life, then why should we call the universe "fine-tuned"?.
# The argument also seems to call into question the omnipotence of the creator. If he were infinitely powerful, why did he make life constrained to survive only in a tiny fraction of the universe? The case for supernatural intervention would be much more plausible if humans found themselves floating in the vacuum of space, on a toxic planet with no oxygen, or somewhere else where our continued survival was a complete mystery to scientists. As it is, we find life only in areas where the facts of biology tell us it can exist. This is exactly what we would expect if we were not the products of omnipotence.
# When considering the arguments fourth premise, which includes "...created out of nothing by a single being who is omnipotent, omniscient, all-loving, eternal...", the question must be raised of how does the God being posited as the creator of said universe gain the attributes stated by the argument? the argument is in no way structured to determine the precise attributes of the personal being of which the presenter asserts. It is not necessary for the creator to be all-loving, he could be making us with the notion of torturing us for all we know. It is not necessary for the creator to be eternal, he could have fizzled out in the creation or could have died of some unfathomable cause. And it is likewise unnecessary for the creator to be omniscient and/or omnipotent, there are logical arguments against the proposition of such attributes, and the being need not be all-powerful/knowing - he could just be really, really powerful and know a lot, but not everything.
# It may be worth noting, also, that the some of the constants specified not not require arbitrary precision. With regards to the [[Goldilocks zone]], the amount Earth can be distanced from the sun is approximately 37%, right out to Mars (yes, our solar system has two planets in the Goldilocks zone). The point being that the so-called precision we find, is actually not that precise in reality (this is one of the more extreme cases, most others can be changed but the difference being not as much).

Firstly, it has to be pointed out that for an omnipotent God the fundamental constants would be irrelevant. An omnipotent God could have created us in a universe with any set of constants had he chose to. But this is not the line of thinking the theist takes. The constants had to be what they are because, as they claim, if they were different we would have no life.
If the constants necessarily had to be what they are than that implies that there is some set of governing rules that even God must follow, that supersede his power. If God HAD to fine-tune the universe to these particular set of constants because not doing so would not have allowed him to bring life into existence (and as they claim in their argument, a different set and there's no life) then God is indeed NOT omnipotent.

Not withstanding the obvious fact that the universe really isn't very congenial towards life, as 99.999% of the observed universe is uninhabitable, Vic Stenger in his book God: The failed hypothesis, quotes a private communication with Martin Wagner in which he points out that:

"In fact, the whole argument from fine-tuning ultimately makes no sense. As my friend Martin Wagner notes, all physical parameters are irrelevant to an omnipotent God. 'he could have created us to live in a hard vacuum if he wanted.'"

Bertrand Russell:

"Why did God issue just those natural laws and no others? If you say that he did it simply from his own good pleasure, and without any reason, you then find that there is something which is not subject to law, and so your train of natural law is interrupted. If you say, as more orthodox theologians do, that in all the laws which God issues he had a reason for giving those laws rather than others -- the reason, of course, being to create the best universe, although you would never think it to look at it -- if there was a reason for the laws which God gave, then God himself was subject to law, and therefore you do not get any advantage by introducing God as an intermediary."

We can view the universe as one of those massive safes that banks keep in their vaults, with a number of dials that must be set to specific values in order to open it. However, in our example, these dials can be literally set to any number, so that an infinite number of combinations are possible. The one combination that will open the safe is analogous to the values of the physical constants of the universe that allow the existence of intelligent life.

The "fine tuning" argument claims that it is, for all intents, impossible to randomly set the the values of the dials and, simply by chance, arrive at the correct combination that will open the safe. Only someone who actually knows the combination can open it. In the argument, this requires the existence of a god who knows the precise setting that will allow life to arise.

However, if this god is the creator of the universe and everything in it, then he is not limited to simply turning the dials on the safe. He must also have been responsible for building the safe itself, and setting the combination that allows it to be opened. This means he also has the ability to adjust the locking mechanism of the safe so that any combination he wants will open it. Therefore, it can no longer be said that only one combination is capable of opening the safe. Now, there is a literally infinite number of combinations that can open it.

Restated in the form of the argument itself: The (apparent) fact that only a specific combination of values of physical constants allows life to arise is, itself, an expression of a fundamental law of the universe. If God can change the values of those physical constants, there is no reason to believe he cannot also change the more fundamental laws that limit the conditions under which life will arise.

This has two fatal consequences for the "fine tuning" argument:

1) If God can, in fact, adjust the "combination" of the safe to any values he wants, this completely refutes the claim that life can only arise under a very specific set of circumstances. Rather, if such a God exists, life should be able to arise under any set of circumstances whatsoever, with infinite possibilities. The "fine tuning" argument, therefore, can no longer be used as evidence for the existence of such a God.

2) If, on the other hand, God cannot adjust the "combination", then this raises a situation that most theists would find unacceptable. It raises the question of who or what actually is responsible for creating the safe, and deciding on its combination. God, in this scenario, is reduced to being a low-level employee of the bank, who is able to open the safe, but is not responsible for the operation of the safe itself, nor entrusted with the ability to set the combination of the safe. Those responsibilities must be taken over by some entity more powerful and important than God. This is incompatible with most theistic beliefs, particularly the Abrahamic monotheistic ones.

To restate the argument, in the form of the [[Transcendental argument for the non-existence of God]] :

Posit X and Y as features of human understanding. In the case of fine-tuning, X is "the combination of physical constants which is necessarily capable of sustaining life" and Y is "the combination of physical constants which is necessarily incapable of sustaining life".

1.X is necessary or has a necessary part (the necessity of being capable of sustaining life).

Y is necessary or has a necessary part (the physical necessity of being hostile to life).

2.If theism is true, then divine creation obtains.

3.If divine creation is true, then all in the universe is contingent to God’s act of creation, and nothing in the universe is necessary.

4.If theism is true, then no X or Y can be necessary or have a necessary part. (from 2 and 3)

5.Theism is false. (from 1 and 4)

The theist can of course deny premise 1, but doing so is a denial of the fine-tuning argument. The first premise of this argument is the same as the first premise of the fine-tuning argument.

The first premise of the fine-tuning argument is:

1. "The combination of physical constants that we observe in our universe is the only one capable of sustaining life as we know it".

This means that:

The combination of physical constants in our universe -> necessarily capable of sustaining life as we know it (denoted by X).

And

The combination of other physical constants -> necessarily incapable of sustaining life as we know it (denoted by Y).

In a similar form of the argument:

1. If theism is true, then divine causation obtains.

2. If divine causation obtains, then all facts of the universe are contingent upon God's act of creation.

3. If theism is true, then life can arise under any possible physical condition. (from 1 and 2)

4. If theism is true, then fine-tuning is invalid. (from 3)

Maybe the transition from premise 2 to 3 requires further justification. Denote the physical constants by {X; Y; Z) and the obtainment of life by L and negation by ~.

A fact of the universe is that {X--> L; Y--> ~L; Z--> ~L}.

Since the fact is contingent upon God's act of creation, then it is not necessary and so can be altered.

If it can be altered then the following can be true {X--> L; Y--> L; Z--> L}. Basically, X, Y, and Z are irrelevant to God if divine causation obtains.

So as a shorthand one can say that “contingency implies the impossibility of principles and absolutes”.

One can of course deny that divine creation obtains, and deny that God created the laws of science. However, this means that God is not the Creator and that he is subject to these laws himself.

Stephen Hawking on the Anthropic Principle:

"The intelligent beings in these regions should therefore not be surprised if they observe that their locality in the universe satisfies the conditions that are necessary for their existence. It is a bit like a rich person living in a wealthy neighborhood not seeing any poverty."

"What I have done is to show that it is possible for the way the universe began to be determined by the laws of science. In that case, it would not be necessary to appeal to God to decide how the universe began. This doesn't prove that there is no God, only that God is not necessary". [Stephen W. Hawking, Der Spiegel, 1989]

"One does not have to appeal to God to set the initial conditions for the creation of the universe, but if one does He would have to act through the laws of physics". [Stephen Hawking, Black Holes & Baby Universes]

Retrieved from "http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=A_Brief_History_of_Time"

The features of humanity have evolved as a result of our environment, rather than our environment being tailored to suit us.

Douglas Adams c.1998:

"Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!' This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it's still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise. I think this may be something we need to be on the watch out for."

Furthermore, the "fine-tuning argument" is a logical fallacy of the "ex-post-facto statistics" type. It applies in situations like this whenever we apply probability laws to past events.

For example, we all know the probability of being dealt a bridge hand of, say, all thirteen spades is quite small. But if we look at any bridge hand after we're dealt it, the probabilities of being dealt that exact hand are just as minuscule.

Given, hypothetically, an array of 52 different universes, the probability of actualizing our universe is 1 in 52. But if we look at any universe after it has been actualized, the probability of that occurring is just as minuscule.

-Life is just one of the possible things that may arise in the universe, and by itself is no more or less important than any of those other things. It's just that, as living beings ourselves, we tend to place a higher value on life than other aspects of the universe.

-We cannot assume that life as we know it is the only possible form that life could take. If the constants of the universe were different, that does not rule out the possibility that intelligent life could nonetheless still arise, albeit in a form currently unimaginable to us.

-It is foolish to say the universe is exquisitely set for the existence of life, since any living thing would instantly die in almost any place in the observed universe.

-The fine-tuning argument is an argument from design, so we can rightly ask, "who designed the designer?". The argument opens itself up for eternal regress. If god designed the universe to support life, this means that god itself has features that lead to the creation of life. The same argument therefore applies to the higher level - it follows that God was created in order to create life. And this God-creator was itself designed to create life, and so on and so forth.

- The argument presupposes that there is a certain range of possible values the constants can take. We don't know whether this is true, we have no idea what values the constants can take or if they can take other values at all.

-The argument presupposes that there is no natural process of creating universes, or that if there is it isn't going to create a universe with our values of the constants. This is, again, just not something we know scientifically. There still isn't a well established scientific theory on how universes are naturally created, so we cannot say that it is unlikely for our universe to have been created naturally (indeed, many of the current hypotheses indicate that our universe was created naturally; but they are not yet proved). Nor are we in the situation where science has established that there is no natural way for a universe to be created. We just don't know enough about universes for this presupposition to be accepted.

In this respect, this is an argument from ignorance. Saying that it is impossible for our universe to have been created naturally in this way is just like saying that the ordered shape of the hexagonal basalt columns of the Giant's Causeway could not have been created naturally. That is, of course, false. One can understand that the basalt columns are natural when one understand enough about how basalt is created and formed naturally. One cannot rule out a natural explanation until one has an understanding of the subject matter's natural behavior. Similarly, since we don't know how universes are created we just don't know enough to determine that the values of the constants in our universe are indicative of an unnatural process.

-The argument is too quick to assert that other values will not result in life. We haven't explored all the various possibilities thoroughly enough to make such a pronouncement. We know slight variations will produce radically different physics, but we're far from knowing that no other constellation of constants will produce complex structures or how common or naturally likely to occur are such combinations. These are two separate issues that should not be confused. Indeed, it is possible that there are values that are more supportive of life, with life more pervasive throughout the spacetime of the universe.

-The argument implicitly assumes that it is possible for a universe to be artificially created with a certain choice of values. While this might sound plausible, it is not necessary. Certain theories on universe-creation, for example, posit that the values are determined randomly due to symmetry breaking, so that there is no way for their creator or the process that creates them to determine these values in advance.

-Another problem is that the anthropic principle holds regardless of fine-tuning. Even if it would take fine-tuning not to support life, the fact that we live in a world that supports life is still not apparently necessary. God still chose just those constants that support life - he just had more choices. This raises the Argument from Contingency, the questions of why things are the way they are, but the evidential fine tuning of things becomes irrelevant.

-Another reply could be that we cannot talk about there being lots of different possible causes, and the probability of the cause being the right one, because we have no way to know how to construct the reference class - the set of possibilities. This would be an absurd double standard. Remember, it was the theists who wanted to get into the probability business in the first place, and to stop playing when it is inconvenient is just hypocrisy. In the absence of any better way of constructing a reference class of possible causes we actually have an excellent reference class to use: Advocates of the fine tuning argument obviously have a reference class of "possible universes" in mind and we can simply use this, and assume that each of these possible universes has an individual possible cause. This, of course, leads us with as many causes as there are possible universes, and if advocates of fine tuning think that most universes are inhospitable to life then they must be claiming that most causes of universes are inhospitable to life. The only way round this is to claim that the reference class of causes is not constructed like that, but the this involves taking a preferential position with no justification: They are wanting to assume that all universes are equally possible, but not that all the causes of these universes are equally possible and they are just adjusting their reference class of causes to fit the answer they want. Furthermore, even if it turned out that the cause of our universe was somehow more likely than the causes of the other universes, this does not imply a designer: By adjusting the reference class like this to get round the problem, unless you can show that your adjustment follows from the cause being a designer, youa re actually admitting that there is no fine tuning problem, that the cause of the universe, for some reason, was more likely than all the other causes that might have occurred. If you lack any sound basis for this, you may as well just apply logic like that to the universe itself anyway.

Also, to quickly spot the inadequacy of the fine-tuning argument, see the following videos on Youtube:

Is the Universe Fine Tuned for Life? [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCKqj-2JXZg]

William Lane Craig 2 - Craig Harder (Refuting WLC's Proofs For God, Part II)
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aixbI7qKNlg&feature=PlayList&p=E5D80EB3D7BAFD74&playnext_from=PL&index=0&playnext=1]

And to read an article which handily refutes the theistic anthropic principle, see [http://www.positiveatheism.org/faq/anthropic.htm]

== Affirming the consequent ==

The Fine Tuning argument presupposes that the phenomenon of life and it being ''presumably'' only possible in a universe with physical constants exactly like the ones in ours is what qualifies this as special or sublime, however, this is based entirely on nothing other than the entities that determine what qualifies this universe as special or sublime are living (humans). This is an [[affirming the consequent]] fallacy. It could also be seen as a [[confirmation bias]] fallacy. In a hypothetical universe with different physical constants, there may be an emergent natural phenomenon that is vastly more complex than the emergence of life, the evolution of life, and the ecology of life. This phenomenon, we will label "phenomenon x", would be impossible in our universe because our physical constants may not permit phenomenon x to occur. There is no objective reason why the possibility of life demands a fine tuner more than phenomenon x. There is also no objective reason why any natural phenomenon, no matter the complexity, should demand a fine tuner any more than another. Hypothetically, if it were shown that life of some kind is possible in most possible universes, but the phenomenon of lightning is only possible in this one, then an apologist might assert that because we occupy the only possible universe with lightning, this universe must have been finely tuned.

A reductio ad absurdum can be constructed to demonstrate the weakness of the argument. If life is improbable then the existence of spaghetti is even more improbable.

1. The combination of physical constants that we observe in our universe is the only one capable of sustaining spaghetti as we know it.

2. Other combinations of physical constants are conceivable.

3. Therefore, some explanation is needed why our actual combination of physical constants exists rather than a different one.

4. The very best explanation of the given fact is that our universe, with the particular combination of physical constants that it has, was created out of nothing by a single being who is omnipotent, omniscient, and interested in spaghetti, and that he “fine-tuned” those constants in a way which would lead to the evolution of such foods.

5. But such a being as described in (4) is what is meant by the "Flying Spaghetti Monster".

6. Hence [from (4) & (5)], there is good evidence that the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" exists.

== Other Counter-Arguments ==

Important links that address the fine-tuning argument extensively:

StrongAtheism.net
[http://www.strongatheism.net/library/against/problems_of_fine_tuning/]

[http://phrenicphilosophy.blogspot.com/2009/07/refuting-fine-tuning-cosmological.html Refuting fine-tuning]
== Links ==
=== See also ===
*[[Anthropic principle]]
*[[Habitable zone]]

=== External links ===
* [http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni.html Cosmology 101] at NASA's Wilkinson Microwave Anisortopy Probe website — This is an outstanding resource for understanding cosmological theory.
* ''[http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=12282 Fine-Tuned Deception: Say hello to the new stealth creationism]'' by [[Sahotra Sarkar]] (in ''The American Prospect'' magazine)
*[http://www.strongatheism.net/library/counter_apologetics/swinburnes_teleological_arguments/ Amazed by Necessary Facts : Swinburne's Teleological Arguments] by [[Francois Tremblay]]
*[http://www.strongatheism.net/library/against/problems_of_fine_tuning/ The Many Problems of the Fine-Tuning Argument] by [[Francois Tremblay]]
*[http://edthemanicstreetpreacher.wordpress.com/2010/02/11/refuting-craig-five-arguments/ Videos refuting William Lane Craig's five ''proofs'' for God] from ''Ed the Manic Street Preacher''
*[http://www.positiveatheism.org/faq/anthropic.htm Theistic Anthropic Principle Refuted / A Survey of Arguments Against the Theistic Anthropic Principle] by Victor Gijsbers for ''Positive Atheism Magazine''
*[http://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2010/05/why-the-universe-is-perfectly-set-up-for-life-is-a-terrible-argument-for-god.html Why "The Universe Is Perfectly Fine-Tuned For Life" Is a Terrible Argument for God] by [[Greta Christina]]

{{Arguments for god}}

[[Category:Arguments]]
[[Category:Arguments for the existence of God]]
[[Category:Cosmological arguments]]

User:Tatarize

2012-01-12T20:43:55Z

Tatarize:

"'Jesus lived a long, healthy and happy life and passed away peacefully in his sleep for your sins' doesn't have the same ring to it..." -RevDave

"(It's called a bombing "campaign") Because there are a number of bombings over an extended period of time, presumably intended to change public opinion for a political end. It's like an election campaign, but by more humane means." -RH3

"(shrug) I just don't understand all this arguing about what color, mass and composition of the elephant's dandruff is when there's NO FREAKING ELEPHANT." -chip

"[Bush] is a living example of the Confucian principle that there cannot be moral order when there is intellectual disorder." -RH3

"[Faith is a sin] Because it is an attack against one's own self. One defies and defiles one's ability to comprehend the world in favor of maintaining a particular belief. Faith is molesting one's own mind in order to accept the products of someone else's mind." -AtheistKeith

"A deity who wanted to be believed in would try to either make itself intelligible or improve our powers of understanding until we were capable of proving it. If it cannot do either, it is perhaps not a deity worthy of our attention." -RH3

"A devout agnostic is one who gets down on her knees and shrugs three times a day." -mrbehemoth

"A good Christian should always strive to emulate Christ. I do my best to help, but I'm having trouble finding sufficient quantities of lumber". -MrBehemoth

"A lot of people are reluctant to call themselves atheists because they fear it has a stigma of arrogance or carries with it a claim of certainty that they do not feel. I am not interested in denying reality to satisfy prejudices; I prefer to shout the truth and attempt to de-stigmatise it." -mrbehemoth

"A person ought to be scared, very scared, of any frame of thought that says evidence is irrelevant." -DougofCal

"A rude person might suggest that there are no factual errors in the Bible because it contains no facts. Naturally, I wouldn't say any such thing." -RH3

"A social occasion is hardly the place to make a bold statement of disbelief. I would rather bow my head and close my eyes for grace and be thought courteous, if hypocritcal, than to make a point of not doing so and be thought a lout, but an honest lout." -Prismatic

"According to many religions, gay sex and gay relationships are immoral, yet banning them doesn't seem to yield any net positive result for the religious people who defined them as immoral." -Keepwe

"Actually ALL faith is nothing more than a blind leap. It's not built upon knowledge; it's an attempt to leap over the areas that logic prevents you from traversing; faith is the circumvention of logic." -chip

"Actually, I don't think it has that much to do with intelligence. More with education. Many atheists are former believers. They didn't get smarter, they got less ignorant." -Icky

"After you've extricated what you like from Christianity, and dismissed or superficially rationalized away what you don't like from Christianity, why call your derived religion Christian? The negative connotations of the term do your religion a disservice." -eljay

"Ah, spite. Is there anything it can't do?" -Jedi Ducky

"Ah, You must be a christian: You can't write, you can't think, and you don't know when to shut up. :)" -chip

"Aha, the well-known and universally feared argumentum ad taedium Â— the appeal to pique. You won't continue the discussion unless we stop annoying you with logic." -Prismatic

"Alas, the obvious does not take root in the minds of the oblivious." -AtheistKeith

"Alas, the virtual lacks the redeeming virtue of realityÂ—it may be unpleasant, but it is." -Prismatic

"All in all, I don't think it matters a lot what the ultimate source of "our morality" is. I do think that for society to function smoothly and fairly it should be at least conditionally accepted that we humans are the source of their legitimacy." -Citizen12

"All in all, I find that I have no use or need for religion. I merely try to spend my days enjoyably, help my fellow man when I can, and hope to live to a ripe old age before the darkness comes again." -J.Dean

"All medicines have their side effects and these can include unleashing the forces of darkness upon an unsuspecting world. But nevertheless, I think you ought to see your doctor about a prescription." -Mo

"All the superstitious drivel I was addicted to like gods, pyramid power, ESP, astrology, and the list goes on, just cheapens existence. How much more fantastic is the world revealed by science than the one explained by some tales of magic." -Flux

"All too often our leaders don't represent the majority of the people they govern and, sadly, all too often they do." -Rev.Conor

"American Christians often fail to realize that their political and social opinions may be more shaped by their American culture than by their Christianity." -AR Cline

"Amongst the greatest absurdities that consume mankind is governance by divine decree. That form of control is a pox on truth and plague on reason. When it doesn't destroy hope, it ruins inspiration." - Reshuffle

"And his sin was gaining knowledge of good and evil. You know, morals? That thing you claim atheists don't have? So if we have no knowledge of good and evil, we atheists are without Original Sin. So we don't need your preaching. We're pure! You're the sinner! Go away." -Mrreindeer

"And if you are going to drive over a bridge would you rather drive over one which was designed according to tested engineering principles or one which was designed according to faith in god's ability to "bear you up"? Faith without evidence is immoral because it is criminally negligent." -gclason

"And the lesson we should all take away from these incidents is: Nature is always trying to kill us, especially those with psychological issues and intellectual challenges." -MrReindeer

"And to bring it back to Asimov's point, it actually works against the notion of a Christian god. After a close read of the Bible, an unbiased and impartial response would be, 'And I'm supposed to believe that?'" -Tayana42

"And when I noticed that they were advertising toilet paper as containing vitamin E, after a few minutes breathing into a paper bag, I came to the conclusion that perhaps the Unabomber had a point." -Fluffy666

"And you also well know that non-believers can care very deeply about religion just as a person with no interest in baseball can care very deeply about a person beating him with a baseball bat." -Icky

"And, by the way, I haven't "chosen to ignore" the one who leads you... I believe it (Jesus, your god, whoever it is you follow) never existed. If I had to bother ignoring everything that does not, and has never existed, I'd be too damn busy to do anything else." -logicalsoul

"Any being that wipes out a large portion of the human population is an enemy of humankind, and anyone who bows to It is a traitor of the worst kind." -DarkAngel

"Any brain that believes in intelligent design is evidence of the failure of the hypothesis." -Mo

"Any knowledge or lack of same about gods feeds into my agnosticism. A sufficient amount of knowledge wouldn't change my atheism into theism, it'd render the whole concept of atheism (and theism) meaningless." - RevDave

"Any positives claimed for religions are simply due to the limits that religion has placed on people's ability to conceive of and embrace realistic approaches to accomplish the same things." -lahatte

"Anyone remember The Professionals? Late 70s/early 80s, Lewis Collins and Martin Shaw as Bodie and Doyle, some sort of special branch of the police, fighting terrorists and the like? Every so often I have to remind myself I'm watching the news." -RevDave

"Anyone who asks such a question could not possibly understand the answer." -DougofCal

"Apparently it's necessary to remind you that you've already demonstrated to me that you are not worth the miniscule effort it takes to rebut your pointless statements." -chip

"Are atheists smarter? I'm not sure, but I DO know that the black ones have better rhythm, the Hispanic ones have more kids, and the Asian ones are better at Math." -Crosshatch

"Are you a former drug abuser? If so, would I be correct in attributing your apparent inability to engage in critical thinking to drug-related brain damage?" -Elmeraho

"As a surmise, is your voice contralto? I happen to have gathered some negative stereotypes from various soprani of my acquaintance concerning contralti (of which imputed maleness is unfortunately one.)" -Mick(Canaris1)

"As an ex-Republican and ex-theist, I can, when pressed, justify virtually any belief or statement of mine, while denigrating anything that contradicts me, as long as we don't make reality too much of an issue." -FrankDK

"As for people who don't want to hear "Darwin" or "evolution", Well, boohoo, tough luck. When I'm sitting in a plane I don't wanna hear "Newton" or "gravity" either, but that doesn't make me think that the laws of gravity can be ignored. Reality is what it is, not what you think it should be." -Seeker

"As noted, some of us prefer to try to understand and recognize reality as opposed to escaping it. Regardless, if you're going to define 'a crutch' as anything which makes life easier or helps get one through life, then you're going to have to include love, companionship, food, shelter - damn near everything - as a 'crutch'." -chip

"As the Bushes climbed aboard the helicopter, I thought of what Peter Lorre said to Vincent Price at the funeral of Bela Lugosi, famous for his vampire roles: 'Do you think we should drive a stake through his heart, just in case?'" -Prismatic

"As usual, Coulter is talking out of her adam's apple. Although I must say I do find her strangely sexy, in a liberated concentration camp sort of way." -Icky

"At this age it becomes a crap shoot. You may be lucky or not. You can shift odds a bit in your favor with good habits, but that is all you can do. You have to live on the edge while you watch others slipping over it. " -Prismatic

"Atheism goes hand in hand with communism. Therefore, all atheists are left-wing. The existence of god is perfectly obvious to any reasonable person. Therefore all atheists are insane. People become atheists only because they hate God. Therefore all atheists are hate-filled. So no, there are no atheists who are not hate-filled left-wing wackos." -mrbehemoth

"Atheism isn't something you argue against. If there's no God, there's no God. Either provide evidence or realize that we're perfectly reasonable saying that the evidence for God is on par with the evidence for werewolves. Unless you're going to ask that we have faith in werewolves, there's nothing left." -Tatarize

"Atheism requires as much faith as believing that the sun will rise tomorrow. Theism requires as much faith as believing that there are elves in my pants. Hope that helps." -Psykomakia

"Atheists are sexy. We make our own heaven." -Saint Bengel

"Atheists have imaginations too. They just don't misinterpret emotional feelings as communication with a god." -lahatte

"Atheists often claim to know the bible better than theists, and some of us who came out of the dungeons of christ do know it better; however, every atheist who wants to discredit the bible has to know what the literature is and why it is nonsense. This collection of literature is the guiding "light" for millions of people who vote and create policy for all of us." -apostateofthelord

"Athests are not annoyed, we're just foresaken." -ptcarnahan

"Auto labeling forum bot 2000 Gold edition: This post has been given the following labels: Rambling, wrong, run on paragraphs, hard to read, waste of time, silly. Please rate the above labels to further increase the correctness of the Auto Labeling Forum Bot 2000, Gold edition." -MaxHarper

"Bad evidence, such as referring to known hoaxes, is not very compelling evidence. You may want to take steps to compensate for your confirmation bias, your gullibility, and your undue credulity." -Eljay

"Bah. Christians. Who needs insults and swearwords when you have such an insulting word as "Christian". -Grahor

"Basing your own purpose on the purposes (or lack thereof) of the universe is a poor fit and will be unfulfilling. Especially considering that you do not know the purpose(s) of the universe, or even if it has a purpose." -Eljay

"Bathroom walls were sort of like primitive internet forums." -Letxbex

"Because I want to feel I am worthy of love, and if someone is going to love me no matter what I do or what sort of person I am, there's no point in being worthy of it." -mrbehemoth

"Because the human race is the most important thing in the universe and we're vital to God's plans, so therefore he had to create everything so we had things to study and wonder about and realize it couldn't have happened without God creating it and by doing so we'd fulfill God's plan and be closer to God and God would be happy and we'd all have ice cream and cake. And like that." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"Being a skeptic in a group of believers is like being a designated driver." -NOGODHERE

"Believing your own delusions is not freedom. Just thought you should know that." -Goldblock

"Besides the things I would like from everyoneÂ—kindness, courtesy, tolerance, and helpfulnessÂ—I would like Christians to recognize my freedom of conscience. Too often their first reaction to learning one is an atheist is to start missionary work. " -Prismatic

"Best argument for atheism: the lack of argument for theism." -RationalSerenity

"Bigots always have an explanation for why their position really isn't bigotry. "God said so" is very popular. They're still bigots, and if their god said so, then he's a bigot too." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"Black and white, yep that describes atheists in general on one point. No God! After that color creeps into everything." -dlove5duke

"Blatant Sarcasm Police? Well, they won't have much to do around here..." -KateHost

"Boy, if I had a nickel for every time I've read this . . . well, I'd just have a nickel. You have reached a new high in incomprehensibility." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"BTW, we are born equal and we all go back to being equal 6 feet under. Some of us take the time in between to elevate ourselves, and others prefer to remain mired in mindless superstitions." -DarkAngel

"But every foot has to be fought for tooth and nail. We have to pry women's rights from the arms of Deuteronomy. We have to fight a war to free ourselves from the slave codes of Holy Writ. We have to fight for gay rights to seize them from Leviticus. And we have to oppose the anti-semitism of John. We need to battle for science against Genesis. We need to redeem history from Genesis to Kings. We need to defend ourselves from Revelation and Daniel." - Tatarize

"But just think about this: wouldn't a person who doesn't expect a reward at the end or fear eternal punishment and who acts ethically and with honesty and compassion, anyway, (a righteous atheist) be morally superior to a god-fearing ass-kisser?" -Crosshatch

"But later I'm gonna be a minister/engineer that's gonna challege all these theories and make evolution look stupid. Count on it." -hydro

"But look at it this way: it wouldn't be evidence of the supernatural, just evidence that what we thought was impossible, isn't. Like the invention of the aeroplane showing that the impossibility of heavier-than-air flight was not actually an impossibility. If magic existed, it wouldn't contradict any natural laws because it would be part of them. It would be another natural force like gravity." -mrbehemoth

"But we don't have to concern ourselves with gods a great deal as they don't seem to be around and they don't seem necessary to get through the day." -pgobrien

"But you are the nation which invented Vegemite, and no one can ever take that away from you lot, nor would they wish to." -Ibn Tumart

"But Â“You didnÂ’t have faithÂ” is leveled as an accusation. As if not believing everything one is told without requiring evidence were somehow a moral failing. It isnÂ’t. If anything, the reverse is true. It is symptomatic of a lack of interest in truth to be faced with evidence against a belief one holds and to ignore that evidence in order to hold onto the belief."-SusannahHB

"But, always remember, the Bible is mostly for condemning other people. Only a few select passages are to be applied to the Christians themselves." -AtheistKeith

"Can you at least TRY to put yourself in my shoes? Can you at least TRY to conjure up a smidgen of empathy, to understand how incredibly stupid and demanding of mockery this belief is?" - chip

"Catholic birth control teaching? Someone call the Kamikaze Pilot Crash Avoidance Training Centre, they're now second place in the absurdity stakes." - Rev.Dave

"Catholic wafers are the transubstantiated body of Christ. Protestant wafers are the demon seed of Satan. At least that's what I learned in Catholic Sunday school." -Eljay

"Children aren't any more prone to making up stories than adults. They are just not as good at it, so we think they are charming. When they get older, we call them liars. Or preachers." -Meow

"Christ is a fictional biblical character. The fictional character in a fable died. But no actual gods were harmed in the writing of that fable." -Eljay

"Christians ignore the fact that lukewarm adherents greatly outnumber the fervid ones; that adherents do not practice the tenets of their belief, and that the mainstream churches are all but dead now." -Prismatic

"Christians who come here, with a few exceptions, are generally bigoted idiots. I see you're not one of the exceptions." -Seth351

"Christmas is a secular holiday for me. It's all about food, family, gathering, Santa, and presents. Nothing about Christianity or Jesus. Axial tilt is the reason for the season." - Eljay

"Clearly there's a mindset among the ultra-religious of many religions that wants to tightly control the behavior of everybody else. Surely this is a form of mental illness, isn't it? The same sort that infects the Taliban and Mel Gibson?" -Freeksngeeks

"Common sense isn't very useful, really. First of all, it's basically saying "Well, it just makes sense, I don't need to use logic or such". Only those that can't support their arguments claim common sense." -MaxHarper

"Complaining that your right to infringe on other's rights is being infringed upon is laughable -- you have no such right, and your belief that you do is immaterial."-Flux

"Congratulations! You're not only arrogant and ill-informed but you're also a nutter. The holy hat-trick." -Fox(DavidFox)

"Consider the more likely scenario. Humans are not "worthless, dirty rags" at all. Instead, a religion developed that contrived a crisis just so it could get you to accept what it has to sell. Con artists use that tactic all the time to sell you something. They invent a problem, persuade you that you have that problem, and then make you believe that they - and only they - have the solution to the problem, so you better buy it before it is too late. That is all your religion is doing. It is emotionally abusing you, manipulating you into feeling ashamed, and then telling you that your only hope is to buy into their product." -AtheistKeith

"Courtesy? Courtesy is holding a door for someone. It's not catering to someone's silly little fantasy world." -Starriver6

"Cowboy Dubya. CHopper pilot Dubya. General Dubya. Churchy Dubya. Drooling idiot Dubya. Collect the whole set." -DeadWombat

"Currently there are at least 3 counties in Floriduh whose school boards have passed anti-evolution resolutions. That list could go up to 12 counties, if a statement by the superintendent of the Taylor county board is accurate. In other news, barbarians have just sacked Rome." -Rev.Martini

"Cynic: noun. Term used by fools to describe realists." -DarkAngel

"Damn, Charlton Heston is a bad actor. You forget how bad until the guy in the plastic monkey mask out-acts him." -DeadWombat

"Dear Santa: I would like for these believers to reach the bottom of the barrel and stop there, instead of digging further. Today would be great, sometime in my lifetime would do. Thanks in advance," -RevDave

"Death and destruction are the meat and potatoes for any good Christian meal. Especially when it comes in Biblical proportions." -meow

"Did you know that DDT has caused men to become homosexual?" -EKDaniel (Theist)

"Discrimination against women and gays, I think, is something many religions, including Catholicism, stand guilty of. And the people within those religions shouldn't get accepted as good and decent people just because they are sincere in the abhorrent views they hold." - mrbehemoth

"Do you think big, bold fonts make bullshit any less fecal?" -nganga2

"Do you have any idea of the close resemblance your posts bear to a poorly translated instruction manual for a Japanese clock radio?" -mrbehemoth

"Doesn't matter how fast you become cynical, you can never really keep up with as cynical as you need to be." -Tatarize

"Doesn't that sound noble and lofty? It's like a country song that makes people cry, but when you look at the words objectively, it's just a string of idiotic babbling." -apostateofthelord

"Don't be so lazy, and do your own research, as I suggested. I no longer try to spoon-feed the solid food of knowledge to creationists because they're simply not old enough to digest it." -Flux(55A)

"Don't never not let comprehensive writing in sentences make sense stop you! Because you writer. Not need check writing before posting. Just words that other people read, how dare they expect clear words in row without hiccups?!" -MrBunny2

"Doubt is not a weakness. Doubt is a strength because, without it, we can never find any truths. All we find is other peoples' dogma." -Mo

"Doubt seems to be very popular among Christians. But it's never 'we have doubts about God's existence, so how do we find out the truth?' It's always 'we have doubts about God's existence - given we already KNOW he exists, how do we deal with our doubts?'" - mrbehemoth

"Each proof you give, like the solar system, is eventually shown to be the work of natural forces, and soon it will take a herculean effort on the part of the faithful to ignore the fact that there's no reason to believe a God exists." -BillZBub

"Edited to add omitted preposition." -Seth351

"Every excuse for belief without evidence is equally invalid whether it comes from an illiterate half-wit or a well-spoken college graduate, and that should make the college graduate very uncomfortable." - TwshNB

"Every parent expects their kids to stop believing in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, etc.; but for so many parents those kids had better not dare question the existence of their deity. It's fine to think for yourself, but only within certain boundaries." -LogicalSoul

"Every time some religionist five crayons short of a box comes here, I learn something new from the more knowledgeable folks on the forum, so keep them whackadoos coming." -NonProphet

"Everybody disagreeing with me all of a sudden. And here I was starting to think this was just a godless 'yes' factory." -Tatarize

"Everybody knows we should not steal and rape and kill. Only an idiot needs a truckload of robes and scrolls and magic symbols and books attached." -Crosshatch

"Everyone has their blind spots and clings to things they shouldn't. But religion relies on that and so they are based on exploiting those failings at their fundamental level. Any system that bases itself on human failings rather than human successes is fundamentally a stupid system." -Tony

"EVERYONE uses the Lord's name "in vain" - no matter how much you say it, he just ain't there." -Meow

"Everyone, stop sucking." -DreamerRach

"Everything is amazing to idiots. I'm starting to quickly stop caring what folks think is God. That whole, "Just give me proof and I'll look at it" thing we atheists do is getting to be a large waste of time." -Tatarize

"Exactly how ignorant are you? Sorry, that's not fair to you, and I withdraw the question. Approximately how ignorant are you?" -RevDave

"Faith conquers truth, reason, hope, decency, kindness, compassion and morality. Next to it is ignorance, which conquers anything that escapes faith." -AtheistKeith

"Faith is a refusal to allow reality to interfere with the lies one tells onesself." -RH3

"Faith is curable. Get well soon." -AtheistKeith

"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to a great gig as a right-wing editorialist." -DarkAngel

"Final notes: There is no god. The president is a douche [Bush II]. Everybody dies. Everybody rots."-Tatarize

"Finding it difficult to accept that people really can believe such preposterous religious stories, I am nagged by the idea that somewhere, maybe buried deeply in their subconscious, there must be this little voice squeaking "bullshit! bullshit!". -C12

"First, it was Motor Trend's Car Executive of the Year. Now it's the Nobel Peace Prize. I'm going to use my psychic powers and predict Obama will next win the MVP Award for the 2009 World Series." -Gonzo

"For any future discussion, I'm going to make a pre-emptive negative claim against anyone that thinks that my future thoughts and opinions are flawed. I said it first, so you are screwed, buddy." - DaBlue357

"For being a bunch of prudes, Christians breed like rabbits. And I swear it doesn't seem possible but there's only so much intellect between them and it gets thinner and thinner." - Tatarize

"For some reason, terrifying the British seems difficult. A lot of attempts have been made over the last hundred years or so, but Margaret Thatcher is the only one who succeeded." -RH3

"Forgive me. I need to do penance for all of the things I just thought of that I would like to do for penance." Abbeynormal

"Frankly, I think someone should evacuate the entire "holy land" and give it over to Disney to turn into a theme park -- perhaps something with a marsupial motif." -AtheistKeith

"Frankly, it's kinda sad to see such an intelligent, normally reasonable fellow's cognitive facilities brought so low by his subserviance to a religious meme, but it DOES help to illustrate the perniciousness of such memes, and I suppose for that I must thank you."-chip

"From my lengthy and involved experience with the christians, they actually don't read their bibles as much as they might claim. They do skip over the boring bits. They scratch their heads at the illogical bits. They ask their pastors to explain the unreasonable bits. Then the pastor will proclaim the doctrine that "explains" it all, and everybody goes home happy that all's well with the bible once again." -apostateofthelord

"From time to time I think about what I want to do with my life, and then I concentrate on doing those things. Sitting around complaining about how it sucks to have a serious illness isn't on my list. Nor is thinking about how lucky I am to be alive today on my list." Ericwoof

"Fundamentalists hang onto their beliefs by being steadfast to the whole Bible. Moderates hang on to theirs by reinventing it. I don't know who's beliefs I respect less." -Tayana42

"Fundingo is no fun if you have to keep crossing off the same square." -Saint Bengel

"Funny that people think that the emotions of bronze age men should be what runs the world." -Popsy

"Given the fact that they had thousands of years in which most people were totally illiterate in order to get their darn story straight and get down a book that wasn't riddled with errors and plotholes, I'm not impressed." -Aino

"God allows evil to prevent more evil. You see, it's a trade off that an all-powerful god doesn't really have to make." Tatarize

"God created a pot that he KNEW - BEFORE he created it - was going to put a hole in itself. This is the pot's fault. God will now punish the pot unless the pot kisses God's ass. THAT is an accurate summation of Xianity." -chip

"God creates evil, and that is fair? God tempts Adam and Eve who don't know good from evil, and that is fair? God murders and tells his followers to murder, and that is fair? The only thing that keeps your god from being an absolute monster is the fact that it doesn't exist." -FrankDK

"God died for YOUR sins?? Wow, do all the other xians know that God's dead? I bet they'll be pissed off at YOU." -chip

"God doesn't want to be our bitch. He wants us to love him and find rewards in his love, not use him when we need money or a new car." -knud87

"God is the greatest abortionist of all since 80% of pregnancies are miscarried. Add in the number of pregnancies that result in fundamentalist Christians and you can see how very few conceptions end up with a functioning human being at all." -mrbehemoth

"God is unnecessary for cruelty. It helps, of course, but it is not necessary." -Grahor

"God must be a television writer. Rather than making something original, he simply recycled an old script and changed a few lines." -Flux

"God so loved the world he gave [murdered] his only begotten son. I'm glad my parents don't love me that much." -Eljay

"God's momma is so fat, when she farts the universe is destroyed and reborn." -lahatte

"God, being entirely fictional, is a blank canvas upon which believers can paint whatever image pleases them. All are equally valid, which is to say not at all." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"Good - sometimes people need a metaphorical smack upside the head. Sacred cows need kicking, and I, for one, am proud to be in the boot-fcuking brigade." -Flux

"Good atheists and good theists give time and money to make the world a better place. The only difference is that some of the theists also spend time praying about it. Then there are those theists that only pray. I wouldn't call them good." -benmcd

"Has it occurred to any of you that the very people who tell you abstinence is 100% effective are the only people in the world who don't really believe that?" -Tatarize

"Hateful people believe in a hateful God, loving people believe in a loving God, and so on. It's about what should be expected if all gods are figments of people's imaginations." -DougOfCal

"Have you ever entertained the idea that some people have not sought evidence for God because they find that everything they have casually heard about God is exceedingly preposterous?" -Citizen12

"He reminds me of a ratty, semi-deflated soccer ball... Fun to kick around for a while, but ultimately unsatisfying." -Ozy666

"Heaven is wishful thinking combined with the conceit that one is too important to cease to exist." -groovyspaceman

"Heck, if I perceive that the Emperor has no clothes and I say so, it doesn't make me angry and rebellious, it just makes me...right. :-D" -J.Dean

"Here's one I haven't been able to work into a discussion yet: "Whether they come from Red states or Blue states is immaterial. All creationists are in the State of Denial." -Seeker

"Here's your daily reminder that you have failed yet again to substantiate ANY of your claims made in this thread - you merely reiterate and repeat your assertions without ANY support whatsoever. Your pockets are empty; your hands wave feebly in the air, trying to distract your audience with pitifully inadequate attempts at sleight-of-hand. You're like the proverbial naked Emperor, strutting and preening through the streets while the people point and laugh at you." -chip

"Hey, I have two more cases of metastatic cancer and one more thing of pancreatic cancer. I actually like my odds." -Tatarize

"Hey, I trust in God... to always give justification to those that need divine excuses." -MaxHarper

"His arguments are so preposterously bad that I would not be surprised if they become living entities and come to knock him on the head." -Anduin

"Hmm... come to think of it, maybe that is why they have to use the adjective "Christian", in "Christian love", "Christian charity", "Christian kindness": because they don't amount to what any objective observer would call "love", "charity", or "kindness"." -AtheistKeith

"Hooza cwever wittle twoll? Hoozee, den? You are! Yes, you are!" -Flux

"How about a 30-year-old energetic Black Pope? I think a lot of people are tired of being told how to run their lives by old, old, white men." -AndrewF4

"How can a "movement" have no goal? It cannot. And what is the goal of atheism? Sleeping in on Saturdays and Sundays and saving your knees for gardening?" -Mo

"How could anything irrational be truly moral? Without a logical basis there can't be any right or wrong, good or evil." -gclason

"How profound. So we should believe in Christianity because, even though we have no idea what it means, we can be vaguely certain that it means something?" -Mrbehemoth

"However, if we were to take the story of the serpant in the garden literally, we would find that the serpant was actually man's carnal mind." - Ginger09 (Christian)

"Humans don't have a "god-shaped void". Humans have a void that seeks knowledge. You have invented a void-shaped god and you no longer desire to seek knowledge." -lahatte

"I almost referred to my wife as 'mom' once. That I can still type is evidence of my ability to quickly swallow words before they come out." -Saint Bengel

"I always get drunk and lie around naked in my tent after I build a 450-foot boat and put two of every animal on the planet in it and then float around for five months" -Seth

"I always thought internet females were really 40 year old fat dudes that chain smoke and need a back wax." -Gakuct

"I am always amazed - foolishly, I think - when Christians come up with this "explanation" for a former Christian turning to non-belief. The whole process of holding to a position - any position - and then abandoning that position when presented with evidence to the contrary seems to entirely escape them. No, it can only be because you never really held that position in the first place." -Rdalin

"I am always both baffled by and suspicious of people who are not raised from infancy into insane beliefs, but assume them as mature and fully-functioning adult human beings." -mrbehemoth

"I am convinced that atheists and other free thinkers are not aware of the power of persuasion resident in a pulpit. We should not simply deride preachers as bizarre; they are powerful enemies of truth and rational thinking." -apostateofthelord

"I am currently reading about my tenth book in as many years on quantum physics for the layman. One day I hope to be able to explain to someone why nobody understands it, but first I have to misunderstand it properly myself." - David Fox

"I am not so impressed with myself that I should think myself to be so awesome that only a god could have made me. The flawed processes of nature are up to the challenge of making a flawed being such as me. For thinking this, Christians call me arrogant." -AtheistKeith

"I am the night. Kind of like Batman, only with more astronomy homework." -Jedi Ducky

"I became a vociferous atheist about 10 seconds after I was told what religion was, and about eight seconds after I laughed." -Tatarize

"I believe Billy Graham is financing a new documentary series on famous atheists entitled "Atheists: Homicidal Satanists or Drug-addicted Paedophiles?" So it'll be looking at the issue from both sides." -mrbehemoth

"I believe Christianity is ridiculous and not to be taken seriously, but that has nothing to do with atheism." - RDalin

"I believe facts are an important part of discussion. You either have accurate facts, or not much of anything else. Checking facts is a good place to start an examination of any idea or belief." -Tayana42

"I belong to a non-conformist sub-culture. Of course, so do you. It's so non-conformist you don't even have to join it to be a member." -mrbehemoth

"I bet you didn't know you could use your old wire hangers to dry your octopuses." -SnoopyLucy

"I came to realize that an appeal to faith could be used to justify anything at all. But, whatever can justify anything, actually justifies nothing. If you appeal to faith, you might as well say that you believe whatever you feel like believing. There is no difference." -DougofCal

"I can count the number of times I've doubted gravity on one hand... even if I worked in a wood shop and lost all my fingers." -Tatarize

"I can respect people's right to hold ridiculous beliefs. But respecting the beliefs? Absolutely not. I merely tolerate them, and in the interests of social grease, I try to keep my utter disrespect quiet." -Mo

"I can respect the beliefs of an individual who believes in god because of the beauty and complexity of the universe and yet makes no pretenses to know what or who god is (as Christians do). Any other beliefs regarding god I cannot respect". -jellomold2

"I can't answer for Chip, but name-calling always makes ME feel like a big man. Wanker." -mrbehemoth

"I can't even imagine some guy in the sky keeping track of everything I ever do in my life just to see if I'm good enough to hang out with him after I'm dead." -Teen meow (age 13)

"I can't even stand to go there. The only thing more annoying than the stupid things they post is the stupid things they must be thinking that they don't post." -dlove5duke

"I can't remember, are Mennonites the ones who hang down from the ceiling, or grow up from the floor?" -DeadWombat

"I cannot believe in a god that will not hold me responsible for my own sins, but that will hold me responsible for the sins of others." -Anduin

"I cannot tell whether it is real or parody. Just as any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, so is any sufficiently abysmal ignorance indistinguishable from "conservative" Christianity." -AtheistKeith

"I choose my enemies (and overall people I'm being an ass toward) with care, so that I could proudly say "never I conformed silently with the likes of them, their doings, ideas and ideals, but was an unrelenting ass toward them, and did all I could to improve the universe". -Grahor

"I considered a life of prostitution, but you know what they say: 'you can't sell what you can't give away'." - FrankDK

"I could have worded the speech so it could be read in about 3 seconds: "The Theory of Evolution is a scientific theory that pisses off fundamentalist Christians." -Citizen12

"I deal with death through the grieving process. I do not hold any sort of notion that the person exists as a spirit, or ghost, or shade. My memories of the person are not the person. Just as footprints in the sand are not the person who made the footprints." -Eljay

"I demand extraordinary evidence for the extraordinary claim that there is a church with a "strong intellectual side". -mrbehemoth

"I do believe this nation is a great one, but I am not interested in calling down the ancient sky fathers of Mesopotamia to bolster our good fortune. The politican's right to believe in nonsense is balanced nicely by the voters' collective responsibility to elect rational agents into office." -CivilizeMe

"I do not now and have never acepted the proposition that suffering is enobling. Personally,I'd like to see the moron who came up with "no pain no gain" eaten alive by wild dogs." -TSShagnasty

"I do realise there is a segment of the population that does not believe that anyone whose career ended less than a hundred years ago can be considered a genuine artist, but I don't find it that compelling. Jackson was in a different category to Beethoven, but both were true artists, both had enormous cultural impact, and Jackson wrote better lyrics." -mrbehemoth

"I do shave my head frequently, which is, in a sense, a denial of my male-pattern baldness because I'm hoping people will think I'm eccentric rather than over the hill." -Mrreindeer

"I don't accept that faith is an acceptable means of acquiring information. I don't believe in gods or the supernatural. I do believe that humanity is the source of all that is good and evil in this world, and I believe in working to make this world a heaven for all people to enjoy, not just those who know the secret password." -JAlanBrown

"I don't believe in God in the least, as the word is generally applied, but sometimes I look at some of the more heinous crap that occurs from the hand of Man AND in the world of Nature, and think: there MUST be an evil, sadistic a-hole behind all this." -Crosshatch

"I don't care how valiantly Christians struggle to love me despite the fact that I'm gay, because I don't acknowledge their right to have a problem with it." -Keepwe

"I don't debate creationism with adults for the same reason that I don't debate the existence of the Easter Bunny with adults. Your refusal to accept reality is what needs to be discussed, rather than others acting like your refusing to accept reality means reality is dubious enough for adult debate." -AtheistKeith

"I don't dismiss the possibility. I do dismiss, on grounds of lack of justification, any assertion that it is unreasonable to doubt the existence of a supreme being. Doubt is not equivalent to dismissal." -DougofCal

"I don't get it. The story says the statue has only one breast exposed but I see two giant boobs in that photo... oh, never mind, one of them's Ashcroft." -Mrreindeer

"I don't get your point. Are you saying you're a bigot, but you like black people from Lesotho?" -Jen(ADMJenny)

"I don't know about anybody else, but when I want to ward off something, I always use my personality." -benmcd

"I don't know about you, but I don't feel comfortable allowing the government to decide what kinds of indoctrination are harmful in a world where atheists are considered among the most immoral people in existence." -Rillion

"I don't know that nature "feels" anything. I just think if some insist on finding a reason in nature for homosexuality to exist, then that is one possible explanation. Of course, homosexuality is probably also nature's way of making the world more fabulous." -Boverbearing

"I don't know which is worse, postmodernism or Christian fundamentalism. They both have pretty nasty consequences for the intellect." -DougofCal

"I don't let Bronze Age blood sacrificers do my thinking for me. They knew what G-d was thinking and saw fit to deputize themselves as "His" messengers, but flush toilets never occurred to them." Crosshatch

"I don't like Adventists. I would take ten Episcopalians over an Adventist. Second Advent indeed. End of the world my ass." - Tatarize

"I don't pretend to know something you don't know. I just accept reality a little differently" -ginger09 (theist)

"I don't see what difference it makes. Preaching is all about spouting bull$hit to the gullible anyway. What does it matter if the guy making a fool of you knows he is spouting BS or not? You are still the fool." -C12

"I don't think creationists are trying to prove their point. I think they're just trying to silence the opposition. It's not about what is right, it's about who is right." -Kato

"I don't think it should be mandatory. I think enough completely ignorant people vote already, without legally requiring them to do so." -Rillion

"I don't think there's even a shred of doubt that Saddam was considering initiating contemplation of thoughts of weapons-related program activity-associated discussions." -mrbehemoth

"I emailed the new Christianity-General moderator and asked to be gagged immediately just in case I post there by accident, because I had no desire to contribute anything to the site.. No reply yet." -DeadWombat

"I find atheists a lot more tolerant of ideas than most theists even if they don't agree with them. I have never been given a pamphlet on the street by an atheist. I have never had one ring my doorbell and harangue me about why I shouldn't believe whatever it is I believe." -nganga2

"I firmly believe that when a good HIV vaccine comes to market that there's going to be huge protests by the religious right." -Tatarize

"I found a neatly cut half of a sandwich in my couch cushions one time. The lettuce and pickles were all in place. I was living by myself at the time, and had no one to blame, but I couldnÂ’t remember ever missing part of a sandwich." - Tayana

"I friggin' can't stand someone going on about being a persecuted christian when people don't hate them for being a christian, they hate them for being a flaming hemorrhoid." -NonProphet

"I give it a free pass now. Much in the same way the U.S. Senate is made up of 100 Senators, I consider the Trinitarian Christian god to be a three-comprise-the-one godhead." -Eljay

"I have a friend who got pregnant by buying Barry White's old mattress at a garage sale." -mrbehemoth

"I have almost made it all the way through Duck Soup. The funniest part to me is how nobody seems to notice the Marx brothers are actually insane and treat them like they are legitimate members of society. Sort of like Kim Jong-Il." -snoopylucy

"I have an extensive collection of weird music. I would like to see a porn movie made to polka music." -SnoopyLucy

"I have been back before the Big Bang and discovered that FC was right: there WAS no Big Bang. This universe was started because the last one exploded when two men married each other." -MrBehemoth

"I have his posters all over my bedroom walls hes just the dreemiest, cutest boi EVER! once i went to one of his masses and i sware on my dogs life and you no how much i luv my dog, but neway i sware benedict looked STRAIGHT AT ME omg i nearly died he is so gorjus catholicism roxorz!!!!!!!!!!!!" -mrbehemoth

"I have maintained for a long time now that Bush could litter the whitehouse lawn with the discarded bodies of underage male crackwhores that he had used up and would still suffer ZERO political fallout." -chip

"I have no doubt that you command respect, since based on the contents of your posts it's extremely unlikely that you could ever earn it." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"I have no interest in writing down an inventory of everything I havenÂ’t thought of." -Tayana

"I have struggled for years to work the phrase "jerk-off" into a post and have so far failed." -ptcarnahan

"I have to be suspicious that fundamentalist Christinity has paid a far greater role in stymying scientific research in America as well as dumbing down the education system in general, because the religiosity has for several decades apparently had much greater influence than the political system has been willing to admit." -DarwiniaStill

"I have to chastise you for posting something with an iota of content. Albeit a refreshing departure from your regular posts, such posts may besmirch your finely honed reputation." -Eljay

"I have to think the world would be a better place if competition for the Darwin Awards was not so intense." -Citizen12

"I have you on ignore because your posts are equivalent to textual flatulence." -Eljay

"I heard a rumor that 2+2 equaled four. It turned out it was true, so all rumors are true." -Tatarize

"I hope I live to see the day when the Bible can be taught in public. In a mythology class, alongside Greek, Roman and Norse mythologies." -curtt

"I just can't quite understand why, with a an infinite world of things that actually exist - people have a burning need to insist that there's something "else." -Crosshatch

"I just can't stand the knee jerk reaction to criticism of anything Jewish or Israeli as anti-Semitic. It is an attempt to cut off legitimate discussion about some negative instances and occurrences with threats of labeling someone a bigot. It is unproductive and nothing but an avoidance technique." -Tony

"I just can't wait for the Lord to reward my good Christian life by giving me a pitchfork to stick into you." -J316

"I keep some pigs around and whenever I find a demon I cast it into one of the pigs and drive it over a cliff. If more people did this it would reduce the violent crime rate." -khorton

"I kind of like militant atheism. The Christians are horrified that such people dare to speak out and they scurry around like ants being stirred with a stick. It doesn't bother me in the least, and I am the nicest person you will never meet." -kerryh9

"I knew a guy with a mohawk once - he had to sleep with it between album covers with bricks flattening it out. I was impressed at his dedication to his hairstyle. His hair was green, too. Now he just looks normal and walks dogs for a living."-SnoopyLucy

"I know it doesn't matter what I hope for and what I don't, but, like a month or so back when Alabama's governor asked that everybody pray for rain, rather than presumably hiring professional raindancers... well, that made me want Alabama to never get rain." -Tatarize

"I know its bound to happen with buildings like the Burj Dubai going up. The gods are going to come and stir up our languages again. I just know it." -AtheistKeith

"I know this is evil of me, but I like seeing all-wheel drive vehicles in the ditch in icy conditions. Not if it looks like a serious accident, of course, but I like to see a big truck with cosmetic damage and an asshoIe that will be late to an appointment." -benmcd

"I like Rammstein. I just don't understand how you think Norwegian black metal happens to be related to German industrial electronica." -DarkAngel

"I like the term YouTuber when it refers to someone who has the insight and intelligence of a potato." -nganga2

"I like this metaphor... it allows me to describe my previous relationships in terms of models of cars. I've dated a couple of SUV's in my time, a few econo-boxes, and one or two hybrids." -Rillion

"I love black comedy. I think the Bush administration is hilarious." -TSShagnasty

"I love the typical Christian double-think of 'We are the majority' plus 'We are persecuted'. I, personally, have trouble holding two such contradictory thoughts at the same time without my head exploding." -Queen Maeve

"I measure success in life by the number and quality of the adventures. On my deathbed, itÂ’s how I plan to keep score." -EasyD2

"I must say, morality based on reasoning is a lovely thing to behold. It is so much richer than the bland "God said so" rules which front as moral systems." -Citizen12

"I never exaggerate. Total accuracy or bald-faced lies, that's me." -mrbehemoth

"I never liked role-playing. I prefer mechanical, joyless sex in pitch blackness, preferably through a sheet as our Lord intended." -mrbehemoth

"I never really thought of myself as vitriolic, just really, really unpleasant to be around." -mrbehemoth

"I once considered blasphemy to be a most heinous act; nowadays, I consider blasphemy a form of poetry to be studied and mastered." -AtheistKeith

"I only bring it up because the forum is pretty down on post modernism, mostly because the recursive metaphorical themes of the intercalary transcendental actualization of the community is negatively inclined." -Tatarize

"I plead guilty as charged to being a cafeteria Christian. I'll have a generous portion of the abundant life and leave rebuke and scourging for you." -John76

"I prefer Benny Hill to Adam Sandler because Benny Hill is dead." -mrbehemoth

"I question a person's ability to "participate in another's suffering" without actually doing anything to help them. If that is compassion, then it is empty compassion....worthless and possibly even harmful. True compassion, to me, is the motivation plus action which is in keeping with the source of the motivation." -Rillion

"I really don't see much of a difference between this talking to God and someone who says he has conversations with Napoleon. The only exception being that they have a padded room for the latter." - Saint Bengel

"I really think very few people actually Really believe without evidence. They have their evidence. They rationalize some mental processes and derive their own evidence by referring to some past percieved experience. I'm not talking about the people that claim to be believers but never give it a thought. I mean the people that really pray and talk to their god and really believe. The passionate ones, I suppose." -lahatte

"I really thought we'd have come farther by now in terms of an Everyman's working cosmology. There are so many people walking around with ipods and iphones and all that stuff, thinking they're so "modern," who seem perfectly content to parrot the strange ideas of polygamist herdsmen animal sacrificers from the ox-cart era." -Crosshatch

"I respect faith in the same way I respect a hurricane. I expect it to do some damage, I wish I could prevent it, but I can't." -FrankDK

"I saw a god. He was beautiful. He was about 20 feet long, shining in the sunlight, ploughing effortlessly through the harbour. Well, technically it wasn't a god, it was a yacht, but you get my drift." -mrbehemoth

"I see an interesting symmetry here. Many believers think that anyone who thinks the Bible isn't true must not have read it. Many skeptics think that anyone who thinks the Bible is true must not have read it." - DougOfCal

"I sometimes take an unhealthy pride in being an atheist before reminding myself that not falling for the absurd is not really much of an accomplishment." -Unregistered

"I sometimes think every book has already been written, but every year a lot more are published, so I guess not." -SnoopyLucy

"I stopped googling my nickname when all that came up were some old posts on a serious porn forum." -Deadwombat

"I suppose it's only fair that American cigarettes get in to heaven, because their beer sure isn't going to." -Flux

"I suspect that for many, the label 'logic' just denotes a big bucket that you can dump into anything that fits the category of 'persuasive' or 'reasonable' even if it's only shallowly so." - Arjaypet

"I tend to suspect that when people use the term "closed-minded" they are talking about those people who do not believe in something that they hold dear." -Anduin

"I think Creationists result from indoctrination and a lack of education in critical-thinking skills. I believe they are victims more than anything else. One has to consider that the thought processes encouraged by some types of theistic indoctrination have much greater deleterious effects on their lives than does a rejection of the theory of bio-evolution." -Citizen12

"I think his bus is so short it's collapsed into a singularity of stupid." -Jedi Ducky

"I think insurance companies should sell something like "Jesus Supplemental" policies. They would only cover situations where Jesus did not save people, their homes, their cars, etc. They could be sold at a greatly reduced rate." -Tayana42

"I think it is funny that you assume that I am sane. Embrace the insanity. Hold it close and call it 'George'." -Deadwombat

"I think it's called ASCII art. I remember the first time I heard someone talking about ASCII. I thought they were saying "a$$ key". It had me completely baffled." -SnoopyLucy

"I think it's funny that so many arguments about the morality of homosexuality forget lesbians exist. It belies the fact that many people's objection to male homosexuality lies in a distorted view of gender roles and masculinity." -Glamrawk

"I think it's like a prayer cloth. You pin it to yourself to recieve god's blessing or protection and to gain his wisdom for whatever problem you are having. So you see, there is nothing superstitious about christianity." - Jenbo47

"I think one of the cruelest things that we can do to our fellow travelers is the false offering of love to them while taking away our respect for them and their own dignity. An example of that twisted ethic might be "Love the sinner, but hate the sin". -ptcarnahan

"I think one of the heights of conflict will be when the Texas Legislature starts burning Wiccans at the stake. I've already pre-ordered bleachers to be placed around the Texas border and will be selling popcorn. Someone should make some coinage off this and it might as well be me." -MartiniStraightUp

"I think that even if belief in the supernatural, God, or whatever could be more or less done away with, there'll almost surely be someone who thinks that his team lost because he forgot to wear his lucky underpants." -Superhop

"I think that religion in particular has co-opted the truly humanistic term spirituality and made it mundane and irrelevant. Whenever someone asks me about it, I keep the conversation focused on the things that each of us has in common - we are alive here and now and we are human." -Bean

"I think the existence of morality is contingent only upon the existence of beings that conceive it... much like God." -Seth

"I think the whole world is at war with irrationality. The problem is that where the battle lines on everybody's maps seem to separate Christians from Muslims, the irrationals are the only ones fighting on either side."-Doug of Cal.

"I think they are all wrong. The nucleus is clearly held together by the brains of Young Earth Creationists which are very, very small and, although things gather around those brains, nothing ever penetrates them. They are perfect for holding nuclei together." -Atheist Keith

"I think you are mistaking me for you, Mr. Normative Objectivist Descriptive Relativistic Absolutist Universalist obfuscater." -Lynne (SmartFemale)

"I think you need to contemplate the fact that you are so extraordinarily stupid that expressing your ignorant views in public is an act of criminal negligence." -Mo

"I thought the main tenet of Western Buddhism is that the source of all suffering is varmints".- MrBehemoth

"I try not to think about the number of hours I spent walking up and down in the middle of the night, cuddling and singing (!) to RH4 in attempt to get him to sleep. Now it just requires 473 stories, a long discussion about the abilities of various robots, and a very large mallet." -RH3

"I understand the appeal of libertarianism and in a perfect world I'd be a libertarian, but so long as where you start life is the best predictor of where you'll end up in life, I just don't get it. If the playing field is so uneven and there are such vast differences in the opportunities people have based on the socio-economic status they're born into, it just seems like there must be a role for society as a whole to open opportunities for the disadvantaged." -Aino

"I walk on a track most days with a stick, and I always draw a little Happy Face with a "Hi!" next to it for whoever comes along later. Sometimes there will be a "Hi!" in response, sometimes it is untouched, but quite often it has been deliberately scuffed out. Once someone wrote a Bad Word. If I was a psychology major this would be my thesis." -SnoopyLucy

"I want the most true beliefs and the fewest false beliefs. If you don't want that for yourself, oh well... I hope you get gored by a unicorn." -Tatarize

"I want to add one more now, too: 'Red Barchetta' by Rush. Not only is it a great driving song, but it's a song *about* driving; but not merely driving. No, it's about driving against The Man." -Beelzehost

"I want to get a t-shirt showing Che Guevara wearing a t-shirt with my face on it." -Mrreindeer

"I want to see the Sopranos and Deadwood without all the Goddamn cussing. I think it gives children a negative impression of mobsters and whoremongers." -Icky

"I was at a party a while back, and a woman asked me if I believed in original sin. I replied, "It depends. How original do you want to be?" -FrankDK

"I was going to write something rude, but then an uncharacteristic wave of compassion came over me and I thought "No, this one is a well-meaning simpleton. I'll let it pass." -RH3

"I was in Hollywood in '96 and saw a set of size 15 red high heeled strap up pumps in a transvestite supply shop. I nearly bought them, even though I am not gay, just so I could have them if I did turn gay, because I felt I would never get shoes like that again." -DeadWombat

"I was just admiring her ability to not only be inaccurate, but to be diametrically opposed to reality." -MrBehemoth

"I was mired in rhetoric once. I had to call Roadside Semantics to get me out". -mrbehemoth

"I was thinking of working at this soup kitchen to earn some God points and weasel my way into Heaven, but then I recalled there wasn't any heaven so I started beating some homeless guys with a chair and blew my head off." -Tatarize

"I was told that some of the residents of New Orleans went ahead and staged a mini Southern Decadence party under a banner that said, "Hey, God, you missed a spot"." -glacson

"I was wondering earlier if it was possible for you to integrate new knowledge into your worldview. It appears that you are unable to do so. I wonder why you are unable? Do you have any insight to offer concerning your inability to learn?" -Chip

"I wasn't going to [run for president], and couldn't anyway. RH4 might (he's a U.S. citizen) but I'd rather he took up something a bit more honourable, such as marine biology or pimping." -RH3

"I wasn't telling you to go to hell, I was telling you what "perish" means in the biblical context, but if you don't repent you will go to hell. Anyways, God bless you." -JTRivero

"I watched a bit of Survivor, but only because that was what the people who had control of the bong were watching." -xyz

"I went to a seminar at my lab on the topic of sparse network matricies and linear algebra. I thought it sounded like an exciting topic, but few people showed up". - Erikwoof

"I will admit that if God shows up at my door with a quarter pounder, I'm converting." -mrbehemoth

"I will follow wherever the evidence takes me. I just object to proceding in advance of the evidence." -Kate Towner

"I will never truly understand why anyone would push aside their humanity and their good sense in order to follow a religion." -C12

"I wonder when these dingbat Christians who push these types of laws are going to realize they don't need a law to enable them to perform the internal mind function that is called 'praying'." -Rev.Martini

"I would expect Atheist Barbie to be a brunette (no good reason)." -(MadScientis1)

"I would not accuse you of lying - but let us say that you are a little conservative with honesty occasionally."- EuropaXS

"I would suggest you try another method of avoiding insults, such as making an effort to not deserve them." -mrbehemoth

"I would tip my hat to you if I wore one or proclaim "Huzzah and kudoes!" loudly if I said stupid things blithely." -Ibn Tumart

"I wouldn't venture to say that there would be no wars or conflicts without religion. However, I think religion is a very common and easy excuse for hostilities and taking away one of the hooks on which the agressor can hang his hat might leave more room for the peacemakers' voices to be heard." -Fox

"I'd define 'god' as a fictional character that inspires people to pseudo-intellectual maundering and intrepid flights of equivocation."- Elmeraho

"I'd forgive you, but I don't have an only begotten son to sacrifice. Sorry." -Seth351

"I'd rather be among British people than with the finest people on earth." -SnoopyLucy

"I'd rather take comfort in the fact that, like me, other atheists typically believe that this life is all she wrote, that secular humanism is a superior philosophy to that of any religion, and that evolution satisfactorily explains the origin of life, with no need for the intervention of intelligent deities." -SmartFemale

"I'll concede that Catholic dogma has been adaptive in our co-evolution with various parasites. As to the evolutionary basis of religion, I prefer (ironically enough) the spandrel theory. But let's say religion has been adaptive in our social evolution - that is to say it's produced more people, not justice or happiness." -Adrian

"I'll deny all things supernatural except for baseball superstitions. That's how I fill my spiritual void. So I am absolutely certain there is no God, but if you mention that a pitcher is working on a no-hitter before the last pitch is thrown, you will jinx him and that's really a rotten thing to do." -Mrreindeer

"I'm a materialist. What cannot be measured or otherwise show evidence of existence may as well not exist, as it has no effect on that which does. If it did, that effect would be evidence." -Longstreet63

"I'm actually more inclined to eat octopus after finding out how smart they are, because I don't think we should give 'em an inch." -mrbehemoth

"I'm afraid I don't accept that "Christianity" is logically coherent enough that I could, with a straight face, lecture Christians on what they're "supposed" to do. I just keep my fingers crossed that they pick up on some of the more liberal, beatitudy bits and remain oblivious to the misogynist bits, of which there are plenty. Ditto for the homophobic bits and the pro-slavery bits and the anti-scientific bits." -Keepwe

"I'm always amused when I see men proclaiming "We're having a baby!" in reference to their freshly pregnant wife. I regard it in the same sense as some drunken, half-naked, sun burned Yankees fan in the bleachers saying "We won the pennant!" -Gonzo

"I'm ashamed of us - lobbying with the moderators to ban/gag someone because he's annoying...OK, very annoying...OK, extremely annoying. But what happened to the good, old-fashioned dog pile?" -Seth

"I'm assuming that English is not your native language, so I'll eschew comment on your syntax." - FRANKDK

"I'm beginning to suspect that religious people who compare God with fathers must have had really crappy fathers." -RH3

"I'm getting rather tired of Christian arm chair physicists waving their hands around in the air, muttering about the "mysteries of QM" and invoking a similar mystery for their god. If God were understood as well as quantum mechanics, we would have already miniaturized him and put him in a device to carry around on our wrists." -Ozy666

"I'm more interesting in discussing the morality of the god depicted in the Bible. For example, I find discussing the morality of forcing rape victims to marry their rapists, of cutting off women's hands for rescuing their husband by hitting an attacker in the groin, or of forcing wives to drink magic adultery-detection cursed potions if their husband becomes jealous. I just find these conversations more interesting than tedious discourses about the fact that the Bible has abysmal historical value or the fact that it is replete with contradictions." -AtheistKeith

"I'm not bragging or anything, because, as I like to say, "I'm just a sock puppet with the Universe up my ass, but even as a kid I asked questions like: "Where did 'God' stand when he made everything?" -Crosshatch

"I'm not judging you. I'm just telling you that God says you're going to hell". - chip

"I'm not prepared to be offended by anyone expressing their personal beliefs, even if they are government officials. They can say they believe in ghosts too, so long as I'm not required to do anything about it. Proclaiming false beliefs that have no consequence isn't rude, it's embarrassing." -Roylatham

"I'm really starting to wonder if you're a only an atheist because you fail to understand religion in the first place. I mean, it doesn't seem like you have the logical facilities to reason your way out." -Tatarize

"I'm sorry, but I can see absolutely no value in unprovable/unfalsifiable BS like solpisism or postmodernism. If YOU want to go around thinking that you might possibly be a small blue soapdish, be my guest. But please don't waste my time by trying to get me to join you."-chip

"I'm sure I must have said something interesting since I've been here. But at the moment I can't think what it was." Kate Towner

"I'm surprised this isn't more obvious to more people: you come across a watch in the forest, and you know it's designed, because it's so unlike the rocks and trees in the forest...therefore the rocks and trees must be designed." -mrbehemoth

"I'm toying with the notion that God is a 400-pound yellow canary." -mymallandnew

"I'm with the others who say that atheism is a default status one acquires when theism fails us. We don't choose to become atheists, it is just a by-product of discovering that there aren't any gods." -AtheistKeith

"I've always wanted to see a tanker filled with human waste crash into a pokemon factory and explode." -TSShagnasty

"I've become convinced that the secret to such a near-utopia would be the universal recognition that all humans share a common bond of humanity that transcends more superficial cultural differences." -smartfemale

"I've been feeling a whole lot of that lately. It's gotten so that when it comes to engaging fundies, the shine ain't worth the spit." -chip

"I've found kids have an amazing talent for pushing you so far that you magically become a complete tyrant." -MrBehemoth

"I've had a can of Spam for months now! Really I do. I just haven't found the right moment to eat it yet." -MaxHarper

"I've lost count of the number of things I've memorized." -Tatarize

"I've never had much use for philosophy or its positions. The Kama Sutra has much better ones." -Gonzo

"I've read most of the bible, in bits and pieces over the years. It's really terrible and nonsensical writing. Sitting down and trying to read the whole thing would just give me more reason to not even consider it a decent story." - Mags

"I, for one, appreciate your reducing your font size. You're still a raving lunatic, but at least you're not raving so loudly anymore. That's progress." -Queen Maeve

"If a fundie is cut in half, which half won't shut up?" -mrbehemoth

"If believers and skeptics alike could ever get past the fallacious arguments that they both love so much, then just maybe they could figure out which, if either, side has any valid arguments left." -DougOfCal

"If evolution has shown that many of our physical faults are the product of chance and are not reflective of our value as people, has it not elevated the moral condition of man? Does liberating ourselves from the stupid superstition that illness is proof of a lack of character not have great moral value?" -Aino

"If fear of punishment is the only restraint on your conduct, then you are morally deficient. You should study Confucianism, Stoicism, or Buddhism, instead of Christianity. They might develop a little moral sense in you." -RH3

"If God can do anything, can He make a copyright that He can't infringe?" - SnoopyLucy

"If God set up the natural order, and he is a moral agent, all the natural evil is his fault and is actually moral evil. There is no really popular justification for God's cruelty and those excuses which have been offered concentrate on the effects on the human race. Christian theologians seem not to care about the suffering of non-humans." -RH3

"If I said that God told me you were wrong, how would we figure out which one of us was crazy?" -Rev. Martini

"If I want science I'll read science books. And if I want a badly hobbled together mish mash of the worst of the Jewish religion and various pagan traditions with some rather amusing erotic poetry here and there... I'll read the bible." -maxharper

"If I were a genius I'd invent a way to turn posts like that into something useful, then at least I could spread it round the garden and maybe get some decent roses this year." -RevDave

"If I were a sadist I would advocate making illegal something totally innocuous, like... peanut butter, say, and see how long it takes before it becomes identified as a "dangerous element" that people deal on the streets for outrageous amounts of money and kill each other to get, and people start saying "You can't legalize peanut butter - look at all of the crime associated with it!"- Rillion

"If I were God, I'd ensure that everyone used the subjunctive." -Mo

"If it wasn't for people like you who think it's wrong, homosexuality wouldn't be any more awkward than being left-handed is." -LtPowers

"If it were true that God will punish me for not believing in him, I still wouldn't gamble on it because the very game itself is appalling. I would no more swear allegiance to such a God than I would swear allegiance to a dictator who promised my safety if I will help him exterminate his enemies." -JAlanBrown

"If language evolves, where are the transitional dictionaries?" -mrbehemoth

"If liking SpongeBob will make me gay, then so be it. Take me to Bikini Bottom and make me gay." -Beelzehost

"If Newt becomes President, we most surely would be eft." -Best Peasant

"If not for theists, I might well just be a weak atheist about the position. The assumption demands that every theist in the world be constantly wrong. And really the belief has paid huge dividends and constantly finds itself accurately predicting the failures of huge groups of people." -Tatarize

"If one does the right thing often enough, then one is going to be ripped off every once in a while. Anyone whose personal policy is to guarantee that never happens is not being charitable enough." -DougofCal

"If simple faith were a health benefit, the bible belt of the U.S. would not have the country's overall highest rates of obesity, heart disease, high cholesterol, and diabetes." -Flux

"If someone makes stupid and idiotic statements, they deserve to be insulted. And degraded. (And vilified and laughed at). It's only right, and I do so believe in justice." -gclason

"If the whole 'what the word "gay" means' discussion escapes them, just throw in the towel and say 'Well, you know, Jesus was gay. He had twelve male friends, they ate of his body... gay. Obviously gay. Flaming gay. Even more gay than Elton John -- Jesus was Liberace gay'." -Eljay

"If then, your method is a useful means of determining the truth, please tell me some great mystery that was solved by faith, sans evidence." -AtheistKeith

"If there is a dog poop - pornonography connection, I hope to go the grave without hearing about it." -SnoopyLucy

"If there is a hell, it is staffed not by pyrotechnicians, but by philosophy majors." -AtheistKeith

"If there were a God, George W. would vomit on someone important during the big G8 banquet." -Mrreindeer

"If there's anything the NRA has taught me, it's that automatic weapons don't kill people; atheists kill people." -benmcd

"If we liked talking to angry people, we'd pray." -mrbehemoth

"If we're going to start litigating lawsuits for the coyote ugly types, then, let's face it: the entire state of Mississippi may as well be in court." -Reshuffle

"If you actively maintain delusions, then you are delusional. It doesn't matter if only one person believes the delusions or everyone on earth. A delusion does not suddenly become a truth if only enough people believe it." -AtheistKeith

"If you are saying that I am a "fundamentalist" atheist, then you are mistaken. It is impossible to be a fundamentalist atheist because there are no fundamentals to fundament over." -Lahatte

"If you end up saying "God has no objective purpose, God just IS" - and at some point in the concentric circles of meaning, you must then understand why atheists like myself say "Life has no objective purpose - life just IS." -Mo

"If you find yourself unable to determine whether you exist, I think you might want to take a few less "soft subjects" next semester. Maybe take some business courses or something." -AtheistKeith

"If you read the Bible you'd know that marriage is between one man, several women, various concubines, and the occasional dead brother's wife." -Tatarize

"If you really think that your morals came from the bible, consider this - the morals you have and the morals from other Christians from other times and cultures are vastly different. I'm not talking about minor changes, but on important issues like women's rights, slavery, war, murder, child rearing and other primal issues. Differences of night and day. And they all had the same book that they claimed had their moral guidelines." -MaxHarper

"If you say you can produce scripture that says the sky is blue, producing scripture that talks about the color of the ocean doesn't count." -C12

"If you want to see out of control emotions from men, all you need do is attend a sporting event, a political contest, or a war." -Rillion

"If you want to think that a man lived in a whale or that Noah rounded up polar bears and penguins and Cocker Spaniels, that's your business, but do you really expect people to believe that stuff who aren't afraid not to?" -Crosshatch

"If you're talking about an omnipotent god who loves all of humanity and wants all of humanity to know that he loves them, just open your eyes to the world around you. The evidence of that god's nonexistence is everywhere, and it has been everywhere throughout all human history." - DougofCal

"If your faith is so weak that you have to shield your child from the very idea that some people think differently, then it's time for you to closely examine what you believe." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"If your God depends on the modern day version of belief in a flat earth, it's doomed. These are not the Dark Ages - at least for anyone who dares to think." -Mo

"If your opponent doesnÂ’t know any Greek (and he usually doesnÂ’t) you can demonstrate that you do, and thereafter adopt the manner of a professor debating with an unlettered peasant whose boots are coated with agricultural by-product.Not fair, of course, but terribly satisfying. Your smugness quotient goes up from 'objectionable' to 'absolutely intolerable'." -RH3

"In '91 I went on a business trip to Saudi Arabia. The visa application had an entry for religion. I entered "none". The next day, my supervisor informed me that I had become Baptist." -Seth351

"In addition, the evil perpetrated by Abrahamic religions is such that once doubt about their god enters their brain, the good person, the ethical person, the kind, caring person is forced to see them as distasteful." -xolo

"In America we don't have any special beetles for our dung. Our dung just lays there without a beetle being interested in rolling it into a ball." -SnoopyLucy

"In fact, I think faith properly understood is a powerful argument for strong atheism with respect to the God of Christianity. I don't happen to believe in the existence of a God, but if there is a benevolent God who has escaped my notice, I have faith in Him not to do anything so unutterably stupid as send me important information concerning my salvation through an evangelical cult such as Christianity whose members are confused about the difference between faith in God and faith in Christians." -Keepwe

"In real life I don't often meet Christians, but I think that's not so much because I'm an atheist as it is because I live in England. We've pretty much been there, done it with the whole religion thing, and everything seemed to get better around the time the real nutters left on the Mayflower." -RevDave

"In the big scheme of things, it wasn't much of a sacrifice. One bad weekend; less trauma than the little girl who was kidnapped and raped over years by her father in Austria. Less trauma than hundreds and thousands of people in the world every year throughout history." -Readzalot

"In the end, I suppose that is the reason that religious leaders cannot, absolutely cannot empower their congregations with the capacity for freethought. They don't want it. They go to church to receive a specific service - conviction, catharsis, and the irrational reassurance that the money and time they are committing to the church will ensure that the pain and struggle they encounter in this life will have been worth it, rewarded in an afterlife of eternal reward and guiltless ecstasy. If they don't receive this service from one minister, they will go shopping for another." -cyberdigital

"In the end, if the nation's integrity survives, this all might turn out to have been like getting a case of the measles. The disease hurt, but it is nice to have the antibodies it engendered." -Citizen12

"In the spirit of finding something nice to say about everyone, I do note that, at the very least, you're honest enough to admit you're a closed-minded ignoramus." -Flux

"In this, the Church is responsible for crimes against humanity, as well as the working class, which are unforgivable. It is the duty of all moral human beings to oppose such an institution, and even to dance on its ashes." -DarkAngel

"Indulging in self-delusional and cherished fantasy saves no one. It is an abdication of responsibility and reality, and a surrender to irrationality and psychosis." -Eljay

"Interesting that several of us seem to approve of the idea of blowing people up. We just differ a bit about whom to blow up." -RH3

"Ironically, I would think if a god of some sort actually existed, atheism brings one closer to god, as it is very evident to me that this god does not want mankind to know it exists, and therefore atheists are one step closer to understanding god's grand plan." -jellomold2

"Is it possible to care less than not at all about other peoples' sex lives or lack thereof? That's my position. Not caring at all doesn't quite describe or equal the intensity of my indifference." -Crosshatch

"Isn't it strange that the same people who claim to be creations in the image of their god are those who usually find the bodies their god supposedly created somehow bad and shameful?" -NonProphet

"It actually concerns me that, on my deathbed, saying "oh jesus" due to pain might be interpreted as a last minute conversion. Screw that. I must remember to use the F-word as my preferred expletive." - Postmodernhousewife

"It broke my heart into one piece when Bush left office." -AtheistKeith

"It depends on what you mean by caring for number one. If you treat your fellow humans as if their concerns and feelings were of no importance to you, your life will suck." -DougofCal

"It does seem odd that people accept God but quibble over degrees of nonsense. It's like buying an imaginary car you'll never see, but debating endlessly what color is best and whether or not you paid enough." - Tatarize

"It doesn't matter, in the philosophy, if ideas are racist or fascist. Ideas have to stand on their own merit and to fail on their merit, not be forbidden because 'we don't like them'. I may be against spreading those ideas 'on the streets', but not against examining them in classes and universities". -Grahor

"It has become apparent to me that people can believe that gods are real while knowing very nearly nothing. In fact, I have noticed that being in the state of knowing very nearly nothing seems to be fertile ground for belief in the existence of gods." -Citizen12

"It has been just as easy for bad actors to justify their actions by non-religious justifications as religious, and I cannot see that the wholesale adoption of atheism would change this." -Streiche

"It has occurred to me that religion and morality have as much to do with each other as vision and eye color." -JAlanBrown

"It is a sad thing that the idea of changing your position in the light of new evidence is so universally considered to be a bad thing and a sign of weakness." -Fluffy

"It is just the way I look at it. Faith is an affliction. I don't know why people go on about how awesome it is. It is just a cancerous version of trust. Trust can be good, but faith is diseased trust." -AtheistKeith

"It is probably the most ironic statement ever to state that God and religion unite us. Yes, they do unite people--mostly when they want to kill other people." -Nazrani

"It is so amusing to me that your whole point is that science is based on evidence and that theism is based on a lack of evidence. Wherever there is a lack of evidence, it must be God! Perhaps instead of pointing out gaps in scientific knowledge, you could show us some evidence that God actually exists?" -BillZBub

"It is the analogy with Christianity. Sin is the cancer. Jesus is the cure. But who tells you Jesus is the cure? The same people who tell you that sin is the cancer!" - RH3

"It is true that, in many Latin American cultures, being handed a severed human arm is considered bad luck." -mrbehemoth

"It just occurred to me that the reason experts on god don't agree on anything is because - obviously - there's more than one god. In fact, there's probably (at least) one god for every expert. So much for monotheism." - VeryIrreverentRichard

"It must be interesting to live in your head and experience the world as a series of talking points utterly unconnected by logic." - Keepwe

"It occurs to me that someone very cynical with little or no shame could make it very big in television." -Flux

"It seems inarguable to me that the thousands of hours you apparently have devoted to making sense of your Bronze Age and medieval ancestors represents time that you have NOT spent learning about everything that every other civilized person on earth finds relevant and worthwhile." -Crosshatch

"It seems that God only wants to save people who are prepared to believe things which appear to be nonsense. Why would a super intelligent God be so prejudiced against intelligent people?" -RH3

"It seems that the group that most eschews reason is the group that hates the most. It seems that it is reason, rather than religion, which most encourages people to follow the Golden Rule." -Citizen12

"It stops being amusing after a few years. Theists seem to be immune to logic. They try to use it for their own ends, but don't feel obligated to believe any valid conclusions drawn from such logic that they don't endorse." -Tatarize

"It surprises me how many otherwise intelligent people come here all fired up to tell us that Atheism is just another form of the unfounded belief that it rejects. I don't believe in "God" ....period. I don't make any claims about the existence or non-existence of things I can't prove. Simple, isn't it?" -Crosshatch

"It would almost be worth the trouble of getting divorced and going to Canada just to get married by a gay Elvis." -RH3

"It's a joy to me as well. Talking about copulative verbs puts me in a state of conjugal bliss." -mrreindeer

"It's a little humbling to realize life on this planet is pretty much based on poop." -SnoopyLucy

"It's a pity that all those mental gymnastics you go through to arrive at your tortured 'conseptualizations' don't do anything to improve your mental fitness." -chip

"It's a pretty depressing thought; to only live on in memory through a quote displaying your sheer stupidity. Note to self: be more witty." -Mags

"It's a shame that you've dedicated so much time answering a post for which an adequate response may be found inside any random box of Cracker Jack." -Dingo

"It's a slippery slope. One day we're banning good old fashioned funeral heckling, but then that leads to..what? No more dragging bloody corpses through the street?" -Beelzehost

"It's amazing how much this sounds like people of faith trying to explain how their faith is backed up by evidence." -dlove5duke

"It's an opinion I cannot help but hold. The second I read it at university my very being rebelled with intellectual revulsion at it. If Anselm's proof is actually a proof, then everything I know is wrong." -Mrbehemoth

"It's curious that the author [of Genesis] seems to think the sun was just an additional light in an already light-filled day, and the natural conclusion is not that he was speaking figuratively but that he was full of shit." -Keepwe

"It's funny when they start quoting scarier and scarier bible verses about what god is going to do to us if we don't believe. It's like when somebody starts shouting at a person who doesn't speak English." -Twsh

"It's hard to stay deflated by reality for long if you have an internalized certainty that you're in a personal relationship with the biggest honcho of all, and HE'S madly in love with you. He'll be waiting with outstretched arms when you kick the breathing habit, and off you'll go to where it can't get any better because it's always as great as it gets....forever. It makes swallowing a bunch of bizarre ancient Science Fiction backstory seem like a pretty small price to pay." -crosshatch

"It's hilarious that a Christian can reel off a list of terrible deaths, and yet claim that the worst of them all was the guy who didn't actually die, and knew that he wouldn't all along." -mrbehemoth

"It's not 'name calling', it's a statement of fact. Anyone who says 'Atheists have a god, and it's Satan' is pure and complete uneducated idiot. I am sorry, but a fact is a fact. We can dance around it, we can name it fancy pc names like "mentally handicapped", we can blame society for this, but the fact remains: you are an idiot." -Grahor

"It's not nerve to resist social conventions invented by religious folks to protect religion. If you believe complete nonsense you'll be called on it in every realm - politics, society, art, literature, sports. But religion... oh, no. We've got magical respect for people who walk away from the wheel of a bus and pretend Jesus is driving." -Tatarize

"It's not that I don't want to see you atheists suffer. The fantasy about whacking you on the ass as you try to get out of that lake of fire really excites me." -John76

"It's pretty easy to rip through a tissue-paper argument with only religious arguments in favor of the proposition. If there are only religious arguments for something, there are no good arguments for it." -Tatarize

"It's proud of everything. Proud of being smug, proud of being obnoxious, proud of being ignorant, proud of being enslaved to an insane death-cult, proud of the spontaneous orgasms experienced with every daydream about atheists slitting their wrists because someone put a Christmas tree up outside Kmart." -mrbehemoth

"It's really amazing how often theists of a certain stripe post links to articles which contradict their claims. You'd think they would first get someone to read the article and explain it to them." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"It's so sadly unsurprising that you see truth in astrology. You wouldn't recognise logic or critical thinking if it leapt down your throat and chewed on your appendix." -Mo

"It's the pope, it's terry schaivo, its Jerry, neck and neck in a race to the death, and wait, its Johnny cochrane up the outside in a surprise win!!" -DeadWombat

"It's why I always question what should be the obvious absurdity of the so-called Judeo-Christian tradition. When you shave off the necessarily fake ecumenical veneer, it's not a wild mischaracterization to see one side thinking something like, "Poor, misguided bastards don't know a messiah when they see one" and the other side thinking, "Poor, misguided bastards don't know a false messiah when they see one." - Crosshatch

"Jesus is one of those fervently admired and (supposedly) imitated people who people are very happy not to have around. That way they can claim he supports them without being proved wrong. Dying was the best move he ever made, similar to the way prices for pictures go up when an artist dies." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"Jesus of Nazareth was only included as a historical figure when Christians started to write history." -Seeker

"Judaism and Christianity are no different in that a moral person will find in them the moral guidelines to which he already adheres, and an immoral person will find in them justifications for his immorality." -C12(Citizen12)

"Just legalise terrorism. Leave behind the stupid moral ditty. Everyone's doin' it. It's the in thing. Add public funding, better arms, bigger special effects, and once the fight goes out of everyone, we'll all go home. If there is one." -Nazrani

"Just remember that, most times, when someone talks about "truth," they're talking about the point where they decided to stop learning". -rplourde

"Kind of ironic, eh? You claim the book that calls you a liar is 100% true." -chip

"Learning morality from books makes as much sense as learning how to swim from them..." -DarkAngel

"Let me break the news to you: the old boy has been a corpse for ages, refrigerated or not. He was a corpse when he turned a blind eye to the systemic child abuse in his churches and when he turned a blind eye to the civil rights of gays. The only thing more frozen in time than his body was his vision." -reshuffle

"Life has a meaningful purpose, and better yet, it's customizable. You get to make it yourself." -Tatarize

"Life is a process of giving up one thing after another. What a nuisance it is, but worth it. Strike a balance between what you like to do and what it's wise to do. Eat your veggies and keep moving." -Prismatic

"Life is too short to get mad at all the lies people believe." -benmcd

"Like most people, Christians prefer being comfortable and secure to being correct. Their religion gives them that illusion, so they have little or no interest in finding what the truth is, nor in admitting uncomfortable truths when they encounter them." -AtheistKeith

"Living a cloistered religious life is to me a warping of one's humanity. I would not go so far as to say that such a person can't have wisdom to impart to the rest of us, but my immediate reaction is suspicion." -RDalin

"Logic will prevent you from stepping off that roof. Faith will encourage you to try. Which is of more benefit is obvious to anyone who is not stupified by faith." -Chip

"Look, things happen. You bring in the girls and the dogs for a few snapshots of naked arabs masturbating and all of a sudden people are talking torture." -Prismatic

"Man, now I want a super karate monkey death car." -Ibn Tumart

"Maybe a good answer to the "no atheists in foxholes" argument is "yeah, it's hard to have war without religion." -MrReindeer

"Maybe he's afraid to descend into a pit of despair with all the rest of the atheists so his mind won't let him go there. He doesn't understand that it's really not that bad. That "empty" space is quickly filled with family and work and real life concerns and the realization that those are the things which filled that space all along." -Twsh

"Maybe he's one of Mary Baker Eddy's Christian Science majors. Where the term "science" means "not science"." -Eljay

"Maybe I should grab a hammer and smash away half my cerebral cortex. Then I might have a chance to find my way to the creationists' heaven." -Mo

"Me, a high priest? Well, maybe - if you left off the 'priest' part..." -chip

"Mind you, despite all attempts of my parents and society, I, myself, do not share the opinion, that showing up at a job is benefitial for me. In fact, I think such behaviour is beneath me, so, it's hard for me to be an advocate and propagandist of such a life style." -Grahor

"Mind you, everyone has very different understanding of "greater good". And I wouldn't agree on your definition of "greater good" if it does not include me somewhere out there in a space yacht with my harem." -Grahor

"Moral actions and principles are not delegated. Moral actions and principles are those that respect the rights and freedoms of others, and of society in general. All morality stems from that, and that alone." -lahatte

"More advanced = less biblical. Every step you take toward morality is a step you take away from the Bible." -Tatarize

"Most atheists do good, not because of some belief that a god will reward or punish us, but because by doing so, it strengthens our family, our community, our world - and that makes it a better place to live." -Readzalot1

"Most of those we grade as being incompetent at life aren't, which only enhances our desire for them to be incompetent at life." -Saint Bengal

"Most of what you say is genuinely quotable; it's just quotable in a men's-room-stall kind of way." -Reshuffle

"Most people shrink back from deep thinking. That's why they're referred to as 'the masses'." -Crosshatch

"Most single-celled organisms do not engage in sexual activity. They just split in half and ask themselves "Was it good for me as well?" - Seeker

"Much as you want to think 'I don't know' is some sort of victory for your side, it isn't; it's just what science says before it goes and finds out." -longstreet

"Murder is when you enter someone's house with a weapon in your hands and kill the owner. Killing is when you first declare war, then enter someone's house with weapon in your hands and kill the owner... Huge difference, you know." -Grahor

"My body tends to run faster than my mind. I arrive everywhere early, but end up just making grunting noises." -mrbehemoth

"My friends and I save ours (blasphemy) for Christmas Day, where in the evening we attempt to break all of the Seven Deadly Sins. We always eat 3/4 lb burgers at Casino el Camino for gluttony and the rest then just come naturally." -Leslie (lekkermeisje)

"My official opinion was to declare you retarded. You can attempt to rectify the mistakes that lead to this conclusion or just have this conclusion reiterated." -Tatarize

"My own maxim here is to stay careful about keeping my "hate list" or "don't-like list" always smaller than the list of "likes" and a lot smaller than my list of "care-nots". It's good for one's own mental health and makes better companions." -Georg (Empiricus)

"My point was that these claims are intoxicating. To believe something by sheer force of will in the face of contrary evidence can give one quite a kick. My point was that there is a real pleasure for many in seeking out and manufacturing evidence of God's will and actions." -BranchingStream

"My primate ancestors evolved and all I got was this stupid tool using ability and gigantic brain." -Longstreet

"My statement was: why present the message, if it is so critical, in such a manner that could overshadow it? Would you want your local weather person to tell you that a really bad storm is coming in plain and simple language or in the form of a haiku or sonnet?" -SavannahKing

"My uncle passed away in Mexico. We're all atheist and didn't care to pick up his body. The plan was to have him cremated there, but we didn't care enough about the ashes. So we didn't bother with pretty much anything." -Tatarize

"My will is specific. I should be kept alive indefinitely while draining my family of all they have. There should be fifteen visits to the state court and ten to the federal courts. The Sureme court should view my still palpitating corpse. The arrival of Jesse Jackson in a stretch limo to rend his garments would also be a nice touch. In short, I want a three-ring circus." -mymallandnew

"No one deserves mercy. If you deserve it, it's not mercy." -mrbehemoth

"No wonder you spew words the way you do: You are so full of yourself you've triggered your gag reflex." -elmeraho

"No, but I have these smart pills you can buy. No, they are not rabbit poos, they are smart pills. Yeah, they taste like rabbit poos, but they are smart pills. Ok, they are rabbit poos, but see, you ony had to eat five to get smart enugh to realise that." DeadWombat

"No, first you have to believe that sins actually exist, then you have to hate yourself for even being born and therefore sinful, which then opens your brain up for indoctronation into a bizzare set of rituals and instructions that look suspiciously like a copy of the social rules of a nomadic agrarian tribe." -Fluffy

"No, I just thought you didn't know you were an idiot, so I took it upon myself to inform you. If you already knew, however, I apologise for the presumption." -Flux

"No, no-one here will trust you because what you posted is not science. It's like some cargo-cult misunderstanding based on a 1930s' popular science magazine with half the pages missing." -RevDave

"No-one gets killed with Swiss Army Knives. By the time you have sorted out the blade from the magnifying glass, the bottle opener, the tweezers, and the thing for getting stones out of horses' hooves, your intended victim has run away." -RH3

"Nobody ever said making definitive judgments on the personal qualities of other human beings you don't really know was going to be easy." -mrbehemoth

"Not all "bad things" are born directly of the Books. But some indisputably are. Why ignore and rationalize and make excuses for them? Worst of all, why tolerate them in this day and age?" -JQHiggins

"Notice the 1st, 3rd, and last letters in "googled" spell God, but it only works in the past tense. Otherwise it's Goe. I'm pretty sure this is important, but I'm not sure why." -Tayana42

"Now I find it odd that you demand the impossible for that which you do not believe, yet for what you do believe you do so without a shred of evidence, reason or logic." -Eljay

"Now I have no direct knowledge of what the writer REALLY meant, but for 2000 years the church of God, the body of Christ, the congregation of the faithful, has interpreted these words to mean that if you don't kill heretics you become guilty of their sins. And they have done their killing secure in the knowledge that it was what God wanted." -gclason

"Now I sometimes think that after they burn me and hang my brother a black pall of ignorance and barbarism will fall over the world." - RH3

"Now if you ask me over a beer why I don't like catholicism in particular among other religions (none of which I like) I might say "Because catholicism can make an intelligent person act like an idiot." -Letxbex

"Now you might question why a self-admittedly not-so-intelligent person dares to call others stupid. Well, I do not need to be a hen to know when an egg is foul." -Empiricus

"Now, I understand that you cannot understand why anyone would be so altruistic without the threat of a god and eternal damnation hanging over them, but don't project your ethical deficiencies onto others." -Mo

"Obama gets the (Nobel) prize for fishing diplomacy out of the trash can and using it again. For that to be possible, someone had to put it in there in the first place. It's a bit like the implied message of opposition to disease which results from awarding a Nobel prize for medicine." -MarkBoyd

"Obviously all the plumbing (in heaven) empties into hell. It just wouldn't be fundie paradise without being able to sh!t on someone." -Rev.PJ

"Oddly, that's a common claim but wrong. Anybody who says that typically means to say that they aren't Jesusy enough. The truth is far easier than that. They cite the NT quite often and Jesus isn't as Jesusy as people say he is." -Tatarize

"Of course. I rarely listen to anything else. Metallica, Anthrax, and Bach... the trinity, as far as I'm concerned." -mrbehemoth

"Oh my Cod, I can speak Greek! AEIOU AEIOU AEIOU!" -Deadwombat

"Oh, come on. A bit of chanting "Namu Admida Butsu" won't do you any harm. Just stay away from the "nam myoho renge kyo" stuff." -RH3

"Oh, come on. What's wrong with poking fun at the Vatican and some good old-fashioned masturbation?" -Seeker

"Oh, I have a comic about looking up web comics, but under the circumstances, it'd be a tad recursive." -Flux

"Oh, I know there are plans to create God. I went to the townhall and saw the proposal drawings on display there. It was very nice. Too bad that the naming committee used all the budget." -SavannaKing

"Oh, no. Don't be looking to the real world for evidence of spiritual advancement. You have to look within. Everything you need to know about anything is right there. It's the only way to know nothing and yet claim ultimate intellectual superiority. Books are for standing on when you can't reach the top shelf." -Twsh

"Oh, so you don't care if innocent defenseless children are exposed to sex right smack bang in the middle of their exposure to violent crime and hard drug use? You monster." -mrbehemoth

"Oh, stop being so tolerant and reasonable. You've been a member of this forum long enough to know what is expected of Christians here." -RH3

"Oh, that's right, God is anything not fully defined. So God is undefinable... how do you know... because we defined it as anything we can't define. What if you finally define that? Well, then it wasn't God afterall." - Tatarize

"Oh, you've done a great job of spreading your message. What you have utterly failed to do is present one good reason why anyone should think the message originated with God." - DougofCal

"OK, let me explain something... just because you are an atheist doesn't mean you make rational arguments." - MaxHarper

"Old lags like me see a fair bit of consistency in U.S. foreign affairs. The U.S. consistently supports any regime, no matter how brutal and repressive, so long as that regime seems to promote U.S. interests and/or supports Israel." -RH3

"Once someone comes bearing the argument from incredulity, they've pretty much hit intellectual bottom." -Flux55A

"Once you accept that bible can contain errors, nothing stops god from being one of those errors." -Grahor

"Once you accept that homo sapiens is just one of millions of species on this planet that have co-evolved for millenia, these "mysteries" vanish. All that is left to determine are the mechanisms of their inter-relationships. And no, learning about such things does not make a rose smell less sweet." -Mo

"Once you accept that the bible can contain errors, nothing stops god from being one of those errors." -Grahor

"One can talk to atheists. Fundamentalists, regardless of stripe, are unreachable. They have god on their side, after all." - Marie(MarieSiduri)

"One might almost say that the dawning of a common, albeit not necessarily universal belief in a bunch of mumbo-jumbo is how civilizations are born." -AtheistKeith

"One of the consistent features of the relations between different denominations and indeed different religions is that they nearly all implicitly sign up to the idea that any religion is better than none at all." -Fox

"One of the worst things that I will say about people who are so mean, jerky, or otherwise really awful that I can't think of any other way to express my feelings about them is that I've added them to the list of people who make me wish I was still Christian so I could tell them to go to Hell and actually mean it." -Bascilla

"One school district was told to teach creation science, so they went to add it to their curriculum. They failed to find a single fact about creation science. Apparently half the time is to be spent teaching biology and the other half with their hands over their ears shouting "lalalalalalalalalalalalalalala"." -Tatarize

"Only those who demand Freedom and Liberty are We the People; those who demand universal healthcare are The Enemies of The People. If, say, purely for example, that 97% want universal healthcare and 3% want the Free Market - that means that 3% are The People and 97% are the Enemies of The People. That's how ideology works." - Grahor

"Open your video with some abstracted vaginal image, wrap youself in a rug from Pier One and you too can start your own religion!" -arjaypet

"Over the years many possible purposes for our existence have occurred to me. Trouble has been, I can never think of any good reason to believe that our existence has any purpose." -DougofCal

"Overall, I think "the authorities" would find me to be a nerd. Any agents of the government would probably just give me a wedgie and leave." -Flux

"Painting pictures of zebras with Hawaiian shirts might lead to a cure for herpes, if those stupid scientists would just give it a chance. But nooooooo, they give up after 300 paintings." -Rev. Martini

"People are gay. That alone is enough to make it "natural". I see little value in describing anything as more or less natural. Something may be more or less likely to occur in a given situation but that doesn't make it more or less natural." -rydhi

"People have wrapped themselves in consumer goods and infotainment and superficialities. The real world has started to intrude, and many people have no idea how to deal with it." -Mo

"People need to know that there are upstanding honest atheists with good table manners. If they are uncomfortable with atheists, it gives them a chance to become acquainted with one. However, if you have dirty fingernails and a nasty personality, tell them you are a Jehovah's Witness." - Prismatic

"People SHOULD ALWAYS be willing to be talked out of their beliefs; and if provided with objectively verifiable evidence that those beliefs are erroneous, they SHOULD be willing to abandon those beliefs." -chip

"Polish logicians did a lot of really great work, but they get little credit for it because no one can spell their names." -RH3

"Poor old God, how the mighty are fallen. Many years ago it seemed as though people were claiming God's existence could be proven using circumstantial evidence; "Look at the flowers, aren't they pretty, therefore God exists". Now it seems that more and more it becomes "well, you can't explain quantum theory using Einstein, and Darwin didn't get everything right, therefore God exists". -Tony

"Porn always tells it just like it is. And if your girlfriend comes home and catches you having sex with her sister, her immediate reaction will be to strip off her clothes and join in." -Rillion

"Pride and Prejudice and Zombies angered me because the illustrations had extremely, extremely wrong period clothing." -Mags

"Pride in one's genetic roots is all in one's head, though I can't see why anyone would be proud of being Irish. I mean, I am about half Irish, and look at me." -C12

"Raise the intellectual level of the White House. Elect Miss Teen South Carolina." -RH3

"Realizing God exists can alleviate that empty feeling that makes someone so addicted to chronic masturbation." - Bodhitharta

"Reason cannot be cultured by withdrawing from the ideas of others. It must triumph." -Citizen12

"Reform and other liberal branches of Judaism know that there are female rabbis. Orthodox people know that there are not." -Reyzl(rgstern)

"Religion is a belief "system" like tossing a coin is a betting "system". -freeksngeeks

"Religion is an excuse for extremism and willful ignorance, not a basis for morals." -Kato84

"Religion, like drug addiction, is an unnecessary and harmful add-on. It isn't a matter of filling up some hole. It is like feeding a cancerous tumor." -C12

"Religious language is without factual meaning, but it has the same kind of meaning in human affairs that works of art and the imagination possess." -Prismatic

"Religious skepticism is not a moral failing. You could argue, if you must, that it is an intellectual failing, and I have no problem with that. I have a serious problem, though, with people who think that only reprobates can disagree with them." -DougofCal

"Relying on the stupid people is basically playing to chance, which is obviously better odds than relying on the intelligent people when your case is crap. It is, however, a bad play if your case is solid. Simple game theory." -Darkangel

"Repeat after me, "I will not eat mushrooms that I find in the woods." - Rev. Conor

"S/he/it seems very committed to the biblical universe. I enjoy the insights into primitive peoples as much as anyone. If only we didn't have to worry about their electoral control of nukes." -Nazrani

"Saying you're not planning on firing the first nuke is just reminding the other side that you can." -Mo

"Science has nothing to do with needing a belief. We don't pray to Newton that things keep falling (or to keep them from falling). There is no Altar of Mendeleev, no Mysteries of Einstein, no Gospels according to Darwin, no Temple to Pythagoras, etc." -Seeker

"Scientists are always coming up with their human explanations for the mysteries of God. The three phases of matter exist because there are three phases of God. God, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. God is the solid ice. His commandments are inflexible. Jesus is the water, because his teaching had to flow out among mankind. The Holy Ghost is steam, because ghosts look like steam." -Citizen12

"Scientists at least take the trouble to come up with a new name for every new mystery they discover. They don't keep recycling the same three-letter abbreviation for 'I don't know'." -DougofCal

"Scratch a Fundie lightly and you'll find a nihilist." -Ozy666

"Secular morality leads. The church eventually relents its immoral positions. I can see how that looks like it's rejecting the bad, but it's not. The church rejects the laughable. And secular progress makes those positions laughable. They adopt the mainstream position when it becomes too absurd to not. So eventually they come around, but not because they were ever right about the subject." -Tatarize

"See, everyone? Physics doesn't ruin someone's ability to be hip and funny." -Tanner

"Self discovery, understanding who you (we) are, makes a lot more sense to me than trying to discover and understand an entity who seems rather bent on not revealing himself in any observable form." -Tayana42

"Sexism is weird. I think about it like I think about anti-Semites. Just outdated weird bigotry. Don't they have more modern people to hate?" -Mags

"Should theists or atheists care if yet another symbol is defiled in protest, even if that symbol has no meaning to us? If the Koran or the Bible is just a bunch of words on pages, then does it not follow that the flag is just a colored cloth - both of which are probably made in Taiwan? Are any symbols sacred?" -mymallandnew

"Since atheism has no doctrinal basis and requires no adherence from adherents, you are entirely free to invent or discover your own principles that make your life happier. That is the wonderful thing about being freed from dogmaÂ—you really are free." -Prismatic

"Since baptism involves water, I think debaptism needs to involve fire." -Mags

"Since the sarcasm part of my brain seems to be overdeveloped, I'm going to blame my poor social skills on the environment in general." -RH3

"Skepticism is of far more value than atheism." -C12(Citizen12)

"Slavery has gone out of style in the West now and preachers have changed their tune accordingly. The Bible hasn't changed. It still authorizes slavery." -SusannahHB

"Slavery was very much supported by the Bible. The pious arguments of the south were Biblical arguments. If one were to take all their morality from the Bible, abolitionism might as well have been satanism." - Tatarize

"Slowly, slowly, the world began to come around to accepting science. One by one, religious pronouncements fell to advancing knowledge. Now religionists are saying, "Can't we all just get along?" That's the equivalent of crying "uncle." Religionists are basically suing for peace. It means that science is finally doing well enough that it competes with nonsense." -FrankDK

"slowly, the churches have lost their hold on agriculture, on medicine, on taxes, on marriage, on everything. All it has left is the afterlife, and one day the last priest will prattle to the last worshipper, and it will be gone." -deadwombat

"Smoking that Obama weed will really fvck you up! This isn't nearly as funny as I thought it would be, but that won't stop me from posting it." -BenMcd

"Smooth jazz is neither smooth nor jazz. Discuss." -Qwerty Uiop

"So a true home consists of the woman who's womb was her childrens home from the beginning and the man who placed them in her home". - Bodhitharta

"So God isn't omnipotent after all. He seems to be quite a bungler. If a government contractor made a world and it came out the opposite of the way it was intended, the contractor would be fired. Time to fire your god and get a new one." -FrankDK

"So long as atheism is made to seem like an irrational bizarre position fit only for communists and idiots who think we're monkeys then Christian children are safe from the war of ideas." -Tatarize

"So to 'obey god', all I need to do is not violate the laws of nature. Which, really, is quite easy - since I've found it to be impossible to violate the laws of nature. Gravity keeps doing the gravity thing, electromagnetism keeps doing the electromagnetism thing, weak force keeps doing the weak force thing, strong force keeps doing the strong force thing, quantum mechanics keeps doing the whatever-the-heck-quantum-mechanics-is thing." - Eljay

"So to you, a sign of love isn't, for instance, saying to the person you love, "I forgive your bad deeds, because I love you. It's OKay. A sign of love would be saying, "I love you, but because you did something wrong I have to kill you. But because I love you SO much, I'll kill someone else instead." - mrbehemoth

"So, no, we don't "stone them out of love" We love them so they won't be stoned." - Bodhidartha

"So, what drives this atheist? All sorts of stuff. Love for my wife. An insatiable thirst for knowledge. A desire to live not extravagantly but comfortably. And perhaps to make the world a better place through contributing to the spread of reason, science and logic. These are MY purposes in life." -Dreamer-71

"So, what you're saying is, the real reason we have swear words and consider some words obscene is so that those of us who don't have Tourette's can have a greater appreciation for those who do? Works for me; afterall, who wants to be in some high society polite company situation and have to observe some twitchy bastard continually barking out the word "chair"? -Nota

"Some days I think I'd like to be religious, if only because there are things I'd like to be able to thank a god for. The Microsoft Word/About forum bug, for example." - RevDave

"Some doctrines do place women in arrears and there are some Islam beliefs that belive women should have a clitioral-dychtomy." - Ginger09 (Christian)

"Some people call me Jesus, but only on my coke-donkey trips to Mexico." -mrbehemoth

"Somehow we turned a page somewhere in the last century where people think a hundred year old + vampire going out with a girl in high school is totally non creepy." -DarkAngel

"Someone give me an idea for a memorable quote, so I can take it." -Tanner

"Sometimes talking with you reminds me of trying to nail jello to a wall. First, when you think you have it pinned down it jiggles away, then you wonder why the hell you're even trying to do this." - Tatarize

"Sorry, but that is how atheists live their lives...eating, pooping and try as you may they cannot understand spiritual things, it just sounds like a noisy bell to them." -Bodhitharta

"Sorry, I don't go in for this touchy-feely crap. You want to judge my beliefs, go ahead. I have nothing to be ashamed of as far as my beliefs go. Everyone is entitled to have their beliefs, but that does not mean they are entitled to be free from criticism of their beliefs." -Tony

"Sorry, I've hit a political bottom of cynicism. Everything looks hopeless from where I sit. I don't even care that much anymore. I should be worried about the fact that I don't care, but I don't care about that either." -Tayana42

"Speaking of abstinence, maybe we could ask all the Catholics to abstain from having any more kids. Just what the world needs: more papist- pap-regurgitating godnuts who think birth control is a sin in a world where 6 billion clueless breeding bipeds are chewing up the planet and spitting it out in each other's faces. I used to blame the priests, but, Hell, lots of them started as altar boys and they just sort of got sucked into it. I kid because I love." -Crosshatch

"Spirituality" is one of those concepts that gets bandied about so often by people who want to avoid having their off the wall ideas associated with the off the wall ideas of organized religion, and is used to mean so many different things that it has become virtually meaningless in itself." -Tony

"Spontaneity is absolutely impossible without meticulous preparation." -mrbehemoth

"Stupid camping mistakes are evolution's way of weeding out the stupid campers." -Flux

"Such is the human condition. Having enlightened ourselves as much as possible, we can do no more. But what we can do, if nothing else, is admit the conflict between what we know and what we feel." - DougofCal

"Sufficiently advanced ineffability is indistinguishable from non-existence." -Yoghurt (Vaxholm)

"Teaching creationism as science would also be fun. Showing children how to apply scientific principles to problem solving is best done with familiar yet easily disposed of theories." -JK234

"Tell you what. You want us to believe in your god. Pray that starting today at midnight, no more people would die in the wars in the middle east. What could be simpler? Then, when that happens, we'll know that your god exists, and that you are a believer. If it doesn't happen, either your god is a phony, or you are." -FrankDK

"Thank you for informing us that you do not let your admitted ignorance get in the way of forming your opinions. This admission allows those reading your posts to accord them all the value they deserve." -chip

"Thankfully, wit is not a zero-sum game." -Meow

"That you even think you make an argument leads me to believe you're one of those cranky, jealous philosophers who wished you'd made room for at least a couple science classes in between your mind-expanding adventures involving sugar cubes and brownies." -jqhiggins

"That's a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Except in this case, the kettle is stainless steel, and the pot is a lonely black moron." -Psykomakia

"That's a terribly big word. If you have progressed far enough to use such big words, perhaps now you can go back and see if you're capable of reading that which exceeded your abilities earlier." -mrbehemoth

"That's all good and well, but I still say gay fruit flies should not be allowed to adopt maggots or lead Scout troops." -Mrreindeer

"That's my view on real life matters too. Don't ban books or ideas, ridicule them in the extreme. Do not allow them the way of darkness and subterfuge." - Simanos

"That's time travel for you. It's weird. It is weird, it was weird and it always will be weird, though not necessarily in that order." -RevDave

"That's what I say. Based on average life expectancy and what I have read about the effects of global warming, I should die just about the time the water reaches my ankles." -Tony

"That's what so many of these apologists don't get. They go on and on trying to "prove" Josephus wrote the TF, or that Nazareth actually existed in the first century, or that Hitler wasn't a Christian or... As if, if we just got those details "right", we would have to be Christians. Interesting to cross swords over, sure. Totally irrelevant to the existence or non-existence of God." -SusannahHB

"That's why I post - not to change your mind but to refine my mind." -mymallandnew

"The (putative) existence of a vague desire for some sort of relationship does not imply the existence of a being with whom to have that relationship, let alone one greater than ourselves." -RH3

"The ability to inspire, whatever the Hell that means, is apparently a desireable trait, even if people don't have a clue why it is they are inspired, or what they are inspired about." -Tayana42

"The acid or lithmus-test of an ethical system consists - for me, at least - in our willingness to live by its rules, find them sensible for my life and open to public discourse and political debate, not in our ability to accept what has been handed down by our forefathers and our ability to train our children in it before they can even develop their own independent judgment. Some ethical systems survive by procreation. I do not like them." -Empiricus

"The assumption here appears to be that the many people in question opposed the Holocaust. What is the basis for the assumption? Without that assumption I think that something more opposite is likely true: The Holocaust happened because many strong-willed people overcame their natural sympathies for their fellows, sacrificed their civility, and did horrible things because they thought it was right." -BeelzehostAA

"The attempt to redefine "God" or whatever, as "everything" or as Tillich has it, "the ground of all being" is the last refuge of the theologian who recognises the embarrassment of belief in a god defined in such crude and unbelievable terms as those used in the Bible or Koran but wants to continue to have his "subject" taken seriously." -Fox

"The attitudes behind it are the real problem I think. If people didn't consider it distracting, slutty and immoral to wear short skirts or show your ankles, if society didn't assume that it's a struggle for men to contain themselves...then who would decide to wear a burka?" -Mags

"The Baha'i faith is like different grade levels of a school, you progress through them all just to find out in the end that the school is not accredited." -Tatarize

"The best thing about plants is, when they die, they're already half-buried." -MrReindeer

"The best way to get rid of rabbits is to confuse them, and the best way to confuse them is to plant clumps of updock around the place." - RH3

"The bible cites cases of those who've seen God. The bible makes it clear that they did not see "spatio-temporal representations of God" - they saw God, Himself. The Male God, Jehovah - who cannot be seen. The omnipotent one who was helpless against iron chariots. The omniscient one who didn't know where Adam and Eve were hiding. The Very Embodiment of Truth, who lied to Adam and Eve. The Merciful God who turned an old lady into a pillar of salt for the high crime of taking one last look at the only home she'd ever known and was being forced to flee to escape His Holy Wrath. The Bringer of Peace, who demands that his followers bathe in Blood."-chip

"The Bible does mention unicorns and giants. But, no. No dinosaurs..." -Tatarize

"The Bible is a great source of comfort for those who have not read it." -Eljay

"The Bible says that the universe was created out of a cosmic ocean and that a hard dome structure protects us and that the gods spent the entire second day building it and a large amount of the fourth day adding bling to the firmament. Christians are allowed to read that out of the Bible and say it doesn't say that, because it seems silly enough that we don't accept it. But when it says in no uncertain terms that you may possess another human being as property there's not enough wiggle room to get out of that." -Tatarize

"The bible, just like all other religious writings, is nothing more than the result of human wishing, fantasy and occasional mushroom-induced hallucinations." -Seeker

"The body of Christ tastes a little better with the strawberry jam of Christ on it." -Eljay

"The Catholic traditions really helped me overcome it all, in the end. Because they are so uniform, and I am so bullheaded, it finally got to me that I was just following along like a sheep. Those same beliefs made me a raging bigot for a number of years, which I gradually overcame by realizing I was a douche." -djfoxwvqs

"The culture-dependency of near-death experiences told speak for themselves - appearances of angels or Mother Mary for the Xians, mythical beasts for the Hindu, boddhisatvas for the (Mahayana) Buddhists, and relief and darkness for the atheist." -Empiricus

"The danger is in embracing irrational beliefs by building an edifice of superstition on a foundation of ignorance." -Eljay

"The day someone becomes a Christian without ever having met a Christian, seen a church, or heard of the Bible, I might start thinking there's something to it. Same applies to all other religions, of course." -mrbehemoth

"The difference between science and religion: science re-interprets dogma in light of new data, religion re-interprets new data in light of dogma." -Zontor

"The easiest way to find a purpose in life is to buy one of the ready-made one-size-fits-all guaranteed-for-life purposes for sale by religious sects or political groups. Many people find these very satisfactory and have no need of anything else. More discriminating people look for tailor-made purposes cut to their life situation and their talents. These are generally of higher quality and more stylish. Best of all perhaps are those one-of-a-kind home-made self-designed purposes. They are the most individualistic, but they take a lot of time and effort." -Prismatic

"The fact that Christ was the blood sacrifice just goes to prove the point that it's about blood sacrifice. Saying that Jesus was the blood sacrifice to end all blood sacrifices is really just showing that at the core of Christianity is blood sacrifice." -Tatarize

"The fact that some people accept the myth of two childish, innocent dimwits in a fancy garden of everlasting happiness and pointlessness, written by some ancient goat-herders, as the most likely origin of humanity, instead of accepting one of the most elegant and best supported explanations science has to offer, perfectly demonstrates that evolution is more "concerned" with "creating" species that are able to survive, rather than those that are most intelligent and rational." -Skaryon

"The fact that such uncertainty is not merely possible but intellectually justified suggests that Christianity is not the sort of thing we would expect from God." -RH3

"The fact that you cannot discern the sense of what I am saying is not necessarily an indication as to whether I am making any or not." -mrbehemoth

"The fear of punishment is what keeps the religion strong and influential over the simple minded people. Religion is a tool to control people and bend them, through fear, to the will of those in power." -lahatte

"The fittest do not necessarily survive and the weakest do not necessarily perish. But that is the way I bet." -GonzoHost

"The human experience transcends all culture. Culture is what your particular tribe does to deal with that experience. All humans are born, experience adolescence, mate, rear ungrateful children, experience illness and eventual death. Every culture has rituals and celebrations surrounding those experiences." -meow

"The I.D. group makes itself a laughing stock. Trouble is, not enough people get the joke." -Marie Siduri

"The idea that our species of primate - that's only been in existence for a couple of hundred thousand of the thirteen billion years or so since the formation of the universe - is so pivotal to the alleged creator of the cosmos that he's created billions of galaxies with billions of stars in each merely as wallpaper for our enjoyment is one of the least humble suppositions I've ever encountered." -Mo

"The idea that the J/C/I god made people so he could have love is like a teen girl having a baby for the same reason." -apmom1266

"The juvenile sea squirt wanders through the sea searching for a suitable rock or hunk of coral to cling to and make its home for life. For this task it has a rudimentary nervous system. When it finds its spot and takes root, it doesn't need its brain any more so it eats it. It's rather like getting tenure." -RH3

"The lady who crashed into the tail-end of my car recently when I was standing in line before a red light did so because, as she said, she was watching the car waiting on her right side, saw it start and move forward. She followed suit without thinking about that lane being a turn-off lane where another smaller red light had switched to green while ours on our lane stayed red. The value of such physical lessons is sometimes overlooked by those dealing with the traffic of arguments. Not all lanes of argumentative debates are lanes of solid logical thinking. some take you sideways." -Georg (Empiricus)

"The lyrics of Gilligan's Island aren't worthless. They teach us to avoid three hour tours, three hour tours." -Tatarize

"The Meaning of Life is to evolve to the point where the organism develops the cognitive capacity to ask the question "What is the Meaning of Life"? For non-sapient organisms, the Meaning of Life is to live a meaningless life." -Eljay

"The metaphor that I came up with for this is that religion (or at least the theology part) is like doodling sea-monsters in the blank spots on ancient maps. It's harmless fun as long as no one actually takes it seriously." -Keepwe

"The more words you use to argue a simple concept, the more chances you have to hide an important fallacy in verbiage, and convince yourself and others that it is logical." -Tayana42

"The most insidious form of discrimination which undermines the very core of modern thinking is to make politically incorrect jokes about those who are trying to be politically correct." -Tayana

"The only "white lies" allowed in a family are what people are giving each other for Christmas, and telling Auntie Em she looks much better today. Not that your father is Satan's interpreter, and you will go to hell for listening to him." -Meow

"The only angel I believe in is angel food cake, and the only miracle I believe in is miracle whip. Not because I like those items, but because I know they exist." -Curtt

"The only place creationism (or creationist ideas) has in the classroom is as an example of how far people will go to defend a cherished idea in the face of the facts." - Fluffy666

"The only reason why you can't prove God's non-existence to a believer is because, by assuming the existence of the supernatural, he has rejected the only existing tool of provability - reason." -FirstCowboy

"The only time I wouldn't want to die is after saying "God if you exist, strike me dead!" Which I have done from time to time in religious arguments. I can easily come to terms with death, But whoever I would be arguing with at the time would take that as proof of God. That I wouldn't like And, being dead, I wouldn't be able to argue that my death was just very coincidental." -Tatarize

"The Papacy is like the British Secret Service. If you manage to get rid of 007, 008 will just take his place and continue the mission". -Gonzo

"The prime function of this forum is to give pedantic smart-asses like us a place to criticize the lower orders." -RH3

"The problem is, I read Mark 16:18, and there the Holy Scripture has it that a believer can handle poisonous snakes, drink poisonous fluids, and heal the sick. Try as I might, I don't think I can pull this stuff off. So I picture a real faithful believer like yourself, while in your car driving to the nearest hospital to cure all those patients, has a cobra crawling up one arm and quaffing down a pint of Drano with the other, showing that the Holy Scriptures are indeed accurate." -JQHiggins

"The problem with moderate Christians (or moderate Muslims for that matter) is they seem to cut the fundamentalists of their own faith some slack, probably out of some feeling of brotherhood. ItÂ’s dangerous, in my opinion, because it quietly gives credibility to some fanatical beliefs which run contrary to the good of society." -Tayana42

"The problem with things having rational explanations is you have to be rational to find them. Without this prerequisite we get aliens, demons, gods and ghosts." -Tatarize

"The reason why we can apply logic to politics or sports and come up with valid understandings but fail with theology is not because the Emperor's gown is so exquisite that it defies our reasoning and perception, but because it isn't there." -Tatarize

"The reason why you're not seeing any of those is that it's an unstable state, like some rare particles you can only see in particle accelerators. You can have a theist of semi-coherent thinking in a vaccuum, but as soon as it is exposed to the Internet (thus, information), it collapses either into incoherent thinking or into an atheist." -DarkAngel

"The religious are humanity's ball-and-chain." -Citizen12

"The same nature that produces a beautiful butterfly also produces an ugly engorged deer tick. If beauty is evidence of a higher power, then ugliness surely must be counter evidence." -Ozy666

"The sexes have two different purposes but they are equal in effect. Women are treasured more than men and that's why men are overseers of women." - Bodhitharta

"The simplified theology of Protestant fundamentalism is just like American fast-food: pre-digested, not a lot to chew, lacking in nutrition, leaving you hungry for more, and of course, it's very, very bad for you." -Mo

"The theist's life is that of cattle, all grazing along waiting for slaughter and deluding themselves that the Farmer keeps them around because he loves them (in anything else than BBQ sauce)." -DarkAngel

"The theists (figuratively) shoot themselves in the head, never mind the foot, all the time. The trouble is, they don't feel any pain and compliment each other on the improved ventilation." - Powers

"The type of dancing I do (and places I hang in), if nobody gets a fist in the face by accident during the whole night then that means the band was boring." -DarkAngel

"The Vatican is just practicing the first rule of amateur tap dancing: wave your hands a lot and they won't notice you're not doing much with your feet." -Prismatic

"The virtue of honesty is highly overrated in any discourse with a delusional person." -JQ HIGGINS

"The whole bible is stories, just ink on a page. If you choose to base your life on it and your arcane analysis of "holy" scripture, then I'll take the yellow pages. My local butcher actually has relevance to my life unlike the mythical figures of your fairy stories." -freeksngeeks

"There are many definitions to the word 'truth'. The truth I mean is what conforms to reality. And one of my core beliefs is that I should in every way I can, make sure my beliefs are as close to conforming to reality, to being true, as I can." -MaxHarper

"There are plenty of nutjobs, and they're not all Christians; similarly there are plenty of Christians, and they're not all nutjobs. What cannot be denied, though, is there is a sizeable overlap between the two groups." -RevDave

"There are too many dubious characters arriving in Australia these days. Anyway, seeing them swinging from the lamposts will encourage the rest of the populace to take education seriously." -RH3

"There is a difference between skepticism based on knowledge, and skepticism based on ignorance." -Ozy666

"There is a lot of really good music in opera, but you can hardly hear it because of all the fat people screaming." - RH3

"There is a move to teach both creationism and evolution and to let the student decide. But no one wants to teach high schoolers tantric sex techniques and abstinence at the same time to let them decide." -MSiduri

"There is no evidence for intelligent design. None. The nearest any IDer has come to providing any is pointing to something and saying it "looks" designed, whatever that means. That's about as scientific as looking at clouds and saying, "Ooh, look! A horsie! And there's a bunny and a choo-choo train!" -Rev Dave

"There is no point to the universe. It just is. Same with life and death. They don't need capital letters for me, they just are. And, since I have life, I am going to enjoy it as much as I can without hurting others." -Mags

"There is nothing good in blind belief. At least liberal christians are trying to create a more or less decent god, one you can show your neighbours without too much embarassment." -Grahor

"There is nothing wrong with not knowing. There is nothing wrong with doubt. Belief on faith alone is not the virtue Christians say it is. It is intellectually honest to remain neutral in the face of unanswerable questions. Believing in the absurd on faith is irresponsible." -Tayana42

"There is still a lot we don't know, but with a long history of man finding the answers to things that once were attributed to a god, it would be a safe bet that today's questions will one day be answered with rational explanations instead of theological ones." -apostateofthelord

"There may be some ultimate truths out there, but neither the theist nor the scientist can know what they are, although sometimes in our need to explain things we confuse what we believe with what we know, and at some higher level of obfuscation we confuse either what we believe or what we know with truth. Given our limitations, I even wonder if truth is relevant." -easyD2

"There was a time when I never thought I would write that a country was better off when it was run by a brutal, repressive, murderous, war-mongering, CIA-sponsored, paranoid, thug." -RH3

"There was Dawson's Creek several years ago. Jen was an atheist. Nothing ever went right for her and she ended up dying of cancer." -Tatarize

"There was nothing wrong with those sentences. Your brain is structurally poor." -BenMcD

"There you go again, putting the words "fundy" and "read" in the same sentence." -RH3

"There's a difference between an "argumentum ad hominem" and a simple insult. The former is a logical fallacy, the latter is often merely satisfying." -Ozy666

"There's a difference between having a "right" and doing the right thing. People have the right to be bigoted and discriminatory in many situations...that doesn't mean others shouldn't condemn them for it." -Ozy666

"There's nothing wrong with saying "I don't know," but that's not what they're doing-- they're saying you can't know, because the answer lies in some privileged supernatural order. Bullhocky. Miracles are coincidences that you make personal." Rillion

"These 'values' that are 'promoted' transcend christianity or any dogmatic literature. Sometimes the right thing to do is just the right thing to do. No dogma necessary." -lahatte

"These things are simply not immoral, your disbelief is immoral. And Yes, Slapping your own parent warrants death." -Bodhitharta

"They are right, I admit it. I really believe in god, but he just pisses me off so much, I've put him on Ignore til he starts behaving himself. Sort of a cosmic Time-Out." -Meow

"They've (the KKK) had a marketing makeover. They're called The Tea Party now." -Eljay

"This forum is an ongoing work of art, reason, wisdom and civility, after all. To destroy its content would be akin to burning the Library of Alexandria!" -Mo

"This has been another installment of Logical Fallacy Theatre, brought to you by the Slippery Slope, the Argumentum ad Absurdum, and a grant from the Non Sequitur Foundation. Thank you, and good night. <cue theme music>" - Flux

"This is not the first time I have almost died by taking an antacid incorrectly." -Deadwombat

"This is one of the immoral doctrines Christianity has promoted. The notion that everyone is guilty of a sin in which they had no choice or intention is an evil notion and shows the corrupt nature of Christian faith." -Prismatic

"This is the defense mechanism of your religious meme at work. Without it, you'd understand that the reason we don't see God is because ALL the objectively verifiable evidence suggests that no God exists. But since your religious meme 'wants' to protect and reproduce itself, you are forced by it to conclude that all the objectively verifiable evidence is wrong and that, instead, your subjective beliefs not only trump reality, but everyone else's beliefs too." -chip

"This just in: Bush is a dick and a dumbass. Also, everyone should pretend to convert to Islam to see what would happen. That would be entertaining. What would you do, Osama? What wouuuuld you do?" -Mags

"This latest action by Israel is purely out of the South Africa Apartheid book. South Africa had no more right to keep South Africa 'white' and disenfranchise blacks as Israel does to keep itself 'Jewish' and disenfranchise Arabs." -Simon

"This whole thread has descended into pornographic pictures, discussions about sex, and plans to destroy the universe." -RH3

"Those of us who have stepped beyond such plebeian definitions understand full well that the nature of the god proposed by Christians is one of evil, pure and simple. Now, if you want to say that an all-powerful evil entity can "redefine" his evil as good, you're more than welcome to try and make that argument." -Ozy666

"Three Cheung's in one thread! The technique is simple. Never reply to your opponent's points of view, but challenge his basis for knowing anything at all. Tell him his reasoning is self-refuting and nonsensical. He will get sucked into defending his reasoning and you never have to deal with his points." -Prismatic

"Time heals all wounds. But, of course it's 100% fatal so it's not much of a cure." -Tatarize

"To find an orientation point in all the GOP, tea party, birther, Democratic stew today, I found the Johnny Depp "Alice In Wonderland" movie on HBO and watched the whole thing through. Now I feel as though I can get a grasp on what's going on." -Rozmarija

"To me, religions and beliefs in gods is more likely to be wishful thinking by fearful, superstitious and primitive people than it is to be truth. More like "Well, that is a bunch of nonsense." rather than "I deny those beliefs with my own beliefs!" - Readzalot

"To me, the moral simply is, If you donÂ’t like these things, quit making war or stop acting like itÂ’s all about bravery, patriotism, and heroism. War is about suffering, fear, greed, and the ultimate human degradation.Â” -EasyD2

"To search for and know the truth is the closest I get to what some may call a spiritual path. That's why I read and listen; I take language courses so I can read more and listen to more people. I travel and see as much of the world as possible. I do all this just for the joy of knowledge. Life is its own purpose. We don't have to hunt for a reason to justify our existence." -apostateofthelord

"To speak of faith, then, is to speak of nothing substantial. One who says "I believe because of faith" only says "I believe because I believe." Believers typically seem to mean nothing more, except for the few who will admit that for them, faith means never having to say you were wrong." -DougofCal

"Trying to prove god with the bible is like trying to prove Superman with a comic book." -Robgene

"Turning theist is like embarking on Gullible's Travels." -Rev.Martini

"Uncritical Biblical scholarship is like a bunch of "Dungeons and Dragons" geeks discussing the exact parameters of Level 5 Wizard powers." -GonzoHost

"Underneath this is a great fear of the doubt and skepticism that atheism represents: the denial of their cherished realities. They are afraid that if one person can doubt (after all the convincing evidence they have assembled), then there might be a crack in the foundation that will bring down the whole edifice."- Prismatic

"Usually its the theists who come here with room temperature IQs. Lately we've had some atheists who I wouldn't mind seeing acquire a god belief." -curtt

"We all die, and Jesus would have died anyway, but no, there has to be this horrid story about a sacrificial bloodletting of an innocent man. I'd be just as happy if he would have simply died in his sleep at the age of 85 and pronounced us all forgiven before he went to bed." -Tayana42

"We all have an invisible tattoo of a helicopter on our left butt cheek, which can only be seen using black light. So if you can get Simon Cowell naked in a dark room, you can find out for sure if he's an atheist without actually asking him." -Rillion

"We can discuss people who have these visions. We can try to figure out why we are in such awe when they express those visions with oil on canvas and why when they verbalize those visions we tend to move to the other side of the room." -CarquinezRed

"We determine the true religion using guidelines laid down by the founder of one of them? That doesn't seem like kind of a rigged game to you?" -MrBehemoth

"We just get angry at the thought of non-atheists of a certain type entering our little atheist club. Like the white trash at the Balmy Beach Club taking umbrage at a brain-damaged orangutan stumbling into the dining room and vomiting in their soup." -mrbehemoth

"We make God in our own image. And I have just a big enough ego that I can be turned on by that. Especially since I don't look like a hippo/possum/snake/scooby-doo thing." -Saurian200

"We'd eat a vegetarian? I'm in! The irony would be... delicious." -Flux

"We've seen Jindal's type here many times: people who insist on assigning attributes and characteristics to atheists and atheism which bear no connection to reality. They seem unable to understand that all of atheism is contained in one simple sentence: I don't believe in God. There's nothing else, but of course that would make a very short article, so it's necessary to insert a bit of padding." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"Well, he have a point. It can't be denied, that Steve Irwin actively asked for it. While any loss of life is a tragedy, of sorts, some tragedies are just less equal than others." -Grahor

"Well, I am a pro-life atheist, so that ought to make your head explode." -AtheistKeith

"Well, I suppose we shouldn't expect more from people who trained from early childhood to ignore cognitive dissonance. "God loves all mankind and he sent a great flood to drown them." "Our god is a loving god, and he will send you to hell to suffer for all eternity if you don't believe it." -Citizen12

"Well, if nuts sprinkled on a turd is your idea of a banana split, then the Republican Party is a banana split." -curtt

"Well, lah-dee-dah! All of a sudden I have to start wearing pants? When did this place get so posh?" -Flux

"Well, Lo, I don't loathe puns. It's just when SnoopyLucy gets on one of her tears she goes at it with all the fervor of an evangelist missionary who's trying to convert a bunch of naked pygmies." -ptcarnahan

"Well, since no theistic philosophy could ever possibly endorse naughty deeds, any naughty deeds are obviously the result of atheistic philosophy by definition." -mrbehemoth

"Well, that sucks. What's the point of being a physicist if you don't get to bash things into each other at near-light speeds?" - Seth

"Were I King of the World, I'd decree that churches must abide by truth-in-advertising laws. Given that I am not, I shall sit idly by, dismayed that the mind of the world has rarely had more than a nodding aquaintance with reason." - chip

"What I am getting at here is that you didn't choose a faith because some god told you to. No god has ever told anyone anything. You chose a faith because you have some need to hold some belief and christianity seems to have been convenient for you." -lahatte

"What I am saying is that despite the increasing opportunities to cry out loud that our political and religious leaders so "generously" provide for us, there remains enough wonder in the world that scepticism need never dampen one's ability to enjoy the truly sublime and beautiful." -Fox

"What if we don't want free will? God gives it to us anyway. By forcing us to have free will, isn't he taking our free will away from us? Therefore we have no free will. God needs a spanking." -Rev.Conor

"What is your native language. Is it tongues?" -Shawwanossoway

"What kind of crap is this forced pledge recital anyway? For a pledge to have value, it must be taken freely." -Yoghurt

"What planet did this guy stick his head up his ass on?" -Tony

"What the several writers who wrote about Jesus wrote [was] a variation of the truth known as a lie". - Eljay

"When Adams "womb" was placed in EVE she became a "Wombed" Man i.e. woman. Mankind is composed of Males (without wombs) and Females (with wombs). They are both a kind of Man, hence the term Mankind." -Bodhitharta

"When dealing with someone who thinks a circular argument is logical, one can expect the conversation to travel as far as a horse on a carousel." -AtheistKeith

"When did our society become so stupid that they can't understand fractional dimensions?" -Dingo

"When I left the Catholic church I was determined to make my own life choices, not have them dictated for me. They weren't perfect. Some things worked out well, others didn't. But I wouldn't trade the freedom to make those choices for anything, even if I might have done some things differently." -SusanL12

"When it comes to their religion, theists tend to think in sound bites rather than in an organized way that requires thoughtful analysis, and I donÂ’t do well with sound bites. Anything worth thinking about requires more time and thought for me to involve myself with." -Tayana42

"When life gives you lemons, smash the lemons with your heel, go eat a bunch of expensive candy and laugh at semi-literate creationists on this forum who try to "debunk" evolution." -AtheistKeith

"When tempered with wisdom and experience, I don't see religiosity as being a necessarily bad thing. Organized religion, however, hijacks and corrupts religiosity. Organized religion is to religiosity what cancer is to cell division." -AtheistKeith

"When we bomb a country back to the stone age, we aren't really in a position to complain when stone age ideologies emerge." -Mark Boyd

"When you get arrested coming out of a gay bar and it makes all the news stations, that isn't coming out of the closet. It's getting thrown out of the closet." -Tony

"When you make statements that are just opinions and expect them to be respected as facts, you're going to be very disappointed." -KayKay

"Whenever possible, I always tick the "Other" box on forms, no matter what the question might be. I also put postage stamps on sideways, but that's a different matter, I suppose." -Superhop

"Whenever the question of religion and science comes up, people always look like morons or atheists. We atheists don't have a problem with it, and neither do the morons." -Tatarize

"Where a bear of very little brain who can't tell a logical argument from a bowl of petunias notices only that whenever he argues he gets verbal abuse, which he takes to mean that he must be one of the persecuted righteous and so must be doing something right." -Keepwe

"Whether it's a formula, a worldview or an hypothesis, Occam's Razor will provide you with the closest shave you've ever seen! Say NO to factors that don't factor. Eliminate unrated ratios. A clean explanation is the hallmark of a clean mind!" -Seeker

"Whether or not I'm happy with what I believe is irrelevant. My beliefs are not and cannot be determined by what would make me happy. My beliefs are determined by what I can justify." - Seth351

"Whether or not someone can call themselves "Jewish" seems to me to be so insignificant, it's hardly worth mentioning. And to reach a conclusion regarding the issue by trying to decipher the written and oral traditions of folks that have been dead for thousands of years is weird at best. Everyone needs a hobby, I guess." -Saint Bengel

"While it is a lie, and I think lies are, as a rule, bad, the worst part of a lie is the disrepect it shows those you tell them to. If the disrespect is intended, then go for it." -vaxholm

"While oatmeal might help lower your cholesterol, I don't think I'd recommend allowing it to saturate your head any longer." -elmeraho

"Who won? The terrorists on both sides. In Lebanon, Hezbollah came out looking like protectors and rebuilders, while Israel comes across as the oppressor, targeting civilians. In Israel the warmongers came out looking strong, no-nonsense, you-hit-us-we-kill-you leaders. It's a victory for violence." - Aspie

"Why believe any of it? You are just picking and choosing the bits that fit in with your world view. It is not that the Bible informs your world view, it is that your world view determines which parts of the Bible you will accept as being believable." - Goldblock

"Why human sacrifice? Because humans are a more worthy sacrifice than any amount of animals. The religions are ego-filled but not humanitarian." -Tatarize

"Why is it invariably the ill-versed in science that feel the most qualified to judge good science from bad? Never mind, I think I just answered my own question." -Flux

"Winning a Nobel Prize does not make one's position on a non-related subject any stronger. This is just an argument from authority fallacy, with the Nobel Prize Committee acting as the authority." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"Wishful thinking does not constitute evidence. Faith does not constitute evidence. Irrational belief does not constitute evidence. Anecdote, hearsay, and rumor does not constitute evidence. Untenable authoritarian dogma does not constitute evidence. Lack of reason, damaged critical thinking, and lack of logic is not a substitute for evidence." -Eljay

"With prayer, when things didn't go my way, I had to conjure up some excuse as to why the prayer magic didn't work. I must have been at fault somehow, surely. Now that I accept the fact that there is no prayer magic to be activated, I don't have to worry about the magic. Now I can expend my energies on trying to do what I can to make things better instead of expending my energies on trying to figure out why the magic didn't work." -AtheistKeith

"Wow, damnation without relief. That's pretty shitty." - Best Peasant

"Wow, that post was like a concerto of stupid, played on the insanophone." -mrbehemoth

"Yeah, at least sex, while observed from the outside, can make you laugh." -Grahor

"Yep, women and Religion. Go figure! You'd think they'd be at the forefront of leading us away from it toward something where you can be kind and decent and marvel at Life minus the hocus pocus. Then again, they bought millions of Thigh Masters." -Crosshatch

"Yes, there's a reason why both "psi" researchers and creationists/ID proponents have to publish in their own respective journals -- because they've failed the criteria needed to be taken seriously by real science." -Flux55

"You always hear about how fat Americans have gotten, but when the camera pans across the crowd at Wimbledon.... it's good to have widescreen." -Twsh

"You are a breathtaking paragon of unintentional irony." -Ibn Tumart

"You are confusing forced slavery with voluntary slavery." - Boditharta

"You are too easily impressed if you think, 'Define your god specifically, and present actual evidence for its existence', is a highly sophisticated critique." -Tenpin3

"You can just thank the Holy Elmer the Chrisians have lost their heretic-burning privileges or you'd be toast." -TSShagnasty

"You cannot be offered your life in enchange for a choice and still call it free. The cosmic rapist cannot rape me and still say he loves me by offering me a choice, his way or hell." -Iconoclast

"You chicks always think we're being condescending. But we really just think you're doing a great job with all those big hard science words, and you look cute with a test tube." -mrbehemoth

"You don't like the label? Tough, because I shall continue to categorize you as religious. I have no better classification for the sort of supernatural, zero evidence beliefs that you seem to have." - Nazrani

"You have to appreciate that on this forum a thread about "Hitler and Christianity" can end up discussing broccoli and dogs." -Saint Bengel

"You know a stance is truly stupid when, to make fun of it, you need only quote it." -Atheist Keith

"You know I tried being original but I found there are already so many original people around here, I just became one of the crowd." -arjaypet

"You know you're a geek when science mistakes in movie previews nearly kill you." -BenMcD

"You know, I was tempted to answer that, but that would propel my geekhood into the stratosphere so I'll just pretend I have no idea." -Ibn Tumart

"You know, that adorable sig pic is the only thing that keeps your posts from being a complete waste of bandwidth." -Queen Maeve

"You know, they just don't make ape-shite netloonies like they used to." -Mo

"You lost. You lost miserably. It was the most embarrassing defeat since your parents tried to raise a sentient being." -mrbehemoth

"You may not be stupid, but you certainly do a flawless impersonation." -DeadWombat

"You must be one of those transitional humans the evolutionists are always talking about. Not quite ape... but close." - Twsh

"You must learn to express yourself in ways people can understand. It is essential for you to learn this so that you can earn a living when you flunk out of college." -freeksngeeks

"You need to learn the Way of the Wombat. Be cynical, be untrusting. You spend your life being pleasantly surprised or being proved correct. There is no downside." -DeadWombat

"You never see a weapon with a smiley face on it. There's a reason for that." -SnoopyLucy

"You seem to want to debate a deity, when I just want to perpetuate a truth." -Ginger09 (Christian)

"You should probably deal with the real problems of our world instead of those imposed by your own ignorance and bigotry. But then again, that wouldn't be very christian of you, would it? " -Skaryon

"You should really emit a beeping sound, what with all that back-pedaling." -Flux55

"You want to relieve suffering? Take all the vast amounts of time, money, and resources that are wasted worshipping delusions, building expensive edifices to the glory of illusions, paying salaries for the shills of illusions, and providing expensive baubles for the purveyors of illusions and turn it to bettering the lot of mankind." -NonProphet

"You're probably familiar with the saying "Trying to get Atheists to agree is like trying to hurt cats. Although I don't know why anyone would want to hurt cats......well, besides the obvious." - nota

"You've made it waaay too complicated. Just don't seethe a goat in its mother's milk and you'll be fine. All that other stuff is out-of-date nonsense and allegory." -MrBunny2

"Your freedom to be an artist is guaranteed by the society in which you live, and to which you have a moral duty to contribute to in a positive way. Pay your taxes and stop whining." -Superhop

"Your mistake, Sinnecul, is that you are trying to persuade me with the facts." -John76

"Your understanding is dictated by your dogma, not reality. The question of *how* to think with it is irrelevant. Faith is not a way of thinking. It is a way to avoid thinking." -DougofCal

"Zealots need absolute certainty. Reasonable people accept and work with varying degrees of uncertainty, knowing that that is how the universe works." -Flux

"Zombies, after all, are the result of an experimental virus that was released accidentally from a government lab. That's science. Vampires are just myths." -Tony

User:Tatarize

2011-09-15T21:22:23Z

Tatarize:

"'Jesus lived a long, healthy and happy life and passed away peacefully in his sleep for your sins' doesn't have the same ring to it..." -RevDave

"(It's called a bombing "campaign") Because there are a number of bombings over an extended period of time, presumably intended to change public opinion for a political end. It's like an election campaign, but by more humane means." -RH3

"(shrug) I just don't understand all this arguing about what color, mass and composition of the elephant's dandruff is when there's NO FREAKING ELEPHANT." -chip

"[Bush] is a living example of the Confucian principle that there cannot be moral order when there is intellectual disorder." -RH3

"[Faith is a sin] Because it is an attack against one's own self. One defies and defiles one's ability to comprehend the world in favor of maintaining a particular belief. Faith is molesting one's own mind in order to accept the products of someone else's mind." -AtheistKeith

"A deity who wanted to be believed in would try to either make itself intelligible or improve our powers of understanding until we were capable of proving it. If it cannot do either, it is perhaps not a deity worthy of our attention." -RH3

"A devout agnostic is one who gets down on her knees and shrugs three times a day." -mrbehemoth

"A good Christian should always strive to emulate Christ. I do my best to help, but I'm having trouble finding sufficient quantities of lumber". -MrBehemoth

"A lot of people are reluctant to call themselves atheists because they fear it has a stigma of arrogance or carries with it a claim of certainty that they do not feel. I am not interested in denying reality to satisfy prejudices; I prefer to shout the truth and attempt to de-stigmatise it." -mrbehemoth

"A person ought to be scared, very scared, of any frame of thought that says evidence is irrelevant." -DougofCal

"A rude person might suggest that there are no factual errors in the Bible because it contains no facts. Naturally, I wouldn't say any such thing." -RH3

"A social occasion is hardly the place to make a bold statement of disbelief. I would rather bow my head and close my eyes for grace and be thought courteous, if hypocritcal, than to make a point of not doing so and be thought a lout, but an honest lout." -Prismatic

"According to many religions, gay sex and gay relationships are immoral, yet banning them doesn't seem to yield any net positive result for the religious people who defined them as immoral." -Keepwe

"Actually ALL faith is nothing more than a blind leap. It's not built upon knowledge; it's an attempt to leap over the areas that logic prevents you from traversing; faith is the circumvention of logic." -chip

"Actually, I don't think it has that much to do with intelligence. More with education. Many atheists are former believers. They didn't get smarter, they got less ignorant." -Icky

"After you've extricated what you like from Christianity, and dismissed or superficially rationalized away what you don't like from Christianity, why call your derived religion Christian? The negative connotations of the term do your religion a disservice." -eljay

"Ah, spite. Is there anything it can't do?" -Jedi Ducky

"Ah, You must be a christian: You can't write, you can't think, and you don't know when to shut up. :)" -chip

"Aha, the well-known and universally feared argumentum ad taedium Â— the appeal to pique. You won't continue the discussion unless we stop annoying you with logic." -Prismatic

"Alas, the obvious does not take root in the minds of the oblivious." -AtheistKeith

"Alas, the virtual lacks the redeeming virtue of realityÂ—it may be unpleasant, but it is." -Prismatic

"All in all, I don't think it matters a lot what the ultimate source of "our morality" is. I do think that for society to function smoothly and fairly it should be at least conditionally accepted that we humans are the source of their legitimacy." -Citizen12

"All in all, I find that I have no use or need for religion. I merely try to spend my days enjoyably, help my fellow man when I can, and hope to live to a ripe old age before the darkness comes again." -J.Dean

"All medicines have their side effects and these can include unleashing the forces of darkness upon an unsuspecting world. But nevertheless, I think you ought to see your doctor about a prescription." -Mo

"All the superstitious drivel I was addicted to like gods, pyramid power, ESP, astrology, and the list goes on, just cheapens existence. How much more fantastic is the world revealed by science than the one explained by some tales of magic." -Flux

"All too often our leaders don't represent the majority of the people they govern and, sadly, all too often they do." -Rev.Conor

"American Christians often fail to realize that their political and social opinions may be more shaped by their American culture than by their Christianity." -AR Cline

"Amongst the greatest absurdities that consume mankind is governance by divine decree. That form of control is a pox on truth and plague on reason. When it doesn't destroy hope, it ruins inspiration." - Reshuffle

"And his sin was gaining knowledge of good and evil. You know, morals? That thing you claim atheists don't have? So if we have no knowledge of good and evil, we atheists are without Original Sin. So we don't need your preaching. We're pure! You're the sinner! Go away." -Mrreindeer

"And if you are going to drive over a bridge would you rather drive over one which was designed according to tested engineering principles or one which was designed according to faith in god's ability to "bear you up"? Faith without evidence is immoral because it is criminally negligent." -gclason

"And the lesson we should all take away from these incidents is: Nature is always trying to kill us, especially those with psychological issues and intellectual challenges." -MrReindeer

"And to bring it back to Asimov's point, it actually works against the notion of a Christian god. After a close read of the Bible, an unbiased and impartial response would be, 'And I'm supposed to believe that?'" -Tayana42

"And when I noticed that they were advertising toilet paper as containing vitamin E, after a few minutes breathing into a paper bag, I came to the conclusion that perhaps the Unabomber had a point." -Fluffy666

"And you also well know that non-believers can care very deeply about religion just as a person with no interest in baseball can care very deeply about a person beating him with a baseball bat." -Icky

"And, by the way, I haven't "chosen to ignore" the one who leads you... I believe it (Jesus, your god, whoever it is you follow) never existed. If I had to bother ignoring everything that does not, and has never existed, I'd be too damn busy to do anything else." -logicalsoul

"Any being that wipes out a large portion of the human population is an enemy of humankind, and anyone who bows to It is a traitor of the worst kind." -DarkAngel

"Any brain that believes in intelligent design is evidence of the failure of the hypothesis." -Mo

"Any knowledge or lack of same about gods feeds into my agnosticism. A sufficient amount of knowledge wouldn't change my atheism into theism, it'd render the whole concept of atheism (and theism) meaningless." - RevDave

"Any positives claimed for religions are simply due to the limits that religion has placed on people's ability to conceive of and embrace realistic approaches to accomplish the same things." -lahatte

"Anyone remember The Professionals? Late 70s/early 80s, Lewis Collins and Martin Shaw as Bodie and Doyle, some sort of special branch of the police, fighting terrorists and the like? Every so often I have to remind myself I'm watching the news." -RevDave

"Anyone who asks such a question could not possibly understand the answer." -DougofCal

"Apparently it's necessary to remind you that you've already demonstrated to me that you are not worth the miniscule effort it takes to rebut your pointless statements." -chip

"Are atheists smarter? I'm not sure, but I DO know that the black ones have better rhythm, the Hispanic ones have more kids, and the Asian ones are better at Math." -Crosshatch

"Are you a former drug abuser? If so, would I be correct in attributing your apparent inability to engage in critical thinking to drug-related brain damage?" -Elmeraho

"As a surmise, is your voice contralto? I happen to have gathered some negative stereotypes from various soprani of my acquaintance concerning contralti (of which imputed maleness is unfortunately one.)" -Mick(Canaris1)

"As an ex-Republican and ex-theist, I can, when pressed, justify virtually any belief or statement of mine, while denigrating anything that contradicts me, as long as we don't make reality too much of an issue." -FrankDK

"As for people who don't want to hear "Darwin" or "evolution", Well, boohoo, tough luck. When I'm sitting in a plane I don't wanna hear "Newton" or "gravity" either, but that doesn't make me think that the laws of gravity can be ignored. Reality is what it is, not what you think it should be." -Seeker

"As noted, some of us prefer to try to understand and recognize reality as opposed to escaping it. Regardless, if you're going to define 'a crutch' as anything which makes life easier or helps get one through life, then you're going to have to include love, companionship, food, shelter - damn near everything - as a 'crutch'." -chip

"As the Bushes climbed aboard the helicopter, I thought of what Peter Lorre said to Vincent Price at the funeral of Bela Lugosi, famous for his vampire roles: 'Do you think we should drive a stake through his heart, just in case?'" -Prismatic

"As usual, Coulter is talking out of her adam's apple. Although I must say I do find her strangely sexy, in a liberated concentration camp sort of way." -Icky

"At this age it becomes a crap shoot. You may be lucky or not. You can shift odds a bit in your favor with good habits, but that is all you can do. You have to live on the edge while you watch others slipping over it. " -Prismatic

"Atheism goes hand in hand with communism. Therefore, all atheists are left-wing. The existence of god is perfectly obvious to any reasonable person. Therefore all atheists are insane. People become atheists only because they hate God. Therefore all atheists are hate-filled. So no, there are no atheists who are not hate-filled left-wing wackos." -mrbehemoth

"Atheism isn't something you argue against. If there's no God, there's no God. Either provide evidence or realize that we're perfectly reasonable saying that the evidence for God is on par with the evidence for werewolves. Unless you're going to ask that we have faith in werewolves, there's nothing left." -Tatarize

"Atheism requires as much faith as believing that the sun will rise tomorrow. Theism requires as much faith as believing that there are elves in my pants. Hope that helps." -Psykomakia

"Atheists are sexy. We make our own heaven." -Saint Bengel

"Atheists have imaginations too. They just don't misinterpret emotional feelings as communication with a god." -lahatte

"Atheists often claim to know the bible better than theists, and some of us who came out of the dungeons of christ do know it better; however, every atheist who wants to discredit the bible has to know what the literature is and why it is nonsense. This collection of literature is the guiding "light" for millions of people who vote and create policy for all of us." -apostateofthelord

"Athests are not annoyed, we're just foresaken." -ptcarnahan

"Auto labeling forum bot 2000 Gold edition: This post has been given the following labels: Rambling, wrong, run on paragraphs, hard to read, waste of time, silly. Please rate the above labels to further increase the correctness of the Auto Labeling Forum Bot 2000, Gold edition." -MaxHarper

"Bad evidence, such as referring to known hoaxes, is not very compelling evidence. You may want to take steps to compensate for your confirmation bias, your gullibility, and your undue credulity." -Eljay

"Bah. Christians. Who needs insults and swearwords when you have such an insulting word as "Christian". -Grahor

"Basing your own purpose on the purposes (or lack thereof) of the universe is a poor fit and will be unfulfilling. Especially considering that you do not know the purpose(s) of the universe, or even if it has a purpose." -Eljay

"Bathroom walls were sort of like primitive internet forums." -Letxbex

"Because I want to feel I am worthy of love, and if someone is going to love me no matter what I do or what sort of person I am, there's no point in being worthy of it." -mrbehemoth

"Because the human race is the most important thing in the universe and we're vital to God's plans, so therefore he had to create everything so we had things to study and wonder about and realize it couldn't have happened without God creating it and by doing so we'd fulfill God's plan and be closer to God and God would be happy and we'd all have ice cream and cake. And like that." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"Being a skeptic in a group of believers is like being a designated driver." -NOGODHERE

"Believing your own delusions is not freedom. Just thought you should know that." -Goldblock

"Besides the things I would like from everyoneÂ—kindness, courtesy, tolerance, and helpfulnessÂ—I would like Christians to recognize my freedom of conscience. Too often their first reaction to learning one is an atheist is to start missionary work. " -Prismatic

"Best argument for atheism: the lack of argument for theism." -RationalSerenity

"Bigots always have an explanation for why their position really isn't bigotry. "God said so" is very popular. They're still bigots, and if their god said so, then he's a bigot too." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"Black and white, yep that describes atheists in general on one point. No God! After that color creeps into everything." -dlove5duke

"Blatant Sarcasm Police? Well, they won't have much to do around here..." -KateHost

"Boy, if I had a nickel for every time I've read this . . . well, I'd just have a nickel. You have reached a new high in incomprehensibility." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"BTW, we are born equal and we all go back to being equal 6 feet under. Some of us take the time in between to elevate ourselves, and others prefer to remain mired in mindless superstitions." -DarkAngel

"But every foot has to be fought for tooth and nail. We have to pry women's rights from the arms of Deuteronomy. We have to fight a war to free ourselves from the slave codes of Holy Writ. We have to fight for gay rights to seize them from Leviticus. And we have to oppose the anti-semitism of John. We need to battle for science against Genesis. We need to redeem history from Genesis to Kings. We need to defend ourselves from Revelation and Daniel." - Tatarize

"But just think about this: wouldn't a person who doesn't expect a reward at the end or fear eternal punishment and who acts ethically and with honesty and compassion, anyway, (a righteous atheist) be morally superior to a god-fearing ass-kisser?" -Crosshatch

"But later I'm gonna be a minister/engineer that's gonna challege all these theories and make evolution look stupid. Count on it." -hydro

"But look at it this way: it wouldn't be evidence of the supernatural, just evidence that what we thought was impossible, isn't. Like the invention of the aeroplane showing that the impossibility of heavier-than-air flight was not actually an impossibility. If magic existed, it wouldn't contradict any natural laws because it would be part of them. It would be another natural force like gravity." -mrbehemoth

"But we don't have to concern ourselves with gods a great deal as they don't seem to be around and they don't seem necessary to get through the day." -pgobrien

"But you are the nation which invented Vegemite, and no one can ever take that away from you lot, nor would they wish to." -Ibn Tumart

"But Â“You didnÂ’t have faithÂ” is leveled as an accusation. As if not believing everything one is told without requiring evidence were somehow a moral failing. It isnÂ’t. If anything, the reverse is true. It is symptomatic of a lack of interest in truth to be faced with evidence against a belief one holds and to ignore that evidence in order to hold onto the belief."-SusannahHB

"But, always remember, the Bible is mostly for condemning other people. Only a few select passages are to be applied to the Christians themselves." -AtheistKeith

"Can you at least TRY to put yourself in my shoes? Can you at least TRY to conjure up a smidgen of empathy, to understand how incredibly stupid and demanding of mockery this belief is?" - chip

"Catholic birth control teaching? Someone call the Kamikaze Pilot Crash Avoidance Training Centre, they're now second place in the absurdity stakes." - Rev.Dave

"Catholic wafers are the transubstantiated body of Christ. Protestant wafers are the demon seed of Satan. At least that's what I learned in Catholic Sunday school." -Eljay

"Children aren't any more prone to making up stories than adults. They are just not as good at it, so we think they are charming. When they get older, we call them liars. Or preachers." -Meow

"Christ is a fictional biblical character. The fictional character in a fable died. But no actual gods were harmed in the writing of that fable." -Eljay

"Christians ignore the fact that lukewarm adherents greatly outnumber the fervid ones; that adherents do not practice the tenets of their belief, and that the mainstream churches are all but dead now." -Prismatic

"Christians who come here, with a few exceptions, are generally bigoted idiots. I see you're not one of the exceptions." -Seth351

"Christmas is a secular holiday for me. It's all about food, family, gathering, Santa, and presents. Nothing about Christianity or Jesus. Axial tilt is the reason for the season." - Eljay

"Clearly there's a mindset among the ultra-religious of many religions that wants to tightly control the behavior of everybody else. Surely this is a form of mental illness, isn't it? The same sort that infects the Taliban and Mel Gibson?" -Freeksngeeks

"Common sense isn't very useful, really. First of all, it's basically saying "Well, it just makes sense, I don't need to use logic or such". Only those that can't support their arguments claim common sense." -MaxHarper

"Complaining that your right to infringe on other's rights is being infringed upon is laughable -- you have no such right, and your belief that you do is immaterial."-Flux

"Congratulations! You're not only arrogant and ill-informed but you're also a nutter. The holy hat-trick." -Fox(DavidFox)

"Consider the more likely scenario. Humans are not "worthless, dirty rags" at all. Instead, a religion developed that contrived a crisis just so it could get you to accept what it has to sell. Con artists use that tactic all the time to sell you something. They invent a problem, persuade you that you have that problem, and then make you believe that they - and only they - have the solution to the problem, so you better buy it before it is too late. That is all your religion is doing. It is emotionally abusing you, manipulating you into feeling ashamed, and then telling you that your only hope is to buy into their product." -AtheistKeith

"Courtesy? Courtesy is holding a door for someone. It's not catering to someone's silly little fantasy world." -Starriver6

"Cowboy Dubya. CHopper pilot Dubya. General Dubya. Churchy Dubya. Drooling idiot Dubya. Collect the whole set." -DeadWombat

"Currently there are at least 3 counties in Floriduh whose school boards have passed anti-evolution resolutions. That list could go up to 12 counties, if a statement by the superintendent of the Taylor county board is accurate. In other news, barbarians have just sacked Rome." -Rev.Martini

"Cynic: noun. Term used by fools to describe realists." -DarkAngel

"Damn, Charlton Heston is a bad actor. You forget how bad until the guy in the plastic monkey mask out-acts him." -DeadWombat

"Death and destruction are the meat and potatoes for any good Christian meal. Especially when it comes in Biblical proportions." -meow

"Did you know that DDT has caused men to become homosexual?" -EKDaniel (Theist)

"Discrimination against women and gays, I think, is something many religions, including Catholicism, stand guilty of. And the people within those religions shouldn't get accepted as good and decent people just because they are sincere in the abhorrent views they hold." - mrbehemoth

"Do you have any idea of the close resemblance your posts bear to a poorly translated instruction manual for a Japanese clock radio?" -mrbehemoth

"Doesn't matter how fast you become cynical, you can never really keep up with as cynical as you need to be." -Tatarize

"Doesn't that sound noble and lofty? It's like a country song that makes people cry, but when you look at the words objectively, it's just a string of idiotic babbling." -apostateofthelord

"Don't be so lazy, and do your own research, as I suggested. I no longer try to spoon-feed the solid food of knowledge to creationists because they're simply not old enough to digest it." -Flux(55A)

"Don't never not let comprehensive writing in sentences make sense stop you! Because you writer. Not need check writing before posting. Just words that other people read, how dare they expect clear words in row without hiccups?!" -MrBunny2

"Doubt is not a weakness. Doubt is a strength because, without it, we can never find any truths. All we find is other peoples' dogma." -Mo

"Doubt seems to be very popular among Christians. But it's never 'we have doubts about God's existence, so how do we find out the truth?' It's always 'we have doubts about God's existence - given we already KNOW he exists, how do we deal with our doubts?'" - mrbehemoth

"Each proof you give, like the solar system, is eventually shown to be the work of natural forces, and soon it will take a herculean effort on the part of the faithful to ignore the fact that there's no reason to believe a God exists." -BillZBub

"Edited to add omitted preposition." -Seth351

"Every parent expects their kids to stop believing in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, etc.; but for so many parents those kids had better not dare question the existence of their deity. It's fine to think for yourself, but only within certain boundaries." -LogicalSoul

"Every time some religionist five crayons short of a box comes here, I learn something new from the more knowledgeable folks on the forum, so keep them whackadoos coming." -NonProphet

"Everybody disagreeing with me all of a sudden. And here I was starting to think this was just a godless 'yes' factory." -Tatarize

"Everybody knows we should not steal and rape and kill. Only an idiot needs a truckload of robes and scrolls and magic symbols and books attached." -Crosshatch

"Everyone has their blind spots and clings to things they shouldn't. But religion relies on that and so they are based on exploiting those failings at their fundamental level. Any system that bases itself on human failings rather than human successes is fundamentally a stupid system." -Tony

"EVERYONE uses the Lord's name "in vain" - no matter how much you say it, he just ain't there." -Meow

"Everyone, stop sucking." -DreamerRach

"Everything is amazing to idiots. I'm starting to quickly stop caring what folks think is God. That whole, "Just give me proof and I'll look at it" thing we atheists do is getting to be a large waste of time." -Tatarize

"Exactly how ignorant are you? Sorry, that's not fair to you, and I withdraw the question. Approximately how ignorant are you?" -RevDave

"Faith conquers truth, reason, hope, decency, kindness, compassion and morality. Next to it is ignorance, which conquers anything that escapes faith." -AtheistKeith

"Faith is a refusal to allow reality to interfere with the lies one tells onesself." -RH3

"Faith is curable. Get well soon." -AtheistKeith

"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to a great gig as a right-wing editorialist." -DarkAngel

"Final notes: There is no god. The president is a douche. Everybody dies. Everybody rots."-Tatarize

"Finding it difficult to accept that people really can believe such preposterous religious stories, I am nagged by the idea that somewhere, maybe buried deeply in their subconscious, there must be this little voice squeaking "bullshit! bullshit!". -C12

"First, it was Motor Trend's Car Executive of the Year. Now it's the Nobel Peace Prize. I'm going to use my psychic powers and predict Obama will next win the MVP Award for the 2009 World Series." -Gonzo

"For any future discussion, I'm going to make a pre-emptive negative claim against anyone that thinks that my future thoughts and opinions are flawed. I said it first, so you are screwed, buddy." - DaBlue357

"For being a bunch of prudes, Christians breed like rabbits. And I swear it doesn't seem possible but there's only so much intellect between them and it gets thinner and thinner." - Tatarize

"For some reason, terrifying the British seems difficult. A lot of attempts have been made over the last hundred years or so, but Margaret Thatcher is the only one who succeeded." -RH3

"Forgive me. I need to do penance for all of the things I just thought of that I would like to do for penance." Abbeynormal

"Frankly, I think someone should evacuate the entire "holy land" and give it over to Disney to turn into a theme park -- perhaps something with a marsupial motif." -AtheistKeith

"Frankly, it's kinda sad to see such an intelligent, normally reasonable fellow's cognitive facilities brought so low by his subserviance to a religious meme, but it DOES help to illustrate the perniciousness of such memes, and I suppose for that I must thank you."-chip

"From my lengthy and involved experience with the christians, they actually don't read their bibles as much as they might claim. They do skip over the boring bits. They scratch their heads at the illogical bits. They ask their pastors to explain the unreasonable bits. Then the pastor will proclaim the doctrine that "explains" it all, and everybody goes home happy that all's well with the bible once again." -apostateofthelord

"From time to time I think about what I want to do with my life, and then I concentrate on doing those things. Sitting around complaining about how it sucks to have a serious illness isn't on my list. Nor is thinking about how lucky I am to be alive today on my list." Ericwoof

"Fundamentalists hang onto their beliefs by being steadfast to the whole Bible. Moderates hang on to theirs by reinventing it. I don't know who's beliefs I respect less." -Tayana42

"Fundingo is no fun if you have to keep crossing off the same square." -Saint Bengel

"Funny that people think that the emotions of bronze age men should be what runs the world." -Popsy

"Given the fact that they had thousands of years in which most people were totally illiterate in order to get their darn story straight and get down a book that wasn't riddled with errors and plotholes, I'm not impressed." -Aino

"God allows evil to prevent more evil. You see, it's a trade off that an all-powerful god doesn't really have to make." Tatarize

"God created a pot that he KNEW - BEFORE he created it - was going to put a hole in itself. This is the pot's fault. God will now punish the pot unless the pot kisses God's ass. THAT is an accurate summation of Xianity." -chip

"God creates evil, and that is fair? God tempts Adam and Eve who don't know good from evil, and that is fair? God murders and tells his followers to murder, and that is fair? The only thing that keeps your god from being an absolute monster is the fact that it doesn't exist." -FrankDK

"God died for YOUR sins?? Wow, do all the other xians know that God's dead? I bet they'll be pissed off at YOU." -chip

"God doesn't want to be our bitch. He wants us to love him and find rewards in his love, not use him when we need money or a new car." -knud87

"God is the greatest abortionist of all since 80% of pregnancies are miscarried. Add in the number of pregnancies that result in fundamentalist Christians and you can see how very few conceptions end up with a functioning human being at all." -mrbehemoth

"God is unnecessary for cruelty. It helps, of course, but it is not necessary." -Grahor

"God must be a television writer. Rather than making something original, he simply recycled an old script and changed a few lines." -Flux

"God so loved the world he gave [murdered] his only begotten son. I'm glad my parents don't love me that much." -Eljay

"God's momma is so fat, when she farts the universe is destroyed and reborn." -lahatte

"God, being entirely fictional, is a blank canvas upon which believers can paint whatever image pleases them. All are equally valid, which is to say not at all." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"Good - sometimes people need a metaphorical smack upside the head. Sacred cows need kicking, and I, for one, am proud to be in the boot-fcuking brigade." -Flux

"Good atheists and good theists give time and money to make the world a better place. The only difference is that some of the theists also spend time praying about it. Then there are those theists that only pray. I wouldn't call them good." -benmcd

"Has it occurred to any of you that the very people who tell you abstinence is 100% effective are the only people in the world who don't really believe that?" -Tatarize

"Hateful people believe in a hateful God, loving people believe in a loving God, and so on. It's about what should be expected if all gods are figments of people's imaginations." -DougOfCal

"Have you ever entertained the idea that some people have not sought evidence for God because they find that everything they have casually heard about God is exceedingly preposterous?" -Citizen12

"He reminds me of a ratty, semi-deflated soccer ball... Fun to kick around for a while, but ultimately unsatisfying." -Ozy666

"Heaven is wishful thinking combined with the conceit that one is too important to cease to exist." -groovyspaceman

"Heck, if I perceive that the Emperor has no clothes and I say so, it doesn't make me angry and rebellious, it just makes me...right. :-D" -J.Dean

"Here's one I haven't been able to work into a discussion yet: "Whether they come from Red states or Blue states is immaterial. All creationists are in the State of Denial." -Seeker

"Here's your daily reminder that you have failed yet again to substantiate ANY of your claims made in this thread - you merely reiterate and repeat your assertions without ANY support whatsoever. Your pockets are empty; your hands wave feebly in the air, trying to distract your audience with pitifully inadequate attempts at sleight-of-hand. You're like the proverbial naked Emperor, strutting and preening through the streets while the people point and laugh at you." -chip

"Hey, I have two more cases of metastatic cancer and one more thing of pancreatic cancer. I actually like my odds." -Tatarize

"Hey, I trust in God... to always give justification to those that need divine excuses." -MaxHarper

"His arguments are so preposterously bad that I would not be surprised if they become living entities and come to knock him on the head." -Anduin

"Hmm... come to think of it, maybe that is why they have to use the adjective "Christian", in "Christian love", "Christian charity", "Christian kindness": because they don't amount to what any objective observer would call "love", "charity", or "kindness"." -AtheistKeith

"Hooza cwever wittle twoll? Hoozee, den? You are! Yes, you are!" -Flux

"How about a 30-year-old energetic Black Pope? I think a lot of people are tired of being told how to run their lives by old, old, white men." -AndrewF4

"How can a "movement" have no goal? It cannot. And what is the goal of atheism? Sleeping in on Saturdays and Sundays and saving your knees for gardening?" -Mo

"How could anything irrational be truly moral? Without a logical basis there can't be any right or wrong, good or evil." -gclason

"How profound. So we should believe in Christianity because, even though we have no idea what it means, we can be vaguely certain that it means something?" -Mrbehemoth

"However, if we were to take the story of the serpant in the garden literally, we would find that the serpant was actually man's carnal mind." - Ginger09 (Christian)

"Humans don't have a "god-shaped void". Humans have a void that seeks knowledge. You have invented a void-shaped god and you no longer desire to seek knowledge." -lahatte

"I almost referred to my wife as 'mom' once. That I can still type is evidence of my ability to quickly swallow words before they come out." -Saint Bengel

"I always get drunk and lie around naked in my tent after I build a 450-foot boat and put two of every animal on the planet in it and then float around for five months" -Seth

"I always thought internet females were really 40 year old fat dudes that chain smoke and need a back wax." -Gakuct

"I am always amazed - foolishly, I think - when Christians come up with this "explanation" for a former Christian turning to non-belief. The whole process of holding to a position - any position - and then abandoning that position when presented with evidence to the contrary seems to entirely escape them. No, it can only be because you never really held that position in the first place." -Rdalin

"I am always both baffled by and suspicious of people who are not raised from infancy into insane beliefs, but assume them as mature and fully-functioning adult human beings." -mrbehemoth

"I am convinced that atheists and other free thinkers are not aware of the power of persuasion resident in a pulpit. We should not simply deride preachers as bizarre; they are powerful enemies of truth and rational thinking." -apostateofthelord

"I am currently reading about my tenth book in as many years on quantum physics for the layman. One day I hope to be able to explain to someone why nobody understands it, but first I have to misunderstand it properly myself." - David Fox

"I am not so impressed with myself that I should think myself to be so awesome that only a god could have made me. The flawed processes of nature are up to the challenge of making a flawed being such as me. For thinking this, Christians call me arrogant." -AtheistKeith

"I am the night. Kind of like Batman, only with more astronomy homework." -Jedi Ducky

"I became a vociferous atheist about 10 seconds after I was told what religion was, and about eight seconds after I laughed." -Tatarize

"I believe Billy Graham is financing a new documentary series on famous atheists entitled "Atheists: Homicidal Satanists or Drug-addicted Paedophiles?" So it'll be looking at the issue from both sides." -mrbehemoth

"I believe Christianity is ridiculous and not to be taken seriously, but that has nothing to do with atheism." - RDalin

"I believe facts are an important part of discussion. You either have accurate facts, or not much of anything else. Checking facts is a good place to start an examination of any idea or belief." -Tayana42

"I belong to a non-conformist sub-culture. Of course, so do you. It's so non-conformist you don't even have to join it to be a member." -mrbehemoth

"I bet you didn't know you could use your old wire hangers to dry your octopuses." -SnoopyLucy

"I came to realize that an appeal to faith could be used to justify anything at all. But, whatever can justify anything, actually justifies nothing. If you appeal to faith, you might as well say that you believe whatever you feel like believing. There is no difference." -DougofCal

"I can count the number of times I've doubted gravity on one hand... even if I worked in a wood shop and lost all my fingers." -Tatarize

"I can respect people's right to hold ridiculous beliefs. But respecting the beliefs? Absolutely not. I merely tolerate them, and in the interests of social grease, I try to keep my utter disrespect quiet." -Mo

"I can respect the beliefs of an individual who believes in god because of the beauty and complexity of the universe and yet makes no pretenses to know what or who god is (as Christians do). Any other beliefs regarding god I cannot respect". -jellomold2

"I can't answer for Chip, but name-calling always makes ME feel like a big man. Wanker." -mrbehemoth

"I can't even imagine some guy in the sky keeping track of everything I ever do in my life just to see if I'm good enough to hang out with him after I'm dead." -Teen meow (age 13)

"I can't even stand to go there. The only thing more annoying than the stupid things they post is the stupid things they must be thinking that they don't post." -dlove5duke

"I can't remember, are Mennonites the ones who hang down from the ceiling, or grow up from the floor?" -DeadWombat

"I cannot believe in a god that will not hold me responsible for my own sins, but that will hold me responsible for the sins of others." -Anduin

"I cannot tell whether it is real or parody. Just as any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, so is any sufficiently abysmal ignorance indistinguishable from "conservative" Christianity." -AtheistKeith

"I choose my enemies (and overall people I'm being an ass toward) with care, so that I could proudly say "never I conformed silently with the likes of them, their doings, ideas and ideals, but was an unrelenting ass toward them, and did all I could to improve the universe". -Grahor

"I considered a life of prostitution, but you know what they say: 'you can't sell what you can't give away'." - FrankDK

"I could have worded the speech so it could be read in about 3 seconds: "The Theory of Evolution is a scientific theory that pisses off fundamentalist Christians." -Citizen12

"I deal with death through the grieving process. I do not hold any sort of notion that the person exists as a spirit, or ghost, or shade. My memories of the person are not the person. Just as footprints in the sand are not the person who made the footprints." -Eljay

"I demand extraordinary evidence for the extraordinary claim that there is a church with a "strong intellectual side". -mrbehemoth

"I do believe this nation is a great one, but I am not interested in calling down the ancient sky fathers of Mesopotamia to bolster our good fortune. The politican's right to believe in nonsense is balanced nicely by the voters' collective responsibility to elect rational agents into office." -CivilizeMe

"I do not now and have never acepted the proposition that suffering is enobling. Personally,I'd like to see the moron who came up with "no pain no gain" eaten alive by wild dogs." -TSShagnasty

"I do realise there is a segment of the population that does not believe that anyone whose career ended less than a hundred years ago can be considered a genuine artist, but I don't find it that compelling. Jackson was in a different category to Beethoven, but both were true artists, both had enormous cultural impact, and Jackson wrote better lyrics." -mrbehemoth

"I do shave my head frequently, which is, in a sense, a denial of my male-pattern baldness because I'm hoping people will think I'm eccentric rather than over the hill." -Mrreindeer

"I don't accept that faith is an acceptable means of acquiring information. I don't believe in gods or the supernatural. I do believe that humanity is the source of all that is good and evil in this world, and I believe in working to make this world a heaven for all people to enjoy, not just those who know the secret password." -JAlanBrown

"I don't believe in God in the least, as the word is generally applied, but sometimes I look at some of the more heinous crap that occurs from the hand of Man AND in the world of Nature, and think: there MUST be an evil, sadistic a-hole behind all this." -Crosshatch

"I don't care how valiantly Christians struggle to love me despite the fact that I'm gay, because I don't acknowledge their right to have a problem with it." -Keepwe

"I don't dismiss the possibility. I do dismiss, on grounds of lack of justification, any assertion that it is unreasonable to doubt the existence of a supreme being. Doubt is not equivalent to dismissal." -DougofCal

"I don't get it. The story says the statue has only one breast exposed but I see two giant boobs in that photo... oh, never mind, one of them's Ashcroft." -Mrreindeer

"I don't get your point. Are you saying you're a bigot, but you like black people from Lesotho?" -Jen(ADMJenny)

"I don't know about anybody else, but when I want to ward off something, I always use my personality." -benmcd

"I don't know about you, but I don't feel comfortable allowing the government to decide what kinds of indoctrination are harmful in a world where atheists are considered among the most immoral people in existence." -Rillion

"I don't know that nature "feels" anything. I just think if some insist on finding a reason in nature for homosexuality to exist, then that is one possible explanation. Of course, homosexuality is probably also nature's way of making the world more fabulous." -Boverbearing

"I don't know which is worse, postmodernism or Christian fundamentalism. They both have pretty nasty consequences for the intellect." -DougofCal

"I don't let Bronze Age blood sacrificers do my thinking for me. They knew what G-d was thinking and saw fit to deputize themselves as "His" messengers, but flush toilets never occurred to them." Crosshatch

"I don't like Adventists. I would take ten Episcopalians over an Adventist. Second Advent indeed. End of the world my ass." - Tatarize

"I don't pretend to know something you don't know. I just accept reality a little differently" -ginger09 (theist)

"I don't see what difference it makes. Preaching is all about spouting bull$hit to the gullible anyway. What does it matter if the guy making a fool of you knows he is spouting BS or not? You are still the fool." -C12

"I don't think creationists are trying to prove their point. I think they're just trying to silence the opposition. It's not about what is right, it's about who is right." -Kato

"I don't think it should be mandatory. I think enough completely ignorant people vote already, without legally requiring them to do so." -Rillion

"I don't think there's even a shred of doubt that Saddam was considering initiating contemplation of thoughts of weapons-related program activity-associated discussions." -mrbehemoth

"I emailed the new Christianity-General moderator and asked to be gagged immediately just in case I post there by accident, because I had no desire to contribute anything to the site.. No reply yet." -DeadWombat

"I find atheists a lot more tolerant of ideas than most theists even if they don't agree with them. I have never been given a pamphlet on the street by an atheist. I have never had one ring my doorbell and harangue me about why I shouldn't believe whatever it is I believe." -nganga2

"I firmly believe that when a good HIV vaccine comes to market that there's going to be huge protests by the religious right." -Tatarize

"I found a neatly cut half of a sandwich in my couch cushions one time. The lettuce and pickles were all in place. I was living by myself at the time, and had no one to blame, but I couldnÂ’t remember ever missing part of a sandwich." - Tayana

"I friggin' can't stand someone going on about being a persecuted christian when people don't hate them for being a christian, they hate them for being a flaming hemorrhoid." -NonProphet

"I give it a free pass now. Much in the same way the U.S. Senate is made up of 100 Senators, I consider the Trinitarian Christian god to be a three-comprise-the-one godhead." -Eljay

"I have a friend who got pregnant by buying Barry White's old mattress at a garage sale." -mrbehemoth

"I have almost made it all the way through Duck Soup. The funniest part to me is how nobody seems to notice the Marx brothers are actually insane and treat them like they are legitimate members of society. Sort of like Kim Jong-Il." -snoopylucy

"I have an extensive collection of weird music. I would like to see a porn movie made to polka music." -SnoopyLucy

"I have been back before the Big Bang and discovered that FC was right: there WAS no Big Bang. This universe was started because the last one exploded when two men married each other." -MrBehemoth

"I have his posters all over my bedroom walls hes just the dreemiest, cutest boi EVER! once i went to one of his masses and i sware on my dogs life and you no how much i luv my dog, but neway i sware benedict looked STRAIGHT AT ME omg i nearly died he is so gorjus catholicism roxorz!!!!!!!!!!!!" -mrbehemoth

"I have maintained for a long time now that Bush could litter the whitehouse lawn with the discarded bodies of underage male crackwhores that he had used up and would still suffer ZERO political fallout." -chip

"I have no doubt that you command respect, since based on the contents of your posts it's extremely unlikely that you could ever earn it." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"I have no interest in writing down an inventory of everything I havenÂ’t thought of." -Tayana

"I have struggled for years to work the phrase "jerk-off" into a post and have so far failed." -ptcarnahan

"I have to be suspicious that fundamentalist Christinity has paid a far greater role in stymying scientific research in America as well as dumbing down the education system in general, because the religiosity has for several decades apparently had much greater influence than the political system has been willing to admit." -DarwiniaStill

"I have to chastise you for posting something with an iota of content. Albeit a refreshing departure from your regular posts, such posts may besmirch your finely honed reputation." -Eljay

"I have to think the world would be a better place if competition for the Darwin Awards was not so intense." -Citizen12

"I have you on ignore because your posts are equivalent to textual flatulence." -Eljay

"I heard a rumor that 2+2 equaled four. It turned out it was true, so all rumors are true." -Tatarize

"I hope I live to see the day when the Bible can be taught in public. In a mythology class, alongside Greek, Roman and Norse mythologies." -curtt

"I just can't quite understand why, with a an infinite world of things that actually exist - people have a burning need to insist that there's something "else." -Crosshatch

"I just can't stand the knee jerk reaction to criticism of anything Jewish or Israeli as anti-Semitic. It is an attempt to cut off legitimate discussion about some negative instances and occurrences with threats of labeling someone a bigot. It is unproductive and nothing but an avoidance technique." -Tony

"I just can't wait for the Lord to reward my good Christian life by giving me a pitchfork to stick into you." -J316

"I keep some pigs around and whenever I find a demon I cast it into one of the pigs and drive it over a cliff. If more people did this it would reduce the violent crime rate." -khorton

"I kind of like militant atheism. The Christians are horrified that such people dare to speak out and they scurry around like ants being stirred with a stick. It doesn't bother me in the least, and I am the nicest person you will never meet." -kerryh9

"I knew a guy with a mohawk once - he had to sleep with it between album covers with bricks flattening it out. I was impressed at his dedication to his hairstyle. His hair was green, too. Now he just looks normal and walks dogs for a living."-SnoopyLucy

"I know it doesn't matter what I hope for and what I don't, but, like a month or so back when Alabama's governor asked that everybody pray for rain, rather than presumably hiring professional raindancers... well, that made me want Alabama to never get rain." -Tatarize

"I know its bound to happen with buildings like the Burj Dubai going up. The gods are going to come and stir up our languages again. I just know it." -AtheistKeith

"I know this is evil of me, but I like seeing all-wheel drive vehicles in the ditch in icy conditions. Not if it looks like a serious accident, of course, but I like to see a big truck with cosmetic damage and an asshoIe that will be late to an appointment." -benmcd

"I like Rammstein. I just don't understand how you think Norwegian black metal happens to be related to German industrial electronica." -DarkAngel

"I like this metaphor... it allows me to describe my previous relationships in terms of models of cars. I've dated a couple of SUV's in my time, a few econo-boxes, and one or two hybrids." -Rillion

"I love black comedy. I think the Bush administration is hilarious." -TSShagnasty

"I love the typical Christian double-think of 'We are the majority' plus 'We are persecuted'. I, personally, have trouble holding two such contradictory thoughts at the same time without my head exploding." -Queen Maeve

"I measure success in life by the number and quality of the adventures. On my deathbed, itÂ’s how I plan to keep score." -EasyD2

"I must say, morality based on reasoning is a lovely thing to behold. It is so much richer than the bland "God said so" rules which front as moral systems." -Citizen12

"I never exaggerate. Total accuracy or bald-faced lies, that's me." -mrbehemoth

"I never liked role-playing. I prefer mechanical, joyless sex in pitch blackness, preferably through a sheet as our Lord intended." -mrbehemoth

"I never really thought of myself as vitriolic, just really, really unpleasant to be around." -mrbehemoth

"I once considered blasphemy to be a most heinous act; nowadays, I consider blasphemy a form of poetry to be studied and mastered." -AtheistKeith

"I only bring it up because the forum is pretty down on post modernism, mostly because the recursive metaphorical themes of the intercalary transcendental actualization of the community is negatively inclined." -Tatarize

"I plead guilty as charged to being a cafeteria Christian. I'll have a generous portion of the abundant life and leave rebuke and scourging for you." -John76

"I prefer Benny Hill to Adam Sandler because Benny Hill is dead." -mrbehemoth

"I question a person's ability to "participate in another's suffering" without actually doing anything to help them. If that is compassion, then it is empty compassion....worthless and possibly even harmful. True compassion, to me, is the motivation plus action which is in keeping with the source of the motivation." -Rillion

"I really don't see much of a difference between this talking to God and someone who says he has conversations with Napoleon. The only exception being that they have a padded room for the latter." - Saint Bengel

"I really think very few people actually Really believe without evidence. They have their evidence. They rationalize some mental processes and derive their own evidence by referring to some past percieved experience. I'm not talking about the people that claim to be believers but never give it a thought. I mean the people that really pray and talk to their god and really believe. The passionate ones, I suppose." -lahatte

"I really thought we'd have come farther by now in terms of an Everyman's working cosmology. There are so many people walking around with ipods and iphones and all that stuff, thinking they're so "modern," who seem perfectly content to parrot the strange ideas of polygamist herdsmen animal sacrificers from the ox-cart era." -Crosshatch

"I respect faith in the same way I respect a hurricane. I expect it to do some damage, I wish I could prevent it, but I can't." -FrankDK

"I saw a god. He was beautiful. He was about 20 feet long, shining in the sunlight, ploughing effortlessly through the harbour. Well, technically it wasn't a god, it was a yacht, but you get my drift." -mrbehemoth

"I see an interesting symmetry here. Many believers think that anyone who thinks the Bible isn't true must not have read it. Many skeptics think that anyone who thinks the Bible is true must not have read it." - DougOfCal

"I sometimes take an unhealthy pride in being an atheist before reminding myself that not falling for the absurd is not really much of an accomplishment." -Unregistered

"I sometimes think every book has already been written, but every year a lot more are published, so I guess not." -SnoopyLucy

"I stopped googling my nickname when all that came up were some old posts on a serious porn forum." -Deadwombat

"I suppose it's only fair that American cigarettes get in to heaven, because their beer sure isn't going to." -Flux

"I suspect that for many, the label 'logic' just denotes a big bucket that you can dump into anything that fits the category of 'persuasive' or 'reasonable' even if it's only shallowly so." - Arjaypet

"I tend to suspect that when people use the term "closed-minded" they are talking about those people who do not believe in something that they hold dear." -Anduin

"I think Creationists result from indoctrination and a lack of education in critical-thinking skills. I believe they are victims more than anything else. One has to consider that the thought processes encouraged by some types of theistic indoctrination have much greater deleterious effects on their lives than does a rejection of the theory of bio-evolution." -Citizen12

"I think his bus is so short it's collapsed into a singularity of stupid." -Jedi Ducky

"I think insurance companies should sell something like "Jesus Supplemental" policies. They would only cover situations where Jesus did not save people, their homes, their cars, etc. They could be sold at a greatly reduced rate." -Tayana42

"I think it is funny that you assume that I am sane. Embrace the insanity. Hold it close and call it 'George'." -Deadwombat

"I think it's called ASCII art. I remember the first time I heard someone talking about ASCII. I thought they were saying "a$$ key". It had me completely baffled." -SnoopyLucy

"I think it's funny that so many arguments about the morality of homosexuality forget lesbians exist. It belies the fact that many people's objection to male homosexuality lies in a distorted view of gender roles and masculinity." -Glamrawk

"I think it's like a prayer cloth. You pin it to yourself to recieve god's blessing or protection and to gain his wisdom for whatever problem you are having. So you see, there is nothing superstitious about christianity." - Jenbo47

"I think one of the cruelest things that we can do to our fellow travelers is the false offering of love to them while taking away our respect for them and their own dignity. An example of that twisted ethic might be "Love the sinner, but hate the sin". -ptcarnahan

"I think one of the heights of conflict will be when the Texas Legislature starts burning Wiccans at the stake. I've already pre-ordered bleachers to be placed around the Texas border and will be selling popcorn. Someone should make some coinage off this and it might as well be me." -MartiniStraightUp

"I think that even if belief in the supernatural, God, or whatever could be more or less done away with, there'll almost surely be someone who thinks that his team lost because he forgot to wear his lucky underpants." -Superhop

"I think that religion in particular has co-opted the truly humanistic term spirituality and made it mundane and irrelevant. Whenever someone asks me about it, I keep the conversation focused on the things that each of us has in common - we are alive here and now and we are human." -Bean

"I think the existence of morality is contingent only upon the existence of beings that conceive it... much like God." -Seth

"I think the whole world is at war with irrationality. The problem is that where the battle lines on everybody's maps seem to separate Christians from Muslims, the irrationals are the only ones fighting on either side."-Doug of Cal.

"I think they are all wrong. The nucleus is clearly held together by the brains of Young Earth Creationists which are very, very small and, although things gather around those brains, nothing ever penetrates them. They are perfect for holding nuclei together." -Atheist Keith

"I think you are mistaking me for you, Mr. Normative Objectivist Descriptive Relativistic Absolutist Universalist obfuscater." -Lynne (SmartFemale)

"I think you need to contemplate the fact that you are so extraordinarily stupid that expressing your ignorant views in public is an act of criminal negligence." -Mo

"I thought the main tenet of Western Buddhism is that the source of all suffering is varmints".- MrBehemoth

"I try not to think about the number of hours I spent walking up and down in the middle of the night, cuddling and singing (!) to RH4 in attempt to get him to sleep. Now it just requires 473 stories, a long discussion about the abilities of various robots, and a very large mallet." -RH3

"I understand the appeal of libertarianism and in a perfect world I'd be a libertarian, but so long as where you start life is the best predictor of where you'll end up in life, I just don't get it. If the playing field is so uneven and there are such vast differences in the opportunities people have based on the socio-economic status they're born into, it just seems like there must be a role for society as a whole to open opportunities for the disadvantaged." -Aino

"I walk on a track most days with a stick, and I always draw a little Happy Face with a "Hi!" next to it for whoever comes along later. Sometimes there will be a "Hi!" in response, sometimes it is untouched, but quite often it has been deliberately scuffed out. Once someone wrote a Bad Word. If I was a psychology major this would be my thesis." -SnoopyLucy

"I want the most true beliefs and the fewest false beliefs. If you don't want that for yourself, oh well... I hope you get gored by a unicorn." -Tatarize

"I want to add one more now, too: 'Red Barchetta' by Rush. Not only is it a great driving song, but it's a song *about* driving; but not merely driving. No, it's about driving against The Man." -Beelzehost

"I want to get a t-shirt showing Che Guevara wearing a t-shirt with my face on it." -Mrreindeer

"I want to see the Sopranos and Deadwood without all the Goddamn cussing. I think it gives children a negative impression of mobsters and whoremongers." -Icky

"I was at a party a while back, and a woman asked me if I believed in original sin. I replied, "It depends. How original do you want to be?" -FrankDK

"I was going to write something rude, but then an uncharacteristic wave of compassion came over me and I thought "No, this one is a well-meaning simpleton. I'll let it pass." -RH3

"I was in Hollywood in '96 and saw a set of size 15 red high heeled strap up pumps in a transvestite supply shop. I nearly bought them, even though I am not gay, just so I could have them if I did turn gay, because I felt I would never get shoes like that again." -DeadWombat

"I was just admiring her ability to not only be inaccurate, but to be diametrically opposed to reality." -MrBehemoth

"I was mired in rhetoric once. I had to call Roadside Semantics to get me out". -mrbehemoth

"I was thinking of working at this soup kitchen to earn some God points and weasel my way into Heaven, but then I recalled there wasn't any heaven so I started beating some homeless guys with a chair and blew my head off." -Tatarize

"I was told that some of the residents of New Orleans went ahead and staged a mini Southern Decadence party under a banner that said, "Hey, God, you missed a spot"." -glacson

"I was wondering earlier if it was possible for you to integrate new knowledge into your worldview. It appears that you are unable to do so. I wonder why you are unable? Do you have any insight to offer concerning your inability to learn?" -Chip

"I wasn't going to [run for president], and couldn't anyway. RH4 might (he's a U.S. citizen) but I'd rather he took up something a bit more honourable, such as marine biology or pimping." -RH3

"I wasn't telling you to go to hell, I was telling you what "perish" means in the biblical context, but if you don't repent you will go to hell. Anyways, God bless you." -JTRivero

"I watched a bit of Survivor, but only because that was what the people who had control of the bong were watching." -xyz

"I went to a seminar at my lab on the topic of sparse network matricies and linear algebra. I thought it sounded like an exciting topic, but few people showed up". - Erikwoof

"I will admit that if God shows up at my door with a quarter pounder, I'm converting." -mrbehemoth

"I will follow wherever the evidence takes me. I just object to proceding in advance of the evidence." -Kate Towner

"I will never truly understand why anyone would push aside their humanity and their good sense in order to follow a religion." -C12

"I wonder when these dingbat Christians who push these types of laws are going to realize they don't need a law to enable them to perform the internal mind function that is called 'praying'." -Rev.Martini

"I would expect Atheist Barbie to be a brunette (no good reason)." -(MadScientis1)

"I would not accuse you of lying - but let us say that you are a little conservative with honesty occasionally."- EuropaXS

"I would suggest you try another method of avoiding insults, such as making an effort to not deserve them." -mrbehemoth

"I would tip my hat to you if I wore one or proclaim "Huzzah and kudoes!" loudly if I said stupid things blithely." -Ibn Tumart

"I wouldn't venture to say that there would be no wars or conflicts without religion. However, I think religion is a very common and easy excuse for hostilities and taking away one of the hooks on which the agressor can hang his hat might leave more room for the peacemakers' voices to be heard." -Fox

"I'd define 'god' as a fictional character that inspires people to pseudo-intellectual maundering and intrepid flights of equivocation."- Elmeraho

"I'd forgive you, but I don't have an only begotten son to sacrifice. Sorry." -Seth351

"I'd rather be among British people than with the finest people on earth." -SnoopyLucy

"I'd rather take comfort in the fact that, like me, other atheists typically believe that this life is all she wrote, that secular humanism is a superior philosophy to that of any religion, and that evolution satisfactorily explains the origin of life, with no need for the intervention of intelligent deities." -SmartFemale

"I'll concede that Catholic dogma has been adaptive in our co-evolution with various parasites. As to the evolutionary basis of religion, I prefer (ironically enough) the spandrel theory. But let's say religion has been adaptive in our social evolution - that is to say it's produced more people, not justice or happiness." -Adrian

"I'll deny all things supernatural except for baseball superstitions. That's how I fill my spiritual void. So I am absolutely certain there is no God, but if you mention that a pitcher is working on a no-hitter before the last pitch is thrown, you will jinx him and that's really a rotten thing to do." -Mrreindeer

"I'm a materialist. What cannot be measured or otherwise show evidence of existence may as well not exist, as it has no effect on that which does. If it did, that effect would be evidence." -Longstreet63

"I'm actually more inclined to eat octopus after finding out how smart they are, because I don't think we should give 'em an inch." -mrbehemoth

"I'm afraid I don't accept that "Christianity" is logically coherent enough that I could, with a straight face, lecture Christians on what they're "supposed" to do. I just keep my fingers crossed that they pick up on some of the more liberal, beatitudy bits and remain oblivious to the misogynist bits, of which there are plenty. Ditto for the homophobic bits and the pro-slavery bits and the anti-scientific bits." -Keepwe

"I'm always amused when I see men proclaiming "We're having a baby!" in reference to their freshly pregnant wife. I regard it in the same sense as some drunken, half-naked, sun burned Yankees fan in the bleachers saying "We won the pennant!" -Gonzo

"I'm ashamed of us - lobbying with the moderators to ban/gag someone because he's annoying...OK, very annoying...OK, extremely annoying. But what happened to the good, old-fashioned dog pile?" -Seth

"I'm assuming that English is not your native language, so I'll eschew comment on your syntax." - FRANKDK

"I'm beginning to suspect that religious people who compare God with fathers must have had really crappy fathers." -RH3

"I'm getting rather tired of Christian arm chair physicists waving their hands around in the air, muttering about the "mysteries of QM" and invoking a similar mystery for their god. If God were understood as well as quantum mechanics, we would have already miniaturized him and put him in a device to carry around on our wrists." -Ozy666

"I'm more interesting in discussing the morality of the god depicted in the Bible. For example, I find discussing the morality of forcing rape victims to marry their rapists, of cutting off women's hands for rescuing their husband by hitting an attacker in the groin, or of forcing wives to drink magic adultery-detection cursed potions if their husband becomes jealous. I just find these conversations more interesting than tedious discourses about the fact that the Bible has abysmal historical value or the fact that it is replete with contradictions." -AtheistKeith

"I'm not bragging or anything, because, as I like to say, "I'm just a sock puppet with the Universe up my ass, but even as a kid I asked questions like: "Where did 'God' stand when he made everything?" -Crosshatch

"I'm not judging you. I'm just telling you that God says you're going to hell". - chip

"I'm not prepared to be offended by anyone expressing their personal beliefs, even if they are government officials. They can say they believe in ghosts too, so long as I'm not required to do anything about it. Proclaiming false beliefs that have no consequence isn't rude, it's embarrassing." -Roylatham

"I'm really starting to wonder if you're a only an atheist because you fail to understand religion in the first place. I mean, it doesn't seem like you have the logical facilities to reason your way out." -Tatarize

"I'm sorry, but I can see absolutely no value in unprovable/unfalsifiable BS like solpisism or postmodernism. If YOU want to go around thinking that you might possibly be a small blue soapdish, be my guest. But please don't waste my time by trying to get me to join you."-chip

"I'm sure I must have said something interesting since I've been here. But at the moment I can't think what it was." Kate Towner

"I'm surprised this isn't more obvious to more people: you come across a watch in the forest, and you know it's designed, because it's so unlike the rocks and trees in the forest...therefore the rocks and trees must be designed." -mrbehemoth

"I'm toying with the notion that God is a 400-pound yellow canary." -mymallandnew

"I'm with the others who say that atheism is a default status one acquires when theism fails us. We don't choose to become atheists, it is just a by-product of discovering that there aren't any gods." -AtheistKeith

"I've always wanted to see a tanker filled with human waste crash into a pokemon factory and explode." -TSShagnasty

"I've become convinced that the secret to such a near-utopia would be the universal recognition that all humans share a common bond of humanity that transcends more superficial cultural differences." -smartfemale

"I've been feeling a whole lot of that lately. It's gotten so that when it comes to engaging fundies, the shine ain't worth the spit." -chip

"I've found kids have an amazing talent for pushing you so far that you magically become a complete tyrant." -MrBehemoth

"I've had a can of Spam for months now! Really I do. I just haven't found the right moment to eat it yet." -MaxHarper

"I've lost count of the number of things I've memorized." -Tatarize

"I've never had much use for philosophy or its positions. The Kama Sutra has much better ones." -Gonzo

"I've read most of the bible, in bits and pieces over the years. It's really terrible and nonsensical writing. Sitting down and trying to read the whole thing would just give me more reason to not even consider it a decent story." - Mags

"I, for one, appreciate your reducing your font size. You're still a raving lunatic, but at least you're not raving so loudly anymore. That's progress." -Queen Maeve

"If a fundie is cut in half, which half won't shut up?" -mrbehemoth

"If believers and skeptics alike could ever get past the fallacious arguments that they both love so much, then just maybe they could figure out which, if either, side has any valid arguments left." -DougOfCal

"If evolution has shown that many of our physical faults are the product of chance and are not reflective of our value as people, has it not elevated the moral condition of man? Does liberating ourselves from the stupid superstition that illness is proof of a lack of character not have great moral value?" -Aino

"If fear of punishment is the only restraint on your conduct, then you are morally deficient. You should study Confucianism, Stoicism, or Buddhism, instead of Christianity. They might develop a little moral sense in you." -RH3

"If God can do anything, can He make a copyright that He can't infringe?" - SnoopyLucy

"If God set up the natural order, and he is a moral agent, all the natural evil is his fault and is actually moral evil. There is no really popular justification for God's cruelty and those excuses which have been offered concentrate on the effects on the human race. Christian theologians seem not to care about the suffering of non-humans." -RH3

"If I said that God told me you were wrong, how would we figure out which one of us was crazy?" -Rev. Martini

"If I want science I'll read science books. And if I want a badly hobbled together mish mash of the worst of the Jewish religion and various pagan traditions with some rather amusing erotic poetry here and there... I'll read the bible." -maxharper

"If I were a genius I'd invent a way to turn posts like that into something useful, then at least I could spread it round the garden and maybe get some decent roses this year." -RevDave

"If I were a sadist I would advocate making illegal something totally innocuous, like... peanut butter, say, and see how long it takes before it becomes identified as a "dangerous element" that people deal on the streets for outrageous amounts of money and kill each other to get, and people start saying "You can't legalize peanut butter - look at all of the crime associated with it!"- Rillion

"If I were God, I'd ensure that everyone used the subjunctive." -Mo

"If it wasn't for people like you who think it's wrong, homosexuality wouldn't be any more awkward than being left-handed is." -LtPowers

"If it were true that God will punish me for not believing in him, I still wouldn't gamble on it because the very game itself is appalling. I would no more swear allegiance to such a God than I would swear allegiance to a dictator who promised my safety if I will help him exterminate his enemies." -JAlanBrown

"If language evolves, where are the transitional dictionaries?" -mrbehemoth

"If liking SpongeBob will make me gay, then so be it. Take me to Bikini Bottom and make me gay." -Beelzehost

"If not for theists, I might well just be a weak atheist about the position. The assumption demands that every theist in the world be constantly wrong. And really the belief has paid huge dividends and constantly finds itself accurately predicting the failures of huge groups of people." -Tatarize

"If one does the right thing often enough, then one is going to be ripped off every once in a while. Anyone whose personal policy is to guarantee that never happens is not being charitable enough." -DougofCal

"If simple faith were a health benefit, the bible belt of the U.S. would not have the country's overall highest rates of obesity, heart disease, high cholesterol, and diabetes." -Flux

"If someone makes stupid and idiotic statements, they deserve to be insulted. And degraded. (And vilified and laughed at). It's only right, and I do so believe in justice." -gclason

"If the whole 'what the word "gay" means' discussion escapes them, just throw in the towel and say 'Well, you know, Jesus was gay. He had twelve male friends, they ate of his body... gay. Obviously gay. Flaming gay. Even more gay than Elton John -- Jesus was Liberace gay'." -Eljay

"If then, your method is a useful means of determining the truth, please tell me some great mystery that was solved by faith, sans evidence." -AtheistKeith

"If there is a dog poop - pornonography connection, I hope to go the grave without hearing about it." -SnoopyLucy

"If there is a hell, it is staffed not by pyrotechnicians, but by philosophy majors." -AtheistKeith

"If there were a God, George W. would vomit on someone important during the big G8 banquet." -Mrreindeer

"If there's anything the NRA has taught me, it's that automatic weapons don't kill people; atheists kill people." -benmcd

"If we liked talking to angry people, we'd pray." -mrbehemoth

"If you actively maintain delusions, then you are delusional. It doesn't matter if only one person believes the delusions or everyone on earth. A delusion does not suddenly become a truth if only enough people believe it." -AtheistKeith

"If you are saying that I am a "fundamentalist" atheist, then you are mistaken. It is impossible to be a fundamentalist atheist because there are no fundamentals to fundament over." -Lahatte

"If you end up saying "God has no objective purpose, God just IS" - and at some point in the concentric circles of meaning, you must then understand why atheists like myself say "Life has no objective purpose - life just IS." -Mo

"If you find yourself unable to determine whether you exist, I think you might want to take a few less "soft subjects" next semester. Maybe take some business courses or something." -AtheistKeith

"If you read the Bible you'd know that marriage is between one man, several women, various concubines, and the occasional dead brother's wife." -Tatarize

"If you really think that your morals came from the bible, consider this - the morals you have and the morals from other Christians from other times and cultures are vastly different. I'm not talking about minor changes, but on important issues like women's rights, slavery, war, murder, child rearing and other primal issues. Differences of night and day. And they all had the same book that they claimed had their moral guidelines." -MaxHarper

"If you say you can produce scripture that says the sky is blue, producing scripture that talks about the color of the ocean doesn't count." -C12

"If you want to see out of control emotions from men, all you need do is attend a sporting event, a political contest, or a war." -Rillion

"If you want to think that a man lived in a whale or that Noah rounded up polar bears and penguins and Cocker Spaniels, that's your business, but do you really expect people to believe that stuff who aren't afraid not to?" -Crosshatch

"If you're talking about an omnipotent god who loves all of humanity and wants all of humanity to know that he loves them, just open your eyes to the world around you. The evidence of that god's nonexistence is everywhere, and it has been everywhere throughout all human history." - DougofCal

"If your faith is so weak that you have to shield your child from the very idea that some people think differently, then it's time for you to closely examine what you believe." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"If your God depends on the modern day version of belief in a flat earth, it's doomed. These are not the Dark Ages - at least for anyone who dares to think." -Mo

"If your opponent doesnÂ’t know any Greek (and he usually doesnÂ’t) you can demonstrate that you do, and thereafter adopt the manner of a professor debating with an unlettered peasant whose boots are coated with agricultural by-product.Not fair, of course, but terribly satisfying. Your smugness quotient goes up from 'objectionable' to 'absolutely intolerable'." -RH3

"In '91 I went on a business trip to Saudi Arabia. The visa application had an entry for religion. I entered "none". The next day, my supervisor informed me that I had become Baptist." -Seth351

"In addition, the evil perpetrated by Abrahamic religions is such that once doubt about their god enters their brain, the good person, the ethical person, the kind, caring person is forced to see them as distasteful." -xolo

"In America we don't have any special beetles for our dung. Our dung just lays there without a beetle being interested in rolling it into a ball." -SnoopyLucy

"In fact, I think faith properly understood is a powerful argument for strong atheism with respect to the God of Christianity. I don't happen to believe in the existence of a God, but if there is a benevolent God who has escaped my notice, I have faith in Him not to do anything so unutterably stupid as send me important information concerning my salvation through an evangelical cult such as Christianity whose members are confused about the difference between faith in God and faith in Christians." -Keepwe

"In real life I don't often meet Christians, but I think that's not so much because I'm an atheist as it is because I live in England. We've pretty much been there, done it with the whole religion thing, and everything seemed to get better around the time the real nutters left on the Mayflower." -RevDave

"In the big scheme of things, it wasn't much of a sacrifice. One bad weekend; less trauma than the little girl who was kidnapped and raped over years by her father in Austria. Less trauma than hundreds and thousands of people in the world every year throughout history." -Readzalot

"In the end, I suppose that is the reason that religious leaders cannot, absolutely cannot empower their congregations with the capacity for freethought. They don't want it. They go to church to receive a specific service - conviction, catharsis, and the irrational reassurance that the money and time they are committing to the church will ensure that the pain and struggle they encounter in this life will have been worth it, rewarded in an afterlife of eternal reward and guiltless ecstasy. If they don't receive this service from one minister, they will go shopping for another." -cyberdigital

"In the end, if the nation's integrity survives, this all might turn out to have been like getting a case of the measles. The disease hurt, but it is nice to have the antibodies it engendered." -Citizen12

"In the spirit of finding something nice to say about everyone, I do note that, at the very least, you're honest enough to admit you're a closed-minded ignoramus." -Flux

"In this, the Church is responsible for crimes against humanity, as well as the working class, which are unforgivable. It is the duty of all moral human beings to oppose such an institution, and even to dance on its ashes." -DarkAngel

"Indulging in self-delusional and cherished fantasy saves no one. It is an abdication of responsibility and reality, and a surrender to irrationality and psychosis." -Eljay

"Interesting that several of us seem to approve of the idea of blowing people up. We just differ a bit about whom to blow up." -RH3

"Ironically, I would think if a god of some sort actually existed, atheism brings one closer to god, as it is very evident to me that this god does not want mankind to know it exists, and therefore atheists are one step closer to understanding god's grand plan." -jellomold2

"Is it possible to care less than not at all about other peoples' sex lives or lack thereof? That's my position. Not caring at all doesn't quite describe or equal the intensity of my indifference." -Crosshatch

"Isn't it strange that the same people who claim to be creations in the image of their god are those who usually find the bodies their god supposedly created somehow bad and shameful?" -NonProphet

"It actually concerns me that, on my deathbed, saying "oh jesus" due to pain might be interpreted as a last minute conversion. Screw that. I must remember to use the F-word as my preferred expletive." - Postmodernhousewife

"It broke my heart into one piece when Bush left office." -AtheistKeith

"It depends on what you mean by caring for number one. If you treat your fellow humans as if their concerns and feelings were of no importance to you, your life will suck." -DougofCal

"It does seem odd that people accept God but quibble over degrees of nonsense. It's like buying an imaginary car you'll never see, but debating endlessly what color is best and whether or not you paid enough." - Tatarize

"It doesn't matter, in the philosophy, if ideas are racist or fascist. Ideas have to stand on their own merit and to fail on their merit, not be forbidden because 'we don't like them'. I may be against spreading those ideas 'on the streets', but not against examining them in classes and universities". -Grahor

"It has become apparent to me that people can believe that gods are real while knowing very nearly nothing. In fact, I have noticed that being in the state of knowing very nearly nothing seems to be fertile ground for belief in the existence of gods." -Citizen12

"It has been just as easy for bad actors to justify their actions by non-religious justifications as religious, and I cannot see that the wholesale adoption of atheism would change this." -Streiche

"It has occurred to me that religion and morality have as much to do with each other as vision and eye color." -JAlanBrown

"It is a sad thing that the idea of changing your position in the light of new evidence is so universally considered to be a bad thing and a sign of weakness." -Fluffy

"It is just the way I look at it. Faith is an affliction. I don't know why people go on about how awesome it is. It is just a cancerous version of trust. Trust can be good, but faith is diseased trust." -AtheistKeith

"It is probably the most ironic statement ever to state that God and religion unite us. Yes, they do unite people--mostly when they want to kill other people." -Nazrani

"It is so amusing to me that your whole point is that science is based on evidence and that theism is based on a lack of evidence. Wherever there is a lack of evidence, it must be God! Perhaps instead of pointing out gaps in scientific knowledge, you could show us some evidence that God actually exists?" -BillZBub

"It is the analogy with Christianity. Sin is the cancer. Jesus is the cure. But who tells you Jesus is the cure? The same people who tell you that sin is the cancer!" - RH3

"It is true that, in many Latin American cultures, being handed a severed human arm is considered bad luck." -mrbehemoth

"It just occurred to me that the reason experts on god don't agree on anything is because - obviously - there's more than one god. In fact, there's probably (at least) one god for every expert. So much for monotheism." - VeryIrreverentRichard

"It must be interesting to live in your head and experience the world as a series of talking points utterly unconnected by logic." - Keepwe

"It occurs to me that someone very cynical with little or no shame could make it very big in television." -Flux

"It seems inarguable to me that the thousands of hours you apparently have devoted to making sense of your Bronze Age and medieval ancestors represents time that you have NOT spent learning about everything that every other civilized person on earth finds relevant and worthwhile." -Crosshatch

"It seems that God only wants to save people who are prepared to believe things which appear to be nonsense. Why would a super intelligent God be so prejudiced against intelligent people?" -RH3

"It seems that the group that most eschews reason is the group that hates the most. It seems that it is reason, rather than religion, which most encourages people to follow the Golden Rule." -Citizen12

"It stops being amusing after a few years. Theists seem to be immune to logic. They try to use it for their own ends, but don't feel obligated to believe any valid conclusions drawn from such logic that they don't endorse." -Tatarize

"It surprises me how many otherwise intelligent people come here all fired up to tell us that Atheism is just another form of the unfounded belief that it rejects. I don't believe in "God" ....period. I don't make any claims about the existence or non-existence of things I can't prove. Simple, isn't it?" -Crosshatch

"It would almost be worth the trouble of getting divorced and going to Canada just to get married by a gay Elvis." -RH3

"It's a joy to me as well. Talking about copulative verbs puts me in a state of conjugal bliss." -mrreindeer

"It's a little humbling to realize life on this planet is pretty much based on poop." -SnoopyLucy

"It's a pity that all those mental gymnastics you go through to arrive at your tortured 'conseptualizations' don't do anything to improve your mental fitness." -chip

"It's a pretty depressing thought; to only live on in memory through a quote displaying your sheer stupidity. Note to self: be more witty." -Mags

"It's a shame that you've dedicated so much time answering a post for which an adequate response may be found inside any random box of Cracker Jack." -Dingo

"It's a slippery slope. One day we're banning good old fashioned funeral heckling, but then that leads to..what? No more dragging bloody corpses through the street?" -Beelzehost

"It's amazing how much this sounds like people of faith trying to explain how their faith is backed up by evidence." -dlove5duke

"It's an opinion I cannot help but hold. The second I read it at university my very being rebelled with intellectual revulsion at it. If Anselm's proof is actually a proof, then everything I know is wrong." -Mrbehemoth

"It's curious that the author [of Genesis] seems to think the sun was just an additional light in an already light-filled day, and the natural conclusion is not that he was speaking figuratively but that he was full of shit." -Keepwe

"It's funny when they start quoting scarier and scarier bible verses about what god is going to do to us if we don't believe. It's like when somebody starts shouting at a person who doesn't speak English." -Twsh

"It's hard to stay deflated by reality for long if you have an internalized certainty that you're in a personal relationship with the biggest honcho of all, and HE'S madly in love with you. He'll be waiting with outstretched arms when you kick the breathing habit, and off you'll go to where it can't get any better because it's always as great as it gets....forever. It makes swallowing a bunch of bizarre ancient Science Fiction backstory seem like a pretty small price to pay." -crosshatch

"It's hilarious that a Christian can reel off a list of terrible deaths, and yet claim that the worst of them all was the guy who didn't actually die, and knew that he wouldn't all along." -mrbehemoth

"It's not 'name calling', it's a statement of fact. Anyone who says 'Atheists have a god, and it's Satan' is pure and complete uneducated idiot. I am sorry, but a fact is a fact. We can dance around it, we can name it fancy pc names like "mentally handicapped", we can blame society for this, but the fact remains: you are an idiot." -Grahor

"It's not nerve to resist social conventions invented by religious folks to protect religion. If you believe complete nonsense you'll be called on it in every realm - politics, society, art, literature, sports. But religion... oh, no. We've got magical respect for people who walk away from the wheel of a bus and pretend Jesus is driving." Tatarize

"It's not that I don't want to see you atheists suffer. The fantasy about whacking you on the ass as you try to get out of that lake of fire really excites me." -John76

"It's pretty easy to rip through a tissue-paper argument with only religious arguments in favor of the proposition. If there are only religious arguments for something, there are no good arguments for it." -Tatarize

"It's proud of everything. Proud of being smug, proud of being obnoxious, proud of being ignorant, proud of being enslaved to an insane death-cult, proud of the spontaneous orgasms experienced with every daydream about atheists slitting their wrists because someone put a Christmas tree up outside Kmart." -mrbehemoth

"It's really amazing how often theists of a certain stripe post links to articles which contradict their claims. You'd think they would first get someone to read the article and explain it to them." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"It's so sadly unsurprising that you see truth in astrology. You wouldn't recognise logic or critical thinking if it leapt down your throat and chewed on your appendix." -Mo

"It's the pope, it's terry schaivo, its Jerry, neck and neck in a race to the death, and wait, its Johnny cochrane up the outside in a surprise win!!" -DeadWombat

"It's why I always question what should be the obvious absurdity of the so-called Judeo-Christian tradition. When you shave off the necessarily fake ecumenical veneer, it's not a wild mischaracterization to see one side thinking something like, "Poor, misguided bastards don't know a messiah when they see one" and the other side thinking, "Poor, misguided bastards don't know a false messiah when they see one." - Crosshatch

"Jesus of Nazareth was only included as a historical figure when Christians started to write history." -Seeker

"Judaism and Christianity are no different in that a moral person will find in them the moral guidelines to which he already adheres, and an immoral person will find in them justifications for his immorality." -C12(Citizen12)

"Just legalise terrorism. Leave behind the stupid moral ditty. Everyone's doin' it. It's the in thing. Add public funding, better arms, bigger special effects, and once the fight goes out of everyone, we'll all go home. If there is one." -Nazrani

"Just remember that, most times, when someone talks about "truth," they're talking about the point where they decided to stop learning". -rplourde

"Kind of ironic, eh? You claim the book that calls you a liar is 100% true." -chip

"Learning morality from books makes as much sense as learning how to swim from them..." -DarkAngel

"Let me break the news to you: the old boy has been a corpse for ages, refrigerated or not. He was a corpse when he turned a blind eye to the systemic child abuse in his churches and when he turned a blind eye to the civil rights of gays. The only thing more frozen in time than his body was his vision." -reshuffle

"Life has a meaningful purpose, and better yet, it's customizable. You get to make it yourself." -Tatarize

"Life is a process of giving up one thing after another. What a nuisance it is, but worth it. Strike a balance between what you like to do and what it's wise to do. Eat your veggies and keep moving." -Prismatic

"Life is too short to get mad at all the lies people believe." -benmcd

"Like most people, Christians prefer being comfortable and secure to being correct. Their religion gives them that illusion, so they have little or no interest in finding what the truth is, nor in admitting uncomfortable truths when they encounter them." -AtheistKeith

"Living a cloistered religious life is to me a warping of one's humanity. I would not go so far as to say that such a person can't have wisdom to impart to the rest of us, but my immediate reaction is suspicion." -RDalin

"Logic will prevent you from stepping off that roof. Faith will encourage you to try. Which is of more benefit is obvious to anyone who is not stupified by faith." -Chip

"Look, things happen. You bring in the girls and the dogs for a few snapshots of naked arabs masturbating and all of a sudden people are talking torture." -Prismatic

"Man, now I want a super karate monkey death car." -Ibn Tumart

"Maybe a good answer to the "no atheists in foxholes" argument is "yeah, it's hard to have war without religion." -MrReindeer

"Maybe he's afraid to descend into a pit of despair with all the rest of the atheists so his mind won't let him go there. He doesn't understand that it's really not that bad. That "empty" space is quickly filled with family and work and real life concerns and the realization that those are the things which filled that space all along." -Twsh

"Maybe he's one of Mary Baker Eddy's Christian Science majors. Where the term "science" means "not science"." -Eljay

"Maybe I should grab a hammer and smash away half my cerebral cortex. Then I might have a chance to find my way to the creationists' heaven." -Mo

"Me, a high priest? Well, maybe - if you left off the 'priest' part..." -chip

"Mind you, despite all attempts of my parents and society, I, myself, do not share the opinion, that showing up at a job is benefitial for me. In fact, I think such behaviour is beneath me, so, it's hard for me to be an advocate and propagandist of such a life style." -Grahor

"Mind you, everyone has very different understanding of "greater good". And I wouldn't agree on your definition of "greater good" if it does not include me somewhere out there in a space yacht with my harem." -Grahor

"Moral actions and principles are not delegated. Moral actions and principles are those that respect the rights and freedoms of others, and of society in general. All morality stems from that, and that alone." -lahatte

"More advanced = less biblical. Every step you take toward morality is a step you take away from the Bible." -Tatarize

"Most atheists do good, not because of some belief that a god will reward or punish us, but because by doing so, it strengthens our family, our community, our world - and that makes it a better place to live." -Readzalot1

"Most of those we grade as being incompetent at life aren't, which only enhances our desire for them to be incompetent at life." -Saint Bengal

"Most of what you say is genuinely quotable; it's just quotable in a men's-room-stall kind of way." -Reshuffle

"Most people shrink back from deep thinking. That's why they're referred to as 'the masses'." -Crosshatch

"Most single-celled organisms do not engage in sexual activity. They just split in half and ask themselves "Was it good for me as well?" - Seeker

"Much as you want to think 'I don't know' is some sort of victory for your side, it isn't; it's just what science says before it goes and finds out." -longstreet

"Murder is when you enter someone's house with a weapon in your hands and kill the owner. Killing is when you first declare war, then enter someone's house with weapon in your hands and kill the owner... Huge difference, you know." -Grahor

"My body tends to run faster than my mind. I arrive everywhere early, but end up just making grunting noises." -mrbehemoth

"My official opinion was to declare you retarded. You can attempt to rectify the mistakes that lead to this conclusion or just have this conclusion reiterated." -Tatarize

"My own maxim here is to stay careful about keeping my "hate list" or "don't-like list" always smaller than the list of "likes" and a lot smaller than my list of "care-nots". It's good for one's own mental health and makes better companions." -Georg (Empiricus)

"My point was that these claims are intoxicating. To believe something by sheer force of will in the face of contrary evidence can give one quite a kick. My point was that there is a real pleasure for many in seeking out and manufacturing evidence of God's will and actions." -BranchingStream

"My primate ancestors evolved and all I got was this stupid tool using ability and gigantic brain." -Longstreet

"My statement was: why present the message, if it is so critical, in such a manner that could overshadow it? Would you want your local weather person to tell you that a really bad storm is coming in plain and simple language or in the form of a haiku or sonnet?" -SavannahKing

"My will is specific. I should be kept alive indefinitely while draining my family of all they have. There should be fifteen visits to the state court and ten to the federal courts. The Sureme court should view my still palpitating corpse. The arrival of Jesse Jackson in a stretch limo to rend his garments would also be a nice touch. In short, I want a three-ring circus." -mymallandnew

"No one deserves mercy. If you deserve it, it's not mercy." -mrbehemoth

"No wonder you spew words the way you do: You are so full of yourself you've triggered your gag reflex." -elmeraho

"No, but I have these smart pills you can buy. No, they are not rabbit poos, they are smart pills. Yeah, they taste like rabbit poos, but they are smart pills. Ok, they are rabbit poos, but see, you ony had to eat five to get smart enugh to realise that." DeadWombat

"No, first you have to believe that sins actually exist, then you have to hate yourself for even being born and therefore sinful, which then opens your brain up for indoctronation into a bizzare set of rituals and instructions that look suspiciously like a copy of the social rules of a nomadic agrarian tribe." -Fluffy

"No, I just thought you didn't know you were an idiot, so I took it upon myself to inform you. If you already knew, however, I apologise for the presumption." -Flux

"No, no-one here will trust you because what you posted is not science. It's like some cargo-cult misunderstanding based on a 1930s' popular science magazine with half the pages missing." -RevDave

"No-one gets killed with Swiss Army Knives. By the time you have sorted out the blade from the magnifying glass, the bottle opener, the tweezers, and the thing for getting stones out of horses' hooves, your intended victim has run away." -RH3

"Nobody ever said making definitive judgments on the personal qualities of other human beings you don't really know was going to be easy." -mrbehemoth

"Not all "bad things" are born directly of the Books. But some indisputably are. Why ignore and rationalize and make excuses for them? Worst of all, why tolerate them in this day and age?" -JQHiggins

"Notice the 1st, 3rd, and last letters in "googled" spell God, but it only works in the past tense. Otherwise it's Goe. I'm pretty sure this is important, but I'm not sure why." -Tayana42

"Now I find it odd that you demand the impossible for that which you do not believe, yet for what you do believe you do so without a shred of evidence, reason or logic." -Eljay

"Now I have no direct knowledge of what the writer REALLY meant, but for 2000 years the church of God, the body of Christ, the congregation of the faithful, has interpreted these words to mean that if you don't kill heretics you become guilty of their sins. And they have done their killing secure in the knowledge that it was what God wanted." -gclason

"Now I sometimes think that after they burn me and hang my brother a black pall of ignorance and barbarism will fall over the world." - RH3

"Now if you ask me over a beer why I don't like catholicism in particular among other religions (none of which I like) I might say "Because catholicism can make an intelligent person act like an idiot." -Letxbex

"Now you might question why a self-admittedly not-so-intelligent person dares to call others stupid. Well, I do not need to be a hen to know when an egg is foul." -Empiricus

"Now, I understand that you cannot understand why anyone would be so altruistic without the threat of a god and eternal damnation hanging over them, but don't project your ethical deficiencies onto others." -Mo

"Obama gets the (Nobel) prize for fishing diplomacy out of the trash can and using it again. For that to be possible, someone had to put it in there in the first place. It's a bit like the implied message of opposition to disease which results from awarding a Nobel prize for medicine." -MarkBoyd

"Obviously all the plumbing (in heaven) empties into hell. It just wouldn't be fundie paradise without being able to sh!t on someone." -Rev.PJ

"Oddly, that's a common claim but wrong. Anybody who says that typically means to say that they aren't Jesusy enough. The truth is far easier than that. They cite the NT quite often and Jesus isn't as Jesusy as people say he is." -Tatarize

"Of course. I rarely listen to anything else. Metallica, Anthrax, and Bach... the trinity, as far as I'm concerned." -mrbehemoth

"Oh my Cod, I can speak Greek! AEIOU AEIOU AEIOU!" -Deadwombat

"Oh, come on. A bit of chanting "Namu Admida Butsu" won't do you any harm. Just stay away from the "nam myoho renge kyo" stuff." -RH3

"Oh, come on. What's wrong with poking fun at the Vatican and some good old-fashioned masturbation?" -Seeker

"Oh, I have a comic about looking up web comics, but under the circumstances, it'd be a tad recursive." -Flux

"Oh, I know there are plans to create God. I went to the townhall and saw the proposal drawings on display there. It was very nice. Too bad that the naming committee used all the budget." -SavannaKing

"Oh, no. Don't be looking to the real world for evidence of spiritual advancement. You have to look within. Everything you need to know about anything is right there. It's the only way to know nothing and yet claim ultimate intellectual superiority. Books are for standing on when you can't reach the top shelf." -Twsh

"Oh, so you don't care if innocent defenseless children are exposed to sex right smack bang in the middle of their exposure to violent crime and hard drug use? You monster." -mrbehemoth

"Oh, stop being so tolerant and reasonable. You've been a member of this forum long enough to know what is expected of Christians here." -RH3

"Oh, that's right, God is anything not fully defined. So God is undefinable... how do you know... because we defined it as anything we can't define. What if you finally define that? Well, then it wasn't God afterall." - Tatarize

"Oh, you've done a great job of spreading your message. What you have utterly failed to do is present one good reason why anyone should think the message originated with God." - DougofCal

"Old lags like me see a fair bit of consistency in U.S. foreign affairs. The U.S. consistently supports any regime, no matter how brutal and repressive, so long as that regime seems to promote U.S. interests and/or supports Israel." -RH3

"Once you accept that bible can contain errors, nothing stops god from being one of those errors." -Grahor

"Once you accept that homo sapiens is just one of millions of species on this planet that have co-evolved for millenia, these "mysteries" vanish. All that is left to determine are the mechanisms of their inter-relationships. And no, learning about such things does not make a rose smell less sweet." -Mo

"Once you accept that the bible can contain errors, nothing stops god from being one of those errors." -Grahor

"One can talk to atheists. Fundamentalists, regardless of stripe, are unreachable. They have god on their side, after all." - Marie(MarieSiduri)

"One might almost say that the dawning of a common, albeit not necessarily universal belief in a bunch of mumbo-jumbo is how civilizations are born." -AtheistKeith

"One of the consistent features of the relations between different denominations and indeed different religions is that they nearly all implicitly sign up to the idea that any religion is better than none at all." -Fox

"One of the worst things that I will say about people who are so mean, jerky, or otherwise really awful that I can't think of any other way to express my feelings about them is that I've added them to the list of people who make me wish I was still Christian so I could tell them to go to Hell and actually mean it." -Bascilla

"One school district was told to teach creation science, so they went to add it to their curriculum. They failed to find a single fact about creation science. Apparently half the time is to be spent teaching biology and the other half with their hands over their ears shouting "lalalalalalalalalalalalalalala"." -Tatarize

"Only those who demand Freedom and Liberty are We the People; those who demand universal healthcare are The Enemies of The People. If, say, purely for example, that 97% want universal healthcare and 3% want the Free Market - that means that 3% are The People and 97% are the Enemies of The People. That's how ideology works." - Grahor

"Open your video with some abstracted vaginal image, wrap youself in a rug from Pier One and you too can start your own religion!" -arjaypet

"Over the years many possible purposes for our existence have occurred to me. Trouble has been, I can never think of any good reason to believe that our existence has any purpose." -DougofCal

"Overall, I think "the authorities" would find me to be a nerd. Any agents of the government would probably just give me a wedgie and leave." -Flux

"Painting pictures of zebras with Hawaiian shirts might lead to a cure for herpes, if those stupid scientists would just give it a chance. But nooooooo, they give up after 300 paintings." -Rev. Martini

"People are gay. That alone is enough to make it "natural". I see little value in describing anything as more or less natural. Something may be more or less likely to occur in a given situation but that doesn't make it more or less natural." -rydhi

"People have wrapped themselves in consumer goods and infotainment and superficialities. The real world has started to intrude, and many people have no idea how to deal with it." -Mo

"People need to know that there are upstanding honest atheists with good table manners. If they are uncomfortable with atheists, it gives them a chance to become acquainted with one. However, if you have dirty fingernails and a nasty personality, tell them you are a Jehovah's Witness." - Prismatic

"People SHOULD ALWAYS be willing to be talked out of their beliefs; and if provided with objectively verifiable evidence that those beliefs are erroneous, they SHOULD be willing to abandon those beliefs." -chip

"Polish logicians did a lot of really great work, but they get little credit for it because no one can spell their names." -RH3

"Porn always tells it just like it is. And if your girlfriend comes home and catches you having sex with her sister, her immediate reaction will be to strip off her clothes and join in." -Rillion

"Pride and Prejudice and Zombies angered me because the illustrations had extremely, extremely wrong period clothing." -Mags

"Raise the intellectual level of the White House. Elect Miss Teen South Carolina." -RH3

"Realizing God exists can alleviate that empty feeling that makes someone so addicted to chronic masturbation." - Bodhitharta

"Reason cannot be cultured by withdrawing from the ideas of others. It must triumph." -Citizen12

"Reform and other liberal branches of Judaism know that there are female rabbis. Orthodox people know that there are not." -Reyzl(rgstern)

"Religion is a belief "system" like tossing a coin is a betting "system". -freeksngeeks

"Religion is an excuse for extremism and willful ignorance, not a basis for morals." -Kato84

"Religion, like drug addiction, is an unnecessary and harmful add-on. It isn't a matter of filling up some hole. It is like feeding a cancerous tumor." -C12

"Religious language is without factual meaning, but it has the same kind of meaning in human affairs that works of art and the imagination possess." -Prismatic

"Religious skepticism is not a moral failing. You could argue, if you must, that it is an intellectual failing, and I have no problem with that. I have a serious problem, though, with people who think that only reprobates can disagree with them." -DougofCal

"Relying on the stupid people is basically playing to chance, which is obviously better odds than relying on the intelligent people when your case is crap. It is, however, a bad play if your case is solid. Simple game theory." -Darkangel

"Repeat after me, "I will not eat mushrooms that I find in the woods." - Rev. Conor

"S/he/it seems very committed to the biblical universe. I enjoy the insights into primitive peoples as much as anyone. If only we didn't have to worry about their electoral control of nukes." -Nazrani

"Saying you're not planning on firing the first nuke is just reminding the other side that you can." -Mo

"Science has nothing to do with needing a belief. We don't pray to Newton that things keep falling (or to keep them from falling). There is no Altar of Mendeleev, no Mysteries of Einstein, no Gospels according to Darwin, no Temple to Pythagoras, etc." -Seeker

"Scientists are always coming up with their human explanations for the mysteries of God. The three phases of matter exist because there are three phases of God. God, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. God is the solid ice. His commandments are inflexible. Jesus is the water, because his teaching had to flow out among mankind. The Holy Ghost is steam, because ghosts look like steam." -Citizen12

"Scientists at least take the trouble to come up with a new name for every new mystery they discover. They don't keep recycling the same three-letter abbreviation for 'I don't know'." -DougofCal

"Scratch a Fundie lightly and you'll find a nihilist." -Ozy666

"Secular morality leads. The church eventually relents its immoral positions. I can see how that looks like it's rejecting the bad, but it's not. The church rejects the laughable. And secular progress makes those positions laughable. They adopt the mainstream position when it becomes too absurd to not. So eventually they come around, but not because they were ever right about the subject." -Tatarize

"See, everyone? Physics doesn't ruin someone's ability to be hip and funny." -Tanner

"Self discovery, understanding who you (we) are, makes a lot more sense to me than trying to discover and understand an entity who seems rather bent on not revealing himself in any observable form." -Tayana42

"Sexism is weird. I think about it like I think about anti-Semites. Just outdated weird bigotry. Don't they have more modern people to hate?" -Mags

"Should theists or atheists care if yet another symbol is defiled in protest, even if that symbol has no meaning to us? If the Koran or the Bible is just a bunch of words on pages, then does it not follow that the flag is just a colored cloth - both of which are probably made in Taiwan? Are any symbols sacred?" -mymallandnew

"Since atheism has no doctrinal basis and requires no adherence from adherents, you are entirely free to invent or discover your own principles that make your life happier. That is the wonderful thing about being freed from dogmaÂ—you really are free." -Prismatic

"Since baptism involves water, I think debaptism needs to involve fire." -Mags

"Since the sarcasm part of my brain seems to be overdeveloped, I'm going to blame my poor social skills on the environment in general." -RH3

"Skepticism is of far more value than atheism." -C12(Citizen12)

"Slavery has gone out of style in the West now and preachers have changed their tune accordingly. The Bible hasn't changed. It still authorizes slavery." -SusannahHB

"Slavery was very much supported by the Bible. The pious arguments of the south were Biblical arguments. If one were to take all their morality from the Bible, abolitionism might as well have been satanism." - Tatarize

"Slowly, slowly, the world began to come around to accepting science. One by one, religious pronouncements fell to advancing knowledge. Now religionists are saying, "Can't we all just get along?" That's the equivalent of crying "uncle." Religionists are basically suing for peace. It means that science is finally doing well enough that it competes with nonsense." -FrankDK

"slowly, the churches have lost their hold on agriculture, on medicine, on taxes, on marriage, on everything. All it has left is the afterlife, and one day the last priest will prattle to the last worshipper, and it will be gone." -deadwombat

"Smoking that Obama weed will really fvck you up! This isn't nearly as funny as I thought it would be, but that won't stop me from posting it." -BenMcd

"Smooth jazz is neither smooth nor jazz. Discuss." -Qwerty Uiop

"So a true home consists of the woman who's womb was her childrens home from the beginning and the man who placed them in her home". - Bodhitharta

"So God isn't omnipotent after all. He seems to be quite a bungler. If a government contractor made a world and it came out the opposite of the way it was intended, the contractor would be fired. Time to fire your god and get a new one." -FrankDK

"So long as atheism is made to seem like an irrational bizarre position fit only for communists and idiots who think we're monkeys then Christian children are safe from the war of ideas." -Tatarize

"So to 'obey god', all I need to do is not violate the laws of nature. Which, really, is quite easy - since I've found it to be impossible to violate the laws of nature. Gravity keeps doing the gravity thing, electromagnetism keeps doing the electromagnetism thing, weak force keeps doing the weak force thing, strong force keeps doing the strong force thing, quantum mechanics keeps doing the whatever-the-heck-quantum-mechanics-is thing." - Eljay

"So to you, a sign of love isn't, for instance, saying to the person you love, "I forgive your bad deeds, because I love you. It's OKay. A sign of love would be saying, "I love you, but because you did something wrong I have to kill you. But because I love you SO much, I'll kill someone else instead." - mrbehemoth

"So, no, we don't "stone them out of love" We love them so they won't be stoned." - Bodhidartha

"So, what drives this atheist? All sorts of stuff. Love for my wife. An insatiable thirst for knowledge. A desire to live not extravagantly but comfortably. And perhaps to make the world a better place through contributing to the spread of reason, science and logic. These are MY purposes in life." -Dreamer-71

"So, what you're saying is, the real reason we have swear words and consider some words obscene is so that those of us who don't have Tourette's can have a greater appreciation for those who do? Works for me; afterall, who wants to be in some high society polite company situation and have to observe some twitchy bastard continually barking out the word "chair"? -Nota

"Some days I think I'd like to be religious, if only because there are things I'd like to be able to thank a god for. The Microsoft Word/About forum bug, for example." - RevDave

"Some doctrines do place women in arrears and there are some Islam beliefs that belive women should have a clitioral-dychtomy." - Ginger09 (Christian)

"Some people call me Jesus, but only on my coke-donkey trips to Mexico." -mrbehemoth

"Somehow we turned a page somewhere in the last century where people think a hundred year old + vampire going out with a girl in high school is totally non creepy." -DarkAngel

"Someone give me an idea for a memorable quote, so I can take it." -Tanner

"Sometimes talking with you reminds me of trying to nail jello to a wall. First, when you think you have it pinned down it jiggles away, then you wonder why the hell you're even trying to do this." - Tatarize

"Sorry, but that is how atheists live their lives...eating, pooping and try as you may they cannot understand spiritual things, it just sounds like a noisy bell to them." -Bodhitharta

"Sorry, I don't go in for this touchy-feely crap. You want to judge my beliefs, go ahead. I have nothing to be ashamed of as far as my beliefs go. Everyone is entitled to have their beliefs, but that does not mean they are entitled to be free from criticism of their beliefs." -Tony

"Sorry, I've hit a political bottom of cynicism. Everything looks hopeless from where I sit. I don't even care that much anymore. I should be worried about the fact that I don't care, but I don't care about that either." -Tayana42

"Speaking of abstinence, maybe we could ask all the Catholics to abstain from having any more kids. Just what the world needs: more papist- pap-regurgitating godnuts who think birth control is a sin in a world where 6 billion clueless breeding bipeds are chewing up the planet and spitting it out in each other's faces. I used to blame the priests, but, Hell, lots of them started as altar boys and they just sort of got sucked into it. I kid because I love." -Crosshatch

"Spirituality" is one of those concepts that gets bandied about so often by people who want to avoid having their off the wall ideas associated with the off the wall ideas of organized religion, and is used to mean so many different things that it has become virtually meaningless in itself." -Tony

"Spontaneity is absolutely impossible without meticulous preparation." -mrbehemoth

"Stupid camping mistakes are evolution's way of weeding out the stupid campers." -Flux

"Such is the human condition. Having enlightened ourselves as much as possible, we can do no more. But what we can do, if nothing else, is admit the conflict between what we know and what we feel." - DougofCal

"Sufficiently advanced ineffability is indistinguishable from non-existence." -Yoghurt (Vaxholm)

"Teaching creationism as science would also be fun. Showing children how to apply scientific principles to problem solving is best done with familiar yet easily disposed of theories." -JK234

"Thank you for informing us that you do not let your admitted ignorance get in the way of forming your opinions. This admission allows those reading your posts to accord them all the value they deserve." -chip

"That you even think you make an argument leads me to believe you're one of those cranky, jealous philosophers who wished you'd made room for at least a couple science classes in between your mind-expanding adventures involving sugar cubes and brownies." -jqhiggins

"That's a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Except in this case, the kettle is stainless steel, and the pot is a lonely black moron." -Psykomakia

"That's a terribly big word. If you have progressed far enough to use such big words, perhaps now you can go back and see if you're capable of reading that which exceeded your abilities earlier." -mrbehemoth

"That's all good and well, but I still say gay fruit flies should not be allowed to adopt maggots or lead Scout troops." -Mrreindeer

"That's my view on real life matters too. Don't ban books or ideas, ridicule them in the extreme. Do not allow them the way of darkness and subterfuge." - Simanos

"That's what I say. Based on average life expectancy and what I have read about the effects of global warming, I should die just about the time the water reaches my ankles." -Tony

"That's what so many of these apologists don't get. They go on and on trying to "prove" Josephus wrote the TF, or that Nazareth actually existed in the first century, or that Hitler wasn't a Christian or... As if, if we just got those details "right", we would have to be Christians. Interesting to cross swords over, sure. Totally irrelevant to the existence or non-existence of God." -SusannahHB

"That's why I post - not to change your mind but to refine my mind." -mymallandnew

"The (putative) existence of a vague desire for some sort of relationship does not imply the existence of a being with whom to have that relationship, let alone one greater than ourselves." -RH3

"The ability to inspire, whatever the Hell that means, is apparently a desireable trait, even if people don't have a clue why it is they are inspired, or what they are inspired about." -Tayana42

"The acid or lithmus-test of an ethical system consists - for me, at least - in our willingness to live by its rules, find them sensible for my life and open to public discourse and political debate, not in our ability to accept what has been handed down by our forefathers and our ability to train our children in it before they can even develop their own independent judgment. Some ethical systems survive by procreation. I do not like them." -Empiricus

"The assumption here appears to be that the many people in question opposed the Holocaust. What is the basis for the assumption? Without that assumption I think that something more opposite is likely true: The Holocaust happened because many strong-willed people overcame their natural sympathies for their fellows, sacrificed their civility, and did horrible things because they thought it was right." -BeelzehostAA

"The attempt to redefine "God" or whatever, as "everything" or as Tillich has it, "the ground of all being" is the last refuge of the theologian who recognises the embarrassment of belief in a god defined in such crude and unbelievable terms as those used in the Bible or Koran but wants to continue to have his "subject" taken seriously." -Fox

"The attitudes behind it are the real problem I think. If people didn't consider it distracting, slutty and immoral to wear short skirts or show your ankles, if society didn't assume that it's a struggle for men to contain themselves...then who would decide to wear a burka?" -Mags

"The Baha'i faith is like different grade levels of a school, you progress through them all just to find out in the end that the school is not accredited." -Tatarize

"The best thing about plants is, when they die, they're already half-buried." -MrReindeer

"The best way to get rid of rabbits is to confuse them, and the best way to confuse them is to plant clumps of updock around the place." - RH3

"The bible cites cases of those who've seen God. The bible makes it clear that they did not see "spatio-temporal representations of God" - they saw God, Himself. The Male God, Jehovah - who cannot be seen. The omnipotent one who was helpless against iron chariots. The omniscient one who didn't know where Adam and Eve were hiding. The Very Embodiment of Truth, who lied to Adam and Eve. The Merciful God who turned an old lady into a pillar of salt for the high crime of taking one last look at the only home she'd ever known and was being forced to flee to escape His Holy Wrath. The Bringer of Peace, who demands that his followers bathe in Blood."-chip

"The Bible does mention unicorns and giants. But, no. No dinosaurs..." -Tatarize

"The Bible is a great source of comfort for those who have not read it." -Eljay

"The bible, just like all other religious writings, is nothing more than the result of human wishing, fantasy and occasional mushroom-induced hallucinations." -Seeker

"The body of Christ tastes a little better with the strawberry jam of Christ on it." -Eljay

"The Catholic traditions really helped me overcome it all, in the end. Because they are so uniform, and I am so bullheaded, it finally got to me that I was just following along like a sheep. Those same beliefs made me a raging bigot for a number of years, which I gradually overcame by realizing I was a douche." -djfoxwvqs

"The culture-dependency of near-death experiences told speak for themselves - appearances of angels or Mother Mary for the Xians, mythical beasts for the Hindu, boddhisatvas for the (Mahayana) Buddhists, and relief and darkness for the atheist." -Empiricus

"The danger is in embracing irrational beliefs by building an edifice of superstition on a foundation of ignorance." -Eljay

"The day someone becomes a Christian without ever having met a Christian, seen a church, or heard of the Bible, I might start thinking there's something to it. Same applies to all other religions, of course." -mrbehemoth

"The difference between science and religion: science re-interprets dogma in light of new data, religion re-interprets new data in light of dogma." -Zontor

"The easiest way to find a purpose in life is to buy one of the ready-made one-size-fits-all guaranteed-for-life purposes for sale by religious sects or political groups. Many people find these very satisfactory and have no need of anything else. More discriminating people look for tailor-made purposes cut to their life situation and their talents. These are generally of higher quality and more stylish. Best of all perhaps are those one-of-a-kind home-made self-designed purposes. They are the most individualistic, but they take a lot of time and effort." -Prismatic

"The fact that Christ was the blood sacrifice just goes to prove the point that it's about blood sacrifice. Saying that Jesus was the blood sacrifice to end all blood sacrifices is really just showing that at the core of Christianity is blood sacrifice." -Tatarize

"The fact that some people accept the myth of two childish, innocent dimwits in a fancy garden of everlasting happiness and pointlessness, written by some ancient goat-herders, as the most likely origin of humanity, instead of accepting one of the most elegant and best supported explanations science has to offer, perfectly demonstrates that evolution is more "concerned" with "creating" species that are able to survive, rather than those that are most intelligent and rational." -Skaryon

"The fact that such uncertainty is not merely possible but intellectually justified suggests that Christianity is not the sort of thing we would expect from God." -RH3

"The fact that you cannot discern the sense of what I am saying is not necessarily an indication as to whether I am making any or not." -mrbehemoth

"The fear of punishment is what keeps the religion strong and influential over the simple minded people. Religion is a tool to control people and bend them, through fear, to the will of those in power." -lahatte

"The fittest do not necessarily survive and the weakest do not necessarily perish. But that is the way I bet." -GonzoHost

"The human experience transcends all culture. Culture is what your particular tribe does to deal with that experience. All humans are born, experience adolescence, mate, rear ungrateful children, experience illness and eventual death. Every culture has rituals and celebrations surrounding those experiences." -meow

"The I.D. group makes itself a laughing stock. Trouble is, not enough people get the joke." -Marie Siduri

"The idea that our species of primate - that's only been in existence for a couple of hundred thousand of the thirteen billion years or so since the formation of the universe - is so pivotal to the alleged creator of the cosmos that he's created billions of galaxies with billions of stars in each merely as wallpaper for our enjoyment is one of the least humble suppositions I've ever encountered." -Mo

"The idea that the J/C/I god made people so he could have love is like a teen girl having a baby for the same reason." -apmom1266

"The juvenile sea squirt wanders through the sea searching for a suitable rock or hunk of coral to cling to and make its home for life. For this task it has a rudimentary nervous system. When it finds its spot and takes root, it doesn't need its brain any more so it eats it. It's rather like getting tenure." -RH3

"The lyrics of Gilligan's Island aren't worthless. They teach us to avoid three hour tours, three hour tours." -Tatarize

"The Meaning of Life is to evolve to the point where the organism develops the cognitive capacity to ask the question "What is the Meaning of Life"? For non-sapient organisms, the Meaning of Life is to live a meaningless life." -Eljay

"The metaphor that I came up with for this is that religion (or at least the theology part) is like doodling sea-monsters in the blank spots on ancient maps. It's harmless fun as long as no one actually takes it seriously." -Keepwe

"The more words you use to argue a simple concept, the more chances you have to hide an important fallacy in verbiage, and convince yourself and others that it is logical." -Tayana42

"The most insidious form of discrimination which undermines the very core of modern thinking is to make politically incorrect jokes about those who are trying to be politically correct." -Tayana

"The only "white lies" allowed in a family are what people are giving each other for Christmas, and telling Auntie Em she looks much better today. Not that your father is Satan's interpreter, and you will go to hell for listening to him." -Meow

"The only angel I believe in is angel food cake, and the only miracle I believe in is miracle whip. Not because I like those items, but because I know they exist." -Curtt

"The only place creationism (or creationist ideas) has in the classroom is as an example of how far people will go to defend a cherished idea in the face of the facts." - Fluffy666

"The only reason why you can't prove God's non-existence to a believer is because, by assuming the existence of the supernatural, he has rejected the only existing tool of provability - reason." -FirstCowboy

"The only time I wouldn't want to die is after saying "God if you exist, strike me dead!" Which I have done from time to time in religious arguments. I can easily come to terms with death, But whoever I would be arguing with at the time would take that as proof of God. That I wouldn't like And, being dead, I wouldn't be able to argue that my death was just very coincidental." -Tatarize

"The Papacy is like the British Secret Service. If you manage to get rid of 007, 008 will just take his place and continue the mission". -Gonzo

"The prime function of this forum is to give pedantic smart-asses like us a place to criticize the lower orders." -RH3

"The problem is, I read Mark 16:18, and there the Holy Scripture has it that a believer can handle poisonous snakes, drink poisonous fluids, and heal the sick. Try as I might, I don't think I can pull this stuff off. So I picture a real faithful believer like yourself, while in your car driving to the nearest hospital to cure all those patients, has a cobra crawling up one arm and quaffing down a pint of Drano with the other, showing that the Holy Scriptures are indeed accurate." -JQHiggins

"The problem with moderate Christians (or moderate Muslims for that matter) is they seem to cut the fundamentalists of their own faith some slack, probably out of some feeling of brotherhood. ItÂ’s dangerous, in my opinion, because it quietly gives credibility to some fanatical beliefs which run contrary to the good of society." -Tayana42

"The problem with things having rational explanations is you have to be rational to find them. Without this prerequisite we get aliens, demons, gods and ghosts." -Tatarize

"The reason why we can apply logic to politics or sports and come up with valid understandings but fail with theology is not because the Emperor's gown is so exquisite that it defies our reasoning and perception, but because it isn't there." -Tatarize

"The reason why you're not seeing any of those is that it's an unstable state, like some rare particles you can only see in particle accelerators. You can have a theist of semi-coherent thinking in a vaccuum, but as soon as it is exposed to the Internet (thus, information), it collapses either into incoherent thinking or into an atheist." -DarkAngel

"The religious are humanity's ball-and-chain." -Citizen12

"The same nature that produces a beautiful butterfly also produces an ugly engorged deer tick. If beauty is evidence of a higher power, then ugliness surely must be counter evidence." -Ozy666

"The sexes have two different purposes but they are equal in effect. Women are treasured more than men and that's why men are overseers of women." - Bodhitharta

"The simplified theology of Protestant fundamentalism is just like American fast-food: pre-digested, not a lot to chew, lacking in nutrition, leaving you hungry for more, and of course, it's very, very bad for you." -Mo

"The theist's life is that of cattle, all grazing along waiting for slaughter and deluding themselves that the Farmer keeps them around because he loves them (in anything else than BBQ sauce)." -DarkAngel

"The theists (figuratively) shoot themselves in the head, never mind the foot, all the time. The trouble is, they don't feel any pain and compliment each other on the improved ventilation." - Powers

"The type of dancing I do (and places I hang in), if nobody gets a fist in the face by accident during the whole night then that means the band was boring." -DarkAngel

"The Vatican is just practicing the first rule of amateur tap dancing: wave your hands a lot and they won't notice you're not doing much with your feet." -Prismatic

"The virtue of honesty is highly overrated in any discourse with a delusional person." -JQ HIGGINS

"The whole bible is stories, just ink on a page. If you choose to base your life on it and your arcane analysis of "holy" scripture, then I'll take the yellow pages. My local butcher actually has relevance to my life unlike the mythical figures of your fairy stories." -freeksngeeks

"There are many definitions to the word 'truth'. The truth I mean is what conforms to reality. And one of my core beliefs is that I should in every way I can, make sure my beliefs are as close to conforming to reality, to being true, as I can." -MaxHarper

"There are plenty of nutjobs, and they're not all Christians; similarly there are plenty of Christians, and they're not all nutjobs. What cannot be denied, though, is there is a sizeable overlap between the two groups." -RevDave

"There are too many dubious characters arriving in Australia these days. Anyway, seeing them swinging from the lamposts will encourage the rest of the populace to take education seriously." -RH3

"There is a difference between skepticism based on knowledge, and skepticism based on ignorance." -Ozy666

"There is a lot of really good music in opera, but you can hardly hear it because of all the fat people screaming." - RH3

"There is a move to teach both creationism and evolution and to let the student decide. But no one wants to teach high schoolers tantric sex techniques and abstinence at the same time to let them decide." -MSiduri

"There is no evidence for intelligent design. None. The nearest any IDer has come to providing any is pointing to something and saying it "looks" designed, whatever that means. That's about as scientific as looking at clouds and saying, "Ooh, look! A horsie! And there's a bunny and a choo-choo train!" -Rev Dave

"There is no point to the universe. It just is. Same with life and death. They don't need capital letters for me, they just are. And, since I have life, I am going to enjoy it as much as I can without hurting others." -Mags

"There is nothing good in blind belief. At least liberal christians are trying to create a more or less decent god, one you can show your neighbours without too much embarassment." -Grahor

"There is nothing wrong with not knowing. There is nothing wrong with doubt. Belief on faith alone is not the virtue Christians say it is. It is intellectually honest to remain neutral in the face of unanswerable questions. Believing in the absurd on faith is irresponsible." -Tayana42

"There is still a lot we don't know, but with a long history of man finding the answers to things that once were attributed to a god, it would be a safe bet that today's questions will one day be answered with rational explanations instead of theological ones." -apostateofthelord

"There may be some ultimate truths out there, but neither the theist nor the scientist can know what they are, although sometimes in our need to explain things we confuse what we believe with what we know, and at some higher level of obfuscation we confuse either what we believe or what we know with truth. Given our limitations, I even wonder if truth is relevant." -easyD2

"There was a time when I never thought I would write that a country was better off when it was run by a brutal, repressive, murderous, war-mongering, CIA-sponsored, paranoid, thug." -RH3

"There was Dawson's Creek several years ago. Jen was an atheist. Nothing ever went right for her and she ended up dying of cancer." -Tatarize

"There was nothing wrong with those sentences. Your brain is structurally poor." -BenMcD

"There you go again, putting the words "fundy" and "read" in the same sentence." -RH3

"There's a difference between an "argumentum ad hominem" and a simple insult. The former is a logical fallacy, the latter is often merely satisfying." -Ozy666

"There's a difference between having a "right" and doing the right thing. People have the right to be bigoted and discriminatory in many situations...that doesn't mean others shouldn't condemn them for it." -Ozy666

"There's nothing wrong with saying "I don't know," but that's not what they're doing-- they're saying you can't know, because the answer lies in some privileged supernatural order. Bullhocky. Miracles are coincidences that you make personal." Rillion

"These 'values' that are 'promoted' transcend christianity or any dogmatic literature. Sometimes the right thing to do is just the right thing to do. No dogma necessary." -lahatte

"These things are simply not immoral, your disbelief is immoral. And Yes, Slapping your own parent warrants death." -Bodhitharta

"They are right, I admit it. I really believe in god, but he just pisses me off so much, I've put him on Ignore til he starts behaving himself. Sort of a cosmic Time-Out." -Meow

"They've (the KKK) had a marketing makeover. They're called The Tea Party now." -Eljay

"This forum is an ongoing work of art, reason, wisdom and civility, after all. To destroy its content would be akin to burning the Library of Alexandria!" -Mo

"This has been another installment of Logical Fallacy Theatre, brought to you by the Slippery Slope, the Argumentum ad Absurdum, and a grant from the Non Sequitur Foundation. Thank you, and good night. <cue theme music>" - Flux

"This is not the first time I have almost died by taking an antacid incorrectly." -Deadwombat

"This is one of the immoral doctrines Christianity has promoted. The notion that everyone is guilty of a sin in which they had no choice or intention is an evil notion and shows the corrupt nature of Christian faith." -Prismatic

"This is the defense mechanism of your religious meme at work. Without it, you'd understand that the reason we don't see God is because ALL the objectively verifiable evidence suggests that no God exists. But since your religious meme 'wants' to protect and reproduce itself, you are forced by it to conclude that all the objectively verifiable evidence is wrong and that, instead, your subjective beliefs not only trump reality, but everyone else's beliefs too." -chip

"This just in: Bush is a dick and a dumbass. Also, everyone should pretend to convert to Islam to see what would happen. That would be entertaining. What would you do, Osama? What wouuuuld you do?" -Mags

"This latest action by Israel is purely out of the South Africa Apartheid book. South Africa had no more right to keep South Africa 'white' and disenfranchise blacks as Israel does to keep itself 'Jewish' and disenfranchise Arabs." -Simon

"This whole thread has descended into pornographic pictures, discussions about sex, and plans to destroy the universe." -RH3

"Those of us who have stepped beyond such plebeian definitions understand full well that the nature of the god proposed by Christians is one of evil, pure and simple. Now, if you want to say that an all-powerful evil entity can "redefine" his evil as good, you're more than welcome to try and make that argument." -Ozy666

"Three Cheung's in one thread! The technique is simple. Never reply to your opponent's points of view, but challenge his basis for knowing anything at all. Tell him his reasoning is self-refuting and nonsensical. He will get sucked into defending his reasoning and you never have to deal with his points." -Prismatic

"Time heals all wounds. But, of course it's 100% fatal so it's not much of a cure." -Tatarize

"To find an orientation point in all the GOP, tea party, birther, Democratic stew today, I found the Johnny Depp "Alice In Wonderland" movie on HBO and watched the whole thing through. Now I feel as though I can get a grasp on what's going on." -Rozmarija

"To me, religions and beliefs in gods is more likely to be wishful thinking by fearful, superstitious and primitive people than it is to be truth. More like "Well, that is a bunch of nonsense." rather than "I deny those beliefs with my own beliefs!" - Readzalot

"To me, the moral simply is, If you donÂ’t like these things, quit making war or stop acting like itÂ’s all about bravery, patriotism, and heroism. War is about suffering, fear, greed, and the ultimate human degradation.Â” -EasyD2

"To search for and know the truth is the closest I get to what some may call a spiritual path. That's why I read and listen; I take language courses so I can read more and listen to more people. I travel and see as much of the world as possible. I do all this just for the joy of knowledge. Life is its own purpose. We don't have to hunt for a reason to justify our existence." -apostateofthelord

"To speak of faith, then, is to speak of nothing substantial. One who says "I believe because of faith" only says "I believe because I believe." Believers typically seem to mean nothing more, except for the few who will admit that for them, faith means never having to say you were wrong." -DougofCal

"Trying to prove god with the bible is like trying to prove Superman with a comic book." -Robgene

"Turning theist is like embarking on Gullible's Travels." -Rev.Martini

"Uncritical Biblical scholarship is like a bunch of "Dungeons and Dragons" geeks discussing the exact parameters of Level 5 Wizard powers." -GonzoHost

"Underneath this is a great fear of the doubt and skepticism that atheism represents: the denial of their cherished realities. They are afraid that if one person can doubt (after all the convincing evidence they have assembled), then there might be a crack in the foundation that will bring down the whole edifice."- Prismatic

"Usually its the theists who come here with room temperature IQs. Lately we've had some atheists who I wouldn't mind seeing acquire a god belief." -curtt

"We all die, and Jesus would have died anyway, but no, there has to be this horrid story about a sacrificial bloodletting of an innocent man. I'd be just as happy if he would have simply died in his sleep at the age of 85 and pronounced us all forgiven before he went to bed." -Tayana42

"We all have an invisible tattoo of a helicopter on our left butt cheek, which can only be seen using black light. So if you can get Simon Cowell naked in a dark room, you can find out for sure if he's an atheist without actually asking him." -Rillion

"We can discuss people who have these visions. We can try to figure out why we are in such awe when they express those visions with oil on canvas and why when they verbalize those visions we tend to move to the other side of the room." -CarquinezRed

"We determine the true religion using guidelines laid down by the founder of one of them? That doesn't seem like kind of a rigged game to you?" -MrBehemoth

"We just get angry at the thought of non-atheists of a certain type entering our little atheist club. Like the white trash at the Balmy Beach Club taking umbrage at a brain-damaged orangutan stumbling into the dining room and vomiting in their soup." -mrbehemoth

"We make God in our own image. And I have just a big enough ego that I can be turned on by that. Especially since I don't look like a hippo/possum/snake/scooby-doo thing." -Saurian200

"We'd eat a vegetarian? I'm in! The irony would be... delicious." -Flux

"We've seen Jindal's type here many times: people who insist on assigning attributes and characteristics to atheists and atheism which bear no connection to reality. They seem unable to understand that all of atheism is contained in one simple sentence: I don't believe in God. There's nothing else, but of course that would make a very short article, so it's necessary to insert a bit of padding." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"Well, he have a point. It can't be denied, that Steve Irwin actively asked for it. While any loss of life is a tragedy, of sorts, some tragedies are just less equal than others." -Grahor

"Well, I am a pro-life atheist, so that ought to make your head explode." -AtheistKeith

"Well, I suppose we shouldn't expect more from people who trained from early childhood to ignore cognitive dissonance. "God loves all mankind and he sent a great flood to drown them." "Our god is a loving god, and he will send you to hell to suffer for all eternity if you don't believe it." -Citizen12

"Well, if nuts sprinkled on a turd is your idea of a banana split, then the Republican Party is a banana split." -curtt

"Well, lah-dee-dah! All of a sudden I have to start wearing pants? When did this place get so posh?" -Flux

"Well, Lo, I don't loathe puns. It's just when SnoopyLucy gets on one of her tears she goes at it with all the fervor of an evangelist missionary who's trying to convert a bunch of naked pygmies." -ptcarnahan

"Well, since no theistic philosophy could ever possibly endorse naughty deeds, any naughty deeds are obviously the result of atheistic philosophy by definition." -mrbehemoth

"Well, that sucks. What's the point of being a physicist if you don't get to bash things into each other at near-light speeds?" - Seth

"Were I King of the World, I'd decree that churches must abide by truth-in-advertising laws. Given that I am not, I shall sit idly by, dismayed that the mind of the world has rarely had more than a nodding aquaintance with reason." - chip

"What I am getting at here is that you didn't choose a faith because some god told you to. No god has ever told anyone anything. You chose a faith because you have some need to hold some belief and christianity seems to have been convenient for you." -lahatte

"What I am saying is that despite the increasing opportunities to cry out loud that our political and religious leaders so "generously" provide for us, there remains enough wonder in the world that scepticism need never dampen one's ability to enjoy the truly sublime and beautiful." -Fox

"What if we don't want free will? God gives it to us anyway. By forcing us to have free will, isn't he taking our free will away from us? Therefore we have no free will. God needs a spanking." -Rev.Conor

"What is your native language. Is it tongues?" -Shawwanossoway

"What kind of crap is this forced pledge recital anyway? For a pledge to have value, it must be taken freely." -Yoghurt

"What planet did this guy stick his head up his ass on?" -Tony

"What the several writers who wrote about Jesus wrote [was] a variation of the truth known as a lie". - Eljay

"When Adams "womb" was placed in EVE she became a "Wombed" Man i.e. woman. Mankind is composed of Males (without wombs) and Females (with wombs). They are both a kind of Man, hence the term Mankind." -Bodhitharta

"When dealing with someone who thinks a circular argument is logical, one can expect the conversation to travel as far as a horse on a carousel." -AtheistKeith

"When did our society become so stupid that they can't understand fractional dimensions?" -Dingo

"When I left the Catholic church I was determined to make my own life choices, not have them dictated for me. They weren't perfect. Some things worked out well, others didn't. But I wouldn't trade the freedom to make those choices for anything, even if I might have done some things differently." -SusanL12

"When it comes to their religion, theists tend to think in sound bites rather than in an organized way that requires thoughtful analysis, and I donÂ’t do well with sound bites. Anything worth thinking about requires more time and thought for me to involve myself with." -Tayana42

"When life gives you lemons, smash the lemons with your heel, go eat a bunch of expensive candy and laugh at semi-literate creationists on this forum who try to "debunk" evolution." -AtheistKeith

"When tempered with wisdom and experience, I don't see religiosity as being a necessarily bad thing. Organized religion, however, hijacks and corrupts religiosity. Organized religion is to religiosity what cancer is to cell division." -AtheistKeith

"When we bomb a country back to the stone age, we aren't really in a position to complain when stone age ideologies emerge." -Mark Boyd

"When you get arrested coming out of a gay bar and it makes all the news stations, that isn't coming out of the closet. It's getting thrown out of the closet." -Tony

"When you make statements that are just opinions and expect them to be respected as facts, you're going to be very disappointed." -KayKay

"Whenever possible, I always tick the "Other" box on forms, no matter what the question might be. I also put postage stamps on sideways, but that's a different matter, I suppose." -Superhop

"Whenever the question of religion and science comes up, people always look like morons or atheists. We atheists don't have a problem with it, and neither do the morons." -Tatarize

"Where a bear of very little brain who can't tell a logical argument from a bowl of petunias notices only that whenever he argues he gets verbal abuse, which he takes to mean that he must be one of the persecuted righteous and so must be doing something right." -Keepwe

"Whether it's a formula, a worldview or an hypothesis, Occam's Razor will provide you with the closest shave you've ever seen! Say NO to factors that don't factor. Eliminate unrated ratios. A clean explanation is the hallmark of a clean mind!" -Seeker

"Whether or not I'm happy with what I believe is irrelevant. My beliefs are not and cannot be determined by what would make me happy. My beliefs are determined by what I can justify." - Seth351

"Whether or not someone can call themselves "Jewish" seems to me to be so insignificant, it's hardly worth mentioning. And to reach a conclusion regarding the issue by trying to decipher the written and oral traditions of folks that have been dead for thousands of years is weird at best. Everyone needs a hobby, I guess." -Saint Bengel

"While it is a lie, and I think lies are, as a rule, bad, the worst part of a lie is the disrepect it shows those you tell them to. If the disrespect is intended, then go for it." -vaxholm

"While oatmeal might help lower your cholesterol, I don't think I'd recommend allowing it to saturate your head any longer." -elmeraho

"Who won? The terrorists on both sides. In Lebanon, Hezbollah came out looking like protectors and rebuilders, while Israel comes across as the oppressor, targeting civilians. In Israel the warmongers came out looking strong, no-nonsense, you-hit-us-we-kill-you leaders. It's a victory for violence." - Aspie

"Why believe any of it? You are just picking and choosing the bits that fit in with your world view. It is not that the Bible informs your world view, it is that your world view determines which parts of the Bible you will accept as being believable." - Goldblock

"Why human sacrifice? Because humans are a more worthy sacrifice than any amount of animals. The religions are ego-filled but not humanitarian." -Tatarize

"Winning a Nobel Prize does not make one's position on a non-related subject any stronger. This is just an argument from authority fallacy, with the Nobel Prize Committee acting as the authority." -VeryIrreverentRichard

"Wishful thinking does not constitute evidence. Faith does not constitute evidence. Irrational belief does not constitute evidence. Anecdote, hearsay, and rumor does not constitute evidence. Untenable authoritarian dogma does not constitute evidence. Lack of reason, damaged critical thinking, and lack of logic is not a substitute for evidence." -Eljay

"Wow, that post was like a concerto of stupid, played on the insanophone." -mrbehemoth

"Yeah, at least sex, while observed from the outside, can make you laugh." -Grahor

"Yep, women and Religion. Go figure! You'd think they'd be at the forefront of leading us away from it toward something where you can be kind and decent and marvel at Life minus the hocus pocus. Then again, they bought millions of Thigh Masters." -Crosshatch

"Yes, there's a reason why both "psi" researchers and creationists/ID proponents have to publish in their own respective journals -- because they've failed the criteria needed to be taken seriously by real science." -Flux55

"You always hear about how fat Americans have gotten, but when the camera pans across the crowd at Wimbledon.... it's good to have widescreen." -Twsh

"You are a breathtaking paragon of unintentional irony." -Ibn Tumart

"You are confusing forced slavery with voluntary slavery." - Boditharta

"You are too easily impressed if you think, 'Define your god specifically, and present actual evidence for its existence', is a highly sophisticated critique." -Tenpin3

"You can just thank the Holy Elmer the Chrisians have lost their heretic-burning privileges or you'd be toast." -TSShagnasty

"You cannot be offered your life in enchange for a choice and still call it free. The cosmic rapist cannot rape me and still say he loves me by offering me a choice, his way or hell." -Iconoclast

"You chicks always think we're being condescending. But we really just think you're doing a great job with all those big hard science words, and you look cute with a test tube." -mrbehemoth

"You don't like the label? Tough, because I shall continue to categorize you as religious. I have no better classification for the sort of supernatural, zero evidence beliefs that you seem to have." - Nazrani

"You have to appreciate that on this forum a thread about "Hitler and Christianity" can end up discussing broccoli and dogs." -Saint Bengel

"You know a stance is truly stupid when, to make fun of it, you need only quote it." -Atheist Keith

"You know I tried being original but I found there are already so many original people around here, I just became one of the crowd." -arjaypet

"You know you're a geek when science mistakes in movie previews nearly kill you." -BenMcD

"You know, I was tempted to answer that, but that would propel my geekhood into the stratosphere so I'll just pretend I have no idea." -Ibn Tumart

"You know, that adorable sig pic is the only thing that keeps your posts from being a complete waste of bandwidth." -Queen Maeve

"You know, they just don't make ape-shite netloonies like they used to." -Mo

"You lost. You lost miserably. It was the most embarrassing defeat since your parents tried to raise a sentient being." -mrbehemoth

"You may not be stupid, but you certainly do a flawless impersonation." -DeadWombat

"You must be one of those transitional humans the evolutionists are always talking about. Not quite ape... but close." - Twsh

"You must learn to express yourself in ways people can understand. It is essential for you to learn this so that you can earn a living when you flunk out of college." -freeksngeeks

"You need to learn the Way of the Wombat. Be cynical, be untrusting. You spend your life being pleasantly surprised or being proved correct. There is no downside." -DeadWombat

"You never see a weapon with a smiley face on it. There's a reason for that." -SnoopyLucy

"You seem to want to debate a deity, when I just want to perpetuate a truth." -Ginger09 (Christian)

"You should probably deal with the real problems of our world instead of those imposed by your own ignorance and bigotry. But then again, that wouldn't be very christian of you, would it? " -Skaryon

"You should really emit a beeping sound, what with all that back-pedaling." -Flux55

"You want to relieve suffering? Take all the vast amounts of time, money, and resources that are wasted worshipping delusions, building expensive edifices to the glory of illusions, paying salaries for the shills of illusions, and providing expensive baubles for the purveyors of illusions and turn it to bettering the lot of mankind." -NonProphet

"You're probably familiar with the saying "Trying to get Atheists to agree is like trying to hurt cats. Although I don't know why anyone would want to hurt cats......well, besides the obvious." - nota

"You've made it waaay too complicated. Just don't seethe a goat in its mother's milk and you'll be fine. All that other stuff is out-of-date nonsense and allegory." -MrBunny2

"Your mistake, Sinnecul, is that you are trying to persuade me with the facts." -John76

"Your understanding is dictated by your dogma, not reality. The question of *how* to think with it is irrelevant. Faith is not a way of thinking. It is a way to avoid thinking." -DougofCal

"Zombies, after all, are the result of an experimental virus that was released accidentally from a government lab. That's science. Vampires are just myths." -Tony