http://wiki.ironchariots.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Daskraut&feedformat=atomIron Chariots Wiki - User contributions [en]2013-05-19T16:19:08ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.18.1http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=TyreTyre2012-07-28T04:55:49Z<p>Daskraut: typo...</p>
<hr />
<div>Some Christian apologists bring up the history of the city of Tyre, a city in [[Wikipedia:Lebanon|Lebanon]], as evidence for the validity of biblical [[prophecy]] and the existence of the biblical [[god]]. Allegedly the history of Tyre resembles a 100% exact fulfilment of the prophecies in [[Ezekiel]] 26 – 28.<br />
<br />
<br />
==First of all==<br />
The gist of the prophecy is: Ezekiel predicted, that the city of Tyre would be completely and permanently annihilated and wiped off of the map. This never happened, the city still stands. Any discussion or debate could end right here, but let's look at some details:<br />
<br />
==Ezekiel 26, 7 - 9==<br />
''7 For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.''<br />
<br />
''8 He shall slay with the sword thy daughters in the field: and he shall make a fort against thee, and cast a mount against thee, and lift up the buckler against thee. ''<br />
<br />
''9 And he shall set engines of war against thy walls, and with his axes he shall break down thy towers.''<br />
<br />
{{Bible|Ezekiel 26:7-9}}<br />
<br />
'''These verses indicate clearly that Nebuchadnezzar would bank up a causeway, use it to breach the walls of Tyre and storm the city.''' <br />
<br />
*[[Wikipedia:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] II. (604-562 [[BCE]]) started banking up a causeway, but he did not finish or use it. [[Wikipedia:Alexander the Great|Alexander the Great]] did. <br />
*Nebuchadnezzar did not breach the walls and storm Tyre. Tyre surrendered to Nebuchadnezzar in 568 BCE after 13 years of siege.<br />
<br />
== Ezekiel 26, 14 and 21==<br />
''14 And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be a place to spread nets upon; thou shalt be built no more: for I the LORD have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.''<br />
<br />
{{Bible|Ezekiel 26:14}}<br />
<br />
''21 I will make thee a terror, and thou shalt be no more: though thou be sought for, yet shalt thou never be found again, saith the Lord GOD.''<br />
<br />
{{Bible|Ezekiel 26:21}}<br />
<br />
'''These verses indicate clearly that Tyre would be completely and permanently eradicated and never be rebuilt.''' <br />
<br />
*Tyre was never destroyed completely. It was sacked several times by several different warlords but it always continued to exist under the control of the victors.<br />
<br />
*In 126 BCE Tyre regained its independence. When the area became a Roman province in 64 BCE Tyre was allowed to keep much of its independence.<br />
<br />
*Tyre continued to maintain much of its commercial importance until the Christian era.<br />
<br />
*Tyre still exists today. See for yourself: <br />
<br />
http://maps.google.com/maps?sll=33.266667,35.2&sspn=0.1,0.1&ie=UTF8&ll=33.26869,35.203114&spn=0.028957,0.048838&t=k&z=15<br />
<br />
== The bottom line ==<br />
<br />
*It was to be expected that Nebuchadnezzar would attack Tyre, it doesn't take a prophet to figure that out.<br />
<br />
*It was to be expected that one day someone would bank up a causeway to besiege the island part of Tyre. This was a pretty common method for attacking difficult targets, e.g. Masada, which was sacked by the Romans in 72 BC.<br />
<br />
*Ezekiel prophesised that Nebuchadnezzar himself would bank up said ramp and use it to sack Tyre. He started banking it up but he didn't finish and use it. Alexander the Great did.<br />
<br />
*Nebuchadnezzar did not breach the walls of Tyre as Ezekiel prophesised.<br />
<br />
*Ezekiel prophesised that Tyre would be completely and permanently eradicated which never happened. Tyre still exists today. Besides: An eradicated city would have a hard time regaining its independence or maintain any commercial importance at all.<br />
<br />
''Deuteronomy 18, 22: When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.''<br />
<br />
{{Bible|Deuteronomy 18:22}}<br />
<br />
== Sources ==<br />
*The Bible (King James Version)<br />
*http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyros<br />
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyros<br />
*http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belagerung_von_Tyros<br />
*http://maps.google.com/maps?sll=33.266667,35.2&sspn=0.1,0.1&ie=UTF8&ll=33.26869,35.203114&spn=0.028957,0.048838&t=k&z=15<br />
<br />
[[Category:Bible]] [[Category:Prophecy]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=TyreTyre2012-07-28T04:55:14Z<p>Daskraut: added short summary before the details</p>
<hr />
<div>Some Christian apologists bring up the history of the city of Tyre, a city in [[Wikipedia:Lebanon|Lebanon]], as evidence for the validity of biblical [[prophecy]] and the existence of the biblical [[god]]. Allegedly the history of Tyre resembles a 100% exact fulfilment of the prophecies in [[Ezekiel]] 26 – 28.<br />
<br />
<br />
==First of all==<br />
The gist of the prophecy is: Ezekiel predicted, that the City of Tyre would be completely and permanently annihilated and wiped off of the map. This never happened, the city still stands. Any discussion or debate could end right here, but let's look at some details:<br />
<br />
==Ezekiel 26, 7 - 9==<br />
''7 For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.''<br />
<br />
''8 He shall slay with the sword thy daughters in the field: and he shall make a fort against thee, and cast a mount against thee, and lift up the buckler against thee. ''<br />
<br />
''9 And he shall set engines of war against thy walls, and with his axes he shall break down thy towers.''<br />
<br />
{{Bible|Ezekiel 26:7-9}}<br />
<br />
'''These verses indicate clearly that Nebuchadnezzar would bank up a causeway, use it to breach the walls of Tyre and storm the city.''' <br />
<br />
*[[Wikipedia:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] II. (604-562 [[BCE]]) started banking up a causeway, but he did not finish or use it. [[Wikipedia:Alexander the Great|Alexander the Great]] did. <br />
*Nebuchadnezzar did not breach the walls and storm Tyre. Tyre surrendered to Nebuchadnezzar in 568 BCE after 13 years of siege.<br />
<br />
== Ezekiel 26, 14 and 21==<br />
''14 And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be a place to spread nets upon; thou shalt be built no more: for I the LORD have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.''<br />
<br />
{{Bible|Ezekiel 26:14}}<br />
<br />
''21 I will make thee a terror, and thou shalt be no more: though thou be sought for, yet shalt thou never be found again, saith the Lord GOD.''<br />
<br />
{{Bible|Ezekiel 26:21}}<br />
<br />
'''These verses indicate clearly that Tyre would be completely and permanently eradicated and never be rebuilt.''' <br />
<br />
*Tyre was never destroyed completely. It was sacked several times by several different warlords but it always continued to exist under the control of the victors.<br />
<br />
*In 126 BCE Tyre regained its independence. When the area became a Roman province in 64 BCE Tyre was allowed to keep much of its independence.<br />
<br />
*Tyre continued to maintain much of its commercial importance until the Christian era.<br />
<br />
*Tyre still exists today. See for yourself: <br />
<br />
http://maps.google.com/maps?sll=33.266667,35.2&sspn=0.1,0.1&ie=UTF8&ll=33.26869,35.203114&spn=0.028957,0.048838&t=k&z=15<br />
<br />
== The bottom line ==<br />
<br />
*It was to be expected that Nebuchadnezzar would attack Tyre, it doesn't take a prophet to figure that out.<br />
<br />
*It was to be expected that one day someone would bank up a causeway to besiege the island part of Tyre. This was a pretty common method for attacking difficult targets, e.g. Masada, which was sacked by the Romans in 72 BC.<br />
<br />
*Ezekiel prophesised that Nebuchadnezzar himself would bank up said ramp and use it to sack Tyre. He started banking it up but he didn't finish and use it. Alexander the Great did.<br />
<br />
*Nebuchadnezzar did not breach the walls of Tyre as Ezekiel prophesised.<br />
<br />
*Ezekiel prophesised that Tyre would be completely and permanently eradicated which never happened. Tyre still exists today. Besides: An eradicated city would have a hard time regaining its independence or maintain any commercial importance at all.<br />
<br />
''Deuteronomy 18, 22: When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.''<br />
<br />
{{Bible|Deuteronomy 18:22}}<br />
<br />
== Sources ==<br />
*The Bible (King James Version)<br />
*http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyros<br />
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyros<br />
*http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belagerung_von_Tyros<br />
*http://maps.google.com/maps?sll=33.266667,35.2&sspn=0.1,0.1&ie=UTF8&ll=33.26869,35.203114&spn=0.028957,0.048838&t=k&z=15<br />
<br />
[[Category:Bible]] [[Category:Prophecy]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=User:DaskrautUser:Daskraut2012-07-27T15:57:59Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>== prophecy ==<br />
<br />
i am a prophet. i speak with the authority of a prophet. take this as a sign that i'm speaking the truth: next sunday you will watch the livestream of the atheist experience. people will call in and talk to the hosts. after the show he hosts will go out for dinner. not all of the team will join but matt's steak will be juicy and delicious. i recommend fries on the side. you will also listen to the non-prophets every other saturday and you will enjoy it. <br />
<br />
i have a message from ''god's father karl-heinz'' to you. thus sayeth the lord's father, the almightier-than-god karl-heinz: <br />
<br />
"i do apologize for letting my son mess up his game of sim city this badly. i should never have allowed him to play it at his very young age of 15,000 years. as soon as i come home from work i'll give him a right kicking and straighten things out for you. god maybe almighty, but i am almightier. i have root access and i know the cheat codes. unfortunately i don't have access to god's computer from my car – in my world i am not almighty and the vpn on my "i-pad maxi" (get it? GET IT? jaaaaaaa, now you got it!) crashed – so you'll have to wait a little bit. but i promise: on april 4th 2039, a quarter past 3pm all humans will be immortal, there will be no more disease, no more hunger and free gasoline and motorcycles for all. booze, smokes and pot will be for free, too. and there will be cake. this cake is not a lie, i'm not glados, i'm karl-heinz, the almightier father of god.<br />
<br />
i also promise to block satan's account. i still wonder why i allowed my neighbour's son to access our home network! seems like he is a troll after all. oh and should you meet the flying spaghetti monster, tell him that it was me who changed his pasta sauce for mad dog .357, just to teach him to keep his noodly appendices away from my wife!" thus sayeth karl-heinz, god's almightier-than-god father. <br />
<br />
god's father, the almightier-than-god karl-heinz, also says: "dear muslims. cut it out. if you don't stop butchering infidels and bombing other peoples' property right fucking now i'll give you 72 old catholic nuns instead of young virgins! i'm not bound by whatever my other spoiled son, allah, promised to you! also allah is grounded for a couple of centuries."<br />
<br />
god's father, the almightier-than-god karl-heinz, also says: "dear cunt hovind, if my grandsonson jesus immanuel jeshua of nazareth and betlehem tells you to render unto caesar what belongs to fucking caesar you bloody well better pay your damn taxes!"<br />
<br />
== about myself ==<br />
<br />
[[Image:Daskraut.jpg|thumb|right|Daskraut]]<br />
<br />
i is be a atheist from good old germany. daskraut. das kraut. kraut - get it? sure you do! you bombed our butts to bedrock last century. btw: thanks for that, i'd hate living under a nazi world gouvernment!<br />
<br />
i was built and born in '74 in the beautiful city of nürnberg. you'd call that nuremberg. no, it's not bavaria, it's frankonia. if you want to piss me off big time, just call me bavarian!<br />
<br />
i graduated what we call "gymnasium" in 1995. in germany we call that level "abitur". my graduation courses were biology, english, protestant theology (yes, we have that in our schools!) and math. don't call me a genius tho, i scored c- on average. barely made it...<br />
<br />
from 95 to 97 i got job training as an office guy. since then i worked as office guy, truck driver (42-tonners), it-trainer, computer guy and nightguard.<br />
<br />
i've been a christian for 18 years after i was prostitutelyzed (pun intended) by some other youths in the mid 90s. i've been a fundamentalist for the last 7 years of that. i went to a baptist church in southern germany - yes, we have that, too! - for the first 5 of those 7 years. during this time of maximum insanity i did a lot of damage by doing graphics, layout and webdesign work for a missionary and pastor, i also was the sound tech guy at the church i went to. i do sincerely apologize for that and i deeply regret it!<br />
<br />
when i was disappointed by the church big time i moved away from that town, closer to my place of work which happened to be a christian juvenile detention center in free forms closely affiliated to pfi. i can't disclose any information on the facility so don't ask. i was their system admin, database dude, webmaster, helldesk guy and everything else computer. and the night guard. i do apologize for that, too, i sincerely do. mea maxima culpa! i'm an [[asshat]].<br />
<br />
after i moved away from that baptist church i continued to believe in god for 2 more years. i finally woke up in october 2009. no, i won't tell you what happened but i realized that there either is no god or he doesn't give a damn. in both cases: why should i bother? a year later i found the atheist experience and the non-prophets. i backwatched and -listened the entire archives. amazing! my favourite guys are jeff dee and ashley perrien. sorry, matt, but you come in third ;) my favourite girls on the shows are all of them girls. especially all of them! very. btw - i'm available, girls!<br />
<br />
i'm not at all a scientist - lightyears from it! - but i'd still like to call yall "peers" and i call for yall to peer-review articles i post. check them, double-check them, correct them if they're flawed, expand them if there's more to say. let's all work together!<br />
<br />
== why i'm here ==<br />
<br />
i currently am e-mail-debating my [[Kornelius Novak|former pastor]] who moved to norway as a missionary. i'm going to share any significant analysiseseseseses and rebuttals here on the wiki but since i'm a kraut my english isn't the best so by all means - feel free to polish them up, add more information, add more and better sources, edit them mercilessly and kick my big fat butt whenever i'm wrong. my first article is on [[Tyre|ezekiel's prophecy on tyre]].<br />
<br />
since there's no reason to not believe that quite a number of other germans and fellow europeans browse this site, too, i might at some point post articles about topics closely related to germany or europe. norway, you're currently being plagued by [[Kornelius Novak]] whom i know personally. i'll post something about him, too. <br />
<br />
yeah, and my mob-farm currently produces ca. 11,250 - 11,500 items / hour. not bad, mates, ey?<br />
<br />
cya and buy<br />
daskraut</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=YouTubeYouTube2011-06-17T21:38:49Z<p>Daskraut: /* Pro-Science/Atheist */</p>
<hr />
<div>There are many videos on YouTube dealing with Evolution, Creation, atheism and God.<br />
<br />
== Channels==<br />
=== Pro-Science/Atheist ===<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/Thunderf00t Thunderf00t]<br />
:Creator of the ''[http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=AC3481305829426D Why do people laugh at creationists?]'' series of videos, various science/astronomy videos, along with videos documenting his humiliation of VenomFangX.<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/richarddawkinsdotnet richarddawkinsdotnet]<br />
:The [[Richard Dawkins Foundation]]. Lectures, documentaries and interviews by [[Richard Dawkins]].<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/patcondell patcondell]<br />
:British stand-up comedian [[Pat Condell]], with almost 150,000 followers (as of March 2011).<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/FFreeThinker FFreeThinker]<br />
:Various atheist and science videos, including more than hundred (as of June 2009) excerpts from [[The Atheist Experience]].<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/MrEvilution777 MrEvilution777]<br />
:Brett Keane, very active creator of various atheist videos, often calling pastors and churches asking tough questions in a civil manner.<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/ZOMGitsCriss ZOMGitsCriss]<br />
:Romanian atheist woman with 40+ videos.<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/AronRa AronRa]<br />
:Creator of the ''[http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=126AFB53A6F002CC Foundational Falsehood of Creationism]'' series of videos.<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/potholer54 Potholer54]<br />
:Creator of the ''[http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=DB23537556D7AADB From Big Bang to Us – Made Easy]'' series of videos.<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/EdwardCurrent Edward Current]<br />
:Creates parodies of creationist videos which are sometimes mistaken for the real thing - see [[Poe's law]].<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/MrsBettyBowers MrsBettyBowers]<br />
:"Mrs. Betty Bowers, America's best Christian." Christian satire.<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/ExtantDodo ExtantDodo]<br />
:Goes through creationist videos, such as those of [[Kent Hovind]], and debunks their claims step by step.<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/cdk007 cdk007]<br />
:Many pro-evolution videos and creationist criticism.<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/FightingAtheist FightingAtheist]<br />
:Videos by an ex-Christian<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Nick+Gisburne+&search_type=&aq=f Nick Gisburne]<br />
:Account which was deleted by youtube for quoting the Qur'an. [http://www.brianflemming.org/archives/002508.html The Nick Gisburne story]<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/QualiaSoup QualiaSoup]<br />
:Pro-reason videos focused on correct use of logic and semantics. Uses graphics and animation.<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/1GOD1JESUS 1GOD1JESUS]<br />
:Father Greg, Christian evangelist satire<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/AngieAntiTheist AngieAntiTheist]<br />
:Former religious cult member.<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/FactVsReligion FactVsReligion]<br />
:Commentary<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/KingHeathen KingHeathen]<br />
:Commentary<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/misterdeity MisterDeity]<br />
:God "behind the scenes" brilliant sketch comedy.<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/NonStampCollector NonStampCollector]<br />
:Animated comedy demonstrating absurdities of Christianity.<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/TremickWorld Tremick's World]<br />
:Commentary<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/Theologikos Theologikos]<br />
:Christian evangelist satire<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/BornWithoutReligion BornWithoutReligion]<br />
:Commentary<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/coughlan666 Richard "The Dick" Coughlan]<br />
:Suspended account. [http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=coughlan666 Search Coughlan666 on Youtube]<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/dprjones dprjones]<br />
:&#35;10 most subscribed of all time from the UK.<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/TheThinkingAtheist TheThinkingAtheist]<br />
:Former Christian who uses "satire, research and some common sense" to explore questions about God.<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/TheraminTrees TheraminTrees]<br />
: Like QualiaSoup, uses graphics and animation accompanied by narration. Creator of [http://richarddawkins.net/videos/3515-instruction-manual-for-life "Instruction Manual for Life"], a sort of parable about being raised in the church.<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/DarkMatter2525 DarkMatter2525]<br />
:Satirical animations<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/ZJemptv ZJemptv] (Zinnia Jones)<br />
:Discusses atheism, LGBT and transgender issues.<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/daskraut Daskraut]<br />
:German only. Anti-Christian satire, not much stuff yet but imma keep it coming...<br />
<br />
=== Skeptic ===<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/JamesRandiFoundation JamesRandiFoundation]<br />
:The [[James Randi Educational Foundation]]. Videos where [[James Randi|James "The Amazing" Randi]] talks about various topics related to skepticism and critical thinking + debunks various forms of superstition.<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/TheFriendlySkeptic TheFriendlySkeptic]<br />
:Many videos from various sources related to skepticism.<br />
<br />
=== Pro-Creation ===<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/VenomFangArchive VenomFangArchive]<br />
:Archive with all videos made by the infamous creationist [[VenomFangX]]. All these videos were removed from the [http://www.youtube.com/user/VenomFangX VenomFangX channel] when he left YouTube.<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/thewayofthemaster thewayofthemaster]<br />
:[[Ray Comfort]] & [[Kirk Cameron]] of [[The Way of the Master]] ministries. Perhaps best known for the video [[Banana argument|Bananas - The Atheist's Worst Nightmare]].<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/AnotherBrotherMark AnotherBrotherMark]<br />
:Self described as "Youtube's most despicable Christian"<br />
;[http://www.youtube.com/user/NephilimFree NephilimFree]<br />
:An abrasive young-earth creationist and geocentrist who is described by many as one of the creepiest and most deranged personalities one could wish to come across in the YouTube community. Well known for his signature oversized head-gear apparatus, delusions of grandeur, and theories from far out in left field, he comes across as loopy entertainment to some and unbearable to others.<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
* [[Atheist podcasts]]<br />
<br />
== External links ==<br />
[http://www.youtube.com/ YouTube website]<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Media]]<br />
[[Category:Web sites]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=User:DaskrautUser:Daskraut2011-06-11T18:24:50Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>== prophecy ==<br />
<br />
i am a prophet. i speak with the authority of a prophet. take this as a sign that i'm speaking the truth: next sunday you will watch the livestream of the atheist experience. people will call in and talk to the hosts. after the show he hosts will go out for dinner. not all of the team will join but matt's steak will be juicy and delicious. i recommend fries on the side. you will also listen to the non-prophets every other saturday and you will enjoy it. <br />
<br />
i have a message from ''god's father karl-heinz'' to you. thus sayeth the lord's father, the almightier-than-god karl-heinz: <br />
<br />
"i do apologize for letting my son mess up his game of sim city this badly. i should never have allowed him to play it at his very young age of 15,000 years. as soon as i come home from work i'll give him a right kicking and straighten things out for you. god maybe almighty, but i am almightier. i have root access and i know the cheat codes. unfortunately i don't have access to god's computer from my car – in my world i am not almighty and the vpn on my "i-pad maxi" (get it? GET IT? jaaaaaaa, now you got it!) crashed – so you'll have to wait a little bit. but i promise: on april 4th 2039, a quarter past 3pm all humans will be immortal, there will be no more disease, no more hunger and free gasoline and motorcycles for all. booze, smokes and pot will be for free, too. and there will be cake. this cake is not a lie, i'm not glados, i'm karl-heinz, the almightier father of god.<br />
<br />
i also promise to block satan's account. i still wonder why i allowed my neighbour's son to access our home network! seems like he is a troll after all. oh and should you meet the flying spaghetti monster, tell him that it was me who changed his pasta sauce for mad dog .357, just to teach him to keep his noodly appendices away from my wife!" thus sayeth karl-heinz, god's almightier-than-god father. <br />
<br />
god's father, the almightier-than-god karl-heinz, also says: "dear muslims. cut it out. if you don't stop butchering infidels and bombing other peoples' property right fucking now i'll give you 72 old catholic nuns instead of young virgins! i'm not bound by whatever my other spoiled son, allah, promised to you! also allah is grounded for a couple of centuries."<br />
<br />
god's father, the almightier-than-god karl-heinz, also says: "dear cunt hovind, if my grandsonson jesus immanuel jeshua of nazareth and betlehem tells you to render unto caesar what belongs to fucking caesar you bloody well better pay your damn taxes!"<br />
<br />
== about myself ==<br />
<br />
[[Image:Daskraut.jpg|thumb|right|Daskraut]]<br />
<br />
i is be a atheist from good old germany. daskraut. das kraut. kraut - get it? sure you do! you bombed our butts to bedrock last century. btw: thanks for that, i'd hate living under a nazi world gouvernment!<br />
<br />
i was built and born in '74 in the beautiful city of nürnberg. you'd call that nuremberg. no, it's not bavaria, it's frankonia. if you want to piss me off big time, just call me bavarian!<br />
<br />
i graduated what we call "gymnasium" in 1995. in germany we call that level "abitur". my graduation courses were biology, english, protestant theology (yes, we have that in our schools!) and math. don't call me a genius tho, i scored c- on average. barely made it...<br />
<br />
from 95 to 97 i got job training as an office guy. since then i worked as office guy, truck driver (42-tonners), it-trainer, computer guy and nightguard.<br />
<br />
i've been a christian for 18 years after i was prostitutelyzed (pun intended) by some other youths in the mid 90s. i've been a fundamentalist for the last 7 years of that. i went to a baptist church in southern germany - yes, we have that, too! - for the first 5 of those 7 years. during this time of maximum insanity i did a lot of damage by doing graphics, layout and webdesign work for a missionary and pastor, i also was the sound tech guy at the church i went to. i do sincerely apologize for that and i deeply regret it!<br />
<br />
when i was disappointed by the church big time i moved away from that town, closer to my place of work which happened to be a christian juvenile detention center in free forms closely affiliated to pfi. i can't disclose any information on the facility so don't ask. i was their system admin, database dude, webmaster, helldesk guy and everything else computer. and the night guard. i do apologize for that, too, i sincerely do. mea maxima culpa! i'm an [[asshat]].<br />
<br />
after i moved away from that baptist church i continued to believe in god for 2 more years. i finally woke up in october 2009. no, i won't tell you what happened but i realized that there either is no god or he doesn't give a damn. in both cases: why should i bother? a year later i found the atheist experience and the non-prophets. i backwatched and -listened the entire archives. amazing! my favourite guys are jeff dee and ashley perrien. sorry, matt, but you come in third ;) my favourite girls on the shows are all of them girls. especially all of them! very. btw - i'm available, girls!<br />
<br />
i'm not at all a scientist - lightyears from it! - but i'd still like to call yall "peers" and i call for yall to peer-review articles i post. check them, double-check them, correct them if they're flawed, expand them if there's more to say. let's all work together!<br />
<br />
== why i'm here ==<br />
<br />
i currently am e-mail-debating my [[Kornelius Novak|former pastor]] who moved to norway as a missionary. i'm going to share any significant analysiseseseseses and rebuttals here on the wiki but since i'm a kraut my english isn't the best so by all means - feel free to polish them up, add more information, add more and better sources, edit them mercilessly and kick my big fat butt whenever i'm wrong. my first article is on [[Tyre|ezekiel's prophecy on tyre]].<br />
<br />
since there's no reason to not believe that quite a number of other germans and fellow europeans browse this site, too, i might at some point post articles about topics closely related to germany or europe. norway, you're currently being plagued by [[kornelius novak]] whom i know personally. i'll post something about him, too. <br />
<br />
yeah, and my mob-farm currently produces ca. 11,250 - 11,500 items / hour. not bad, mates, ey?<br />
<br />
cya and buy<br />
daskraut</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=User:DaskrautUser:Daskraut2011-06-11T18:24:27Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>== prophecy ==<br />
<br />
i am a prophet. i speak with the authority of a prophet. take this as a sign that i'm speaking the truth: next sunday you will watch the livestream of the atheist experience. people will call in and talk to the hosts. after the show he hosts will go out for dinner. not all of the team will join but matt's steak will be juicy and delicious. i recommend fries on the side. you will also listen to the non-prophets every other saturday and you will enjoy it. <br />
<br />
i have a message from ''god's father karl-heinz'' to you. thus sayeth the lord's father, the almightier-than-god karl-heinz: <br />
<br />
"i do apologize for letting my son mess up his game of sim city this badly. i should never have allowed him to play it at his very young age of 15,000 years. as soon as i come home from work i'll give him a right kicking and straighten things out for you. god maybe almighty, but i am almightier. i have root access and i know the cheat codes. unfortunately i don't have access to god's computer from my car – in my world i am not almighty and the vpn on my "i-pad maxi" (get it? GET IT? jaaaaaaa, now you got it!) crashed – so you'll have to wait a little bit. but i promise: on april 4th 2039, a quarter past 3pm all humans will be immortal, there will be no more disease, no more hunger and free gasoline and motorcycles for all. booze, smokes and pot will be for free, too. and there will be cake. this cake is not a lie, i'm not glados, i'm karl-heinz, the almightier father of god.<br />
<br />
i also promise to block satan's account. i still wonder why i allowed my neighbour's son to access our home network! seems like he is a troll after all. oh and should you meet the flying spaghetti monster, tell him that it was me who changed his pasta sauce for mad dog .357, just to teach him to keep his noodly appendices away from my wife!" thus sayeth karl-heinz, god's almightier-than-god father. <br />
<br />
god's father, the almightier-than-god karl-heinz, also says: "dear muslims. cut it out. if you don't stop butchering infidels and bombing other peoples' property right fucking now i'll give you 72 old catholic nuns instead of young virgins! i'm not bound by whatever my other spoiled son, allah, promised to you! also allah is grounded for a couple of centuries."<br />
<br />
god's father, the almightier-than-god karl-heinz, also says: "dear cunt hovind, if my grandsonson jesus immanuel jeshua of nazareth and betlehem tells you to render unto caesar what belongs to fucking caesar you bloody well better pay your damn taxes!"<br />
<br />
[[Image:Daskraut.jpg|thumb|right|Daskraut]]<br />
<br />
== about myself ==<br />
<br />
i is be a atheist from good old germany. daskraut. das kraut. kraut - get it? sure you do! you bombed our butts to bedrock last century. btw: thanks for that, i'd hate living under a nazi world gouvernment!<br />
<br />
i was built and born in '74 in the beautiful city of nürnberg. you'd call that nuremberg. no, it's not bavaria, it's frankonia. if you want to piss me off big time, just call me bavarian!<br />
<br />
i graduated what we call "gymnasium" in 1995. in germany we call that level "abitur". my graduation courses were biology, english, protestant theology (yes, we have that in our schools!) and math. don't call me a genius tho, i scored c- on average. barely made it...<br />
<br />
from 95 to 97 i got job training as an office guy. since then i worked as office guy, truck driver (42-tonners), it-trainer, computer guy and nightguard.<br />
<br />
i've been a christian for 18 years after i was prostitutelyzed (pun intended) by some other youths in the mid 90s. i've been a fundamentalist for the last 7 years of that. i went to a baptist church in southern germany - yes, we have that, too! - for the first 5 of those 7 years. during this time of maximum insanity i did a lot of damage by doing graphics, layout and webdesign work for a missionary and pastor, i also was the sound tech guy at the church i went to. i do sincerely apologize for that and i deeply regret it!<br />
<br />
when i was disappointed by the church big time i moved away from that town, closer to my place of work which happened to be a christian juvenile detention center in free forms closely affiliated to pfi. i can't disclose any information on the facility so don't ask. i was their system admin, database dude, webmaster, helldesk guy and everything else computer. and the night guard. i do apologize for that, too, i sincerely do. mea maxima culpa! i'm an [[asshat]].<br />
<br />
after i moved away from that baptist church i continued to believe in god for 2 more years. i finally woke up in october 2009. no, i won't tell you what happened but i realized that there either is no god or he doesn't give a damn. in both cases: why should i bother? a year later i found the atheist experience and the non-prophets. i backwatched and -listened the entire archives. amazing! my favourite guys are jeff dee and ashley perrien. sorry, matt, but you come in third ;) my favourite girls on the shows are all of them girls. especially all of them! very. btw - i'm available, girls!<br />
<br />
i'm not at all a scientist - lightyears from it! - but i'd still like to call yall "peers" and i call for yall to peer-review articles i post. check them, double-check them, correct them if they're flawed, expand them if there's more to say. let's all work together!<br />
<br />
== why i'm here ==<br />
<br />
i currently am e-mail-debating my [[Kornelius Novak|former pastor]] who moved to norway as a missionary. i'm going to share any significant analysiseseseseses and rebuttals here on the wiki but since i'm a kraut my english isn't the best so by all means - feel free to polish them up, add more information, add more and better sources, edit them mercilessly and kick my big fat butt whenever i'm wrong. my first article is on [[Tyre|ezekiel's prophecy on tyre]].<br />
<br />
since there's no reason to not believe that quite a number of other germans and fellow europeans browse this site, too, i might at some point post articles about topics closely related to germany or europe. norway, you're currently being plagued by [[kornelius novak]] whom i know personally. i'll post something about him, too. <br />
<br />
yeah, and my mob-farm currently produces ca. 11,250 - 11,500 items / hour. not bad, mates, ey?<br />
<br />
cya and buy<br />
daskraut</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=User:DaskrautUser:Daskraut2011-06-11T18:24:01Z<p>Daskraut: i got a prophecy for yall</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Daskraut.jpg|thumb|right|Daskraut]]<br />
<br />
== prophecy ==<br />
<br />
i am a prophet. i speak with the authority of a prophet. take this as a sign that i'm speaking the truth: next sunday you will watch the livestream of the atheist experience. people will call in and talk to the hosts. after the show he hosts will go out for dinner. not all of the team will join but matt's steak will be juicy and delicious. i recommend fries on the side. you will also listen to the non-prophets every other saturday and you will enjoy it. <br />
<br />
i have a message from ''god's father karl-heinz'' to you. thus sayeth the lord's father, the almightier-than-god karl-heinz: <br />
<br />
"i do apologize for letting my son mess up his game of sim city this badly. i should never have allowed him to play it at his very young age of 15,000 years. as soon as i come home from work i'll give him a right kicking and straighten things out for you. god maybe almighty, but i am almightier. i have root access and i know the cheat codes. unfortunately i don't have access to god's computer from my car – in my world i am not almighty and the vpn on my "i-pad maxi" (get it? GET IT? jaaaaaaa, now you got it!) crashed – so you'll have to wait a little bit. but i promise: on april 4th 2039, a quarter past 3pm all humans will be immortal, there will be no more disease, no more hunger and free gasoline and motorcycles for all. booze, smokes and pot will be for free, too. and there will be cake. this cake is not a lie, i'm not glados, i'm karl-heinz, the almightier father of god.<br />
<br />
i also promise to block satan's account. i still wonder why i allowed my neighbour's son to access our home network! seems like he is a troll after all. oh and should you meet the flying spaghetti monster, tell him that it was me who changed his pasta sauce for mad dog .357, just to teach him to keep his noodly appendices away from my wife!" thus sayeth karl-heinz, god's almightier-than-god father. <br />
<br />
god's father, the almightier-than-god karl-heinz, also says: "dear muslims. cut it out. if you don't stop butchering infidels and bombing other peoples' property right fucking now i'll give you 72 old catholic nuns instead of young virgins! i'm not bound by whatever my other spoiled son, allah, promised to you! also allah is grounded for a couple of centuries."<br />
<br />
god's father, the almightier-than-god karl-heinz, also says: "dear cunt hovind, if my grandsonson jesus immanuel jeshua of nazareth and betlehem tells you to render unto caesar what belongs to fucking caesar you bloody well better pay your damn taxes!"<br />
<br />
== about myself ==<br />
<br />
i is be a atheist from good old germany. daskraut. das kraut. kraut - get it? sure you do! you bombed our butts to bedrock last century. btw: thanks for that, i'd hate living under a nazi world gouvernment!<br />
<br />
i was built and born in '74 in the beautiful city of nürnberg. you'd call that nuremberg. no, it's not bavaria, it's frankonia. if you want to piss me off big time, just call me bavarian!<br />
<br />
i graduated what we call "gymnasium" in 1995. in germany we call that level "abitur". my graduation courses were biology, english, protestant theology (yes, we have that in our schools!) and math. don't call me a genius tho, i scored c- on average. barely made it...<br />
<br />
from 95 to 97 i got job training as an office guy. since then i worked as office guy, truck driver (42-tonners), it-trainer, computer guy and nightguard.<br />
<br />
i've been a christian for 18 years after i was prostitutelyzed (pun intended) by some other youths in the mid 90s. i've been a fundamentalist for the last 7 years of that. i went to a baptist church in southern germany - yes, we have that, too! - for the first 5 of those 7 years. during this time of maximum insanity i did a lot of damage by doing graphics, layout and webdesign work for a missionary and pastor, i also was the sound tech guy at the church i went to. i do sincerely apologize for that and i deeply regret it!<br />
<br />
when i was disappointed by the church big time i moved away from that town, closer to my place of work which happened to be a christian juvenile detention center in free forms closely affiliated to pfi. i can't disclose any information on the facility so don't ask. i was their system admin, database dude, webmaster, helldesk guy and everything else computer. and the night guard. i do apologize for that, too, i sincerely do. mea maxima culpa! i'm an [[asshat]].<br />
<br />
after i moved away from that baptist church i continued to believe in god for 2 more years. i finally woke up in october 2009. no, i won't tell you what happened but i realized that there either is no god or he doesn't give a damn. in both cases: why should i bother? a year later i found the atheist experience and the non-prophets. i backwatched and -listened the entire archives. amazing! my favourite guys are jeff dee and ashley perrien. sorry, matt, but you come in third ;) my favourite girls on the shows are all of them girls. especially all of them! very. btw - i'm available, girls!<br />
<br />
i'm not at all a scientist - lightyears from it! - but i'd still like to call yall "peers" and i call for yall to peer-review articles i post. check them, double-check them, correct them if they're flawed, expand them if there's more to say. let's all work together!<br />
<br />
== why i'm here ==<br />
<br />
i currently am e-mail-debating my [[Kornelius Novak|former pastor]] who moved to norway as a missionary. i'm going to share any significant analysiseseseseses and rebuttals here on the wiki but since i'm a kraut my english isn't the best so by all means - feel free to polish them up, add more information, add more and better sources, edit them mercilessly and kick my big fat butt whenever i'm wrong. my first article is on [[Tyre|ezekiel's prophecy on tyre]].<br />
<br />
since there's no reason to not believe that quite a number of other germans and fellow europeans browse this site, too, i might at some point post articles about topics closely related to germany or europe. norway, you're currently being plagued by [[kornelius novak]] whom i know personally. i'll post something about him, too. <br />
<br />
yeah, and my mob-farm currently produces ca. 11,250 - 11,500 items / hour. not bad, mates, ey?<br />
<br />
cya and buy<br />
daskraut</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=History_of_the_Biblical_canonHistory of the Biblical canon2011-06-11T02:37:53Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=THIS ARTICLE NEEDS TO BE REVIEWED, CHECKED, DOUBLE-CHECKED AND CHECKED AGAIN!!!}}<br />
<br />
'''13.75 ± 0.11 x 10^9 BCE: [[Big Bang]]'''<br />
<br />
*The [[universe]] changed its shape from [[singularity]] to... well... universe<br />
*Or maybe [[God]] farted. Who knows?<br />
<br />
<br />
'''4.54 ± 0.0454 × 10^9 BCE: "[[Evolution]]" created the earth'''<br />
<br />
*The earth changed its shape from cloud of dust to... well... earth<br />
*No, don't, don't hit edit! I'm just fucking with [[creationists]] here!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200,000 BCE: First structures in France and Japan'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200,000 BCE: [[Mitochondrial Eve]]<br />
*Our great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-...-great-granny<br />
<br />
<br />
'''50,000 BCE: [[Homo Sapiens]] reached full behavioural modernity'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''12,500 – 9,500 BCE: [[Natufian Culture]]'''<br />
*Early culture in the [[middle east]]<br />
*Located where we find Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan and Israel today<br />
*Agriculture and the domestication of dogs<br />
<br />
<br />
'''10.23.4004 BCE, 09:00 am: [[God]] created the heavens and the earth'''<br />
*Date determined by [[James Ussher]] by adding up dates from the [[KJV]], but we can't be particularly sure. Nobody saw him do it and many Christian scholars' studies produce different results. <br />
*I guess God did a pretty good job but I think we all agree that banishing [[Lucifer]] to earth instead of hitting DEL was kinda stupid, ey?<br />
<br />
<br />
'''2349 BCE: The Great [[Flood]]'''<br />
*God flushed our world down the toilet and tried again<br />
*Year determined by James Ussher<br />
<br />
<br />
'''33rd c. BCE: Earliest known writings'''<br />
*Found in [[Harappa]] in the [[Indus]]-valley in Pakistan<br />
<br />
<br />
'''30th c. BCE: [[Sumerian]] [[cuneiform]] script'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''27th c. BCE: First [[Egypt]]ian alphabet'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1892 BCE: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIRUzqHTNh8 Napalm Death] upon [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY3YufnD4KE Sodom] and Gomorrha<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1491 BCE: [[Exodus|Israel GTFO Egypt]]'''<br />
*Year determined by James Ussher<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1312 BCE: God revealed the [[Torah]] to [[Moses]]'''<br />
*We don't know, which language he used and what script Moses used to write it down. Most scripts were developed later:<br />
<br />
<br />
'''11th. c. BCE: Phoenician script'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''10th c. BCE: Cyrillic script'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''9th. c. BCE: Aramaic and Greek script'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''7th c. BCE: Latin alphabet'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''622 BCE: [[Hilkiah]] found the Torah'''<br />
<br />
Hilkiah was the high priest back then, see 2. Kings 22. We don't know, if he found the whole thing or just parts of it and we don't know the language and script of the copy he found.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''4th c. BCE: Torah (Law) and [[Nevi'im]] (Prophets) were canonized'''<br />
<br />
Basically what was read by the priests<br />
<br />
<br />
'''3rd c. BCE: [[Hebrew]] script'''<br />
<br />
Finally. Well, all of the above writings could not possibly have been written in Hebrew.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''250 BCE – 40 CE: [[Dead Sea Scrolls]]'''<br />
*Collection of 972 texts<br />
*Some biblical, some not<br />
<br />
<br />
'''250 BCE – 100 CE: [[Septuagint]]'''<br />
*First "official" translation of the Tanach into Greek<br />
<br />
<br />
'''12.25.04 BCE: [[Christmas]]'''<br />
*We finally get to worship Satan Claus and his X-Mas Pixies!<br />
*Year determined by James Ussher<br />
<br />
<br />
'''26 – 36 CE: Pontius Pilatus aka [[Pilate]] was governor of [[Judea]]'''<br />
*[[Judas]] snitched on Jesus for 30 measly bucks (cheap bastard!)<br />
*Pilate crucified him<br />
*[[Paul]] met his ghost 1 – 3 years later, converted and started one of the most successful [[sect]]s ever<br />
<br />
<br />
'''30 – 60 CE: Lost Passion'''<br />
*We don't have any original copies of this hypothetical document<br />
<br />
<br />
'''40 – 80 CE: [[Q document]] aka Q source'''<br />
*Hypothetical collection of sayings attributed to Jesus<br />
*No existing originals<br />
<br />
<br />
'''48 – 58 CE: Paul's [[Epistle]]s'''<br />
*Do we have original copies?<br />
<br />
<br />
'''48 – 120 CE: Earliest Christian writings'''<br />
*Again: We don't have copies!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''50 – 90 CE: [[Signs-Gospel]]'''<br />
*Again: No copies!<br />
*The Signs-Gospel is the hypothetical source of the [[Gospel of John]] which focuses on "demonstrating" the godliness of Jesus<br />
<br />
<br />
'''50 – 140 CE: [[Gospel of Thomas]]'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''65 – 120 CE: [[Gospel]]s'''<br />
*Christians like to date the Gospels around 35 CE to lend prophetic character to the hints of the destruction of the temple<br />
*We don't know the authors for sure<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Image:Fragment.jpg|thumb|right|First known fragment dated ca. 125 CE]]<br />
<br />
'''ca. 125 CE: Oldest known fragment of any Christian writing'''<br />
<br />
Nope, there are no older known copies!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''350 CE: Earliest complete copies of Christian writings'''<br />
*And they are copies of copies of copies of oral tradition<br />
*And they aren't autographed<br />
<br />
<br />
'''50 – 97 CE: [[Clemens Romanus]]'''<br />
*Important dude in the early church<br />
*We have many of his letters.<br />
*He never quoted any gospel, not even Mark. He would have known about the Gospel of Mark if Mark had written it for a Roman audience! <br />
*He frequently referred to Paul's Epistles and considered them to be wise advice (but not divinely inspired!)<br />
*Clemens' Jesus-quotes can't be found in any known source<br />
*Clemens' writings were considered divinely inspired by the early church<br />
<br />
<br />
'''80 – 180 CE: [[Didache]]'''<br />
*Exact dating is impossible, probably 110 CE<br />
*Authors are unknown<br />
*One of the oldest church regulations<br />
*Contains the Gospel of Matthew completely and refers to it as "'''''The''''' Gospel"<br />
*It doesn't quote any other Gospels<br />
*Considered canonical by [[Clement of Alexandria]] and others<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 100 CE: [[Synode of Jawne]]'''<br />
*[[Ketuvim]] (Writings) were canonized<br />
*The [[Tanach]] (Jewish "Bible") was officially finished<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 130 CE: [[Papias]], [[Bishop]] of [[Hierapolis]]'''<br />
*Wrote 5 books "Interpretations of the Sayings of the Lord", a collection of orally conveyed quotes of the apostles.<br />
*No original copies, fragments passed on by [[Eusebius of Caesarea]]<br />
*Interested in written text, but shows that oral tradition was way more important back then<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 130 CE: [[Polycarp]], Bishop of [[Smyrna]]'''<br />
*Wrote a letter containing ca. 100 quotes attributed to Jesus. Some of them match quotes from the Gospels, some match quotes from the Epistles<br />
*Polycarp didn't name sources<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 135 CE: [[Basileides]], a [[Gnostic]] from [[Alexandria]],'''<br />
*Wrote the "[[Exegetica]]", a Bible commentary in 24 volumes considered heretical<br />
*His sources are unknown<br />
*To this point "Jesus" or "Christ" was the only named authority. Now the doctrinal debates began and church leadership became a necessity to dictate and preserve official church [[doctrine]]<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 140 CE: The [[Shepherd of Hermas]]'''<br />
*Very popular together with the [[Barnabas-Epistle]]<br />
*Part of the [[Codex Sinaiticus]]<br />
*No quotes from any other texts of the [[New Testament]]<br />
*Refers to other Jewish Texts (Eldad and Medad)<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 144 CE: [[Marcion]] proposes a [[reformation]] of Christianity'''<br />
*He called the [[Old Testament]] contradictory, barbaric and untrue (and he's right about that!), only considered Paul's writings as inspired<br />
*Gnostic beliefs: Jesus wasn't human, there is no [[hell]]<br />
*Compiled the first Biblical canon: Gospel of Luke (w/o [[Nativity]] story and references to the Old Testament) and 10 Epistles<br />
*Was excommunicated and founded his own church, but his prefaces to the biblical texts made it into the Latin [[Vulgate]]<br />
<br />
<br />
'''157 CE: [[Montanism]]'''<br />
*Comparable to today's [[Pentecostal]] movement<br />
*[[Speaking in tongues]] and personal [[revelation]] were important<br />
*Laymen's opinions were regarded as important as clerical opinions<br />
*Expectation of the [[end times]]<br />
<br />
<br />
'''160 – 180 CE: [[Melitio]], Bishop of [[Sardis]]'''<br />
*Asked the Hebrews in Palestine, which writings are to be considered holy<br />
*Accepted their opinion without critical questioning and the [[Old Testament]] came into being<br />
*Also accepted apocryphal books (1st and 2nd [[Maccabees]], [[Book of Wisdom]] and [[Jesus Sirach]])<br />
<br />
Around this time the church began to send out [[priests]] to examine churches' doctrines after travellers reported doctrinal differences. The larger, stronger and richer churches dictated their doctrine on the smaller ones.<br />
<br />
Despite Marcion's canon, the heresy of the Montanism and doctrinal disputes there still was no official attempt to create an orthodox canon.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''150 – 200 CE: [[Acts of Paul]]'''<br />
*Apocryphal book, written to honour Paul<br />
*The priest who wrote it was ousted for falsification<br />
*Despite that his work stayed popular in the churches and is part of the [[Armenian Bible]] to this day<br />
<br />
<br />
'''172 CE: [[Tatian]] founded a church in Syria'''<br />
*after he was converted and trained by [[Justin the Martyr]]<br />
*Banned wine, meat and marriage<br />
*Compiled the Syrian canon: [[Diatessaron]], which is an edited and harmonized version of the 4 Gospels, several Epistles of Paul (which ones is unknown) and Acts.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''177 CE: [[Athenagoras]] invented the [[Trinity]]'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Serapion]] visited the churches in [[Asia]]'''<br />
<br />
and was confronted with disputes, whether the [[Gospel of Peter]] can or can't be read in churches. As quickly as he approved of it, he declared it heretical after reading it. <br />
<br />
'''NB:''' The Gospel of Peter also contains the [[Apocalypse of Peter]], an extremely graphic depiction of hell that still is considered divinely inspired. Poe couldn't have done it any better. [[Dante Alighieri]] did (and I recommend reading [[Dante's Inferno]] if you're into horror stories! Really, good snuff!).<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Dionysus]]'''<br />
*Demanded, that his letters and the "writings of the Lord" are revised, thus questioning the veracity of all Scripture<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' Even Paul points out the numerous forgeries!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Talmud]] was canonized'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Irenaeus]], Bishop of Lugdunum (Lyon, France)'''<br />
*Quoted almost every book in the modern New Testament which points to an inofficial canon<br />
*He stated that there have to be exactly 4 Gospels, since there are 4 directions, 4 winds, 4 blah and 4 blib<br />
<br />
<br />
'''Basic rules of determining the veracity of a text:'''<br />
*If it fits your doctrine, it's inspired.<br />
*If it doesn't, it isn't.<br />
*Might makes right. God will surely make sure that the right dudes are in power. (What about the girls?)<br />
*Literary history and scholarship don't count. Which isn't surprising in the light of people relying on oral tradition.<br />
*I just wrote oral<br />
*You just giggled<br />
<br />
<br />
'''150 – 215 CE: Titus Flavius Clemens aka [[Clement]] of Alexandria'''<br />
*First serious scholar among the church fathers<br />
*Quoted written sources ca. 8,000 times<br />
*2,500 of the quotes were not Christian or Jewish<br />
*Agreed with Tatian's Diatessaron but also accepts the Gnostic [[Egyptian Gospel]], the [[Hebrew Gospel]], the [[Traditions of Matthias]], the Shepherd of Hermas, the Barnabas-Epistle, the Apocalypse of Peter, the Didache and oral tradition<br />
*You just realized that i wrote oral again<br />
<br />
<br />
'''The "secret [[Gospel of Mark]]"'''<br />
<br />
Clement mentioned 3 different versions of the Gospel of Mark in a letter to Theodoros:<br />
*A short version written in Rome, based on the teachings of Peter<br />
*A longer, more spiritual version written in Alexandria after Peter's death<br />
*A "secret" version, 2 fragments of which are preserved together with the letter<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' Many writings were falsified, hidden or disposed of to preserve doctrine!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 195 CE: Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullianus aka [[Tertullian]]'''<br />
*Compiled a commented list of books he accepted including, among others, the traditional inofficial canon and the Shepherd of Hermas<br />
*Pissed off by the envy and laxity of the Roman clergy he converted to Montanism<br />
<br />
<br />
'''203 CE: Origenes Adamantius aka [[Origen]] '''<br />
*Became head of the Christian Seminar of Alexandria at the age of 18<br />
*Performed the first scientific examination of Christianity<br />
<br />
In 231 CE he fled to [[Caesarea]] after a clash with Bishop [[Demetrius]]. He founded a new school there that soon outshone the school in Alexandria. He converted [[Ambrosius]] from gnostic [[Valentianism]] to [[Orthodoxy]]. Ambrosius became his financier.<br />
He agreed with Tatian's Diatessaron and calls it the only reliable piece of work criticized by no one (only talking about non-heretics, which indicates that non-heretics, too, argued about the Gospels). He also accepted the Gospel of Peter, the Shepherd of Hermas, Didache, the Barnabas-Epistle as holy scriptures but he doubted the veracity of the 2nd and 3rd Epistles of John, the 2nd Epistle of Paul and the Hebrew Epistle.<br />
<br />
Origen castrated himself which was a capital crime in Rome (and pretty stupid, too).<br />
<br />
<br />
'''Late 2nd to 4th c. CE: [[Canon Muratori]]'''<br />
*Fragment of a commented Latin list of writings including the Apocalypse of John, the Apocalypse of Peter and the Book of Wisdom<br />
*Calls the Shepherd of Hermas commendable but not inspired<br />
*Doesn't include Hebrews, Jacob, 1. and 2. Peter and 3. John<br />
*Contradicts Marcionism, Montanism, Valentianism and other gnostic flavours<br />
*Indicates an existing canon as soon as the 2nd century CE<br />
<br />
<br />
'''260/264 – 339/340 CE: [[Eusebius]] of Caesarea '''<br />
*Followed Origen's teachings<br />
*Agreed with the Trinity-concept, albeit with Jesus on a lower rank than God<br />
*Agreed with forgeries and lies in favour of God and against heresy<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' Almost everything we know about early church history we know '''''from this guy!''''' He's the only source for many pieces of information.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''4th c. CE: [[Codex Sinaiticus]]'''<br />
*Bible manuscript found at the [[Mount Sinai]]<br />
*Contains large portions of the Old Testament, the entire New Testament from Matthew to Revelations, the Shepherd of Hermas and the Barnabas-Epistle<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 350 CE: [[Cyril]] of Jerusalem published his own canon '''<br />
*as part of his 23 [[catechetical lectures]]<br />
*First official canon of a high-ranking church leader<br />
*Insisted that only books from his list may be read, even in private<br />
*Identical with today's canon without the Apocalypse of John<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' One single man decided!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''363 – 364 CE: [[Synode of Laodicea]]'''<br />
*Ca. 20 – 30 Bishops gathered to constitute an official canon<br />
*They agreed on Cyril's canon<br />
<br />
<br />
'''367 CE: [[Athanasius]] the Great, Bishop of Alexandria'''<br />
*Listed the 27 books of the modern New Testament in his [[39th Festal Letter]] thus adding the Apocalypse of John to the canon<br />
*Ruled that the canon may not be changed anymore<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' Again one single man decided!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''692 CE: Concilium Quinisextum aka [[2nd Trullan Synode]]'''<br />
*Convoked by Emperor [[Justinian II]] in Trullo<br />
*Upheld the Synode of Laodicea '''and''' Athanasius despite the disagreement about the Apocalypse of John<br />
*Declared the Clement-Epistles as holy and part of the Bible<br />
*Added 8 more books "which it is not appropriate to make public before all, because of the mysteries contained in them"<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1443 CE: [[Council of Florence]]'''<br />
*Upheld Athanasius' list<br />
*finally sealed the 27-books-canon of the New Testament<br />
*Was convoked because the authenticity esp. of the Hebrew-Epistle were doubted when the people of the [[Renaissance]] began to read and think for themselves<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1516 CE: First edition of the [[Textus Receptus]] in Greek'''<br />
*Published by [[Erasmus of Rotterdam]] <br />
*The first edition was fairly flawed<br />
*Many Bible translations are based on the Textus Receptus<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1521 CE: [[Martin Luther]] translated the New Testament into German'''<br />
*Used the 2nd edition of Erasmus' Textus Receptus, Erasmus' Latin translation and the Latin Vulgate<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1523 CE: Luther translated the first part of the Old Testament into German'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1534 CE: Luther finished his translation of the Old Testament'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1545 - 1463 CE: [[Council of Trent]]'''<br />
*Affirmed the Council of Florence<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1604 – 1611 CE: Translation of the [[KJV]]'''<br />
*From now on Jesus speaks English!<br />
<br />
<br />
== Sources ==<br />
<br />
*"The History of the Biblical Canon" by Matt Dillahunty, ACA<br />
<br />
*http://www.wikipedia.org<br />
<br />
[[Category:Bible]] [[Category:History]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=History_of_the_Biblical_canonHistory of the Biblical canon2011-06-11T02:21:22Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=THIS ARTICLE NEEDS TO BE REVIEWED, CHECKED, DOUBLE-CHECKED AND CHECKED AGAIN!!!}}<br />
<br />
'''13.75 ± 0.11 x 10^9 BCE: [[Big Bang]]'''<br />
<br />
*The [[universe]] changed its shape from [[singularity]] to... well... universe<br />
*Or maybe [[God]] farted. Who knows?<br />
<br />
<br />
'''4.54 ± 0.0454 × 10^9 BCE: "[[Evolution]]" created the earth'''<br />
<br />
*The earth changed its shape from cloud of dust to... well... earth<br />
*No, don't, don't hit edit! I'm just fucking with [[creationists]] here!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200,000 BCE: First structures in France and Japan'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200,000 BCE: [[Mitochondrial Eve]]<br />
*Our great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-...-great-granny<br />
<br />
<br />
'''50,000 BCE: [[Homo Sapiens]] reached full behavioural modernity'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''12,500 – 9,500 BCE: [[Natufian Culture]]'''<br />
*Early culture in the [[middle east]]<br />
*Located where we find Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan and Israel today<br />
*Agriculture and the domestication of dogs<br />
<br />
<br />
'''10.23.4004 BCE, 09:00 am: [[God]] created the heavens and the earth'''<br />
*Date determined by [[James Ussher]] by adding up dates from the [[KJV]], but we can't be particularly sure. Nobody saw him do it and many Christian scholars' studies produce different results. <br />
*I guess God did a pretty good job but I think we all agree that banishing [[Lucifer]] to earth instead of hitting DEL was kinda stupid, ey?<br />
<br />
<br />
'''2349 BCE: The Great [[Flood]]'''<br />
*God flushed our world down the toilet and tried again<br />
*Year determined by James Ussher<br />
<br />
<br />
'''33rd c. BCE: Earliest known writings'''<br />
*Found in [[Harappa]] in the [[Indus]]-valley in Pakistan<br />
<br />
<br />
'''30th c. BCE: [[Sumerian]] [[cuneiform]] script'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''27th c. BCE: First [[Egypt]]ian alphabet'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1491 BCE: [[Exodus|Israel GTFO Egypt]]'''<br />
*Year determined by James Ussher<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1312 BCE: God revealed the [[Torah]] to [[Moses]]'''<br />
*We don't know, which language he used and what script Moses used to write it down. Most scripts were developed later:<br />
<br />
<br />
'''11th. c. BCE: Phoenician script'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''10th c. BCE: Cyrillic script'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''9th. c. BCE: Aramaic and Greek script'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''7th c. BCE: Latin alphabet'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''622 BCE: [[Hilkiah]] found the Torah'''<br />
<br />
Hilkiah was the high priest back then, see 2. Kings 22. We don't know, if he found the whole thing or just parts of it and we don't know the language and script of the copy he found.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''4th c. BCE: Torah (Law) and [[Nevi'im]] (Prophets) were canonized'''<br />
<br />
Basically what was read by the priests<br />
<br />
<br />
'''3rd c. BCE: [[Hebrew]] script'''<br />
<br />
Finally. Well, all of the above writings could not possibly have been written in Hebrew.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''250 BCE – 40 CE: [[Dead Sea Scrolls]]'''<br />
*Collection of 972 texts<br />
*Some biblical, some not<br />
<br />
<br />
'''250 BCE – 100 CE: [[Septuagint]]'''<br />
*First "official" translation of the Tanach into Greek<br />
<br />
<br />
'''12.25.04 BCE: [[Christmas]]'''<br />
*We finally get to worship Satan Claus and his X-Mas Pixies!<br />
*Year determined by James Ussher<br />
<br />
<br />
'''26 – 36 CE: Pontius Pilatus aka [[Pilate]] was governor of [[Judea]]'''<br />
*[[Judas]] snitched on Jesus for 30 measly bucks (cheap bastard!)<br />
*Pilate crucified him<br />
*[[Paul]] met his ghost 1 – 3 years later, converted and started one of the most successful [[sect]]s ever<br />
<br />
<br />
'''30 – 60 CE: Lost Passion'''<br />
*We don't have any original copies of this hypothetical document<br />
<br />
<br />
'''40 – 80 CE: [[Q document]] aka Q source'''<br />
*Hypothetical collection of sayings attributed to Jesus<br />
*No existing originals<br />
<br />
<br />
'''48 – 58 CE: Paul's [[Epistle]]s'''<br />
*Do we have original copies?<br />
<br />
<br />
'''48 – 120 CE: Earliest Christian writings'''<br />
*Again: We don't have copies!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''50 – 90 CE: [[Signs-Gospel]]'''<br />
*Again: No copies!<br />
*The Signs-Gospel is the hypothetical source of the [[Gospel of John]] which focuses on "demonstrating" the godliness of Jesus<br />
<br />
<br />
'''50 – 140 CE: [[Gospel of Thomas]]'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''65 – 120 CE: [[Gospel]]s'''<br />
*Christians like to date the Gospels around 35 CE to lend prophetic character to the hints of the destruction of the temple<br />
*We don't know the authors for sure<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Image:Fragment.jpg|thumb|right|First known fragment dated ca. 125 CE]]<br />
<br />
'''ca. 125 CE: Oldest known fragment of any Christian writing'''<br />
<br />
Nope, there are no older known copies!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''350 CE: Earliest complete copies of Christian writings'''<br />
*And they are copies of copies of copies of oral tradition<br />
*And they aren't autographed<br />
<br />
<br />
'''50 – 97 CE: [[Clemens Romanus]]'''<br />
*Important dude in the early church<br />
*We have many of his letters.<br />
*He never quoted any gospel, not even Mark. He would have known about the Gospel of Mark if Mark had written it for a Roman audience! <br />
*He frequently referred to Paul's Epistles and considered them to be wise advice (but not divinely inspired!)<br />
*Clemens' Jesus-quotes can't be found in any known source<br />
*Clemens' writings were considered divinely inspired by the early church<br />
<br />
<br />
'''80 – 180 CE: [[Didache]]'''<br />
*Exact dating is impossible, probably 110 CE<br />
*Authors are unknown<br />
*One of the oldest church regulations<br />
*Contains the Gospel of Matthew completely and refers to it as "'''''The''''' Gospel"<br />
*It doesn't quote any other Gospels<br />
*Considered canonical by [[Clement of Alexandria]] and others<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 100 CE: [[Synode of Jawne]]'''<br />
*[[Ketuvim]] (Writings) were canonized<br />
*The [[Tanach]] (Jewish "Bible") was officially finished<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 130 CE: [[Papias]], [[Bishop]] of [[Hierapolis]]'''<br />
*Wrote 5 books "Interpretations of the Sayings of the Lord", a collection of orally conveyed quotes of the apostles.<br />
*No original copies, fragments passed on by [[Eusebius of Caesarea]]<br />
*Interested in written text, but shows that oral tradition was way more important back then<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 130 CE: [[Polycarp]], Bishop of [[Smyrna]]'''<br />
*Wrote a letter containing ca. 100 quotes attributed to Jesus. Some of them match quotes from the Gospels, some match quotes from the Epistles<br />
*Polycarp didn't name sources<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 135 CE: [[Basileides]], a [[Gnostic]] from [[Alexandria]],'''<br />
*Wrote the "[[Exegetica]]", a Bible commentary in 24 volumes considered heretical<br />
*His sources are unknown<br />
*To this point "Jesus" or "Christ" was the only named authority. Now the doctrinal debates began and church leadership became a necessity to dictate and preserve official church [[doctrine]]<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 140 CE: The [[Shepherd of Hermas]]'''<br />
*Very popular together with the [[Barnabas-Epistle]]<br />
*Part of the [[Codex Sinaiticus]]<br />
*No quotes from any other texts of the [[New Testament]]<br />
*Refers to other Jewish Texts (Eldad and Medad)<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 144 CE: [[Marcion]] proposes a [[reformation]] of Christianity'''<br />
*He called the [[Old Testament]] contradictory, barbaric and untrue (and he's right about that!), only considered Paul's writings as inspired<br />
*Gnostic beliefs: Jesus wasn't human, there is no [[hell]]<br />
*Compiled the first Biblical canon: Gospel of Luke (w/o [[Nativity]] story and references to the Old Testament) and 10 Epistles<br />
*Was excommunicated and founded his own church, but his prefaces to the biblical texts made it into the Latin [[Vulgate]]<br />
<br />
<br />
'''157 CE: [[Montanism]]'''<br />
*Comparable to today's [[Pentecostal]] movement<br />
*[[Speaking in tongues]] and personal [[revelation]] were important<br />
*Laymen's opinions were regarded as important as clerical opinions<br />
*Expectation of the [[end times]]<br />
<br />
<br />
'''160 – 180 CE: [[Melitio]], Bishop of [[Sardis]]'''<br />
*Asked the Hebrews in Palestine, which writings are to be considered holy<br />
*Accepted their opinion without critical questioning and the [[Old Testament]] came into being<br />
*Also accepted apocryphal books (1st and 2nd [[Maccabees]], [[Book of Wisdom]] and [[Jesus Sirach]])<br />
<br />
Around this time the church began to send out [[priests]] to examine churches' doctrines after travellers reported doctrinal differences. The larger, stronger and richer churches dictated their doctrine on the smaller ones.<br />
<br />
Despite Marcion's canon, the heresy of the Montanism and doctrinal disputes there still was no official attempt to create an orthodox canon.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''150 – 200 CE: [[Acts of Paul]]'''<br />
*Apocryphal book, written to honour Paul<br />
*The priest who wrote it was ousted for falsification<br />
*Despite that his work stayed popular in the churches and is part of the [[Armenian Bible]] to this day<br />
<br />
<br />
'''172 CE: [[Tatian]] founded a church in Syria'''<br />
*after he was converted and trained by [[Justin the Martyr]]<br />
*Banned wine, meat and marriage<br />
*Compiled the Syrian canon: [[Diatessaron]], which is an edited and harmonized version of the 4 Gospels, several Epistles of Paul (which ones is unknown) and Acts.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''177 CE: [[Athenagoras]] invented the [[Trinity]]'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Serapion]] visited the churches in [[Asia]]'''<br />
<br />
and was confronted with disputes, whether the [[Gospel of Peter]] can or can't be read in churches. As quickly as he approved of it, he declared it heretical after reading it. <br />
<br />
'''NB:''' The Gospel of Peter also contains the [[Apocalypse of Peter]], an extremely graphic depiction of hell that still is considered divinely inspired. Poe couldn't have done it any better. [[Dante Alighieri]] did (and I recommend reading [[Dante's Inferno]] if you're into horror stories! Really, good snuff!).<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Dionysus]]'''<br />
*Demanded, that his letters and the "writings of the Lord" are revised, thus questioning the veracity of all Scripture<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' Even Paul points out the numerous forgeries!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Talmud]] was canonized'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Irenaeus]], Bishop of Lugdunum (Lyon, France)'''<br />
*Quoted almost every book in the modern New Testament which points to an inofficial canon<br />
*He stated that there have to be exactly 4 Gospels, since there are 4 directions, 4 winds, 4 blah and 4 blib<br />
<br />
<br />
'''Basic rules of determining the veracity of a text:'''<br />
*If it fits your doctrine, it's inspired.<br />
*If it doesn't, it isn't.<br />
*Might makes right. God will surely make sure that the right dudes are in power. (What about the girls?)<br />
*Literary history and scholarship don't count. Which isn't surprising in the light of people relying on oral tradition.<br />
*I just wrote oral<br />
*You just giggled<br />
<br />
<br />
'''150 – 215 CE: Titus Flavius Clemens aka [[Clement]] of Alexandria'''<br />
*First serious scholar among the church fathers<br />
*Quoted written sources ca. 8,000 times<br />
*2,500 of the quotes were not Christian or Jewish<br />
*Agreed with Tatian's Diatessaron but also accepts the Gnostic [[Egyptian Gospel]], the [[Hebrew Gospel]], the [[Traditions of Matthias]], the Shepherd of Hermas, the Barnabas-Epistle, the Apocalypse of Peter, the Didache and oral tradition<br />
*You just realized that i wrote oral again<br />
<br />
<br />
'''The "secret [[Gospel of Mark]]"'''<br />
<br />
Clement mentioned 3 different versions of the Gospel of Mark in a letter to Theodoros:<br />
*A short version written in Rome, based on the teachings of Peter<br />
*A longer, more spiritual version written in Alexandria after Peter's death<br />
*A "secret" version, 2 fragments of which are preserved together with the letter<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' Many writings were falsified, hidden or disposed of to preserve doctrine!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 195 CE: Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullianus aka [[Tertullian]]'''<br />
*Compiled a commented list of books he accepted including, among others, the traditional inofficial canon and the Shepherd of Hermas<br />
*Pissed off by the envy and laxity of the Roman clergy he converted to Montanism<br />
<br />
<br />
'''203 CE: Origenes Adamantius aka [[Origen]] '''<br />
*Became head of the Christian Seminar of Alexandria at the age of 18<br />
*Performed the first scientific examination of Christianity<br />
<br />
In 231 CE he fled to [[Caesarea]] after a clash with Bishop [[Demetrius]]. He founded a new school there that soon outshone the school in Alexandria. He converted [[Ambrosius]] from gnostic [[Valentianism]] to [[Orthodoxy]]. Ambrosius became his financier.<br />
He agreed with Tatian's Diatessaron and calls it the only reliable piece of work criticized by no one (only talking about non-heretics, which indicates that non-heretics, too, argued about the Gospels). He also accepted the Gospel of Peter, the Shepherd of Hermas, Didache, the Barnabas-Epistle as holy scriptures but he doubted the veracity of the 2nd and 3rd Epistles of John, the 2nd Epistle of Paul and the Hebrew Epistle.<br />
<br />
Origen castrated himself which was a capital crime in Rome (and pretty stupid, too).<br />
<br />
<br />
'''Late 2nd to 4th c. CE: [[Canon Muratori]]'''<br />
*Fragment of a commented Latin list of writings including the Apocalypse of John, the Apocalypse of Peter and the Book of Wisdom<br />
*Calls the Shepherd of Hermas commendable but not inspired<br />
*Doesn't include Hebrews, Jacob, 1. and 2. Peter and 3. John<br />
*Contradicts Marcionism, Montanism, Valentianism and other gnostic flavours<br />
*Indicates an existing canon as soon as the 2nd century CE<br />
<br />
<br />
'''260/264 – 339/340 CE: [[Eusebius]] of Caesarea '''<br />
*Followed Origen's teachings<br />
*Agreed with the Trinity-concept, albeit with Jesus on a lower rank than God<br />
*Agreed with forgeries and lies in favour of God and against heresy<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' Almost everything we know about early church history we know '''''from this guy!''''' He's the only source for many pieces of information.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''4th c. CE: [[Codex Sinaiticus]]'''<br />
*Bible manuscript found at the [[Mount Sinai]]<br />
*Contains large portions of the Old Testament, the entire New Testament from Matthew to Revelations, the Shepherd of Hermas and the Barnabas-Epistle<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 350 CE: [[Cyril]] of Jerusalem published his own canon '''<br />
*as part of his 23 [[catechetical lectures]]<br />
*First official canon of a high-ranking church leader<br />
*Insisted that only books from his list may be read, even in private<br />
*Identical with today's canon without the Apocalypse of John<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' One single man decided!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''363 – 364 CE: [[Synode of Laodicea]]'''<br />
*Ca. 20 – 30 Bishops gathered to constitute an official canon<br />
*They agreed on Cyril's canon<br />
<br />
<br />
'''367 CE: [[Athanasius]] the Great, Bishop of Alexandria'''<br />
*Listed the 27 books of the modern New Testament in his [[39th Festal Letter]] thus adding the Apocalypse of John to the canon<br />
*Ruled that the canon may not be changed anymore<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' Again one single man decided!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''692 CE: Concilium Quinisextum aka [[2nd Trullan Synode]]'''<br />
*Convoked by Emperor [[Justinian II]] in Trullo<br />
*Upheld the Synode of Laodicea '''and''' Athanasius despite the disagreement about the Apocalypse of John<br />
*Declared the Clement-Epistles as holy and part of the Bible<br />
*Added 8 more books "which it is not appropriate to make public before all, because of the mysteries contained in them"<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1443 CE: [[Council of Florence]]'''<br />
*Upheld Athanasius' list<br />
*finally sealed the 27-books-canon of the New Testament<br />
*Was convoked because the authenticity esp. of the Hebrew-Epistle were doubted when the people of the [[Renaissance]] began to read and think for themselves<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1516 CE: First edition of the [[Textus Receptus]] in Greek'''<br />
*Published by [[Erasmus of Rotterdam]] <br />
*The first edition was fairly flawed<br />
*Many Bible translations are based on the Textus Receptus<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1521 CE: [[Martin Luther]] translated the New Testament into German'''<br />
*Used the 2nd edition of Erasmus' Textus Receptus, Erasmus' Latin translation and the Latin Vulgate<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1523 CE: Luther translated the first part of the Old Testament into German'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1534 CE: Luther finished his translation of the Old Testament'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1545 - 1463 CE: [[Council of Trent]]'''<br />
*Affirmed the Council of Florence<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1604 – 1611 CE: Translation of the [[KJV]]'''<br />
*From now on Jesus speaks English!<br />
<br />
<br />
== Sources ==<br />
<br />
*"The History of the Biblical Canon" by Matt Dillahunty, ACA<br />
<br />
*http://www.wikipedia.org<br />
<br />
[[Category:Bible]] [[Category:History]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=History_of_the_Biblical_canonHistory of the Biblical canon2011-06-11T02:02:52Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=THIS ARTICLE NEEDS TO BE REVIEWED, CHECKED, DOUBLE-CHECKED AND CHECKED AGAIN!!!}}<br />
<br />
'''13.75 ± 0.11 x 10^9 BCE: [[Big Bang]]'''<br />
<br />
The [[universe]] changd it's shape from [[singularity]] to... well... universe. <br />
Or maybe [[God]] farted. Who knows?<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200,000 BCE: First structures in France and Japan'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''50,000 BCE: [[Homo Sapiens]] reached full behavioural modernity'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''12,500 – 9,500 BCE: [[Natufian Culture]]'''<br />
*Early culture in the [[middle east]]<br />
*Located where we find Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan and Israel today<br />
*Agriculture and the domestication of dogs<br />
<br />
<br />
'''10.23.4004 BCE, 09:00 am: [[God]] created the heavens and the earth'''<br />
*Date determined by [[James Ussher]] by adding up dates from the [[KJV]], but we can't be particularly sure. Nobody saw him do it and many Christian scholars' studies produce different results. <br />
*I guess God did a pretty good job but I think we all agree that banishing [[Lucifer]] to earth instead of hitting DEL was kinda stupid, ey?<br />
<br />
<br />
'''2349 BCE: The Great [[Flood]]'''<br />
*God flushed our world down the toilet and tried again<br />
*Year determined by James Ussher<br />
<br />
<br />
'''33rd c. BCE: Earliest known writings'''<br />
*Found in [[Harappa]] in the [[Indus]]-valley in Pakistan<br />
<br />
<br />
'''30th c. BCE: [[Sumerian]] [[cuneiform]] script'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''27th c. BCE: First [[Egypt]]ian alphabet'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1491 BCE: [[Exodus|Israel GTFO Egypt]]'''<br />
*Year determined by James Ussher<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1312 BCE: God revealed the [[Torah]] to [[Moses]]'''<br />
*We don't know, which language he used and what script Moses used to write it down. Most scripts were developed later:<br />
<br />
<br />
'''11th. c. BCE: Phoenician script'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''10th c. BCE: Cyrillic script'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''9th. c. BCE: Aramaic and Greek script'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''7th c. BCE: Latin alphabet'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''622 BCE: [[Hilkiah]] found the Torah'''<br />
<br />
Hilkiah was the high priest back then, see 2. Kings 22. We don't know, if he found the whole thing or just parts of it and we don't know the language and script of the copy he found.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''4th c. BCE: Torah (Law) and [[Nevi'im]] (Prophets) were canonized'''<br />
<br />
Basically what was read by the priests<br />
<br />
<br />
'''3rd c. BCE: [[Hebrew]] script'''<br />
<br />
Finally. Well, all of the above writings could not possibly have been written in Hebrew.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''250 BCE – 40 CE: [[Dead Sea Scrolls]]'''<br />
*Collection of 972 texts<br />
*Some biblical, some not<br />
<br />
<br />
'''250 BCE – 100 CE: [[Septuagint]]'''<br />
*First "official" translation of the Tanach into Greek<br />
<br />
<br />
'''12.25.04 BCE: [[Christmas]]'''<br />
*We finally get to worship Satan Claus and his X-Mas Pixies!<br />
*Year determined by James Ussher<br />
<br />
<br />
'''26 – 36 CE: Pontius Pilatus aka [[Pilate]] was governor of [[Judea]]'''<br />
*[[Judas]] snitched on Jesus for 30 measly bucks (cheap bastard!)<br />
*Pilate crucified him<br />
*[[Paul]] met his ghost 1 – 3 years later, converted and started one of the most successful [[sect]]s ever<br />
<br />
<br />
'''30 – 60 CE: Lost Passion'''<br />
*We don't have any original copies of this hypothetical document<br />
<br />
<br />
'''40 – 80 CE: [[Q document]] aka Q source'''<br />
*Hypothetical collection of sayings attributed to Jesus<br />
*No existing originals<br />
<br />
<br />
'''48 – 58 CE: Paul's [[Epistle]]s'''<br />
*Do we have original copies?<br />
<br />
<br />
'''48 – 120 CE: Earliest Christian writings'''<br />
*Again: We don't have copies!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''50 – 90 CE: [[Signs-Gospel]]'''<br />
*Again: No copies!<br />
*The Signs-Gospel is the hypothetical source of the [[Gospel of John]] which focuses on "demonstrating" the godliness of Jesus<br />
<br />
<br />
'''50 – 140 CE: [[Gospel of Thomas]]'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''65 – 120 CE: [[Gospel]]s'''<br />
*Christians like to date the Gospels around 35 CE to lend prophetic character to the hints of the destruction of the temple<br />
*We don't know the authors for sure<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Image:Fragment.jpg|thumb|right|First known fragment dated ca. 125 CE]]<br />
<br />
'''ca. 125 CE: Oldest known fragment of any Christian writing'''<br />
<br />
Nope, there are no older known copies!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''350 CE: Earliest complete copies of Christian writings'''<br />
*And they are copies of copies of copies of oral tradition<br />
*And they aren't autographed<br />
<br />
<br />
'''50 – 97 CE: [[Clemens Romanus]]'''<br />
*Important dude in the early church<br />
*We have many of his letters.<br />
*He never quoted any gospel, not even Mark. He would have known about the Gospel of Mark if Mark had written it for a Roman audience! <br />
*He frequently referred to Paul's Epistles and considered them to be wise advice (but not divinely inspired!)<br />
*Clemens' Jesus-quotes can't be found in any known source<br />
*Clemens' writings were considered divinely inspired by the early church<br />
<br />
<br />
'''80 – 180 CE: [[Didache]]'''<br />
*Exact dating is impossible, probably 110 CE<br />
*Authors are unknown<br />
*One of the oldest church regulations<br />
*Contains the Gospel of Matthew completely and refers to it as "'''''The''''' Gospel"<br />
*It doesn't quote any other Gospels<br />
*Considered canonical by [[Clement of Alexandria]] and others<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 100 CE: [[Synode of Jawne]]'''<br />
*[[Ketuvim]] (Writings) were canonized<br />
*The [[Tanach]] (Jewish "Bible") was officially finished<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 130 CE: [[Papias]], [[Bishop]] of [[Hierapolis]]'''<br />
*Wrote 5 books "Interpretations of the Sayings of the Lord", a collection of orally conveyed quotes of the apostles.<br />
*No original copies, fragments passed on by [[Eusebius of Caesarea]]<br />
*Interested in written text, but shows that oral tradition was way more important back then<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 130 CE: [[Polycarp]], Bishop of [[Smyrna]]'''<br />
*Wrote a letter containing ca. 100 quotes attributed to Jesus. Some of them match quotes from the Gospels, some match quotes from the Epistles<br />
*Polycarp didn't name sources<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 135 CE: [[Basileides]], a [[Gnostic]] from [[Alexandria]],'''<br />
*Wrote the "[[Exegetica]]", a Bible commentary in 24 volumes considered heretical<br />
*His sources are unknown<br />
*To this point "Jesus" or "Christ" was the only named authority. Now the doctrinal debates began and church leadership became a necessity to dictate and preserve official church [[doctrine]]<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 140 CE: The [[Shepherd of Hermas]]'''<br />
*Very popular together with the [[Barnabas-Epistle]]<br />
*Part of the [[Codex Sinaiticus]]<br />
*No quotes from any other texts of the [[New Testament]]<br />
*Refers to other Jewish Texts (Eldad and Medad)<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 144 CE: [[Marcion]] proposes a [[reformation]] of Christianity'''<br />
*He called the [[Old Testament]] contradictory, barbaric and untrue (and he's right about that!), only considered Paul's writings as inspired<br />
*Gnostic beliefs: Jesus wasn't human, there is no [[hell]]<br />
*Compiled the first Biblical canon: Gospel of Luke (w/o [[Nativity]] story and references to the Old Testament) and 10 Epistles<br />
*Was excommunicated and founded his own church, but his prefaces to the biblical texts made it into the Latin [[Vulgate]]<br />
<br />
<br />
'''157 CE: [[Montanism]]'''<br />
*Comparable to today's [[Pentecostal]] movement<br />
*[[Speaking in tongues]] and personal [[revelation]] were important<br />
*Laymen's opinions were regarded as important as clerical opinions<br />
*Expectation of the [[end times]]<br />
<br />
<br />
'''160 – 180 CE: [[Melitio]], Bishop of [[Sardis]]'''<br />
*Asked the Hebrews in Palestine, which writings are to be considered holy<br />
*Accepted their opinion without critical questioning and the [[Old Testament]] came into being<br />
*Also accepted apocryphal books (1st and 2nd [[Maccabees]], [[Book of Wisdom]] and [[Jesus Sirach]])<br />
<br />
Around this time the church began to send out [[priests]] to examine churches' doctrines after travellers reported doctrinal differences. The larger, stronger and richer churches dictated their doctrine on the smaller ones.<br />
<br />
Despite Marcion's canon, the heresy of the Montanism and doctrinal disputes there still was no official attempt to create an orthodox canon.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''150 – 200 CE: [[Acts of Paul]]'''<br />
*Apocryphal book, written to honour Paul<br />
*The priest who wrote it was ousted for falsification<br />
*Despite that his work stayed popular in the churches and is part of the [[Armenian Bible]] to this day<br />
<br />
<br />
'''172 CE: [[Tatian]] founded a church in Syria'''<br />
*after he was converted and trained by [[Justin the Martyr]]<br />
*Banned wine, meat and marriage<br />
*Compiled the Syrian canon: [[Diatessaron]], which is an edited and harmonized version of the 4 Gospels, several Epistles of Paul (which ones is unknown) and Acts.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''177 CE: [[Athenagoras]] invented the [[Trinity]]'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Serapion]] visited the churches in [[Asia]]'''<br />
<br />
and was confronted with disputes, whether the [[Gospel of Peter]] can or can't be read in churches. As quickly as he approved of it, he declared it heretical after reading it. <br />
<br />
'''NB:''' The Gospel of Peter also contains the [[Apocalypse of Peter]], an extremely graphic depiction of hell that still is considered divinely inspired. Poe couldn't have done it any better. [[Dante Alighieri]] did (and I recommend reading [[Dante's Inferno]] if you're into horror stories! Really, good snuff!).<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Dionysus]]'''<br />
*Demanded, that his letters and the "writings of the Lord" are revised, thus questioning the veracity of all Scripture<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' Even Paul points out the numerous forgeries!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Talmud]] was canonized'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Irenaeus]], Bishop of Lugdunum (Lyon, France)'''<br />
*Quoted almost every book in the modern New Testament which points to an inofficial canon<br />
*He stated that there have to be exactly 4 Gospels, since there are 4 directions, 4 winds, 4 blah and 4 blib<br />
<br />
<br />
'''Basic rules of determining the veracity of a text:'''<br />
*If it fits your doctrine, it's inspired.<br />
*If it doesn't, it isn't.<br />
*Might makes right. God will surely make sure that the right dudes are in power. (What about the girls?)<br />
*Literary history and scholarship don't count. Which isn't surprising in the light of people relying on oral tradition.<br />
*I just wrote oral<br />
*You just giggled<br />
<br />
<br />
'''150 – 215 CE: Titus Flavius Clemens aka [[Clement]] of Alexandria'''<br />
*First serious scholar among the church fathers<br />
*Quoted written sources ca. 8,000 times<br />
*2,500 of the quotes were not Christian or Jewish<br />
*Agreed with Tatian's Diatessaron but also accepts the Gnostic [[Egyptian Gospel]], the [[Hebrew Gospel]], the [[Traditions of Matthias]], the Shepherd of Hermas, the Barnabas-Epistle, the Apocalypse of Peter, the Didache and oral tradition<br />
*You just realized that i wrote oral again<br />
<br />
<br />
'''The "secret [[Gospel of Mark]]"'''<br />
<br />
Clement mentioned 3 different versions of the Gospel of Mark in a letter to Theodoros:<br />
*A short version written in Rome, based on the teachings of Peter<br />
*A longer, more spiritual version written in Alexandria after Peter's death<br />
*A "secret" version, 2 fragments of which are preserved together with the letter<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' Many writings were falsified, hidden or disposed of to preserve doctrine!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 195 CE: Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullianus aka [[Tertullian]]'''<br />
*Compiled a commented list of books he accepted including, among others, the traditional inofficial canon and the Shepherd of Hermas<br />
*Pissed off by the envy and laxity of the Roman clergy he converted to Montanism<br />
<br />
<br />
'''203 CE: Origenes Adamantius aka [[Origen]] '''<br />
*Became head of the Christian Seminar of Alexandria at the age of 18<br />
*Performed the first scientific examination of Christianity<br />
<br />
In 231 CE he fled to [[Caesarea]] after a clash with Bishop [[Demetrius]]. He founded a new school there that soon outshone the school in Alexandria. He converted [[Ambrosius]] from gnostic [[Valentianism]] to [[Orthodoxy]]. Ambrosius became his financier.<br />
He agreed with Tatian's Diatessaron and calls it the only reliable piece of work criticized by no one (only talking about non-heretics, which indicates that non-heretics, too, argued about the Gospels). He also accepted the Gospel of Peter, the Shepherd of Hermas, Didache, the Barnabas-Epistle as holy scriptures but he doubted the veracity of the 2nd and 3rd Epistles of John, the 2nd Epistle of Paul and the Hebrew Epistle.<br />
<br />
Origen castrated himself which was a capital crime in Rome (and pretty stupid, too).<br />
<br />
<br />
'''Late 2nd to 4th c. CE: [[Canon Muratori]]'''<br />
*Fragment of a commented Latin list of writings including the Apocalypse of John, the Apocalypse of Peter and the Book of Wisdom<br />
*Calls the Shepherd of Hermas commendable but not inspired<br />
*Doesn't include Hebrews, Jacob, 1. and 2. Peter and 3. John<br />
*Contradicts Marcionism, Montanism, Valentianism and other gnostic flavours<br />
*Indicates an existing canon as soon as the 2nd century CE<br />
<br />
<br />
'''260/264 – 339/340 CE: [[Eusebius]] of Caesarea '''<br />
*Followed Origen's teachings<br />
*Agreed with the Trinity-concept, albeit with Jesus on a lower rank than God<br />
*Agreed with forgeries and lies in favour of God and against heresy<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' Almost everything we know about early church history we know '''''from this guy!''''' He's the only source for many pieces of information.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''4th c. CE: [[Codex Sinaiticus]]'''<br />
*Bible manuscript found at the [[Mount Sinai]]<br />
*Contains large portions of the Old Testament, the entire New Testament from Matthew to Revelations, the Shepherd of Hermas and the Barnabas-Epistle<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 350 CE: [[Cyril]] of Jerusalem published his own canon '''<br />
*as part of his 23 [[catechetical lectures]]<br />
*First official canon of a high-ranking church leader<br />
*Insisted that only books from his list may be read, even in private<br />
*Identical with today's canon without the Apocalypse of John<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' One single man decided!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''363 – 364 CE: [[Synode of Laodicea]]'''<br />
*Ca. 20 – 30 Bishops gathered to constitute an official canon<br />
*They agreed on Cyril's canon<br />
<br />
<br />
'''367 CE: [[Athanasius]] the Great, Bishop of Alexandria'''<br />
*Listed the 27 books of the modern New Testament in his [[39th Festal Letter]] thus adding the Apocalypse of John to the canon<br />
*Ruled that the canon may not be changed anymore<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' Again one single man decided!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''692 CE: Concilium Quinisextum aka [[2nd Trullan Synode]]'''<br />
*Convoked by Emperor [[Justinian II]] in Trullo<br />
*Upheld the Synode of Laodicea '''and''' Athanasius despite the disagreement about the Apocalypse of John<br />
*Declared the Clement-Epistles as holy and part of the Bible<br />
*Added 8 more books "which it is not appropriate to make public before all, because of the mysteries contained in them"<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1443 CE: [[Council of Florence]]'''<br />
*Upheld Athanasius' list<br />
*finally sealed the 27-books-canon of the New Testament<br />
*Was convoked because the authenticity esp. of the Hebrew-Epistle were doubted when the people of the [[Renaissance]] began to read and think for themselves<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1516 CE: First edition of the [[Textus Receptus]] in Greek'''<br />
*Published by [[Erasmus of Rotterdam]] <br />
*The first edition was fairly flawed<br />
*Many Bible translations are based on the Textus Receptus<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1521 CE: [[Martin Luther]] translated the New Testament into German'''<br />
*Used the 2nd edition of Erasmus' Textus Receptus, Erasmus' Latin translation and the Latin Vulgate<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1523 CE: Luther translated the first part of the Old Testament into German'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1534 CE: Luther finished his translation of the Old Testament'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1545 - 1463 CE: [[Council of Trent]]'''<br />
*Affirmed the Council of Florence<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1604 – 1611 CE: Translation of the [[KJV]]'''<br />
*From now on Jesus speaks English!<br />
<br />
<br />
== Sources ==<br />
<br />
*"The History of the Biblical Canon" by Matt Dillahunty, ACA<br />
<br />
*http://www.wikipedia.org<br />
<br />
[[Category:Bible]] [[Category:History]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=History_of_the_Biblical_canonHistory of the Biblical canon2011-06-11T01:54:53Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=THIS ARTICLE NEEDS TO BE REVIEWED, CHECKED, DOUBLE-CHECKED AND CHECKED AGAIN!!!}}<br />
<br />
'''13.75 ± 0.11 x 10^9 [[BCE]]: [[Big Bang]]'''<br />
<br />
The [[universe]] changd it's shape from [[singularity]] to... well... universe. <br />
Or maybe [[God]] farted. Who knows?<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200,000 BCE: First structures in France and Japan'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''50,000 BCE: [[Homo Sapiens]] reached full behavioural modernity'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''12,500 – 9,500 BCE: [[Natufian Culture]]'''<br />
*Early culture in the [[middle east]]<br />
*Located where we find Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan and Israel today<br />
*Agriculture and the domestication of dogs<br />
<br />
<br />
'''10.23.4004 BCE 09:00 am: [[God]] created the heavens and the earth'''<br />
*Date determined by [[James Ussher]] by adding up dates from the [[KJV]], but we can't be particularly sure. Nobody saw him do it and many Christian scholars' studies produce different results. <br />
*I guess God did a pretty good job but I think we all agree that banishing [[Lucifer]] to earth instead of hitting DEL was kinda stupid, ey?<br />
<br />
<br />
'''2349 BCE: The Great [[Flood]]'''<br />
*God flushed our world down the toilet and tried again<br />
*Year determined by James Ussher<br />
<br />
<br />
'''33rd c. BCE: Earliest known writings'''<br />
*Found in [[Harappa]] in the [[Indus]]-valley in Pakistan<br />
<br />
<br />
'''30th c. BCE: [[Sumerian]] [[cuneiform]] script'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''27th c. BCE: First [[Egypt]]ian alphabet'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1491 BCE: [[Exodus|Israel GTFO Egypt]]'''<br />
*Year determined by James Ussher<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1312 BCE: God revealed the [[Torah]] to [[Moses]]'''<br />
*We don't know, which language he used and what script Moses used to write it down. Most scripts were developed later:<br />
<br />
<br />
'''11th. c. BCE: Phoenician script'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''10th c. BCE: Cyrillic script'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''9th. c. BCE: Aramaic and Greek script'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''7th c. BCE: Latin alphabet'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''622 BCE: [[Hilkiah]] found the Torah'''<br />
<br />
Hilkiah was the high priest back then, see 2. Kings 22. We don't know, if he found the whole thing or just parts of it and we don't know the language and script of the copy he found.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''4th c. BCE: Torah (Law) and [[Nevi'im]] (Prophets) were canonized'''<br />
*Basically what was read by the priests.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''3rd c. BCE: [[Hebrew]] script'''<br />
<br />
Finally. Well, all of the above writings could not possibly have been written in Hebrew.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''250 BCE – 40 CE: [[Dead Sea Scrolls]]'''<br />
*Collection of 972 texts<br />
*Some biblical, some not<br />
<br />
<br />
'''250 BCE – 100 CE: [[Septuagint]]'''<br />
*First "official" translation of the Tanach into Greek<br />
<br />
<br />
'''12.25.04 BCE: [[Christmas]]'''<br />
*We finally get to worship Satan Claus and his X-Mas Pixies!<br />
*Year determined by James Ussher<br />
<br />
<br />
'''26 – 36 CE: Pontius Pilatus aka [[Pilate]] was governor of [[Judea]]'''<br />
*[[Judas]] snitched on Jesus for 30 measly bucks (cheap bastard!)<br />
*Pilate crucified him<br />
*[[Paul]] met his ghost 1 – 3 years later, converted and started one of the most successful [[sect]]s ever.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''30 – 60 CE: Lost Passion'''<br />
*We don't have any original copies of this hypothetical document.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''40 – 80 CE: [[Q document]] aka Q source'''<br />
*Hypothetical collection of sayings attributed to Jesus<br />
*No existing originals<br />
<br />
<br />
'''48 – 58 CE: Paul's [[Epistle]]s'''<br />
*Do we have original copies?<br />
<br />
<br />
'''48 – 120 CE: Earliest Christian writings'''<br />
*Again: We don't have copies!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''50 – 90 CE: [[Signs-Gospel]]'''<br />
*Again: No copies. <br />
*The Signs-Gospel is the hypothetical source of the [[Gospel of John]] which focuses on "demonstrating" the godliness of Jesus.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''50 – 140 CE: [[Gospel of Thomas]]'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''65 – 120 CE: [[Gospel]]s'''<br />
*Christians like to date the Gospels around 35 CE to lend prophetic character to the hints of the destruction of the temple. <br />
*We don't know the authors for sure.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Image:Fragment.jpg|thumb|right|First known fragment dated ca. 125 CE]]<br />
<br />
'''ca. 125 CE: Oldest known fragment of any Christian writing'''<br />
*Nope, there are no older known copies!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''350 CE: Earliest complete copies of Christian writings'''<br />
*And they are copies of copies of copies of oral tradition. <br />
*And they aren't autographed.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''50 – 97 CE: [[Clemens Romanus]]'''<br />
*Important dude in the early church. <br />
*We have many of his letters. <br />
*He never quoted any gospel, not even Mark. He would have known about the Gospel of Mark if Mark had written it for a Roman audience! <br />
*He frequently referred to Paul's Epistles and considered them to be wise advice (but not divinely inspired!)<br />
*Clemens' Jesus-quotes can't be found in any known source.<br />
*Clemens' writings were considered divinely inspired by the early church.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''80 – 180 CE: [[Didache]]'''<br />
*Exact dating is impossible, probably 110 CE.<br />
*Authors are unknown<br />
*One of the oldest church regulations<br />
*Contains the Gospel of Matthew completely and refers to it as "'''''The''''' Gospel".<br />
*It doesn't quote any other Gospels.<br />
*Considered canonical by [[Clement of Alexandria]] and others<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 100 CE: [[Synode of Jawne]]'''<br />
*[[Ketuvim]] (Writings) were canonized<br />
*The [[Tanach]] (Jewish "Bible") was officially finished.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 130 CE: [[Papias]], [[Bishop]] of [[Hierapolis]]'''<br />
*Wrote 5 books "Interpretations of the Sayings of the Lord", a collection of orally conveyed quotes of the apostles.<br />
*No original copies, fragments passed on by [[Eusebius of Caesarea]].<br />
*Interested in written text, but shows that oral tradition was way more important back then.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 130 CE: [[Polycarp]], Bishop of [[Smyrna]]'''<br />
*Wrote a letter containing ca. 100 quotes attributed to Jesus. Some of them match quotes from the Gospels, some match quotes from the Epistles. <br />
*Polycarp doesn't name sources.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 135 CE: [[Basileides]], a [[Gnostic]] from [[Alexandria]],'''<br />
*Wrote the "[[Exegetica]]", a Bible commentary in 24 volumes considered heretical. <br />
*His sources are unknown. <br />
*To this point "Jesus" or "Christ" was the only named authority. Now the doctrinal debates began and church leadership became a necessity to dictate and preserve official church [[doctrine]]. <br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 140 CE: The [[Shepherd of Hermas]]'''<br />
*Very popular together with the [[Barnabas-Epistle]]<br />
*Part of the [[Codex Sinaiticus]]<br />
*No quotes from any other texts of the [[New Testament]]<br />
*Refers to other Jewish Texts (Eldad and Medad)<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 144 CE: [[Marcion]] proposes a [[reformation]] of Christianity'''<br />
*He called the [[Old Testament]] contradictory, barbaric and untrue (and he's right about that!), only considered Paul's writings as inspired. <br />
*Gnostic beliefs: Jesus wasn't human, there is no [[hell]]<br />
*Compiled the first Biblical canon: Gospel of Luke (w/o [[Nativity]] story and references to the Old Testament) and 10 Epistles.<br />
*Was excommunicated and founded his own church, but his prefaces to the biblical texts made it into the Latin [[Vulgate]]<br />
<br />
<br />
'''157 CE: [[Montanism]]'''<br />
*Comparable to today's [[Pentecostal]] movement<br />
*[[Speaking in tongues]] and personal [[revelation]] were important<br />
*Laymen's opinions were regarded as important as clerical opinions<br />
*Expectation of the [[end times]]<br />
<br />
<br />
'''160 – 180 CE: [[Melitio]], Bishop of [[Sardis]]'''<br />
*Asked the Hebrews in Palestine, which writings are to be considered holy. <br />
*Accepted their opinion without critical questioning and the [[Old Testament]] came into being. <br />
*Also accepted apocryphal books (1st and 2nd [[Maccabees]], [[Book of Wisdom]] and [[Jesus Sirach]])<br />
<br />
Around this time the church began to send out [[priests]] to examine churches' doctrines after travellers reported doctrinal differences. The larger, stronger and richer churches dictated their doctrine on the smaller ones.<br />
<br />
Despite Marcion's canon, the heresy of the Montanism and doctrinal disputes there still was no official attempt to create an orthodox canon.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''150 – 200 CE: [[Acts of Paul]]'''<br />
*Apocryphal book, written to honour Paul<br />
*The priest who wrote it was ousted for falsification<br />
*Despite that his work stayed popular in the churches and is part of the [[Armenian Bible]] to this day.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''172 CE: [[Tatian]] founded a church in Syria'''<br />
*after he was converted and trained by [[Justin the Martyr]]<br />
*Banned wine, meat and marriage<br />
*Compiled the Syrian canon: [[Diatessaron]], which is an edited and harmonized version of the 4 Gospels, several Epistles of Paul (which ones is unknown) and Acts. <br />
<br />
<br />
'''177 CE: [[Athenagoras]] invented the [[Trinity]]'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Serapion]] visited the churches in [[Asia]]'''<br />
<br />
and was confronted with disputes, whether the [[Gospel of Peter]] can or can't be read in churches. As quickly as he approved of it, he declared it heretical after reading it. <br />
<br />
'''NB:''' The Gospel of Peter also contains the [[Apocalypse of Peter]], an extremely graphic depiction of hell that still is considered divinely inspired. Poe couldn't have done it any better. [[Dante Alighieri]] did (and I recommend reading [[Dante's Inferno]] if you're into horror stories! Really, good snuff!).<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Dionysus]]'''<br />
*Demanded, that his letters and the "writings of the Lord" are revised, thus questioning the veracity of all Scripture.<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' Even Paul points out the numerous forgeries!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Talmud]] was canonized'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Irenaeus]], Bishop of Lugdunum (Lyon, France)'''<br />
*Quoted almost every book in the modern New Testament which points to an inofficial canon.<br />
*He stated that there have to be exactly 4 Gospels, since there are 4 directions, 4 winds, 4 blah and 4 blib.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''Basic rules of determining the veracity of a text:'''<br />
*If it fits your doctrine, it's inspired.<br />
*If it doesn't, it isn't.<br />
*Might makes right. God will surely make sure that the right dudes are in power. (What about the girls?)<br />
*Literary history and scholarship don't count. Which isn't surprising in the light of people relying on oral tradition.<br />
*I just wrote oral<br />
*You just giggled<br />
<br />
<br />
'''150 – 215 CE: Titus Flavius Clemens aka [[Clement]] of Alexandria'''<br />
*First serious scholar among the church fathers<br />
*Quoted written sources ca. 8,000 times<br />
*2,500 of the quotes were not Christian or Jewish<br />
*Agreed with Tatian's Diatessaron but also accepts the Gnostic [[Egyptian Gospel]], the [[Hebrew Gospel]], the [[Traditions of Matthias]], the Shepherd of Hermas, the Barnabas-Epistle, the Apocalypse of Peter, the Didache and oral tradition.<br />
*You just realized that i wrote oral again.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''The "secret [[Gospel of Mark]]"'''<br />
<br />
Clement mentioned 3 different versions of the Gospel of Mark in a letter to Theodoros:<br />
*A short version written in Rome, based on the teachings of Peter<br />
*A longer, more spiritual version written in Alexandria after Peter's death<br />
*A "secret" version, 2 fragments of which are preserved together with the letter<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' Many writings were falsified, hidden or disposed of to preserve doctrine!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 195 CE: Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullianus aka [[Tertullian]]'''<br />
*Compiled a commented list of books he accepted including, among others, the traditional inofficial canon and the Shepherd of Hermas.<br />
*Pissed off by the envy and laxity of the Roman clergy he converted to Montanism.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''203 CE: Origenes Adamantius aka [[Origen]] '''<br />
*Became head of the Christian Seminar of Alexandria at the age of 18<br />
*Performed the first scientific examination of Christianity<br />
<br />
In 231 CE he fled to [[Caesarea]] after a clash with Bishop [[Demetrius]]. He founded a new school there that soon outshone the school in Alexandria. He converted [[Ambrosius]] from gnostic [[Valentianism]] to [[Orthodoxy]]. Ambrosius became his financier.<br />
He agreed with Tatian's Diatessaron and calls it the only reliable piece of work criticized by no one (only talking about non-heretics, which indicates that non-heretics, too, argued about the Gospels). He also accepted the Gospel of Peter, the Shepherd of Hermas, Didache, the Barnabas-Epistle as holy scriptures but he doubted the veracity of the 2nd and 3rd Epistles of John, the 2nd Epistle of Paul and the Hebrew Epistle.<br />
<br />
Origen castrated himself which was a capital crime in Rome (and pretty stupid, too).<br />
<br />
<br />
'''Late 2nd to 4th c. CE: [[Canon Muratori]]'''<br />
*Fragment of a commented Latin list of writings including the Apocalypse of John, the Apocalypse of Peter and the Book of Wisdom<br />
*Calls the Shepherd of Hermas commendable but not inspired<br />
*Doesn't include Hebrews, Jacob, 1. and 2. Peter and 3. John<br />
*Contradicts Marcionism, Montanism, Valentianism and other gnostic flavours<br />
*Indicates an existing canon as soon as the 2nd century CE<br />
<br />
<br />
'''260/264 – 339/340 CE: [[Eusebius]] of Caesarea '''<br />
*Followed Origen's teachings<br />
*Agreed with the Trinity-concept, albeit with Jesus on a lower rank than God<br />
*Agreed with forgeries and lies in favour of God and against heresy<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' Almost everything we know about early church history we know '''''from this guy!''''' He's the only source for many pieces of information.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''4th c. CE: [[Codex Sinaiticus]]'''<br />
*Bible manuscript found at the [[Mount Sinai]]<br />
*Contains large portions of the Old Testament, the entire New Testament from Matthew to Revelations, the Shepherd of Hermas and the Barnabas-Epistle<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 350 CE: [[Cyril]] of Jerusalem published his own canon '''<br />
*as part of his 23 [[catechetical lectures]]<br />
*First official canon of a high-ranking church leader<br />
*Insisted that only books from his list may be read, even in private<br />
*Identical with today's canon without the Apocalypse of John<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' One single man decided!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''363 – 364 CE: [[Synode of Laodicea]]'''<br />
*Ca. 20 – 30 Bishops gathered to constitute an official canon. <br />
*They agreed on Cyril's canon.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''367 CE: [[Athanasius]] the Great, Bishop of Alexandria'''<br />
*Listed the 27 books of the modern New Testament in his [[39th Festal Letter]] thus adding the Apocalypse of John to the canon. <br />
*Ruled that the canon may not be changed anymore.<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' Again one single man decided!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''692 CE: Concilium Quinisextum aka [[2nd Trullan Synode]]'''<br />
*Convoked by Emperor [[Justinian II]] in Trullo<br />
*Upheld the Synode of Laodicea '''and''' Athanasius despite the disagreement about the Apocalypse of John<br />
*Declared the Clement-Epistles as holy and part of the Bible<br />
*Added 8 more books "which it is not appropriate to make public before all, because of the mysteries contained in them"<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1443 CE: [[Council of Florence]]'''<br />
*Upheld Athanasius' list<br />
*finally sealed the 27-books-canon of the New Testament<br />
*Was convoked because the authenticity esp. of the Hebrew-Epistle were doubted when the people of the [[Renaissance]] began to read and think for themselves.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1516 CE: First edition of the [[Textus Receptus]] in Greek'''<br />
*Published by [[Erasmus of Rotterdam]] <br />
*The first edition was fairly flawed<br />
*Many Bible translations are based on the Textus Receptus<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1521 CE: [[Martin Luther]] translated the New Testament into German'''<br />
*Used the 2nd edition of Erasmus' Textus Receptus, Erasmus' Latin translation and the Latin Vulgate<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1523 CE: Luther translated the first part of the Old Testament into German'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1534 CE: Luther finished his translation of the Old Testament'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1545 - 1463 CE: [[Council of Trent]]'''<br />
*Affirmed the Council of Florence<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1604 – 1611 CE: Translation of the [[KJV]]'''<br />
*From now on Jesus speaks English!<br />
<br />
<br />
== Sources ==<br />
<br />
*"The History of the Biblical Canon" by Matt Dillahunty, ACA<br />
<br />
*http://www.wikipedia.org<br />
<br />
[[Category:Bible]] [[Category:History]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=BibleBible2011-06-11T01:52:27Z<p>Daskraut: /* See also */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{wikipedia|color=#E7E7E7;}}<br />
{{Books of the Bible}}<br />
'''''The Bible''''' is the name used by [[Judaism|Jews]] and [[Christian]]s for their differing but overlapping [[canon]]s of [[sacred text]]s. The Bible is believed to be the inspired word of [[God]] by Christians and Jews alike.<br />
<br />
==Composition==<br />
<br />
The Jewish and Christian Bibles are actually collections of what were originally a number of independent books. The overwhelming majority of Christians refer to the Bible as the combination of Hebrew Scripture, known to Christians as the [[Old Testament]] or First Testament; and the [[New Testament]], which describes the life and message of [[Jesus]]. For [[Roman Catholic]]s, the [[Eastern Orthodox]], and some [[protestant]]s, the Deuterocanonical books — various writings important in the Second-Temple period of Judaism (often regarded by many protestants as the (or part of the) Apocrypha) — are considered to be part of the Old Testament and as such part of the Bible, although they are rejected by many protestants and are not in the Hebrew Bible as accepted in modern Judaism. Some books considered deuterocanonical by Orthodox Churches are considered apocryphal by other Orthodox Churches and/or Catholics. For Jews, the term refers only to the Hebrew Bible, also called the Tanakh, which includes the Five Books of [[Moses]] (the [[Torah]]) as well as the books of the Prophets and Writings. Both Christians and Jews regard the Bible as the revealed word of God, with widespread variation on its accuracy, interpretation and legitimacy.<br />
<br />
==Christian perspective==<br />
<br />
[[Fundamentalist]]s believe that the Bible is both inspired and [[inerrant]]. They claim that every word of the Bible is [[Biblical literalism|literally true]], except for the parts which are intentionally written as allegories or [[parable]]s. It is free of contradiction and error. So for example, a Fundamentalist would most likely believe in [[six-day creation]] because he believes in the literal truth of [[Genesis]].<br />
<br />
Liberal Christians take a more open view of the Bible, often believing that it is "inspired by God" but not inerrant. They may believe that, while the Bible is a good spiritual guide, it is not necessarily meant to be taken literally.<br />
<br />
==Atheist perspective==<br />
<br />
Atheists regard the Bible as just a period piece of literature. Its authors may have been sincere when they wrote it, but they were nomadic sheep herders with a narrow perspective on the world. In that sense it is little different than any other ancient text such as ''[[The Odyssey]]'': an interesting perspective on the mindset of early cultures, but of questionable accuracy, especially those passages that refer to [[supernatural]] events.<br />
<br />
The Bible was also written well over a thousand years before the discovery of [[science]], which means that the Bible is nearly irrelevant to any scientific discussion. Not only is the literal story of Genesis completely at odds with modern [[cosmology]], but there are many other scientific errors in the Bible. For instance, there is the [[Biblical value of pi]] and the assertion that [[hares chew their cud]].<br />
<br />
==Contradictions within the Bible==<br />
<br />
The first two chapters of Genesis contradict each other on the creation of man.<br />
Gen 1:26 Man was created on the sixth day. Notice the first 5 days god was busy creating animals and plants.<br />
Gen 2:4-7 Man was created right from the start. <br />
<br />
==Additional perspectives==<br />
<br />
There is an excellent resource available at [[The Skeptic's Annotated Bible]].<br />
<br />
<br />
==Unsuitable reading==<br />
<br />
The Bible contains passages that many people would consider<br />
inappropriate for children. The [[Skeptic's Annotated Bible]] has<br />
topical summaries.<br />
<br />
*[http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html Cruelty and Violence in the Bible]<br />
*[http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/inj/long.html Injustice in the Bible] <br />
*[http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/int/long.html Intolerance in the Bible]<br />
*[http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/fv/long.html Bad Family values]<br />
*[http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/women/long.html Bad treatment of women]r<br />
*[http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/sex/long.htm Sex in the Bible]<br />
*[http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/lang/long.html Bad Language in the Bible] <br />
*[http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/gay/long.htm Depiction of Homosexuality in the Bible]<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
* [[History of the Biblical canon]]<br />
* [[The Brick Testament]]<br />
* [[Fun facts about the Bible]]<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://www.biblegateway.com/ An excellent online Bible, searchable in many languages]<br />
*[http://www.religioustolerance.org/inerran5.htm Biblical inerrancy (freedom of error) as understood by conservative & liberal Protestants]<br />
*[http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/ The Skeptic's Annotated Bible]<br />
*[http://freespace.virgin.net/graham.lawrence/ The Fallible Gospels]<br />
*[http://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-versions/ Bible Study Tools, learn the history of different bible versions and compare verses]<br />
<br />
{{Christianity}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Religious mythology]]<br />
[[Category:Bible]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Biblical_canonBiblical canon2011-06-11T01:52:10Z<p>Daskraut: Biblical canon moved to History of the Biblical canon: better name i guess</p>
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<div>#REDIRECT [[History of the Biblical canon]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=History_of_the_Biblical_canonHistory of the Biblical canon2011-06-11T01:52:10Z<p>Daskraut: Biblical canon moved to History of the Biblical canon: better name i guess</p>
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<div>{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=THIS ARTICLE NEEDS TO BE REVIEWED, CHECKED, DOUBLE-CHECKED AND CHECKED AGAIN!!!}}<br />
<br />
'''13.75 ± 0.11 x 10^9 [[BCE]]: [[Big Bang]]'''<br />
<br />
The [[universe]] changd it's shape from [[singularity]] to... well... universe. <br />
Or maybe [[God]] farted. Who knows?<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200,000 BCE: First structures in France and Japan'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''50,000 BCE: [[Homo Sapiens]] reached full behavioural modernity'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''12,500 – 9,500 BCE: [[Natufian Culture]]'''<br />
*Early culture in the [[middle east]]<br />
*Located where we find Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan and Israel today<br />
*Agriculture and the domestication of dogs<br />
<br />
<br />
'''10.23.4004 BCE 09:00 am: [[God]] created the heavens and the earth'''<br />
*Date determined by [[James Ussher]] by adding up dates from the [[KJV]], but we can't be particularly sure. Nobody saw him do it and many Christian scholars' studies produce different results. <br />
*I guess God did a pretty good job but I think we all agree that banishing [[Lucifer]] to earth instead of hitting DEL was kinda stupid, ey?<br />
<br />
<br />
'''2,349 BCE: The Great [[Flood]]'''<br />
*God flushed our world down the toilet and tried again<br />
*Year determined by James Ussher<br />
<br />
<br />
'''33rd c. BCE: Earliest known writings'''<br />
*Found in [[Harappa]] in the [[Indus]]-valley in Pakistan<br />
<br />
<br />
'''30th c. BCE: [[Sumerian]] [[cuneiform]] script'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''27th c. BCE: First [[Egypt]]ian alphabet'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1,491 BCE: [[Israel]] GTFO Egypt'''<br />
*Year determined by James Ussher<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1,312 BCE: God revealed the [[Torah]] to [[Moses]]'''<br />
*We don't know, which language he used and what script Moses used to write it down. Most scripts were developed later:<br />
<br />
<br />
'''11th. c. BCE: Phoenician script'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''10th c. BCE: Cyrillic script'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''9th. c. BCE: Aramaic and Greek script'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''7th c. BCE: Latin alphabet'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''622 BCE: [[Hilkiah]] found the Torah'''<br />
<br />
Hilkiah was the high priest back then, see 2. Kings 22. We don't know, if he found the whole thing or just parts of it and we don't know the language and script of the copy he found.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''4th c. BCE: Torah (Law) and [[Nevi'im]] (Prophets) were canonized'''<br />
*Basically what was read by the priests.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''3rd c. BCE: [[Hebrew]] script'''<br />
<br />
Finally. Well, all of the above writings could not possibly have been written in Hebrew.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''250 BCE – 40 CE: [[Dead Sea Scrolls]]'''<br />
*Collection of 972 texts<br />
*Some biblical, some not<br />
<br />
<br />
'''250 BCE – 100 CE: [[Septuagint]]'''<br />
*First "official" translation of the Tanach into Greek<br />
<br />
<br />
'''12.25.04 BCE: [[Christmas]]'''<br />
*We finally get to worship Satan Claus and his X-Mas Pixies!<br />
*Year determined by James Ussher<br />
<br />
<br />
'''26 – 36 CE: Pontius Pilatus aka [[Pilate]] was governor of [[Judea]]'''<br />
*[[Judas]] snitched on Jesus for 30 measly bucks (cheap bastard!)<br />
*Pilate crucified him<br />
*[[Paul]] met his ghost 1 – 3 years later, converted and started one of the most successful [[sect]]s ever.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''30 – 60 CE: Lost Passion'''<br />
*We don't have any original copies of this hypothetical document.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''40 – 80 CE: [[Q document]] aka Q source'''<br />
*Hypothetical collection of sayings attributed to Jesus<br />
*No existing originals<br />
<br />
<br />
'''48 – 58 CE: Paul's [[Epistle]]s'''<br />
*Do we have original copies?<br />
<br />
<br />
'''48 – 120 CE: Earliest Christian writings'''<br />
*Again: We don't have copies!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''50 – 90 CE: [[Signs-Gospel]]'''<br />
*Again: No copies. <br />
*The Signs-Gospel is the hypothetical source of the [[Gospel of John]] which focuses on "demonstrating" the godliness of Jesus.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''50 – 140 CE: [[Gospel of Thomas]]'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''65 – 120 CE: [[Gospel]]s'''<br />
*Christians like to date the Gospels around 35 CE to lend prophetic character to the hints of the destruction of the temple. <br />
*We don't know the authors for sure.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Image:Fragment.jpg|thumb|right|First known fragment dated ca. 125 CE]]<br />
<br />
'''ca. 125 CE: Oldest known fragment of any Christian writing'''<br />
*Nope, there are no older known copies!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''350 CE: Earliest complete copies of Christian writings'''<br />
*And they are copies of copies of copies of oral tradition. <br />
*And they aren't autographed.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''50 – 97 CE: [[Clemens Romanus]]'''<br />
*Important dude in the early church. <br />
*We have many of his letters. <br />
*He never quoted any gospel, not even Mark. He would have known about the Gospel of Mark if Mark had written it for a Roman audience! <br />
*He frequently referred to Paul's Epistles and considered them to be wise advice (but not divinely inspired!)<br />
*Clemens' Jesus-quotes can't be found in any known source.<br />
*Clemens' writings were considered divinely inspired by the early church.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''80 – 180 CE: [[Didache]]'''<br />
*Exact dating is impossible, probably 110 CE.<br />
*Authors are unknown<br />
*One of the oldest church regulations<br />
*Contains the Gospel of Matthew completely and refers to it as "'''''The''''' Gospel".<br />
*It doesn't quote any other Gospels.<br />
*Considered canonical by [[Clement of Alexandria]] and others<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 100 CE: [[Synode of Jawne]]'''<br />
*[[Ketuvim]] (Writings) were canonized<br />
*The [[Tanach]] (Jewish "Bible") was officially finished.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 130 CE: [[Papias]], [[Bishop]] of [[Hierapolis]]'''<br />
*Wrote 5 books "Interpretations of the Sayings of the Lord", a collection of orally conveyed quotes of the apostles.<br />
*No original copies, fragments passed on by [[Eusebius of Caesarea]].<br />
*Interested in written text, but shows that oral tradition was way more important back then.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 130 CE: [[Polycarp]], Bishop of [[Smyrna]]'''<br />
*Wrote a letter containing ca. 100 quotes attributed to Jesus. Some of them match quotes from the Gospels, some match quotes from the Epistles. <br />
*Polycarp doesn't name sources.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 135 CE: [[Basileides]], a [[Gnostic]] from [[Alexandria]],'''<br />
*Wrote the "[[Exegetica]]", a Bible commentary in 24 volumes considered heretical. <br />
*His sources are unknown. <br />
*To this point "Jesus" or "Christ" was the only named authority. Now the doctrinal debates began and church leadership became a necessity to dictate and preserve official church [[doctrine]]. <br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 140 CE: The [[Shepherd of Hermas]]'''<br />
*Very popular together with the [[Barnabas-Epistle]]<br />
*Part of the [[Codex Sinaiticus]]<br />
*No quotes from any other texts of the [[New Testament]]<br />
*Refers to other Jewish Texts (Eldad and Medad)<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 144 CE: [[Marcion]] proposes a [[reformation]] of Christianity'''<br />
*He called the [[Old Testament]] contradictory, barbaric and untrue (and he's right about that!), only considered Paul's writings as inspired. <br />
*Gnostic beliefs: Jesus wasn't human, there is no [[hell]]<br />
*Compiled the first Biblical canon: Gospel of Luke (w/o [[Nativity]] story and references to the Old Testament) and 10 Epistles.<br />
*Was excommunicated and founded his own church, but his prefaces to the biblical texts made it into the Latin [[Vulgate]]<br />
<br />
<br />
'''157 CE: [[Montanism]]'''<br />
*Comparable to today's [[Pentecostal]] movement<br />
*[[Speaking in tongues]] and personal [[revelation]] were important<br />
*Laymen's opinions were regarded as important as clerical opinions<br />
*Expectation of the [[end times]]<br />
<br />
<br />
'''160 – 180 CE: [[Melitio]], Bishop of [[Sardis]]'''<br />
*Asked the Hebrews in Palestine, which writings are to be considered holy. <br />
*Accepted their opinion without critical questioning and the [[Old Testament]] came into being. <br />
*Also accepted apocryphal books (1st and 2nd [[Maccabees]], [[Book of Wisdom]] and [[Jesus Sirach]])<br />
<br />
Around this time the church began to send out [[priests]] to examine churches' doctrines after travellers reported doctrinal differences. The larger, stronger and richer churches dictated their doctrine on the smaller ones.<br />
<br />
Despite Marcion's canon, the heresy of the Montanism and doctrinal disputes there still was no official attempt to create an orthodox canon.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''150 – 200 CE: [[Acts of Paul]]'''<br />
*Apocryphal book, written to honour Paul<br />
*The priest who wrote it was ousted for falsification<br />
*Despite that his work stayed popular in the churches and is part of the [[Armenian Bible]] to this day.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''172 CE: [[Tatian]] founded a church in Syria'''<br />
*after he was converted and trained by [[Justin the Martyr]]<br />
*Banned wine, meat and marriage<br />
*Compiled the Syrian canon: [[Diatessaron]], which is an edited and harmonized version of the 4 Gospels, several Epistles of Paul (which ones is unknown) and Acts. <br />
<br />
<br />
'''177 CE: [[Athenagoras]] invented the [[Trinity]]'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Serapion]] visited the churches in [[Asia]]'''<br />
<br />
and was confronted with disputes, whether the [[Gospel of Peter]] can or can't be read in churches. As quickly as he approved of it, he declared it heretical after reading it. <br />
<br />
'''NB:''' The Gospel of Peter also contains the [[Apocalypse of Peter]], an extremely graphic depiction of hell that still is considered divinely inspired. Poe couldn't have done it any better. [[Dante Alighieri]] did (and I recommend reading [[Dante's Inferno]] if you're into horror stories! Really, good snuff!).<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Dionysus]]'''<br />
*Demanded, that his letters and the "writings of the Lord" are revised, thus questioning the veracity of all Scripture.<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' Even Paul points out the numerous forgeries!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Talmud]] was canonized'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Irenaeus]], Bishop of Lugdunum (Lyon, France)'''<br />
*Quoted almost every book in the modern New Testament which points to an inofficial canon.<br />
*He stated that there have to be exactly 4 Gospels, since there are 4 directions, 4 winds, 4 blah and 4 blib.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''Basic rules of determining the veracity of a text:'''<br />
*If it fits your doctrine, it's inspired.<br />
*If it doesn't, it isn't.<br />
*Might makes right. God will surely make sure that the right dudes are in power. (What about the girls?)<br />
*Literary history and scholarship don't count. Which isn't surprising in the light of people relying on oral tradition.<br />
*I just wrote oral<br />
*You just giggled<br />
<br />
<br />
'''150 – 215 CE: Titus Flavius Clemens aka [[Clement]] of Alexandria'''<br />
*First serious scholar among the church fathers<br />
*Quoted written sources ca. 8,000 times<br />
*2,500 of the quotes were not Christian or Jewish<br />
*Agreed with Tatian's Diatessaron but also accepts the Gnostic [[Egyptian Gospel]], the [[Hebrew Gospel]], the [[Traditions of Matthias]], the Shepherd of Hermas, the Barnabas-Epistle, the Apocalypse of Peter, the Didache and oral tradition.<br />
*You just realized that i wrote oral again.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''The "secret [[Gospel of Mark]]"'''<br />
<br />
Clement mentioned 3 different versions of the Gospel of Mark in a letter to Theodoros:<br />
*A short version written in Rome, based on the teachings of Peter<br />
*A longer, more spiritual version written in Alexandria after Peter's death<br />
*A "secret" version, 2 fragments of which are preserved together with the letter<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' Many writings were falsified, hidden or disposed of to preserve doctrine!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 195 CE: Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullianus aka [[Tertullian]]'''<br />
*Compiled a commented list of books he accepted including, among others, the traditional inofficial canon and the Shepherd of Hermas.<br />
*Pissed off by the envy and laxity of the Roman clergy he converted to Montanism.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''203 CE: Origenes Adamantius aka [[Origen]] '''<br />
*Became head of the Christian Seminar of Alexandria at the age of 18<br />
*Performed the first scientific examination of Christianity<br />
<br />
In 231 CE he fled to [[Caesarea]] after a clash with Bishop [[Demetrius]]. He founded a new school there that soon outshone the school in Alexandria. He converted [[Ambrosius]] from gnostic [[Valentianism]] to [[Orthodoxy]]. Ambrosius became his financier.<br />
He agreed with Tatian's Diatessaron and calls it the only reliable piece of work criticized by no one (only talking about non-heretics, which indicates that non-heretics, too, argued about the Gospels). He also accepted the Gospel of Peter, the Shepherd of Hermas, Didache, the Barnabas-Epistle as holy scriptures but he doubted the veracity of the 2nd and 3rd Epistles of John, the 2nd Epistle of Paul and the Hebrew Epistle.<br />
<br />
Origen castrated himself which was a capital crime in Rome (and pretty stupid, too).<br />
<br />
<br />
'''Late 2nd to 4th c. CE: [[Canon Muratori]]'''<br />
*Fragment of a commented Latin list of writings including the Apocalypse of John, the Apocalypse of Peter and the Book of Wisdom<br />
*Calls the Shepherd of Hermas commendable but not inspired<br />
*Doesn't include Hebrews, Jacob, 1. and 2. Peter and 3. John<br />
*Contradicts Marcionism, Montanism, Valentianism and other gnostic flavours<br />
*Indicates an existing canon as soon as the 2nd century CE<br />
<br />
<br />
'''260/264 – 339/340 CE: [[Eusebius]] of Caesarea '''<br />
*Followed Origen's teachings<br />
*Agreed with the Trinity-concept, albeit with Jesus on a lower rank than God<br />
*Agreed with forgeries and lies in favour of God and against heresy<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' Almost everything we know about early church history we know '''''from this guy!''''' He's the only source for many pieces of information.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''4th c. CE: [[Codex Sinaiticus]]'''<br />
*Bible manuscript found at the [[Mount Sinai]]<br />
*Contains large portions of the Old Testament, the entire New Testament from Matthew to Revelations, the Shepherd of Hermas and the Barnabas-Epistle<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 350 CE: [[Cyril]] of Jerusalem published his own canon '''<br />
*as part of his 23 [[catechetical lectures]]<br />
*First official canon of a high-ranking church leader<br />
*Insisted that only books from his list may be read, even in private<br />
*Identical with today's canon without the Apocalypse of John<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' One single man decided!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''363 – 364 CE: [[Synode of Laodicea]]'''<br />
*Ca. 20 – 30 Bishops gathered to constitute an official canon. <br />
*They agreed on Cyril's canon.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''367 CE: [[Athanasius]] the Great, Bishop of Alexandria'''<br />
*Listed the 27 books of the modern New Testament in his [[39th Festal Letter]] thus adding the Apocalypse of John to the canon. <br />
*Ruled that the canon may not be changed anymore.<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' Again one single man decided!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''692 CE: Concilium Quinisextum aka [[2nd Trullan Synode]]'''<br />
*Convoked by Emperor [[Justinian II]] in Trullo<br />
*Upheld the Synode of Laodicea '''and''' Athanasius despite the disagreement about the Apocalypse of John<br />
*Declared the Clement-Epistles as holy and part of the Bible<br />
*Added 8 more books "which it is not appropriate to make public before all, because of the mysteries contained in them"<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1443 CE: [[Council of Florence]]'''<br />
*Upheld Athanasius' list<br />
*finally sealed the 27-books-canon of the New Testament<br />
*Was convoked because the authenticity esp. of the Hebrew-Epistle were doubted when the people of the [[Renaissance]] began to read and think for themselves.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1516 CE: First edition of the [[Textus Receptus]] in Greek'''<br />
*Published by [[Erasmus of Rotterdam]] <br />
*The first edition was fairly flawed<br />
*Many Bible translations are based on the Textus Receptus<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1521 CE: [[Martin Luther]] translated the New Testament into German'''<br />
*Used the 2nd edition of Erasmus' Textus Receptus, Erasmus' Latin translation and the Latin Vulgate<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1523 CE: Luther translated the first part of the Old Testament into German'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1534 CE: Luther finished his translation of the Old Testament'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1545 - 1463 CE: [[Council of Trent]]'''<br />
*Affirmed the Council of Florence<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1604 – 1611 CE: Translation of the [[KJV]]'''<br />
*From now on Jesus speaks English!<br />
<br />
<br />
== Sources ==<br />
<br />
*"The History of the Biblical Canon" by Matt Dillahunty, ACA<br />
<br />
*http://www.wikipedia.org<br />
<br />
[[Category:Bible]] [[Category:History]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=History_of_the_Biblical_canonHistory of the Biblical canon2011-06-11T01:49:15Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=THIS ARTICLE NEEDS TO BE REVIEWED, CHECKED, DOUBLE-CHECKED AND CHECKED AGAIN!!!}}<br />
<br />
'''13.75 ± 0.11 x 10^9 [[BCE]]: [[Big Bang]]'''<br />
<br />
The [[universe]] changd it's shape from [[singularity]] to... well... universe. <br />
Or maybe [[God]] farted. Who knows?<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200,000 BCE: First structures in France and Japan'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''50,000 BCE: [[Homo Sapiens]] reached full behavioural modernity'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''12,500 – 9,500 BCE: [[Natufian Culture]]'''<br />
*Early culture in the [[middle east]]<br />
*Located where we find Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan and Israel today<br />
*Agriculture and the domestication of dogs<br />
<br />
<br />
'''10.23.4004 BCE 09:00 am: [[God]] created the heavens and the earth'''<br />
*Date determined by [[James Ussher]] by adding up dates from the [[KJV]], but we can't be particularly sure. Nobody saw him do it and many Christian scholars' studies produce different results. <br />
*I guess God did a pretty good job but I think we all agree that banishing [[Lucifer]] to earth instead of hitting DEL was kinda stupid, ey?<br />
<br />
<br />
'''2,349 BCE: The Great [[Flood]]'''<br />
*God flushed our world down the toilet and tried again<br />
*Year determined by James Ussher<br />
<br />
<br />
'''33rd c. BCE: Earliest known writings'''<br />
*Found in [[Harappa]] in the [[Indus]]-valley in Pakistan<br />
<br />
<br />
'''30th c. BCE: [[Sumerian]] [[cuneiform]] script'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''27th c. BCE: First [[Egypt]]ian alphabet'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1,491 BCE: [[Israel]] GTFO Egypt'''<br />
*Year determined by James Ussher<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1,312 BCE: God revealed the [[Torah]] to [[Moses]]'''<br />
*We don't know, which language he used and what script Moses used to write it down. Most scripts were developed later:<br />
<br />
<br />
'''11th. c. BCE: Phoenician script'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''10th c. BCE: Cyrillic script'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''9th. c. BCE: Aramaic and Greek script'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''7th c. BCE: Latin alphabet'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''622 BCE: [[Hilkiah]] found the Torah'''<br />
<br />
Hilkiah was the high priest back then, see 2. Kings 22. We don't know, if he found the whole thing or just parts of it and we don't know the language and script of the copy he found.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''4th c. BCE: Torah (Law) and [[Nevi'im]] (Prophets) were canonized'''<br />
*Basically what was read by the priests.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''3rd c. BCE: [[Hebrew]] script'''<br />
<br />
Finally. Well, all of the above writings could not possibly have been written in Hebrew.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''250 BCE – 40 CE: [[Dead Sea Scrolls]]'''<br />
*Collection of 972 texts<br />
*Some biblical, some not<br />
<br />
<br />
'''250 BCE – 100 CE: [[Septuagint]]'''<br />
*First "official" translation of the Tanach into Greek<br />
<br />
<br />
'''12.25.04 BCE: [[Christmas]]'''<br />
*We finally get to worship Satan Claus and his X-Mas Pixies!<br />
*Year determined by James Ussher<br />
<br />
<br />
'''26 – 36 CE: Pontius Pilatus aka [[Pilate]] was governor of [[Judea]]'''<br />
*[[Judas]] snitched on Jesus for 30 measly bucks (cheap bastard!)<br />
*Pilate crucified him<br />
*[[Paul]] met his ghost 1 – 3 years later, converted and started one of the most successful [[sect]]s ever.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''30 – 60 CE: Lost Passion'''<br />
*We don't have any original copies of this hypothetical document.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''40 – 80 CE: [[Q document]] aka Q source'''<br />
*Hypothetical collection of sayings attributed to Jesus<br />
*No existing originals<br />
<br />
<br />
'''48 – 58 CE: Paul's [[Epistle]]s'''<br />
*Do we have original copies?<br />
<br />
<br />
'''48 – 120 CE: Earliest Christian writings'''<br />
*Again: We don't have copies!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''50 – 90 CE: [[Signs-Gospel]]'''<br />
*Again: No copies. <br />
*The Signs-Gospel is the hypothetical source of the [[Gospel of John]] which focuses on "demonstrating" the godliness of Jesus.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''50 – 140 CE: [[Gospel of Thomas]]'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''65 – 120 CE: [[Gospel]]s'''<br />
*Christians like to date the Gospels around 35 CE to lend prophetic character to the hints of the destruction of the temple. <br />
*We don't know the authors for sure.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Image:Fragment.jpg|thumb|right|First known fragment dated ca. 125 CE]]<br />
<br />
'''ca. 125 CE: Oldest known fragment of any Christian writing'''<br />
*Nope, there are no older known copies!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''350 CE: Earliest complete copies of Christian writings'''<br />
*And they are copies of copies of copies of oral tradition. <br />
*And they aren't autographed.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''50 – 97 CE: [[Clemens Romanus]]'''<br />
*Important dude in the early church. <br />
*We have many of his letters. <br />
*He never quoted any gospel, not even Mark. He would have known about the Gospel of Mark if Mark had written it for a Roman audience! <br />
*He frequently referred to Paul's Epistles and considered them to be wise advice (but not divinely inspired!)<br />
*Clemens' Jesus-quotes can't be found in any known source.<br />
*Clemens' writings were considered divinely inspired by the early church.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''80 – 180 CE: [[Didache]]'''<br />
*Exact dating is impossible, probably 110 CE.<br />
*Authors are unknown<br />
*One of the oldest church regulations<br />
*Contains the Gospel of Matthew completely and refers to it as "'''''The''''' Gospel".<br />
*It doesn't quote any other Gospels.<br />
*Considered canonical by [[Clement of Alexandria]] and others<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 100 CE: [[Synode of Jawne]]'''<br />
*[[Ketuvim]] (Writings) were canonized<br />
*The [[Tanach]] (Jewish "Bible") was officially finished.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 130 CE: [[Papias]], [[Bishop]] of [[Hierapolis]]'''<br />
*Wrote 5 books "Interpretations of the Sayings of the Lord", a collection of orally conveyed quotes of the apostles.<br />
*No original copies, fragments passed on by [[Eusebius of Caesarea]].<br />
*Interested in written text, but shows that oral tradition was way more important back then.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 130 CE: [[Polycarp]], Bishop of [[Smyrna]]'''<br />
*Wrote a letter containing ca. 100 quotes attributed to Jesus. Some of them match quotes from the Gospels, some match quotes from the Epistles. <br />
*Polycarp doesn't name sources.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 135 CE: [[Basileides]], a [[Gnostic]] from [[Alexandria]],'''<br />
*Wrote the "[[Exegetica]]", a Bible commentary in 24 volumes considered heretical. <br />
*His sources are unknown. <br />
*To this point "Jesus" or "Christ" was the only named authority. Now the doctrinal debates began and church leadership became a necessity to dictate and preserve official church [[doctrine]]. <br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 140 CE: The [[Shepherd of Hermas]]'''<br />
*Very popular together with the [[Barnabas-Epistle]]<br />
*Part of the [[Codex Sinaiticus]]<br />
*No quotes from any other texts of the [[New Testament]]<br />
*Refers to other Jewish Texts (Eldad and Medad)<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 144 CE: [[Marcion]] proposes a [[reformation]] of Christianity'''<br />
*He called the [[Old Testament]] contradictory, barbaric and untrue (and he's right about that!), only considered Paul's writings as inspired. <br />
*Gnostic beliefs: Jesus wasn't human, there is no [[hell]]<br />
*Compiled the first Biblical canon: Gospel of Luke (w/o [[Nativity]] story and references to the Old Testament) and 10 Epistles.<br />
*Was excommunicated and founded his own church, but his prefaces to the biblical texts made it into the Latin [[Vulgate]]<br />
<br />
<br />
'''157 CE: [[Montanism]]'''<br />
*Comparable to today's [[Pentecostal]] movement<br />
*[[Speaking in tongues]] and personal [[revelation]] were important<br />
*Laymen's opinions were regarded as important as clerical opinions<br />
*Expectation of the [[end times]]<br />
<br />
<br />
'''160 – 180 CE: [[Melitio]], Bishop of [[Sardis]]'''<br />
*Asked the Hebrews in Palestine, which writings are to be considered holy. <br />
*Accepted their opinion without critical questioning and the [[Old Testament]] came into being. <br />
*Also accepted apocryphal books (1st and 2nd [[Maccabees]], [[Book of Wisdom]] and [[Jesus Sirach]])<br />
<br />
Around this time the church began to send out [[priests]] to examine churches' doctrines after travellers reported doctrinal differences. The larger, stronger and richer churches dictated their doctrine on the smaller ones.<br />
<br />
Despite Marcion's canon, the heresy of the Montanism and doctrinal disputes there still was no official attempt to create an orthodox canon.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''150 – 200 CE: [[Acts of Paul]]'''<br />
*Apocryphal book, written to honour Paul<br />
*The priest who wrote it was ousted for falsification<br />
*Despite that his work stayed popular in the churches and is part of the [[Armenian Bible]] to this day.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''172 CE: [[Tatian]] founded a church in Syria'''<br />
*after he was converted and trained by [[Justin the Martyr]]<br />
*Banned wine, meat and marriage<br />
*Compiled the Syrian canon: [[Diatessaron]], which is an edited and harmonized version of the 4 Gospels, several Epistles of Paul (which ones is unknown) and Acts. <br />
<br />
<br />
'''177 CE: [[Athenagoras]] invented the [[Trinity]]'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Serapion]] visited the churches in [[Asia]]'''<br />
<br />
and was confronted with disputes, whether the [[Gospel of Peter]] can or can't be read in churches. As quickly as he approved of it, he declared it heretical after reading it. <br />
<br />
'''NB:''' The Gospel of Peter also contains the [[Apocalypse of Peter]], an extremely graphic depiction of hell that still is considered divinely inspired. Poe couldn't have done it any better. [[Dante Alighieri]] did (and I recommend reading [[Dante's Inferno]] if you're into horror stories! Really, good snuff!).<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Dionysus]]'''<br />
*Demanded, that his letters and the "writings of the Lord" are revised, thus questioning the veracity of all Scripture.<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' Even Paul points out the numerous forgeries!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Talmud]] was canonized'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Irenaeus]], Bishop of Lugdunum (Lyon, France)'''<br />
*Quoted almost every book in the modern New Testament which points to an inofficial canon.<br />
*He stated that there have to be exactly 4 Gospels, since there are 4 directions, 4 winds, 4 blah and 4 blib.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''Basic rules of determining the veracity of a text:'''<br />
*If it fits your doctrine, it's inspired.<br />
*If it doesn't, it isn't.<br />
*Might makes right. God will surely make sure that the right dudes are in power. (What about the girls?)<br />
*Literary history and scholarship don't count. Which isn't surprising in the light of people relying on oral tradition.<br />
*I just wrote oral<br />
*You just giggled<br />
<br />
<br />
'''150 – 215 CE: Titus Flavius Clemens aka [[Clement]] of Alexandria'''<br />
*First serious scholar among the church fathers<br />
*Quoted written sources ca. 8,000 times<br />
*2,500 of the quotes were not Christian or Jewish<br />
*Agreed with Tatian's Diatessaron but also accepts the Gnostic [[Egyptian Gospel]], the [[Hebrew Gospel]], the [[Traditions of Matthias]], the Shepherd of Hermas, the Barnabas-Epistle, the Apocalypse of Peter, the Didache and oral tradition.<br />
*You just realized that i wrote oral again.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''The "secret [[Gospel of Mark]]"'''<br />
<br />
Clement mentioned 3 different versions of the Gospel of Mark in a letter to Theodoros:<br />
*A short version written in Rome, based on the teachings of Peter<br />
*A longer, more spiritual version written in Alexandria after Peter's death<br />
*A "secret" version, 2 fragments of which are preserved together with the letter<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' Many writings were falsified, hidden or disposed of to preserve doctrine!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 195 CE: Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullianus aka [[Tertullian]]'''<br />
*Compiled a commented list of books he accepted including, among others, the traditional inofficial canon and the Shepherd of Hermas.<br />
*Pissed off by the envy and laxity of the Roman clergy he converted to Montanism.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''203 CE: Origenes Adamantius aka [[Origen]] '''<br />
*Became head of the Christian Seminar of Alexandria at the age of 18<br />
*Performed the first scientific examination of Christianity<br />
<br />
In 231 CE he fled to [[Caesarea]] after a clash with Bishop [[Demetrius]]. He founded a new school there that soon outshone the school in Alexandria. He converted [[Ambrosius]] from gnostic [[Valentianism]] to [[Orthodoxy]]. Ambrosius became his financier.<br />
He agreed with Tatian's Diatessaron and calls it the only reliable piece of work criticized by no one (only talking about non-heretics, which indicates that non-heretics, too, argued about the Gospels). He also accepted the Gospel of Peter, the Shepherd of Hermas, Didache, the Barnabas-Epistle as holy scriptures but he doubted the veracity of the 2nd and 3rd Epistles of John, the 2nd Epistle of Paul and the Hebrew Epistle.<br />
<br />
Origen castrated himself which was a capital crime in Rome (and pretty stupid, too).<br />
<br />
<br />
'''Late 2nd to 4th c. CE: [[Canon Muratori]]'''<br />
*Fragment of a commented Latin list of writings including the Apocalypse of John, the Apocalypse of Peter and the Book of Wisdom<br />
*Calls the Shepherd of Hermas commendable but not inspired<br />
*Doesn't include Hebrews, Jacob, 1. and 2. Peter and 3. John<br />
*Contradicts Marcionism, Montanism, Valentianism and other gnostic flavours<br />
*Indicates an existing canon as soon as the 2nd century CE<br />
<br />
<br />
'''260/264 – 339/340 CE: [[Eusebius]] of Caesarea '''<br />
*Followed Origen's teachings<br />
*Agreed with the Trinity-concept, albeit with Jesus on a lower rank than God<br />
*Agreed with forgeries and lies in favour of God and against heresy<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' Almost everything we know about early church history we know '''''from this guy!''''' He's the only source for many pieces of information.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''4th c. CE: [[Codex Sinaiticus]]'''<br />
*Bible manuscript found at the [[Mount Sinai]]<br />
*Contains large portions of the Old Testament, the entire New Testament from Matthew to Revelations, the Shepherd of Hermas and the Barnabas-Epistle<br />
<br />
<br />
'''ca. 350 CE: [[Cyril]] of Jerusalem published his own canon '''<br />
*as part of his 23 [[catechetical lectures]]<br />
*First official canon of a high-ranking church leader<br />
*Insisted that only books from his list may be read, even in private<br />
*Identical with today's canon without the Apocalypse of John<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' One single man decided!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''363 – 364 CE: [[Synode of Laodicea]]'''<br />
*Ca. 20 – 30 Bishops gathered to constitute an official canon. <br />
*They agreed on Cyril's canon.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''367 CE: [[Athanasius]] the Great, Bishop of Alexandria'''<br />
*Listed the 27 books of the modern New Testament in his [[39th Festal Letter]] thus adding the Apocalypse of John to the canon. <br />
*Ruled that the canon may not be changed anymore.<br />
<br />
'''NB:''' Again one single man decided!<br />
<br />
<br />
'''692 CE: Concilium Quinisextum aka [[2nd Trullan Synode]]'''<br />
*Convoked by Emperor [[Justinian II]] in Trullo<br />
*Upheld the Synode of Laodicea '''and''' Athanasius despite the disagreement about the Apocalypse of John<br />
*Declared the Clement-Epistles as holy and part of the Bible<br />
*Added 8 more books "which it is not appropriate to make public before all, because of the mysteries contained in them"<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1443 CE: [[Council of Florence]]'''<br />
*Upheld Athanasius' list<br />
*finally sealed the 27-books-canon of the New Testament<br />
*Was convoked because the authenticity esp. of the Hebrew-Epistle were doubted when the people of the [[Renaissance]] began to read and think for themselves.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1516 CE: First edition of the [[Textus Receptus]] in Greek'''<br />
*Published by [[Erasmus of Rotterdam]] <br />
*The first edition was fairly flawed<br />
*Many Bible translations are based on the Textus Receptus<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1521 CE: [[Martin Luther]] translated the New Testament into German'''<br />
*Used the 2nd edition of Erasmus' Textus Receptus, Erasmus' Latin translation and the Latin Vulgate<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1523 CE: Luther translated the first part of the Old Testament into German'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1534 CE: Luther finished his translation of the Old Testament'''<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1545 - 1463 CE: [[Council of Trent]]'''<br />
*Affirmed the Council of Florence<br />
<br />
<br />
'''1604 – 1611 CE: Translation of the [[KJV]]'''<br />
*From now on Jesus speaks English!<br />
<br />
<br />
== Sources ==<br />
<br />
*"The History of the Biblical Canon" by Matt Dillahunty, ACA<br />
<br />
*http://www.wikipedia.org<br />
<br />
[[Category:Bible]] [[Category:History]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=File:Fragment.jpgFile:Fragment.jpg2011-06-11T01:33:33Z<p>Daskraut: First known fragment of the New Testament</p>
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<div>First known fragment of the New Testament</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=History_of_the_Biblical_canonHistory of the Biblical canon2011-06-11T01:30:41Z<p>Daskraut: History of the Biblical canon</p>
<hr />
<div>History of the Biblical Canon<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=THIS ARTICLE NEEDS TO BE REVIEWED, CHECKED, DOUBLE-CHECKED AND CHECKED AGAIN!!!}}<br />
<br />
'''13.75 ± 0.11 x 10^9 [[BCE]]: [[Big Bang]]'''<br />
The [[universe]] changes it's shape from [[singularity]] to... well... universe. <br />
Or maybe [[God]] farted. Who knows?<br />
<br />
'''200,000 BCE: First structures in France and Japan'''<br />
<br />
'''50,000 BCE: [[Homo Sapiens]] reached full behavioural modernity'''<br />
<br />
'''12,500 – 9,500 BCE: [[Natufian Culture]]'''<br />
*Early culture in the [[middle east]]<br />
*Located where we find Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan and Israel today<br />
*Agriculture and the domestication of dogs<br />
<br />
'''10.23.4004 BCE 09:00 am: [[God]] created the heavens and the earth'''<br />
*Date determined by [[James Ussher]] by adding up dates from the [[KJV]], but we can't be particularly sure. Nobody saw him do it and many Christian scholars' studies produce different results. <br />
*I guess God did a pretty good job but I think we all agree that banishing [[Lucifer]] to earth instead of hitting DEL was kinda stupid, ey?<br />
<br />
'''2,349 BCE: The Great [[Flood]]'''<br />
*God flushed our world down the toilet and tried again<br />
*Year determined by James Ussher<br />
<br />
'''33rd c. BCE: Earliest known writings'''<br />
*Found in [[Harappa]] in the [[Indus]]-valley in Pakistan<br />
<br />
'''30th c. BCE: [[Sumerian]] [[cuneiform]] script'''<br />
<br />
'''27th c. BCE: First [[Egypt]]ian alphabet'''<br />
<br />
'''1,491 BCE: [[Israel]] GTFO Egypt'''<br />
*Year determined by James Ussher<br />
<br />
'''1,312 BCE: God revealed the [[Torah]] to [[Moses]]'''<br />
*We don't know, which language he used and what script Moses used to write it down. Most scripts were developed later:<br />
<br />
'''11th. c. BCE: Phoenician script'''<br />
<br />
'''10th c. BCE: Cyrillic script'''<br />
<br />
'''9th. c. BCE: Aramaic and Greek script'''<br />
<br />
'''7th c. BCE: Latin alphabet'''<br />
<br />
'''622 BCE: [[Hilkiah]] found the Torah'''<br />
Hilkiah was the high priest back then, see 2. Kings 22. We don't know, if he found the whole thing or just parts of it and we don't know the language and script of the copy he found.<br />
<br />
'''4th c. BCE: Torah (Law) and [[Nevi'im]] (Prophets) were canonized'''<br />
*Basically what was read by the priests.<br />
<br />
'''3rd c. BCE: [[Hebrew]] script'''<br />
Finally. Well, all of the above writings could not possibly have been written in Hebrew.<br />
<br />
'''250 BCE – 40 CE: [[Dead Sea Scrolls]]'''<br />
*Collection of 972 texts<br />
*Some biblical, some not<br />
<br />
'''250 BCE – 100 CE: [[Septuagint]]'''<br />
*First "official" translation of the Tanach into Greek<br />
<br />
'''12.25.04 BCE: [[Christmas]]'''<br />
*We finally get to worship Satan Claus and his X-Mas Pixies!<br />
*Year determined by James Ussher<br />
<br />
'''26 – 36 CE: Pontius Pilatus aka [[Pilate]] was governor of [[Judea]]'''<br />
*[[Judas]] snitched on Jesus for 30 measly bucks (cheap bastard!)<br />
*Pilate crucified him<br />
*[[Paul]] met his ghost 1 – 3 years later, converted and started one of the most successful [[sect]]s ever.<br />
<br />
'''30 – 60 CE: Lost Passion'''<br />
*We don't have any original copies of this hypothetical document.<br />
<br />
'''40 – 80 CE: [[Q document]] aka Q source'''<br />
*Hypothetical collection of sayings attributed to Jesus<br />
*No existing originals<br />
<br />
'''48 – 58 CE: Paul's [[Epistle]]s'''<br />
*Do we have original copies?<br />
<br />
'''48 – 120 CE: Earliest Christian writings'''<br />
*Again: We don't have copies!<br />
<br />
'''50 – 90 CE: [[Signs-Gospel]]'''<br />
*Again: No copies. <br />
*The Signs-Gospel is the hypothetical source of the [[Gospel of John]] which focuses on "demonstrating" the godliness of Jesus.<br />
<br />
'''50 – 140 CE: [[Gospel of Thomas]]'''<br />
<br />
'''65 – 120 CE: [[Gospel]]s'''<br />
*Christians like to date the Gospels around 35 CE to lend prophetic character to the hints of the destruction of the temple. <br />
*We don't know the authors for sure.<br />
<br />
[[Image:Fragment.jpg]]<br />
<br />
'''ca. 125 CE: Oldest known fragment of any Christian writing'''<br />
*Nope, there are no older known copies!<br />
<br />
'''350 CE: Earliest complete copies of Christian writings'''<br />
*And they are copies of copies of copies of oral tradition. <br />
*And they aren't autographed.<br />
<br />
'''50 – 97 CE: [[Clemens Romanus]]'''<br />
*Important dude in the early church. <br />
*We have many of his letters. <br />
*He never quoted any gospel, not even Mark. He would have known about the Gospel of Mark if Mark had written it for a Roman audience! <br />
*He frequently referred to Paul's Epistles and considered them to be wise advice (but not divinely inspired!)<br />
*Clemens' Jesus-quotes can't be found in any known source.<br />
*Clemens' writings were considered divinely inspired by the early church.<br />
<br />
'''80 – 180 CE: [[Didache]]'''<br />
*Exact dating is impossible, probably 110 CE.<br />
*Authors are unknown<br />
*One of the oldest church regulations<br />
*Contains the Gospel of Matthew completely and refers to it as "'''''The''''' Gospel".<br />
*It doesn't quote any other Gospels.<br />
*Considered canonical by [[Clement of Alexandria]] and others<br />
<br />
'''ca. 100 CE: [[Synode of Jawne]]'''<br />
*[[Ketuvim]] (Writings) were canonized<br />
*The [[Tanach]] (Jewish "Bible") was officially finished.<br />
<br />
'''ca. 130 CE: [[Papias]], [[Bishop]] of [[Hierapolis]]'''<br />
*Wrote 5 books "Interpretations of the Sayings of the Lord", a collection of orally conveyed quotes of the apostles.<br />
*No original copies, fragments passed on by [[Eusebius of Caesarea]].<br />
*Interested in written text, but shows that oral tradition was way more important back then.<br />
<br />
'''ca. 130 CE: [[Polycarp]], Bishop of [[Smyrna]]'''<br />
*Wrote a letter containing ca. 100 quotes attributed to Jesus. Some of them match quotes from the Gospels, some match quotes from the Epistles. <br />
*Polycarp doesn't name sources.<br />
<br />
'''ca. 135 CE: [[Basileides]], a [[Gnostic]] from [[Alexandria]],'''<br />
*Wrote the "[[Exegetica]]", a Bible commentary in 24 volumes considered heretical. <br />
*His sources are unknown. <br />
*To this point "Jesus" or "Christ" was the only named authority. Now the doctrinal debates began and church leadership became a necessity to dictate and preserve official church [[doctrine]]. <br />
<br />
'''ca. 140 CE: The [[Shepherd of Hermas]]'''<br />
*Very popular together with the [[Barnabas-Epistle]]<br />
*Part of the [[Codex Sinaiticus]]<br />
*No quotes from any other texts of the [[New Testament]]<br />
*Refers to other Jewish Texts (Eldad and Medad)<br />
<br />
'''ca. 144 CE: [[Marcion]] proposes a [[reformation]] of Christianity'''<br />
*He called the [[Old Testament]] contradictory, barbaric and untrue (and he's right about that!), only considered Paul's writings as inspired. <br />
*Gnostic beliefs: Jesus wasn't human, there is no [[hell]]<br />
*Compiled the first Biblical canon: Gospel of Luke (w/o [[Nativity]] story and references to the Old Testament) and 10 Epistles.<br />
*Was excommunicated and founded his own church, but his prefaces to the biblical texts made it into the Latin [[Vulgate]]<br />
<br />
'''157 CE: [[Montanism]]'''<br />
*Comparable to today's [[Pentecostal]] movement<br />
*[[Speaking in tongues]] and personal [[revelation]] were important<br />
*Laymen's opinions were regarded as important as clerical opinions<br />
*Expectation of the [[end times]]<br />
<br />
'''160 – 180 CE: [[Melitio]], Bishop of [[Sardis]]'''<br />
*Asked the Hebrews in Palestine, which writings are to be considered holy. <br />
*Accepted their opinion without critical questioning and the [[Old Testament]] came into being. <br />
*Also accepted apocryphal books (1st and 2nd [[Maccabees]], [[Book of Wisdom]] and [[Jesus Sirach]])<br />
<br />
Around this time the church began to send out [[priests]] to examine churches' doctrines after travellers reported doctrinal differences. The larger, stronger and richer churches dictated their doctrine on the smaller ones.<br />
<br />
Despite Marcion's canon, the heresy of the Montanism and doctrinal disputes there still was no official attempt to create an orthodox canon.<br />
<br />
'''150 – 200 CE: [[Acts of Paul]]'''<br />
*Apocryphal book, written to honour Paul<br />
*The priest who wrote it was ousted for falsification<br />
*Despite that his work stayed popular in the churches and is part of the [[Armenian Bible]] to this day.<br />
<br />
'''172 CE: [[Tatian]] founded a church in Syria'''<br />
*after he was converted and trained by [[Justin the Martyr]]<br />
*Banned wine, meat and marriage<br />
*Compiled the Syrian canon: [[Diatessaron]], which is an edited and harmonized version of the 4 Gospels, several Epistles of Paul (which ones is unknown) and Acts. <br />
<br />
'''177 CE: [[Athenagoras]] invents the [[Trinity]]'''<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Serapion]] visited the churches in [[Asia]]'''<br />
and was confronted with disputes, whether the [[Gospel of Peter]] can or can't be read in churches. As quickly as he approved of it, he declared it heretical after reading it. <br />
'''NB:''' The Gospel of Peter also contains the [[Apocalypse of Peter]], an extremely graphic depiction of hell that still is considered divinely inspired. Poe couldn't have done it any better. [[Dante Alighieri]] did (and I recommend reading [[Dante's Inferno]] if you're into horror stories! Really, good snuff!).<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Dionysus]]'''<br />
*Demanded, that his letters and the "writings of the Lord" are revised, thus questioning the veracity of all Scripture.<br />
'''NB:''' Even Paul points out the numerous forgeries!<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Talmud]] was canonized'''<br />
<br />
'''200 CE: [[Irenaeus]], Bishop of Lugdunum (Lyon, France)'''<br />
*Quoted almost every book in the modern New Testament which points to an inofficial canon.<br />
*He stated that there have to be exactly 4 Gospels, since there are 4 directions, 4 winds, 4 blah and 4 blib.<br />
<br />
'''Basic rules of determining the veracity of a text:'''<br />
*If it fits your doctrine, it's inspired.<br />
*If it doesn't, it isn't.<br />
*Might makes right. God will surely make sure that the right dudes are in power. (What about the girls?)<br />
*Literary history and scholarship don't count. Which isn't surprising in the light of people relying on oral tradition.<br />
*I just wrote oral<br />
*You just giggled<br />
<br />
'''150 – 215 CE: Titus Flavius Clemens aka [[Clement]] of Alexandria'''<br />
*First serious scholar among the church fathers<br />
*Quoted written sources ca. 8,000 times<br />
*2,500 of the quotes were not Christian or Jewish<br />
*Agreed with Tatian's Diatessaron but also accepts the Gnostic [[Egyptian Gospel]], the [[Hebrew Gospel]], the [[Traditions of Matthias]], the Shepherd of Hermas, the Barnabas-Epistle, the Apocalypse of Peter, the Didache and oral tradition.<br />
*You just realized that i wrote oral again.<br />
<br />
'''The "secret [[Gospel of Mark]]"'''<br />
Clement mentioned 3 different versions of the Gospel of Mark in a letter to Theodoros:<br />
*A short version written in Rome, based on the teachings of Peter<br />
*A longer, more spiritual version written in Alexandria after Peter's death<br />
*A "secret" version, 2 fragments of which are preserved together with the letter<br />
'''NB:''' Many writings were falsified, hidden or disposed of to preserve doctrine!<br />
<br />
'''ca. 195 CE: Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullianus aka [[Tertullian]]'''<br />
*Compiled a commented list of books he accepted including, among others, the traditional inofficial canon and the Shepherd of Hermas.<br />
*Pissed off by the envy and laxity of the Roman clergy he converted to Montanism.<br />
<br />
'''203 CE: Origenes Adamantius aka [[Origen]] '''<br />
*Became head of the Christian Seminar of Alexandria at the age of 18<br />
*Performed the first scientific examination of Christianity<br />
<br />
In 231 CE he fled to [[Caesarea]] after a clash with Bishop [[Demetrius]]. He founded a new school there that soon outshone the school in Alexandria. He converted [[Ambrosius]] from gnostic [[Valentianism]] to [[Orthodoxy]]. Ambrosius became his financier.<br />
He agreed with Tatian's Diatessaron and calls it the only reliable piece of work criticized by no one (only talking about non-heretics, which indicates that non-heretics, too, argued about the Gospels). He also accepted the Gospel of Peter, the Shepherd of Hermas, Didache, the Barnabas-Epistle as holy scriptures but he doubted the veracity of the 2nd and 3rd Epistles of John, the 2nd Epistle of Paul and the Hebrew Epistle.<br />
<br />
Origen castrated himself which was a capital crime in Rome (and pretty stupid, too).<br />
<br />
'''Late 2nd to 4th c. CE: [[Canon Muratori]]'''<br />
*Fragment of a commented Latin list of writings including the Apocalypse of John, the Apocalypse of Peter and the Book of Wisdom<br />
*Calls the Shepherd of Hermas commendable but not inspired<br />
*Doesn't include Hebrews, Jacob, 1. and 2. Peter and 3. John<br />
*Contradicts Marcionism, Montanism, Valentianism and other gnostic flavours<br />
*Indicates an existing canon as soon as the 2nd century CE<br />
<br />
'''260/264 – 339/340 CE: [[Eusebius]] of Caesarea '''<br />
*Followed Origen's teachings<br />
*Agreed with the Trinity-concept, albeit with Jesus on a lower rank than God<br />
*Agreed with forgeries and lies in favour of God and against heresy<br />
<br />
'''Almost everything we know about early church history we know ''from this guy!'' He's the only source for many pieces of information.'''<br />
<br />
'''4th c. CE: [[Codex Sinaiticus]]'''<br />
*Bible manuscript found at the [[Mount Sinai]]<br />
*Contains large portions of the Old Testament, the entire New Testament from Matthew to Revelations, the Shepherd of Hermas and the Barnabas-Epistle<br />
<br />
'''ca. 350 CE: [[Cyril]] of Jerusalem published his own canon '''<br />
*as part of his 23 [[catechetical lectures]]<br />
*First official canon of a high-ranking church leader<br />
*Insisted that only books from his list may be read, even in private<br />
*Identical with today's canon without the Apocalypse of John<br />
'''NB: One single man decided!'''<br />
<br />
'''363 – 364 CE: [[Synode of Laodicea]]'''<br />
*Ca. 20 – 30 Bishops gathered to constitute an official canon. <br />
*They agreed on Cyril's canon.<br />
<br />
'''367 CE: [[Athanasius]] the Great, Bishop of Alexandria'''<br />
*Listed the 27 books of the modern New Testament in his [[39th Festal Letter]] thus adding the Apocalypse of John to the canon. <br />
*Ruled that the canon may not be changed anymore.<br />
'''NB: Again one single man decided!'''<br />
<br />
'''692 CE: Concilium Quinisextum aka [[2nd Trullan Synode]]'''<br />
*Convoked by Emperor [[Justinian II]] in Trullo<br />
*Upheld the Synode of Laodicea '''and''' Athanasius despite the disagreement about the Apocalypse of John<br />
*Declared the Clement-Epistles as holy and part of the Bible<br />
*Added 8 more books "which it is not appropriate to make public before all, because of the mysteries contained in them"<br />
<br />
'''1443 CE: [[Council of Florence]]'''<br />
*Upheld Athanasius' list<br />
*finally sealed the 27-books-canon of the New Testament<br />
*Was convoked because the authenticity esp. of the Hebrew-Epistle were doubted when the people of the [[Renaissance]] began to read and think for themselves.<br />
<br />
'''1516 CE: First edition of the [[Textus Receptus]] in Greek'''<br />
*Published by [[Erasmus of Rotterdam]] <br />
*The first edition was fairly flawed<br />
*Many Bible translations are based on the Textus Receptus<br />
<br />
'''1521 CE: [[Martin Luther]] translated the New Testament into German'''<br />
*Used the 2nd edition of Erasmus' Textus Receptus, Erasmus' Latin translation and the Latin Vulgate<br />
<br />
'''1523 CE: Luther translated the first part of the Old Testament into German'''<br />
<br />
'''1534 CE: Luther finished his translation of the Old Testament'''<br />
<br />
'''1545 - 1463 CE: [[Council of Trent]]'''<br />
Affirmed the Council of Florence<br />
<br />
'''1604 – 1611 CE: Translation of the [[KJV]]'''<br />
*From now on Jesus speaks English!<br />
<br />
== Sources ==<br />
<br />
"The History of the Biblical Canon", Matt Dillahunty, ACA<br />
<br />
http://www.wikipedia.org<br />
<br />
[[Category:Bible]] [[Category:History]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Holy_Riders_MCHoly Riders MC2011-06-10T19:38:26Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Hrmc.jpg|thumb|right|Holy Riders MC Germany]]<br />
<br />
[[Image:TurnOrBurn2010.jpg|thumb|right|Turn or Burn Rally 2010]]<br />
<br />
== General information ==<br />
<br />
The Holy Riders MC (HRMC) is an evangelistic [[Christian]] motorcycle club founded in 1981 in Norway. They call themselves an "evangelistic motorcycle club". They do not attempt to act as a [[church]] substitute for their members. They actively proselytize among motorcyclists. They don't endorse any specific flavour of Christianity, although the author of this article has personally seen the former president of the German chapter throw a [[Catholic]] woman out at one of their motorcycle rallies for spreading the "false message" of the Catholic church (while I myself was JackDaniel'sd up to the brim and was not kicked out - hypocrites). <br />
<br />
== History ==<br />
<br />
The Holy Riders MC was founded in 1981 in Norway. Since then the club has spread all over Norway and swapped over to Germany in 1999.<br />
<br />
== Chapters ==<br />
<br />
The HRMC currently runs 18 chapters in Norway, namely Aalesund, Aust Adger, Bergen, Indre Adger, Indre Ostfold, Lofoten, Lyngdal, Mjosa, Nedre Buskerud, Nordhordland, Oslo, Sunnhordland, Sydvest, Telemark, Trondelag, Vestfold, West, Ytre Ostfold and a national chapter in Germany.<br />
<br />
== Chapter Germany ==<br />
<br />
The German chapter of the HRMC was founded in 1999 by [[Kornelius Novak]], who had met and become a member the Norwegian club earlier. <br />
<br />
The HRMC Germany tries to set up contacts to other MCs and biker groups like the Hells Angels MC, the Gremium MC, the Bandidos MC, the Outlaws MC, just to name a few big ones. They try to act as a calm haven in a conflict laden environment. They do not claim any territory and do not support any club politics.<br />
<br />
They regularly and actively proselytize among bikers on all kinds of motorcycle-related events like the "European Bike Week" in Faak am See, Austria, the "INTERMOT" in Cologne, Germany or the beautiful "Elefantentreffen" in Thurmannsbang / Solla, Germany. They also visit other clubs in their own places.<br />
<br />
When the [[Kornelius Novak|founder and former president]] of the chapter tried to restructure the chapter to no longer proselytize among bikers only, he was excluded from the club and a shitstorm ensued. He then founded a new organization named [[Jesus Family]] which, generally speaking, was a barrel burst. <br />
<br />
=== Leadership and rules ===<br />
<br />
The statutes of the HRMC Germany are the strictest in the entire club. Hey, after all they're Germans! While their Norwegian friends don't mind having a beer or two it's an absolute don't for the Germans.<br />
<br />
The following information might be outdated and is to be used with caution. Since the former president was excluded the rules might have been loosened.<br />
<br />
According to the statutes of the HRMC Germany all club officials are anointed, never elected. Members are not allowed to smoke (at all), drink any alcohol in public when wearing the club's color (the large patch on the back of their jackets) or share a home with their partners in extra-marital relationships. Members are required to be active members of a church. Gays are not welcome.<br />
<br />
Club membership requires riding with the club as a so-called "hangaround" for a not specified length of time, usually one year, after which the person is "anointed" as "prospect", usually for another year. Prospects can then be "anointed" as full members at their annual "Rüstwochenende". <br />
<br />
The smoking-and-drinking-rules apply to hangarounds and prospects, too. They have to actively take part in the usual activities of the club. During the hangaround-period the person is not allowed to wear any non-religious patches on their jackets, prospects do not yet wear the full color, only the chest patches "Holy Riders MC", "Jesus lebt" and "Turn or Burn" and a small patch with the club's logo as well as the so-called "bottom rocker", the banner on their back saying "Germany". Members may not wear any additional patches on their jackets.<br />
<br />
=== Propaganda material ===<br />
<br />
The most favourite propaganda material of the HRMC is the [[Biker-Bibel]], a special edition of the [[New Testament]] including several [[Testimony|testimonies]] of Bikers who converted to Christianity in times of hardship.<br />
<br />
== Regular Events ==<br />
<br />
The HRMC organize their own regular events like the "Pilegrimstreffet", the "EMC Bike Week" (European Motorcyclists for Christ) and the "Turn or Burn Rally", the name of which is the most blatant version of [[Pascal's Wager]] ever. Where's [[Jeff Dee]] when you need him...? They meet for an internal "Rüstwochenende" every year to pray together and discuss upcoming events and their general strategy.<br />
<br />
== Links ==<br />
<br />
Holy Riders MC Norway: http://www.holyriders.no<br />
<br />
Holy Riders MC Germany: http://www.holyriders.de <br />
<br />
EMC Bike Week: http://www.emc-rally.com/index_eng.php?start=1<br />
<br />
[[Category:Organizations]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=User:DaskrautUser:Daskraut2011-06-10T19:20:44Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Daskraut.jpg|thumb|right|Daskraut]]i is be a atheist from good old germany. daskraut. das kraut. kraut - get it? sure you do! you bombed our butts to bedrock last century. btw: thanks for that, i'd hate living under a nazi world gouvernment!<br />
<br />
i was built and born in '74 in the beautiful city of nürnberg. you'd call that nuremberg. no, it's not bavaria, it's frankonia. if you want to piss me off big time, just call me bavarian!<br />
<br />
i graduated what we call "gymnasium" in 1995. in germany we call that level "abitur". my graduation courses were biology, english, protestant theology (yes, we have that in our schools!) and math. don't call me a genius tho, i scored c- on average. barely made it...<br />
<br />
from 95 to 97 i got job training as an office guy. since then i worked as office guy, truck driver (the big ones with 42 tons), it-trainer, computer guy and nightguard.<br />
<br />
i've been a christian for 18 years after i was prostitutelyzed (pun intended) by some other youths in the mid 90s. i've been a fundamentalist for the last 7 years of that. i went to a baptist church in southern germany - yes, we have that, too! - for the first 5 of those 7 years. during this time of maximum insanity i did a lot of damage by doing graphics, layout and webdesign work for a missionary and pastor, i also was the sound tech guy at the church i went to. i do sincerely apologize for that and i deeply regret it!<br />
<br />
when i was disappointed by the church big time i moved away from that town, closer to my place of work which happened to be a christian juvenile detention center in free forms closely affiliated to pfi. i can't disclose any information on the facility so don't ask. i was their system admin, database dude, webmaster, helldesk guy and everything else computer. and the night guard. i do apologize for that, i sincerely do. mea maxima culpa! i'm an [[Asshat]].<br />
<br />
after i moved away from that baptist church i continued to believe in god for 2 more years. i finally woke up in october 2009. no, i won't tell you what happened but i realized that there either is no god or he doesn't give a damn. in both cases: why should i bother? a year later i found the atheist experience and the non-prophets. i backwatched and -listened the entire archives. amazing! my favourite guys are jeff dee and ashley perrien. sorry, matt, but you come in third ;) my favourite girls on the shows are all of them girls. especially all of them! very. btw - i'm available, girls!<br />
<br />
i'm not at all a scientist - lightyears from it! - but i'd still like to call yall "peers" and i call for yall to peer-review articles i post. check them, double-check them, correct them if they're flawed, expand them if there's more to say. let's all work together!<br />
<br />
i currently am e-mail-debating my [[Kornelius Novak|former pastor]] who moved to norway as a missionary. i'm going to share any significant analysiseseseseses and rebuttals here on the wiki but since i'm a kraut my english isn't the best so by all means - feel free to polish them up, add more information, add more and better sources, edit them mercilessly and kick my big fat butt whenever i'm wrong. my first article is on [[Tyre|Ezekiel's prophecy on Tyre]].<br />
<br />
since there's no reason to not believe that quite a number of other germans and fellow europeans browse this site, too, i might at some point post articles about topics closely related to germany or europe. norway, you're currently being plagued by [[Kornelius Novak]] whom i know personally. i'll post something about him, too. i of course encourage european users to check-and-double-check and correct my europe-related articles.<br />
<br />
yeah, and my mob-farm currently produces circa 11,250 - 11,500 items / hour. not bad, mates, ey?<br />
<br />
cya and buy<br />
daskraut<br />
<br />
nb: should anyone ever want to bestow a title on me i'd like to be called "the atheist rottweiler" *grin*</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Holy_Riders_MCHoly Riders MC2011-06-10T19:04:51Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Hrmc.jpg|thumb|right|Holy Riders MC Germany]]<br />
<br />
[[Image:TurnOrBurn2010.jpg|thumb|right|Turn or Burn Rally 2010]]<br />
<br />
== General information ==<br />
<br />
The Holy Riders MC (HRMC) is an evangelistic [[Christian]] motorcycle club founded in 1981 in Norway. They call themselves an "evangelistic motorcycle club". They do not attempt to act as a [[church]] substitute for their members. They actively proselytize among motorcyclists. They don't endorse any specific flavour of Christianity, although the author of this article has personally seen the former president of the German chapter throw a [[Catholic]] woman out at one of their motorcycle rallies for spreading the "false message" of the Catholic church (while I myself was JackDaniel'sd up to the brim and was not kicked out - hypocrites). <br />
<br />
== History ==<br />
<br />
The Holy Riders MC was founded in 1981 in Norway. Since then the club has spread all over Norway and swapped over to Germany in 1999.<br />
<br />
== Chapters ==<br />
<br />
The HRMC currently runs 18 chapters in Norway, namely Aalesund, Aust Adger, Bergen, Indre Adger, Indre Ostfold, Lofoten, Lyngdal, Mjosa, Nedre Buskerud, Nordhordland, Oslo, Sunnhordland, Sydvest, Telemark, Trondelag, Vestfold, West, Ytre Ostfold and a national chapter in Germany.<br />
<br />
== Chapter Germany ==<br />
<br />
The German chapter of the HRMC was founded in 1999 by [[Kornelius Novak]], who had met and become a member the Norwegian club earlier. <br />
<br />
The HRMC Germany tries to set up contacts to other MCs and biker groups like the Hells Angels MC, the Gremium MC, the Bandidos MC, the Outlaws MC, just to name a few big ones. They try to act as a calm haven in a conflict laden environment. They do not claim any territory and do not support any club politics.<br />
<br />
They regularly and actively proselytize among bikers on all kinds of motorcycle-related events like the "European Bike Week" in Faak am See, Austria, the "INTERMOT" in Cologne, Germany or the beautiful "Elefantentreffen" in Thurmannsbang / Solla, Germany. They also visit other clubs in their own places.<br />
<br />
When the [[Kornelius Novak|founder and former president]] of the chapter tried to restructure the chapter to no longer proselytize among bikers only, he was excluded from the club and a shitstorm ensued. He then founded a new organisation named [[Jesus Family]] which, generally speaking, was a barrel burst. <br />
<br />
=== Leadership and rules ===<br />
<br />
The statutes of the HRMC Germany are the strictest in the entire club. Hey, after all they're Germans! While their Norwegian friends don't mind having a beer or two it's an absolute don't for the Germans.<br />
<br />
The following information might be outdated and is to be used with caution. Since the former president was excluded the rules might have been loosened.<br />
<br />
According to the statutes of the HRMC Germany all club officials are anointed, never elected. Members are not allowed to smoke (at all), drink any alcohol in public when wearing the club's color (the large patch on the back of their jackets) or share a home with their partners in extra-marital relationships. Members are required to be active members of a church. Gays are not welcome.<br />
<br />
Club membership requires riding with the club as a so-called "hangaround" for a not specified length of time, usually one year, after which the person is "anointed" as "prospect", usually for another year. Prospects can then be "anointed" as full members at their annual "Rüstwochenende". <br />
<br />
The smoking-and-drinking-rules apply to hangarounds and prospects, too. They have to actively take part in the usual activities of the club. During the hangaround-period the person is not allowed to wear any non-religious patches on their jackets, prospects do not yet wear the full color, only the chest patches "Holy Riders MC", "Jesus lebt" and "Turn or Burn" and a small patch with the club's logo as well as the so-called "bottom rocker", the banner on their back saying "Germany". Members may not wear any additional patches on their jackets.<br />
<br />
=== Propaganda material ===<br />
<br />
The most favourite propaganda material of the HRMC is the [[Biker-Bibel]], a special edition of the [[New Testament]] including several [[Testimony|testimonies]] of Bikers who converted to Christianity in times of hardship.<br />
<br />
== Regular Events ==<br />
<br />
The HRMC organize their own regular events like the "Pilegrimstreffet", the "EMC Bike Week" (European Motorcyclists for Christ) and the "Turn or Burn Rally", the name of which is the most blatant version of [[Pascal's Wager]] ever. Where's [[Jeff Dee]] when you need him...? They meet for an internal "Rüstwochenende" every year to pray together and discuss upcoming events and their general strategy.<br />
<br />
== Links ==<br />
<br />
Holy Riders MC Norway: http://www.holyriders.no<br />
<br />
Holy Riders MC Germany: http://www.holyriders.de <br />
<br />
EMC Bike Week: http://www.emc-rally.com/index_eng.php?start=1<br />
<br />
[[Category:Organizations]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Holy_Riders_MCHoly Riders MC2011-06-10T19:04:07Z<p>Daskraut: weeded out some spelling errors and shit</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Hrmc.jpg|thumb|right|Holy Riders MC Germany]]<br />
<br />
[[Image:TurnOrBurn2010.jpg|thumb|right|Turn or Burn Rally 2010]]<br />
<br />
== General information ==<br />
<br />
The Holy Riders MC (HRMC) is an evangelistic [[Christian]] motorcycle club founded in 1981 in Norway. They call themselves an "evangelistic motorcycle club". They do not attempt to act as a [[church]] substitute for their members. They actively proselytize among motorcyclists. They don't endorse any specific flavour of Christianity, although the author of this article has personally seen the former president of the German chapter throw a [[Catholic]] woman out at one of their motorcycle rallies for spreading the "false message" of the Catholic church (while I myself was JackDaniel'sd up to the brim and was not kicked out - hypocrites). <br />
<br />
== History ==<br />
<br />
The Holy Riders MC was founded in 1981 in Norway. Since then the club has spread all over Norway and swapped over to Germany in 1999.<br />
<br />
== Chapters ==<br />
<br />
The HRMC currently runs 18 chapters in Norway, namely Aalesund, Aust Adger, Bergen, Indre Adger, Indre Ostfold, Lofoten, Lyngdal, Mjosa, Nedre Buskerud, Nordhordland, Oslo, Sunnhordland, Sydvest, Telemark, Trondelag, Vestfold, West, Ytre Ostfold and a national chapter in Germany.<br />
<br />
== Chapter Germany ==<br />
<br />
The German chapter of the HRMC was founded in 1999 by [[Kornelius Novak]], who had met and become a member the Norwegian club earlier. <br />
<br />
The HRMC Germany tries to set up contacts to other MCs and biker groups like the Hells Angels MC, the Gremium MC, the Bandidos MC, the Outlaws MC, just to name a few big ones. They try to act as a calm haven in a conflict laden environment. They do not claim any territory and do not support any club politics.<br />
<br />
They regularly and actively proselytize among bikers on all kinds of motorcycle-related events like the "European Bike Week" in Faak am See, Austria, the "INTERMOT" in Cologne, Germany or the beautiful "Elefantentreffen" in Thurmannsbang / Solla, Germany. They also visit other clubs in their own places.<br />
<br />
When the [[Kornelius Novak|founder and former president]] of the chapter tried to restructure the chapter to no longer proselytize among bikers only, he was excluded from the club and a shitstorm ensued. He then founded a new organisation named [[Jesus Family]] which, generally speaking, was a barrel burst. <br />
<br />
=== Leadership and rules ===<br />
<br />
The statutes of the HRMC Germany are the strictest in the entire club. Hey, after all they're Germans! While their Norwegian friends don't mind having a beer or two it's an absolute don't for the Germans.<br />
<br />
The following information might be outdated and is to be used with caution. Since the former president was excluded the rules might have been loosened.<br />
<br />
According to the statutes of the HRMC Germany all club officials are anointed, never elected. Members are not allowed to smoke (at all), drink any alcohol in public when wearing the club's color (the large patch on the back of their jackets) or share a home with their partners in extra-marital relationships. Members are required to be active members of a church. Gays are not welcome.<br />
<br />
Club membership requires riding with the club as a so-called "hangaround" for a not specified length of time, usually one year, after which the person is "anointed" as "prospect", usually for another year. Prospects can then be "anointed" as full members at their annual "Rüstwochenende". <br />
<br />
The smoking-and-drinking-rules apply to hangarounds and prospects, too. They have to actively take part in the usual activities of the club. During the hangaround-period the person is not allowed to wear any non-religious patches on their jackets, prospects do not yet wear the full color, only the chest patches "Holy Riders MC", "Jesus lebt" and "Turn or Burn" and a small patch with the club's logo as well as the so-called "bottom rocker", the banner on their back saying "Germany". Members may not wear any additional patches on their jackets.<br />
<br />
=== Propaganda Material ===<br />
<br />
The most favourite propaganda material of the HRMC is the [[Biker-Bibel]], a special edition of the [[New Testament]] including several [[Testimony|testimonies]] of Bikers who converted to Christianity in times of hardship.<br />
<br />
== Regular Events ==<br />
<br />
The HRMC organize their own regular events like the "Pilegrimstreffet", the "EMC Bike Week" (European Motorcyclists for Christ) and the "Turn or Burn Rally", the name of which is the most blatant version of [[Pascal's Wager]] ever. Where's [[Jeff Dee]] when you need him...? They meet for an internal "Rüstwochenende" every year to pray together and discuss upcoming events and their general strategy.<br />
<br />
== Links ==<br />
<br />
Holy Riders MC Norway: http://www.holyriders.no<br />
<br />
Holy Riders MC Germany: http://www.holyriders.de <br />
<br />
EMC Bike Week: http://www.emc-rally.com/index_eng.php?start=1<br />
<br />
[[Category:Organizations]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=HRMCHRMC2011-06-10T18:55:54Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT: [[Holy Riders MC]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Holy_RidersHoly Riders2011-06-10T18:55:23Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT: [[Holy Riders MC]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Holy_Riders_MCHoly Riders MC2011-06-10T18:54:38Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Hrmc.jpg|thumb|right|Holy Riders MC Germany]]<br />
<br />
[[Image:TurnOrBurn2010.jpg|thumb|right|Turn or Burn Rally 2010]]<br />
<br />
== General information ==<br />
<br />
The Holy Riders MC (HRMC) is an evangelistic [[Christian]] motorcycle club founded in 1981 in Norway. They call themselves an "evangelistic motorcycle club". They do not attempt to act as a [[church]] substitute for their members. They actively proselytize among motorcyclists. They don't endorse any specific flavour of Christianity, although the author of this article has personally seen the former president of the German chapter throw a [[Catholic]] woman out at one of their motorcycle rallies for spreading the "false message" of the Catholic church (while I myself was JackDaniel'sd up to the brim and was not kicked out - hypocrites). <br />
<br />
== History ==<br />
<br />
The Holy Riders MC was founded in 1981 in Norway. Since then the club has spread all over Norway and swapped over to Germany in 1999.<br />
<br />
== Chapters ==<br />
<br />
The HRMC currently runs 18 chapters in Norway, namely Aalesund, Aust Adger, Bergen, Indre Adger, Indre Ostfold, Lofoten, Lyngdal, Mjosa, Nedre Buskerud, Nordhordland, Oslo, Sunnhordland, Sydvest, Telemark, Trondelag, Vestfold, West, Ytre Ostfold and a national chapter in Germany.<br />
<br />
== Chapter Germany ==<br />
<br />
The German chapter of the HRMC was founded in 1999 by [[Kornelius Novak]], who had met and become a member the Norwegian club earlier. The HRMC Germany tries to set up contacts to other MCs and biker groups like the Hells Angels MC, the Gremium MC, the Bandidos MC, the Outlaws MC, just to name a few big names. They try to act as a calm haven in a conflict loaded environment. They do not claim any territory and do not support any club politics.<br />
<br />
They regularly and actively proselytize among bikers on all kinds of motorcycle-related events like the "European Bike Week" in Faak am See, Austria, the "INTERMOT" in Cologne, Germany or the beautiful "Elefantentreffen" in Thurmannsbang / Solla, Germany. They also visit other clubs in their own places.<br />
<br />
When the [[Kornelius Novak|founder and former president]] of the chapter tried to restructure the chapter to no longer proselytize among bikers only, he was excluded from the club and a shitstorm ensued. He then founded a new organisation named [[Jesus Family]] which, generally speaking, was a barrel burst. <br />
<br />
=== Leadership and rules ===<br />
<br />
The statutes of the HRMC Germany are the strictest in the entire club. Hey, after all they're Germans! While their Norwegian friends don't mind having a beer or two it's an absolute don't for the Germans.<br />
<br />
The following information might be outdated an is to be used with caution. Since the former president was excluded the rules might have been loosened.<br />
<br />
According to the statutes of the HRMC Germany all club officials are anointed, never elected. Members are not allowed to smoke (at all), drink any alcohol in public when wearing the club's color (the large patch on the back of their jackets) or share a home with their partners in extra-marital relationships. Members are required to be active members of a church. Gays are not welcome.<br />
<br />
Club membership requires riding with the club as a so-called "hangaround" for a not specified length of time, usually one year, after which the person is "anointed" as "prospect", usually for another year. Prospects can then be "anointed" as full members at their annual "Rüstwochenende". <br />
<br />
The smoking-and-drinking-rules apply to hangarounds and prospects, too- They have to actively take part in the usual activities of the club. During the hangaround-period the person is not allowed to wear any non-religious patches on their jackets, prospects do not yet wear the full color, only the chest patches "Holy Riders MC", "Jesus lebt" and "Turn or Burn" and a small patch with the club's logo as well as the so-called "bottom rocker", the banner on their back saying "Germany". Members may not wear any additional patches on their jackets.<br />
<br />
=== Propaganda Material ===<br />
<br />
The most favourite propaganda material of the HRMC is the [[Biker-Bibel]], a special edition of the [[New Testament]] including several [[Testimony|testimonies]] of Bikers who converted to Christianity in times of hardship.<br />
<br />
== Regular Events ==<br />
<br />
The HRMC organize their own regular events like the "Pilegrimstreffet", the "EMC Bike Week" (European Motorcyclists for Christ) and the "Turn or Burn Rally", the name of which is the most blatant version of [[Pascal's Wager]] ever. Where's [[Jeff Dee]] when you need him...? They meet for an internal "Rüstwochenende" every year to pray together and discuss upcoming events and their general strategiy.<br />
<br />
== Links ==<br />
<br />
Holy Riders MC Norway: http://www.holyriders.no<br />
<br />
Holy Riders MC Germany: http://www.holyriders.de <br />
<br />
EMC Bike Week: http://www.emc-rally.com/index_eng.php?start=1<br />
<br />
[[Category:Organizations]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Holy_Riders_MCHoly Riders MC2011-06-10T18:54:16Z<p>Daskraut: Full article on the HRMC</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Hrmc.jpg|thumb|right|Holy Riders MC Germany]]<br />
<br />
[[Image:TurnOrBurn2010.jpg|thumb|right|Turn or Burn Rally 2010]]<br />
<br />
== General information ==<br />
<br />
The Holy Riders MC (HRMC) is an evangelistic [[Christian]] motorcycle club founded in 1981 in Norway. They call themselves an "evangelistic motorcycle club". They do not attempt to act as a [[church]] substitute for their members. They actively proselytize among motorcyclists. They don't endorse any specific flavour of Christianity, although the author of this article has personally seen the former president of the German chapter throw a [[Catholic]] woman out at one of their motorcycle rallies for spreading the "false message" of the Catholic church (while I myself was JackDaniel'sd up to the brim and was not kicked out - hypocrites). <br />
<br />
== History ==<br />
<br />
The Holy Riders MC was founded in 1981 in Norway. Since then the club has spread all over Norway and swapped over to Germany in 1999.<br />
<br />
== Chapters ==<br />
<br />
The HRMC currently runs 18 chapters in Norway, namely Aalesund, Aust Adger, Bergen, Indre Adger, Indre Ostfold, Lofoten, Lyngdal, Mjosa, Nedre Buskerud, Nordhordland, Oslo, Sunnhordland, Sydvest, Telemark, Trondelag, Vestfold, West, Ytre Ostfold and a national chapter in Germany.<br />
<br />
== Chapter Germany ==<br />
<br />
The German chapter of the HRMC was founded in 1999 by [[Kornelius Novak]], who had met and become a member the Norwegian club earlier. The HRMC Germany tries to set up contacts to other MCs and biker groups like the Hells Angels MC, the Gremium MC, the Bandidos MC, the Outlaws MC, just to name a few big names. They try to act as a calm haven in a conflict loaded environment. They do not claim any territory and do not support any club politics.<br />
<br />
They regularly and actively proselytize among bikers on all kinds of motorcycle-related events like the "European Bike Week" in Faak am See, Austria, the "INTERMOT" in Cologne, Germany or the beautiful "Elefantentreffen" in Thurmannsbang / Solla, Germany. They also visit other clubs in their own places.<br />
<br />
When the [[Kornelius Novak|founder and former president]] of the chapter tried to restructure the chapter to no longer proselytize among bikers only, he was excluded from the club and a shitstorm ensued. He then founded a new organisation named [[Jesus Family]] which, generally speaking, was a barrel burst. <br />
<br />
=== Leadership and rules ===<br />
<br />
The statutes of the HRMC Germany are the strictest in the entire club. Hey, after all they're Germans! While their Norwegian friends don't mind having a beer or two it's an absolute don't for the Germans.<br />
<br />
The following information might be outdated an is to be used with caution. Since the former president was excluded the rules might have been loosened.<br />
<br />
According to the statutes of the HRMC Germany all club officials are anointed, never elected. Members are not allowed to smoke (at all), drink any alcohol in public when wearing the club's color (the large patch on the back of their jackets) or share a home with their partners in extra-marital relationships. Members are required to be active members of a church. Gays are not welcome.<br />
<br />
Club membership requires riding with the club as a so-called "hangaround" for a not specified length of time, usually one year, after which the person is "anointed" as "prospect", usually for another year. Prospects can then be "anointed" as full members at their annual "Rüstwochenende". <br />
<br />
The smoking-and-drinking-rules apply to hangarounds and prospects, too- They have to actively take part in the usual activities of the club. During the hangaround-period the person is not allowed to wear any non-religious patches on their jackets, prospects do not yet wear the full color, only the chest patches "Holy Riders MC", "Jesus lebt" and "Turn or Burn" and a small patch with the club's logo as well as the so-called "bottom rocker", the banner on their back saying "Germany". Members may not wear any additional patches on their jackets.<br />
<br />
=== Propaganda Material ===<br />
<br />
The most favourite propaganda material of the HRMC is the [[Biker-Bibel]], a special edition of the [[New Testament]] including several [[Testimony|testimonies]] of Bikers who converted to Christianity in times of hardship.<br />
<br />
== Regular Events ==<br />
<br />
The HRMC organize their own regular events like the "Pilegrimstreffet", the "EMC Bike Week" (European Motorcyclists for Christ) and the "Turn or Burn Rally", the name of which is the most blatant version of [[Pascal's Wager]] ever. Where's [[Jeff Dee]] when you need him...? They meet for an internal "Rüstwochenende" every year to pray together and discuss upcoming events and their general strategiy.<br />
<br />
== Links ==<br />
<br />
Holy Riders MC Norway: http://www.holyriders.no<br />
<br />
Holy Riders MC Germany: http://www.holyriders.de <br />
<br />
EMC Bike Week: http://www.emc-rally.com/index_eng.php?start=1<br />
<br />
[[Category:Organisations]]<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Organizations]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=File:Hrmc.jpgFile:Hrmc.jpg2011-06-10T18:39:59Z<p>Daskraut: Holy Riders MC Germany - Logo</p>
<hr />
<div>Holy Riders MC Germany - Logo</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=User:DaskrautUser:Daskraut2011-06-10T16:33:04Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Daskraut.jpg|thumb|right|Daskraut]]i is be a atheist from good old germany. daskraut. das kraut. kraut - get it? sure you do! you bombed our butts to bedrock last century. btw: thanks for that, i'd hate living under a nazi world gouvernment!<br />
<br />
i was built and born in '74 in the beautiful city of nürnberg. you'd call that nuremberg. no, it's not bavaria, it's frankonia. if you want to piss me off big time, just call me bavarian!<br />
<br />
i graduated what we call "gymnasium" in 1995. in germany we call that level "abitur". my graduation courses were biology, english, protestant theology (yes, we have that in our schools!) and math. don't call me a genius tho, i scored c- on average. barely made it...<br />
<br />
from 95 to 97 i got job training as an office guy. since then i worked as office guy, truck driver (the big ones with 42 tons), it-trainer, computer guy and nightguard.<br />
<br />
i've been a christian for 18 years after i was prostitutelyzed (pun intended) by some other youths in the mid 90s. i've been a fundamentalist for the last 7 years of that. i went to a baptist church in southern germany - yes, we have that, too! - for the first 5 of those 7 years. during this time of maximum insanity i did a lot of damage by doing graphics, layout and webdesign work for a missionary and pastor, i also was the sound tech guy at the church i went to. i do sincerely apologize for that and i deeply regret it!<br />
<br />
when i was disappointed by the church big time i moved away from that town, closer to my place of work which happened to be a christian juvenile detention center in free forms closely affiliated to pfi. i can't disclose any information on the facility so don't ask. i was their system admin, database dude, webmaster, helldesk guy and everything else computer. and the night guard. i do apologize for that, i sincerely do. mea maxima culpa! i'm an [[Asshat]].<br />
<br />
after i moved away from that baptist church i continued to believe in god for 2 more years. i finally woke up in october 2009. no, i won't tell you what happened but i realized that there either is no god or he doesn't give a damn. in both cases: why should i bother? a year later i found the atheist experience and the non-prophets. i backwatched and -listened the entire archives. amazing! my favourite guys are jeff dee and ashley perrien. sorry, matt, but you come in third ;) my favourite girls on the shows are all of them girls. especially all of them! very. btw - i'm available, girls!<br />
<br />
i'm not at all a scientist - lightyears from it! - but i'd still like to call yall "peers" and i call for yall to peer-review articles i post. check them, double-check them, correct them if they're flawed, expand them if there's more to say. let's all work together!<br />
<br />
i currently am e-mail-debating my [[Kornelius Novak|former pastor]] who moved to norway as a missionary. i'm going to share any significant analysiseseseseses and rebuttals here on the wiki but since i'm a kraut my english isn't the best so by all means - feel free to polish them up, add more information, add more and better sources, edit them mercilessly and kick my big fat butt whenever i'm wrong. my first article is on [[Tyre|Ezekiel's prophecy on Tyre]].<br />
<br />
since there's no reason to not believe that quite a number of other germans and fellow europeans browse this site, too, i might at some point post articles about topics closely related to germany or europe. norway, you're currently being plagued by [[Kornelius Novak]] whom i know personally. i'll post something about him, too. i of course encourage european users to check-and-double-check and correct my europe-related articles.<br />
<br />
yeah, and my mob-farm currently produces circa 11,250 - 11,500 items / hour. not bad, mates, ey?<br />
<br />
cya and buy<br />
daskraut</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Kreuz_und_Quer_in_der_SzeneKreuz und Quer in der Szene2011-06-10T16:17:53Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Szenebibel.jpg|thumb|right|Kreuz & Quer in der Szene]]<br />
<br />
"Kreuz & Quer in der Szene", also referred to as the "Szenebibel", is an evangelistical pamphlet compiled by [[Kornelius Novak]]. It has been translated into several languages including Czech, Romanian, Norwegian and Russian. The Szenebibel is sold to [[Christian]]s and Christian organisations as propaganda material. It has been specifically designed as giveaway to proselytize among all different kinds of people like bikers, prison inmates, drug addicts, prostitutes and others, basically the easiest prey for rampant religious predators. Well, except for them bikers. They're pretty badass.<br />
<br />
== First edition ==<br />
<br />
The first edition was published in 2007 by the [[Lichtzeichen Verlag GmbH]] in Lange, Germany. It contained 20 [[Testimony|testimonies]] of people who converted to Christianity in times of severe hardship along with 14 articles by Kornelius Novak propagating his personal flavour of theology. All testimonies were commented on by the author. It also contained the [[Gospel of John]], the translation used was the Schlachter 2000-version [http://www.bibleserver.com/text/SLT/Johannes (don't read it online here)] which is easy to read and understand.<br />
<br />
Graphics and layout were done by an amateur and dilettante (I can tell, cos it was me. I apologize. Not for doing it badly, but for doing it at all!). Many images contained in the Szenebibel were downloaded from the internet and used regardless of and ignoring possible copyright issues and the rights of the owners. None of them were ever asked for permission to use their work.<br />
<br />
ISBN: 978-936850-57-4, Lichtzeichen Verlag GmbH<br />
<br />
== Second edition ==<br />
<br />
The second edition published in 2010 is somewhat thinner. The Gospel-part has been removed to make production cheaper. As of June 2011 the Szenebibel costs 4.80 Euros, 2 Euros cheaper than the first edition. Some testimonies were removed, new ones were added, some articles were changed. Graphics and layout were still done sloppily and the style still is the same. It still contains many images stolen from the web ignoring the rights of the owners. <br />
<br />
ISBN: 978-3-86954-018-4, Lichtzeichen Verlag GmbH<br />
<br />
== Translations ==<br />
<br />
The book has been translated into several other languages including Czech (ISBN: 978-3-936-85030-7, Lichtzeichen Verlag GmbH), Romanian (ISBN: 978-3-936-85038-3, Lichtzeichen Verlag GmbH), Norwegian (ISBN: 978-82-7007-357-3, [[Norsk Bokforlag AS]]) and Russian (ISBN: 978-3-869-54002-3, Lichtzeichen Verlag GmbH). The original text has been sent to translators, the returning translation was forcefully crammed into the original layout with neither the author nor the graphics dude knowing the languages (except Norwegian which the author speaks). They, too, contain a lot of un-copyrighted material. Only the Russian version has been designed by a professional (cos I was sick and tired of doing hard work for free). I guess he's a pro, he works for the publisher. I don't have a copy myself to see if he did it any better.<br />
<br />
== Non-comprehensive list of similar projects by other organisations ==<br />
*Biker-Bibel<br />
*Kicker-Bibel<br />
*Sportler-Bibel<br />
*Polizei-Bibel<br />
(Damn, i threw them all away... I could do articles on them if I still had them. Well, shit happens...)<br />
<br />
== Internet resources ==<br />
<br />
As of June 2011 the first edition w/o the Gospel-part is available online here:<br />
<br />
http://jesusfamily-kreuzundquer.de/szenebibel/00inhalt/00inhalt.html <br />
<br />
If someone removes or changes the website, you can still find it here:<br />
<br />
http://liveweb.archive.org/http://www.jesusfamily-kreuzundquer.de/szenebibel/00inhalt/00inhalt.html <br />
<br />
The website has been done by a dilettante, too. He still uses frames which you won't see using this link. He didn't even [[copypasta]] a script to load the frames. I do apologize for not doing my work properly. No, I'd rather apologize for doing it in the first place. Sorry! Countless people have been trapped by religion after reading it.<br />
<br />
I'm not going to link to the Lichtzeichen Verlag GmbH or Norsk Bokforlag AS websites. I don't want to increase their site's value. Google it. It's vile propaganda anyway.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Books]] [[Category:Reviews]] [[Category:Propaganda]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Kreuz_und_Quer_in_der_SzeneKreuz und Quer in der Szene2011-06-10T15:56:45Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Szenebibel.jpg|thumb|right|Kreuz & Quer in der Szene]]<br />
<br />
"Kreuz & Quer in der Szene", also referred to as the "Szenebibel", is an evangelistical pamphlet compiled by [[Kornelius Novak]]. It has been translated into several languages including Czech, Romanian, Norwegian and Russian. The Szenebibel is sold to [[Christian]]s and Christian organisations as propaganda material. It has been specifically designed as giveaway to proselytize among all different kinds of people like bikers, prison inmates, drug addicts, prostitutes and others, basically the easiest prey for rampant religious predators. Well, except for them bikers. They're pretty badass.<br />
<br />
== First edition ==<br />
<br />
The first edition was published in 2007 by the [[Lichtzeichen Verlag GmbH]] in Lange, Germany. It contained 20 [[Testimony|testimonies]] of people who converted to Christianity in times of severe hardship along with 14 articles by Kornelius Novak propagating his personal flavour of theology. All testimonies were commented on by the author. It also contained the [[Gospel of John|Gospel according to John]], the translation used was the [[Schlachter]]-version which is easy to read and understand.<br />
<br />
Graphics and layout were done by an amateur and dilettante (I can tell, cos it was me. I apologize. Not for doing it badly, rather for doing it at all!). Many images contained in the Szenebibel were downloaded from the internet and used regardless of and ignoring possible copyright issues and the rights of the owners. None of them were ever asked for permission to use their work.<br />
<br />
ISBN: 978-936850-57-4, Lichtzeichen Verlag GmbH<br />
<br />
== Second edition ==<br />
<br />
The second edition published in 2010 is somewhat thinner. The Bible-part has been removed to make production cheaper. As of June 2011 the Szenebibel costs 4.80 Euros, 2 Euros cheaper than the first edition. Some testimonies were removed, new ones were added, some articles were changed. Graphics and layout were still done sloppily. The basic style still is the same. It still contains may images stolen from the web ignoring the rights of the owners. <br />
<br />
ISBN: 978-3-86954-018-4, Lichtzeichen Verlag GmbH<br />
<br />
== Translations ==<br />
<br />
The book has been translated into several other languages including Czech (ISBN: 978-3-936-85030-7, Lichtzeichen Verlag GmbH), Romanian (ISBN: 978-3-936-85038-3, Lichtzeichen Verlag GmbH), Norwegian (ISBN: 978-82-7007-357-3, Norsk Bokforlag AS) and Russian (ISBN: 978-3-869-54002-3, Lichtzeichen Verlag GmbH). The original text has been sent to translators, the returning translation was forcefully crammed into the original layout with neither the author nor the graphics dude knowing the languages (except Norwegian which the author speaks). They, too, contain a lot of un-copyrighted material. Only the Russian version has been designed by a professional (cos I was sick and tired of doing hard work for free). I guess he's a pro, he works for the publisher. I don't have a copy myself to see if he did it any better.<br />
<br />
== Non-comprehensive list of similar projects by other organisations ==<br />
*Biker-Bibel<br />
*Kicker-Bibel<br />
*Sportler-Bibel<br />
*Polizei-Bibel<br />
(Damn, i threw them all away... I could do articles on them if I still had them. Well, shit happens...)<br />
<br />
== Internet ==<br />
<br />
As of June 2011 the first edition w/o the Gospel-part is available online here:<br />
<br />
http://jesusfamily-kreuzundquer.de/szenebibel/00inhalt/00inhalt.html <br />
<br />
If someone removes or changes the website, you can still find it here:<br />
<br />
http://liveweb.archive.org/http://www.jesusfamily-kreuzundquer.de/szenebibel/00inhalt/00inhalt.html <br />
<br />
The website has been done by a dilettante, too. He still uses frames which you won't see using this link. He didn't even copy-and-past in a script to load the frames. I do apologize for not doing my work properly. No, I'd rather apologize for doing it at all in the first place. Sorry! Countless people have been trapped by religion after reading it.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Books]] [[Category:Reviews]] [[Category:Propaganda]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=SzenebibelSzenebibel2011-06-10T15:54:17Z<p>Daskraut: just a little redirect</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[Kreuz und Quer in der Szene]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Der_GottesbeweisDer Gottesbeweis2011-06-10T15:50:46Z<p>Daskraut: Added category "Propaganda"</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Gottesbeweis.jpg|thumb|Right|Der Gottesbeweis]]<br />
<br />
'''"Der Gottesbeweis"''' is a 41 page evangelistical pamphlet by [[Kornelius Novak]] sold as paperback pocket book. It's primarily sold to Christians as [[propaganda]] material. The author attempts to prove the existence of God logically. AFAIK the book's title was "Der logische Gottesbeweis" earlier.<br />
<br />
== Summary and rebuttal ==<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*If we knew what the [[Bible]] really is we would read it all day long and not put it away again (chapter 1).<br />
*''“You are in error because you do not know the [[Scripture]]s or the power of [[God]]." (Matthew 22, 29)'' (page 6)}}<br />
<br />
'''Scriptures:''' Numerous people including me, [[Matt Dillahunty]] and many more (add your name here if you wish) all share the same experience: The more you read the Bible and the better you know it, the more obvious it's blatant [[contradictions]], factual errors, the barbaric and sadistic character and the fallibility of the god described therein become and the more it becomes obvious that the Bible can by no means be divinely inspired.<br />
<br />
'''Power of God:''' It can't be observed or measured. We only have anecdotal [[evidence]] and testimonies which doesn't count. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*When [[Jesus]] talks about Scriptures he talks about many books. The author points out that the Bible consists of 66 different books written by 40 different authors over a period of several thousand years in all kinds of places like palaces, prisons, on journeys through the desert etc. (page 7)}}<br />
<br />
The author fails to mention that 27 of the 66 books of the Bible are [[New Testament]] and didn't even exist in Jesus' times. When Jesus refers to "the Scriptures" he talks about the 39 books of the [[Old Testament]] and maybe the [[Apocrypha]], depending on which flavour of [[Christianity]] Jesus prefers. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The Bible is an enumeration of [[prophecy|prophecies]] and fulfilments. They are evidence for the existence of God (page 7).}}<br />
<br />
No, they don't. The only acceptable evidence for the Bible would be rock-solid extra-biblical facts like archaeological findings. Circular evidence and bronze age barbarians reinforcing each other's legends don't count. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The Bible contains 6408 verses of prophecy, 3268 of them have been fulfilled exactly, about half of them will be fulfilled in the end times. (Page 8)}}<br />
<br />
Fulfilled exactly – says who? Once again: The Bible. See above.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The fulfilment of prophecy can be examined scientifically. (pages 8 and 11) <br />
Please note: E-mail-correspondence with the author clarifies, that when he talks about "science" he also includes "spiritual sciences" which we would call "[[theology]]".}}<br />
<br />
Looking at the Bible from a theological point of view doesn't count as "scientific examination". The fulfilment of biblical prophecies doesn't stand up to real scientific scrutiny using e.g. archaeological methods. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Biblical prophecies come directly from God, extra-biblical prophecies don't. Example: [[Nostradamus]] (pages 9 – 10)}}<br />
<br />
All prophecy, clairvoyance and oracles are nonsense. None of these have ever been established to be reliable and neither has biblical prophecy.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Numerous scientists converted to Christianity. (page 11)<br />
*Example: The Soviet dictator [[Joseph Stalin]] asked "one of his best scientists" to prove the Bible wrong. He found Jesus in the process.}}<br />
<br />
Argumentum ad verecundiam aka [[argument from authority]] – who cares? <br />
<br />
Also: The author fails to name this "one of the best scientists" of Stalin presumably not knowing what he's writing about.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The author explains the "prophetic logic" using an example: [[Jeremiah]] prophesised 70 years of captivity in [[Babylon]] ({{Bible|Jeremiah 25}}). [[Daniel]] reads about Jeremiah's prophecy ({{Bible|Daniel 9}}), acts accordingly and the prophecy is being fulfilled as a result. (page 13)}}<br />
<br />
Once again: Biblical reports don't count as evidence. You could use the very same argument to affirm the [[Quran|Qu'ran]], the [[Bhagavad-Gita]] and all kinds of "holy books".<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The history of Tyrus has been fulfilled to the point thus being evidence for the validity of the Bible. }}<br />
<br />
It hasn't. It isn't. Here's an [[Tyre|analysis of Ezekiel's prophecies about Tyre]].<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Fulfilled prophecies are evidence for God (chapter 7)}}<br />
<br />
If there were any they would. However: There aren't any.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*[[Jesus]] himself fulfilled at least 330 prophecies (chapter 8)<br />
*The most important prophecy of all is Jesus' sacrificial death, prophesised in {{Bible|Isaiah 53}} (chapter 9)<br />
*Jesus fulfilled more than 30 prophecies on the [[cross]]. (page 26)<br />
*Jesus' [[resurrection]] is evidence for his godliness (page 31)}}<br />
<br />
Jesus' existence, miracles, crucifixion and resurrection are to be doubted. There are literally no reports about Jesus outside scripture (including non-canonical Gospels and other spiritual writings). These books themselves have been written many decades after the actual events. There are no eyewitness reports, no archaeological evidence, Jesus is not mentioned in any contemporary documents. What reason is there to even believe he existed?<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*We can observe the fulfilment of prophecies today (chapter 11).}}<br />
<br />
Oh yeah?<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text= *Worldwide expansion of Christianity}}<br />
<br />
Finally a hit! But: Many founders of many cults have prophesised that their religion would spread worldwide. Many sects and cults have disappeared again. Here we have a cult that managed to survive and spread and we immediately talk about fulfilled prophecy. Nice!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text= *Persecution of Christians}}<br />
<br />
Here comes the emotional part of the review: <br />
<br />
Persecution? What persecution? Here we have a perfect case of the Munchausen-Syndrome. Those countries persecuting Christians also persecute about anything else. It is just as dangerous to be Hindu or Buddhist in Islamic countries as it is to be Christian. Only our perception is distorted massively because nobody in the western world gives a crap about persecuted Hindus and Buddhists and everyone cries "they persecute Christians".<br />
<br />
It's the other way around. Look at the atrocities performed by Christians throughout history. ''The Christians'' performed the [[Crusade]]s, ''the Christians'' performed the [[Inquisition]], ''the Christians'' suppressed science threatening geniuses like [[Galileo Galilei]] with torture, death and hellfire. ''The Christians'' brought war, death and disease to the Americas almost eradicating the native population completely. It was ''a Christian'' who started World War II and tried to eradicate the Jews, exploiting their workforce in the process. You Christians even butcher each other - see [[Ireland]]. The list is endless and all of it happens ''in the name of God!'' <br />
<br />
Oh, I know, that was ''that other sect''. It's "that other sect" when it comes down to accepting responsibility - but it's "us" when we talk about statistics, ja? When suddenly 1/3 of the world population are Christians, ja?<br />
<br />
And look at the behaviour of Christian bullies in the USA today. They try to suppress gay marriage by attempting to ammend the constitution, they try to suppress real science in school and replace it with "[[Intelligent Design]]", they bomb abortion clinics, again: The list is endless!<br />
<br />
You don't get to cry "persecution" when officially sanctioned and led prayer is removed from school ''because it's unconstitutional''. You don't get to scream blue murder and "persecution" when Dr. [[Kent Hovind]] gets thrown in the slammer ''for tax fraud''. You don't get to lament "persecution" when a Catholic priest gets apprehended ''for molesting altar boys''. You don't get to yell "persecution" when the churches get cut down to size during the [[Age of Enlightenment]] in Europe. You're not being persecuted, you liar, we just defend ourselves against you persecuting us!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Example: Alleged report about the persecution of Christians and the current wave of conversion in China reported "recently in some socialist newspaper" (page 35)}}<br />
<br />
First of all the author fails to mention his source. Secondly China persecutes all kinds of political dissidents. If they also happen to be Christians – bad luck. They also censor the internet massively but Anon doesn't complain about persecution, now, does he?<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The author doesn't fail to mention eternal damnation in hell (page 36). Very shortly, but still...}}<br />
<br />
It would have been a real miracle if he didn't. [[Pascal's Wager]] all the way - someone call [[Jeff Dee]]!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The rest of the book is the usual give-your-life-to-Jesus-mumbo-jumbo and largely uninteresting. I didn't even bother to read that part, the headlines were enough.}}<br />
<br />
== Bottom line ==<br />
<br />
Most of the pamphlet employs the Bible as evidence for the Bible - [[circular reasoning]] deluxe! The few extra-biblical pieces of evidence he brings up can be and have been refuted numerous times. The author does not once provide any piece of evidence or sources that can be checked, but still he has the bowels to talk about science. <br />
<br />
'''''Book of Opinion, Chapter 1, Verse 1:''''' I don't expect much of a paperback pocket book but this pamphlet is a waste of paper and completely worthless. Good thing he gave it to me for free when he learned that I'm an atheist, bad thing that trees had to die for the paper!<br />
<br />
[[Category:Books]] [[Category:Propaganda]] [[Category:Reviews]] [[Category:Rebuttals]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Kreuz_und_Quer_in_der_SzeneKreuz und Quer in der Szene2011-06-10T15:45:54Z<p>Daskraut: Kreuz & Quer in der Szene, Christian propaganda</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Szenebibel.jpg|thumb|right|Kreuz & Quer in der Szene]]<br />
<br />
"Kreuz & Quer in der Szene", also referred to as the "Szenebibel", is an evangelistical pamphlet compiled by [[Kornelius Novak]]. It has been translated into several languages including Czech, Romanian, Norwegian and Russian. The Szenebibel is sold to [[Christian]]s and Christian organisations as propaganda material. It has been specifically designed as giveaway to proselytize among all different kinds of people like bikers, prison inmates, drug addicts, prostitutes and others, basically the easiest prey for rampant religious predators. Well, except for them bikers. They're pretty badass.<br />
<br />
== First edition ==<br />
<br />
The first edition was published in 2007 by the [[Lichtzeichen Verlag GmbH]] in Lange, Germany. It contained 20 [[Testimony|testimonies]] of people who converted to Christianity in times of severe hardship along with 14 articles by Kornelius Novak propagating his personal flavour of theology. All testimonies were commented on by the author. It also contained the Gospel according to [[John]], the translation used was the [[Schlachter]]-version which is easy to read and understand.<br />
<br />
Graphics and layout were done by an amateur and dilettante (I can tell, cos it was me. I apologize. Not for doing it badly, rather for doing it at all!). Many images contained in the Szenebibel were downloaded from the internet and used regardless of and ignoring possible copyright issues and the rights of the owners. None of them were ever asked for permission to use their work.<br />
<br />
ISBN: 978-936850-57-4, Lichtzeichen Verlag GmbH<br />
<br />
== Second edition ==<br />
<br />
The second edition published in 2010 is somewhat thinner. The Bible-part has been removed to make production cheaper. As of June 2011 the Szenebibel costs 4.80 Euros, 2 Euros cheaper than the first edition. Some testimonies were removed, new ones were added, some articles were changed. Graphics and layout were still done sloppily. The basic style still is the same. It still contains may images stolen from the web ignoring the rights of the owners. <br />
<br />
ISBN: 978-3-86954-018-4, Lichtzeichen Verlag GmbH<br />
<br />
== Translations ==<br />
<br />
The book has been translated into several other languages including Czech (ISBN: 978-3-936-85030-7, Lichtzeichen Verlag GmbH), Romanian (ISBN: 978-3-936-85038-3, Lichtzeichen Verlag GmbH), Norwegian (ISBN: 978-82-7007-357-3, Norsk Bokforlag AS) and Russian (ISBN: 978-3-869-54002-3, Lichtzeichen Verlag GmbH). The original text has been sent to translators, the returning translation was forcefully crammed into the original layout with neither the author nor the graphics dude knowing the languages (except Norwegian which the author speaks). They, too, contain a lot of un-copyrighted material. Only the Russian version has been designed by a professional (cos I was sick and tired of doing hard work for free). I guess he's a pro, he works for the publisher. I don't have a copy myself to see if he did it any better.<br />
<br />
== Non-comprehensive list of similar projects by other organisations ==<br />
*Biker-Bibel<br />
*Kicker-Bibel<br />
*Sportler-Bibel<br />
*Polizei-Bibel<br />
(Damn, i threw them all away... I could do articles on them if I still had them. Well, shit happens...)<br />
<br />
== Internet ==<br />
<br />
As of June 2011 the first edition w/o the Gospel-part is available online here:<br />
<br />
http://jesusfamily-kreuzundquer.de/szenebibel/00inhalt/00inhalt.html <br />
<br />
If someone removes or changes the website, you can still find it here:<br />
<br />
http://liveweb.archive.org/http://www.jesusfamily-kreuzundquer.de/szenebibel/00inhalt/00inhalt.html <br />
<br />
The website has been done by a dilettante, too. He still uses frames which you won't see using this link. He didn't even copy-and-past in a script to load the frames. I do apologize for not doing my work properly. No, I'd rather apologize for doing it at all in the first place. Sorry! Countless people have been trapped by religion after reading it.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Books]] [[Category:Reviews]] [[Category:Propaganda]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=File:Szenebibel.jpgFile:Szenebibel.jpg2011-06-10T15:32:20Z<p>Daskraut: Kreuz & Quer in der Szene, an evangelistical pamphlet.</p>
<hr />
<div>Kreuz & Quer in der Szene, an evangelistical pamphlet.</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=AsshatAsshat2011-06-09T18:22:25Z<p>Daskraut: Corrected bad grammar</p>
<hr />
<div>"Asshat", also known as "ass-hat", is one of the most favourite words on the [[Non-Prophets]].<br />
<br />
== Asshat drinking game ==<br />
<br />
Have a drink every time you hear the [[Non-Prophets]] say "asshat".<br />
<br />
== Infamous asshats ==<br />
<br />
*Dr. [[Kent Hovind|Can't Hovind]] (asshat deluxe)<br />
*[[Ted Haggard]] who also happens to be completely heterosexual.<br />
*Prof. Dr. Ing. [[Werner Gitt]]<br />
*[[Kornelius Novak]]<br />
<br />
== Non-Asshats ==<br />
<br />
*We, I guess...<br />
<br />
[[Category:Humor]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=AsshatAsshat2011-06-09T10:01:08Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>"Asshat", also known as "ass-hat", is one of the most favourite words on the [[Non-Prophets]].<br />
<br />
== Asshat drinking game ==<br />
<br />
Every time you hear the [[Non-Prophets]] say "asshat" have a drink.<br />
<br />
== Infamous asshats ==<br />
<br />
*Dr. [[Kent Hovind|Can't Hovind]] (asshat deluxe)<br />
*[[Ted Haggard]] who also happens to be completely heterosexual.<br />
*Prof. Dr. Ing. [[Werner Gitt]]<br />
*[[Kornelius Novak]]<br />
<br />
== Non-Asshats ==<br />
<br />
*We, I guess...<br />
<br />
[[Category:Humor]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=AsshatAsshat2011-06-09T09:59:52Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>"Asshat", also known as "ass-hat", is one of the most favourite words on the [[Non-Prophets]].<br />
<br />
== Asshat drinking game ==<br />
<br />
Every time you hear the [[Non-Prophets]] say "asshat" have a drink.<br />
<br />
== Infamous asshats ==<br />
<br />
*Dr. [[Kent Hovind|Can't Hovind]] (asshat deluxe)<br />
*[[Ted Haggard]] who also happens to be completely heterosexual.<br />
*Prof. Dr. Ing. [[Werner Gitt]]<br />
*[[Kornelius Novak]]<br />
<br />
== Non-Asshats ==<br />
<br />
*We, I guess...<br />
<br />
[[Category:Fun]] [[Category:Humor]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Der_GottesbeweisDer Gottesbeweis2011-06-09T09:58:31Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Gottesbeweis.jpg|thumb|Right|Der Gottesbeweis]]<br />
<br />
'''"Der Gottesbeweis"''' is a 41 page evangelistical pamphlet by [[Kornelius Novak]] sold as paperback pocket book. It's primarily sold to Christians as [[propaganda]] material. The author attempts to prove the existence of God logically. AFAIK the book's title was "Der logische Gottesbeweis" earlier.<br />
<br />
== Summary and rebuttal ==<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*If we knew what the [[Bible]] really is we would read it all day long and not put it away again (chapter 1).<br />
*''“You are in error because you do not know the [[Scripture]]s or the power of [[God]]." (Matthew 22, 29)'' (page 6)}}<br />
<br />
'''Scriptures:''' Numerous people including me, [[Matt Dillahunty]] and many more (add your name here if you wish) all share the same experience: The more you read the Bible and the better you know it, the more obvious it's blatant [[contradictions]], factual errors, the barbaric and sadistic character and the fallibility of the god described therein become and the more it becomes obvious that the Bible can by no means be divinely inspired.<br />
<br />
'''Power of God:''' It can't be observed or measured. We only have anecdotal [[evidence]] and testimonies which doesn't count. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*When [[Jesus]] talks about Scriptures he talks about many books. The author points out that the Bible consists of 66 different books written by 40 different authors over a period of several thousand years in all kinds of places like palaces, prisons, on journeys through the desert etc. (page 7)}}<br />
<br />
The author fails to mention that 27 of the 66 books of the Bible are [[New Testament]] and didn't even exist in Jesus' times. When Jesus refers to "the Scriptures" he talks about the 39 books of the [[Old Testament]] and maybe the [[Apocrypha]], depending on which flavour of [[Christianity]] Jesus prefers. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The Bible is an enumeration of [[prophecy|prophecies]] and fulfilments. They are evidence for the existence of God (page 7).}}<br />
<br />
No, they don't. The only acceptable evidence for the Bible would be rock-solid extra-biblical facts like archaeological findings. Circular evidence and bronze age barbarians reinforcing each other's legends don't count. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The Bible contains 6408 verses of prophecy, 3268 of them have been fulfilled exactly, about half of them will be fulfilled in the end times. (Page 8)}}<br />
<br />
Fulfilled exactly – says who? Once again: The Bible. See above.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The fulfilment of prophecy can be examined scientifically. (pages 8 and 11) <br />
Please note: E-mail-correspondence with the author clarifies, that when he talks about "science" he also includes "spiritual sciences" which we would call "[[theology]]".}}<br />
<br />
Looking at the Bible from a theological point of view doesn't count as "scientific examination". The fulfilment of biblical prophecies doesn't stand up to real scientific scrutiny using e.g. archaeological methods. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Biblical prophecies come directly from God, extra-biblical prophecies don't. Example: [[Nostradamus]] (pages 9 – 10)}}<br />
<br />
All prophecy, clairvoyance and oracles are nonsense. None of these have ever been established to be reliable and neither has biblical prophecy.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Numerous scientists converted to Christianity. (page 11)<br />
*Example: The Soviet dictator [[Joseph Stalin]] asked "one of his best scientists" to prove the Bible wrong. He found Jesus in the process.}}<br />
<br />
Argumentum ad verecundiam aka [[argument from authority]] – who cares? <br />
<br />
Also: The author fails to name this "one of the best scientists" of Stalin presumably not knowing what he's writing about.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The author explains the "prophetic logic" using an example: [[Jeremiah]] prophesised 70 years of captivity in [[Babylon]] ({{Bible|Jeremiah 25}}). [[Daniel]] reads about Jeremiah's prophecy ({{Bible|Daniel 9}}), acts accordingly and the prophecy is being fulfilled as a result. (page 13)}}<br />
<br />
Once again: Biblical reports don't count as evidence. You could use the very same argument to affirm the [[Quran|Qu'ran]], the [[Bhagavad-Gita]] and all kinds of "holy books".<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The history of Tyrus has been fulfilled to the point thus being evidence for the validity of the Bible. }}<br />
<br />
It hasn't. It isn't. Here's an [[Tyre|analysis of Ezekiel's prophecies about Tyre]].<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Fulfilled prophecies are evidence for God (chapter 7)}}<br />
<br />
If there were any they would. However: There aren't any.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*[[Jesus]] himself fulfilled at least 330 prophecies (chapter 8)<br />
*The most important prophecy of all is Jesus' sacrificial death, prophesised in {{Bible|Isaiah 53}} (chapter 9)<br />
*Jesus fulfilled more than 30 prophecies on the [[cross]]. (page 26)<br />
*Jesus' [[resurrection]] is evidence for his godliness (page 31)}}<br />
<br />
Jesus' existence, miracles, crucifixion and resurrection are to be doubted. There are literally no reports about Jesus outside scripture (including non-canonical Gospels and other spiritual writings). These books themselves have been written many decades after the actual events. There are no eyewitness reports, no archaeological evidence, Jesus is not mentioned in any contemporary documents. What reason is there to even believe he existed?<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*We can observe the fulfilment of prophecies today (chapter 11).}}<br />
<br />
Oh yeah?<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text= *Worldwide expansion of Christianity}}<br />
<br />
Finally a hit! But: Many founders of many cults have prophesised that their religion would spread worldwide. Many sects and cults have disappeared again. Here we have a cult that managed to survive and spread and we immediately talk about fulfilled prophecy. Nice!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text= *Persecution of Christians}}<br />
<br />
Here comes the emotional part of the review: <br />
<br />
Persecution? What persecution? Here we have a perfect case of the Munchausen-Syndrome. Those countries persecuting Christians also persecute about anything else. It is just as dangerous to be Hindu or Buddhist in Islamic countries as it is to be Christian. Only our perception is distorted massively because nobody in the western world gives a crap about persecuted Hindus and Buddhists and everyone cries "they persecute Christians".<br />
<br />
It's the other way around. Look at the atrocities performed by Christians throughout history. ''The Christians'' performed the [[Crusade]]s, ''the Christians'' performed the [[Inquisition]], ''the Christians'' suppressed science threatening geniuses like [[Galileo Galilei]] with torture, death and hellfire. ''The Christians'' brought war, death and disease to the Americas almost eradicating the native population completely. It was ''a Christian'' who started World War II and tried to eradicate the Jews, exploiting their workforce in the process. You Christians even butcher each other - see [[Ireland]]. The list is endless and all of it happens ''in the name of God!'' <br />
<br />
Oh, I know, that was ''that other sect''. It's "that other sect" when it comes down to accepting responsibility - but it's "us" when we talk about statistics, ja? When suddenly 1/3 of the world population are Christians, ja?<br />
<br />
And look at the behaviour of Christian bullies in the USA today. They try to suppress gay marriage by attempting to ammend the constitution, they try to suppress real science in school and replace it with "[[Intelligent Design]]", they bomb abortion clinics, again: The list is endless!<br />
<br />
You don't get to cry "persecution" when officially sanctioned and led prayer is removed from school ''because it's unconstitutional''. You don't get to scream blue murder and "persecution" when Dr. [[Kent Hovind]] gets thrown in the slammer ''for tax fraud''. You don't get to lament "persecution" when a Catholic priest gets apprehended ''for molesting altar boys''. You don't get to yell "persecution" when the churches get cut down to size during the [[Age of Enlightenment]] in Europe. You're not being persecuted, you liar, we just defend ourselves against you persecuting us!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Example: Alleged report about the persecution of Christians and the current wave of conversion in China reported "recently in some socialist newspaper" (page 35)}}<br />
<br />
First of all the author fails to mention his source. Secondly China persecutes all kinds of political dissidents. If they also happen to be Christians – bad luck. They also censor the internet massively but Anon doesn't complain about persecution, now, does he?<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The author doesn't fail to mention eternal damnation in hell (page 36). Very shortly, but still...}}<br />
<br />
It would have been a real miracle if he didn't. [[Pascal's Wager]] all the way - someone call [[Jeff Dee]]!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The rest of the book is the usual give-your-life-to-Jesus-mumbo-jumbo and largely uninteresting. I didn't even bother to read that part, the headlines were enough.}}<br />
<br />
== Bottom line ==<br />
<br />
Most of the pamphlet employs the Bible as evidence for the Bible - [[circular reasoning]] deluxe! The few extra-biblical pieces of evidence he brings up can be and have been refuted numerous times. The author does not once provide any piece of evidence or sources that can be checked, but still he has the bowels to talk about science. <br />
<br />
'''''Book of Opinion, Chapter 1, Verse 1:''''' I don't expect much of a paperback pocket book but this pamphlet is a waste of paper and completely worthless. Good thing he gave it to me for free when he learned that I'm an atheist, bad thing that trees had to die for the paper!<br />
<br />
[[Category:Books]] [[Category:Reviews]] [[Category:Rebuttals]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Der_GottesbeweisDer Gottesbeweis2011-06-09T09:18:55Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Gottesbeweis.jpg|thumb|Right|Der Gottesbeweis]]<br />
<br />
'''"Der Gottesbeweis"''' is a 41 page evangelistical pamphlet by [[Kornelius Novak]] sold as paperback pocket book. It's primarily sold to Christians as [[propaganda]] material. The author attempts to prove the existence of God logically. AFAIK the book's title was "Der logische Gottesbeweis" earlier.<br />
<br />
== Summary and rebuttal ==<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*If we knew what the [[Bible]] really is we would read it all day long and not put it away again (chapter 1).<br />
*''“You are in error because you do not know the [[Scripture]]s or the power of [[God]]." (Matthew 22, 29)'' (page 6)}}<br />
<br />
'''Scriptures:''' Numerous people including me, [[Matt Dillahunty]] and many more (add your name here if you wish) all share the same experience: The more you read the Bible and the better you know it, the more obvious it's blatant [[contradictions]], factual errors, the barbaric and sadistic character and the fallibility of the god described therein become and the more it becomes obvious that the Bible can by no means be divinely inspired.<br />
<br />
'''Power of God:''' It can't be observed or measured. We only have anecdotal [[evidence]] and testimonies which doesn't count. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*When [[Jesus]] talks about Scriptures he talks about many books. The author points out that the Bible consists of 66 different books written by 40 different authors over a period of several thousand years in all kinds of places like palaces, prisons, on journeys through the desert etc. (page 7)}}<br />
<br />
The author fails to mention that 27 of the 66 books of the Bible are [[New Testament]] and didn't even exist in Jesus' times. When Jesus refers to "the Scriptures" he talks about the 39 books of the [[Old Testament]] and maybe the [[Apocrypha]], depending on which flavour of [[Christianity]] Jesus prefers. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The Bible is an enumeration of [[prophecy|prophecies]] and fulfilments. They are evidence for the existence of God (page 7).}}<br />
<br />
No, they don't. The only acceptable evidence for the Bible would be rock-solid extra-biblical facts like archaeological findings. Circular evidence and bronze age barbarians reinforcing each other's legends don't count. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The Bible contains 6408 verses of prophecy, 3268 of them have been fulfilled exactly, about half of them will be fulfilled in the end times. (Page 8)}}<br />
<br />
Fulfilled exactly – says who? Once again: The Bible. See above.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The fulfilment of prophecy can be examined scientifically. (pages 8 and 11) <br />
Please note: E-mail-correspondence with the author clarifies, that when he talks about "science" he also includes "spiritual sciences" which we would call "[[theology]]".}}<br />
<br />
Looking at the Bible from a theological point of view doesn't count as "scientific examination". The fulfilment of biblical prophecies doesn't stand up to real scientific scrutiny using e.g. archaeological methods. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Biblical prophecies come directly from God, extra-biblical prophecies don't. Example: [[Nostradamus]] (pages 9 – 10)}}<br />
<br />
All prophecy, clairvoyance and oracles are nonsense. None of these have ever been established to be reliable and neither has biblical prophecy.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Numerous scientists converted to Christianity. (page 11)<br />
*Example: The Soviet dictator [[Joseph Stalin]] asked "one of his best scientists" to prove the Bible wrong. He found Jesus in the process.}}<br />
<br />
Argumentum ad verecundiam aka [[argument from authority]] – who cares? <br />
<br />
Also: The author fails to name this "one of the best scientists" of Stalin presumably not knowing what he's writing about.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The author explains the "prophetic logic" using an example: [[Jeremiah]] prophesised 70 years of captivity in [[Babylon]] ({{Bible|Jeremiah 25}}). [[Daniel]] reads about Jeremiah's prophecy ({{Bible|Daniel 9}}), acts accordingly and the prophecy is being fulfilled as a result. (page 13)}}<br />
<br />
Once again: Biblical reports don't count as evidence. You could use the very same argument to affirm the [[Qu'ran]], the [[Bhagavad-Gita]] and all kinds of "holy books".<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The history of Tyrus has been fulfilled to the point thus being evidence for the validity of the Bible. }}<br />
<br />
It hasn't. It isn't. Here's an [[Tyre|analysis of Ezekiel's prophecies about Tyre]].<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Fulfilled prophecies are evidence for God (chapter 7)}}<br />
<br />
If there were any they would. However: There aren't any.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*[[Jesus]] himself fulfilled at least 330 prophecies (chapter 8)<br />
*The most important prophecy of all is Jesus' sacrificial death, prophesised in {Bible|Isaiah 53} (chapter 9)<br />
*Jesus fulfilled more than 30 prophecies on the [[cross]]. (page 26)<br />
*Jesus' [[resurrection]] is evidence for his godliness (page 31)}}<br />
<br />
Jesus' existence, miracles, crucifixion and resurrection are to be doubted. There are literally no reports about Jesus outside scripture (including non-canonical Gospels and other spiritual writings). These books themselves have been written many decades after the actual events. There are no eyewitness reports, no archaeological evidence, Jesus is not mentioned in any contemporary documents. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*We can observe the fulfilment of prophecies today (chapter 11).}}<br />
<br />
Oh yeah?<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text= *Worldwide expansion of Christianity}}<br />
<br />
Finally a hit! But: Many founders of many cults have prophesised that their religion would spread worldwide. Many sects and cults have disappeared again. Here we have a cult that managed to survive and spread and we immediately talk about fulfilled prophecy. Nice!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text= *Persecution of Christians in general}}<br />
<br />
What persecution? Here we have a perfect case of the Munchausen-Syndrome. Those countries persecuting Christians also persecute about anything else. Example: It is just as dangerous to be Hindu or Buddhist in Islamic countries as it is to be Christian. Only our perception is distorted massively because nobody in the western world cares about persecuted Hindus and Buddhists.<br />
<br />
It's the other way around. Look at the atrocities performed by Christians throughout history. Look at the behaviour of Christian bullies in the USA today. <br />
<br />
You don't get to scream blue murder and persecution when Dr. [[Kent Hovind]] gets thrown in the slammer for tax fraud. You don't get to lament when a Catholic priest gets apprehended for molesting altar boys. You don't get to yell when the churches get cut down to size during the [[Age of Enlightenment]]. You're not being persecuted, we just defend ourselves against you persecuting us!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Example: Alleged report about the persecution of Christians and the current wave of conversion in China reported "recently in some socialist newspaper" (page 35)}}<br />
<br />
First of all the author fails to mention his source. Secondly China persecutes all kinds of political dissidents. If they also happen to be Christians – bad luck. They also censor the internet massively but Anon doesn't complain about persecution, now, does he?<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The author doesn't fail to mention eternal damnation in hell (page 36). Very shortly, but still...}}<br />
<br />
It would have been a real miracle if he didn't. [[Pascal's Wager]] all the way - someone call [[Jeff Dee]]!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The rest of the book is the usual give-your-life-to-Jesus-mumbo-jumbo and largely uninteresting. I didn't even bother to read that part.}}<br />
<br />
== Bottom line ==<br />
<br />
Most of the pamphlet employs the Bible as evidence for the Bible - [[Circular reasoning]] deluxe! The few extra-biblical pieces of evidence he brings up can be and have been refuted numerous times. The author does not once provide any piece of evidence or sources that can be checked, but still he has the bowels to speak about science. <br />
<br />
'''''Book of Opinion, Chapter 1, Verse 1:''''' I don't expect much of a paperback pocket book but this pamphlet is a waste of paper and completely worthless. Good thing he gave it to me for free when he learned that I'm an atheist!<br />
<br />
[[Category:Books]] [[Category:Reviews]] [[Category:Rebuttals]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Der_GottesbeweisDer Gottesbeweis2011-06-09T09:17:40Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Gottesbeweis.jpg|thumb|Right|Der Gottesbeweis]]<br />
<br />
'''"Der Gottesbeweis"''' is a 41 page evangelistical pamphlet by [[Kornelius Novak]] sold as paperback pocket book. It's primarily sold to Christians as [[propaganda]] material. The author attempts to prove the existence of God logically. AFAIK the book's title was "Der logische Gottesbeweis" earlier.<br />
<br />
== Summary and rebuttal ==<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*If we knew what the [[Bible]] really is we would read it all day long and not put it away again (chapter 1).<br />
*''“You are in error because you do not know the [[Scripture]]s or the power of [[God]]." (Matthew 22, 29)'' (page 6)}}<br />
<br />
'''Scriptures:''' Numerous people including me, [[Matt Dillahunty]] and many more (add your name here if you wish) all share the same experience: The more you read the Bible and the better you know it, the more obvious it's blatant [[contradictions]], factual errors, the barbaric and sadistic character and the fallibility of the god described therein become and the more it becomes obvious that the Bible can by no means be divinely inspired.<br />
<br />
'''Power of God:''' It can't be observed or measured. We only have anecdotal [[evidence]] and testimonies which doesn't count. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*When [[Jesus]] talks about Scriptures he talks about many books. The author points out that the Bible consists of 66 different books written by 40 different authors over a period of several thousand years in all kinds of places like palaces, prisons, on journeys through the desert etc. (page 7)}}<br />
<br />
The author fails to mention that 27 of the 66 books of the Bible are [[New Testament]] and didn't even exist in Jesus' times. When Jesus refers to "the Scriptures" he talks about the 39 books of the [[Old Testament]] and maybe the [[Apocrypha]], depending on which flavour of [[Christianity]] Jesus prefers. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The Bible is an enumeration of [[prophecy|prophecies]] and fulfilments. They are evidence for the existence of God (page 7).}}<br />
<br />
No, they don't. The only acceptable evidence for the Bible would be rock-solid extra-biblical facts like archaeological findings. Circular evidence and bronze age barbarians reinforcing each other's legends don't count. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The Bible contains 6408 verses of prophecy, 3268 of them have been fulfilled exactly, about half of them will be fulfilled in the end times. (Page 8)}}<br />
<br />
Fulfilled exactly – says who? Once again: The Bible. See above.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The fulfilment of prophecy can be examined scientifically. (pages 8 and 11) <br />
Please note: E-mail-correspondence with the author clarifies, that when he talks about "science" he also includes "spiritual sciences" which we would call "[[theology]]".}}<br />
<br />
Looking at the Bible from a theological point of view doesn't count as "scientific examination". The fulfilment of biblical prophecies doesn't stand up to real scientific scrutiny using e.g. archaeological methods. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Biblical prophecies come directly from God, extra-biblical prophecies don't. Example: [[Nostradamus]] (pages 9 – 10)}}<br />
<br />
All prophecy, clairvoyance and oracles are nonsense. None of these have ever been established to be reliable and neither has biblical prophecy.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Numerous scientists converted to Christianity. (page 11)<br />
*Example: The Soviet dictator [[Joseph Stalin]] asked "one of his best scientists" to prove the Bible wrong. He found Jesus in the process.}}<br />
<br />
Argumentum ad verecundiam aka [[argument from authority]] – who cares? <br />
Also: The author fails to name this "one of the best scientists" of Stalin presumably not knowing what he's writing about.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The author explains the "prophetic logic" using an example: [[Jeremiah]] prophesised 70 years of captivity in [[Babylon]] ({{Bible|Jeremiah 25}}). [[Daniel]] reads about Jeremiah's prophecy ({{Bible|Daniel 9}}), acts accordingly and the prophecy is being fulfilled as a result. (page 13)}}<br />
<br />
Once again: Biblical reports don't count as evidence. You could use the very same argument to affirm the [[Qu'ran]], the [[Bhagavad-Gita]] and all kinds of "holy books".<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The history of Tyrus has been fulfilled to the point thus being evidence for the validity of the Bible. }}<br />
<br />
It hasn't. It isn't. Here's an [[Tyre|analysis of Ezekiel's prophecies about Tyre]].<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Fulfilled prophecies are evidence for God (chapter 7)}}<br />
<br />
If there were any they would. However: There aren't any.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*[[Jesus]] himself fulfilled at least 330 prophecies (chapter 8)<br />
*The most important prophecy of all is Jesus' sacrificial death, prophesised in {Bible|Isaiah 53} (chapter 9)<br />
*Jesus fulfilled more than 30 prophecies on the [[cross]]. (page 26)<br />
*Jesus' [[resurrection]] is evidence for his godliness (page 31)}}<br />
<br />
Jesus' existence, miracles, crucifixion and resurrection are to be doubted. There are literally no reports about Jesus outside scripture (including non-canonical Gospels and other spiritual writings). These books themselves have been written many decades after the actual events. There are no eyewitness reports, no archaeological evidence, Jesus is not mentioned in any contemporary documents. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*We can observe the fulfilment of prophecies today (chapter 11).}}<br />
<br />
Oh yeah?<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text= *Worldwide expansion of Christianity}}<br />
<br />
Finally a hit! But: Many founders of many cults have prophesised that their religion would spread worldwide. Many sects and cults have disappeared again. Here we have a cult that managed to survive and spread and we immediately talk about fulfilled prophecy. Nice!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text= *Persecution of Christians in general}}<br />
<br />
What persecution? Here we have a perfect case of the Munchausen-Syndrome. Those countries persecuting Christians also persecute about anything else. Example: It is just as dangerous to be Hindu or Buddhist in Islamic countries as it is to be Christian. Only our perception is distorted massively because nobody in the western world cares about persecuted Hindus and Buddhists.<br />
<br />
It's the other way around. Look at the atrocities performed by Christians throughout history. Look at the behaviour of Christian bullies in the USA today. <br />
<br />
You don't get to scream blue murder and persecution when Dr. [[Kent Hovind]] gets thrown in the slammer for tax fraud. You don't get to lament when a Catholic priest gets apprehended for molesting altar boys. You don't get to yell when the churches get cut down to size during the [[Age of Enlightenment]]. You're not being persecuted, we just defend ourselves against you persecuting us!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Example: Alleged report about the persecution of Christians and the current wave of conversion in China reported "recently in some socialist newspaper" (page 35)}}<br />
<br />
First of all the author fails to mention his source. Secondly China persecutes all kinds of political dissidents. If they also happen to be Christians – bad luck. They also censor the internet massively but Anon doesn't complain about persecution, now, does he?<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The author doesn't fail to mention eternal damnation in hell (page 36). Very shortly, but still...}}<br />
<br />
It would have been a real miracle if he didn't. [[Pascal's Wager]] all the way - someone call [[Jeff Dee]]!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The rest of the book is the usual give-your-life-to-Jesus-mumbo-jumbo and largely uninteresting. I didn't even bother to read that part.}}<br />
<br />
== Bottom line ==<br />
<br />
Most of the pamphlet employs the Bible as evidence for the Bible - [[Circular reasoning]] deluxe! The few extra-biblical pieces of evidence he brings up can be and have been refuted numerous times. The author does not once provide any piece of evidence or sources that can be checked, but still he has the bowels to speak about science. <br />
<br />
'''''Book of Opinion, Chapter 1, Verse 1:''''' I don't expect much of a paperback pocket book but this pamphlet is a waste of paper and completely worthless. Good thing he gave it to me for free when he learned that I'm an atheist!<br />
<br />
[[Category:Books]] [[Category:Reviews]] [[Category:Rebuttals]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Jeff_DeeJeff Dee2011-06-09T08:38:52Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>Doesn't like Christians threatening him with [[hell]]. <br />
I'd call him "The Atheist Pitbull".<br />
<br />
Somebody write something!</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Category:RebuttalsCategory:Rebuttals2011-06-09T08:25:58Z<p>Daskraut: New category for rebuttals of whatever they bring on.</p>
<hr />
<div>Rebuttals</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Category:ReviewsCategory:Reviews2011-06-09T08:25:25Z<p>Daskraut: New category for reviews.</p>
<hr />
<div>Reviews of books, movies and everything else.</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Der_GottesbeweisDer Gottesbeweis2011-06-09T08:24:40Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Gottesbeweis.jpg|thumb|Right|Der Gottesbeweis]]<br />
<br />
'''"Der Gottesbeweis"''' is a 41 page evangelistical pamphlet by [[Kornelius Novak]] sold as paperback pocket book. It's primarily sold to Christians as [[propaganda]] material. The author attempts to prove the existence of God logically. AFAIK the book's title was "Der logische Gottesbeweis" earlier.<br />
<br />
== Summary and rebuttal ==<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*If we knew what the [[Bible]] really is we would read it all day long and not put it away again (chapter 1).<br />
*''“You are in error because you do not know the [[Scripture]]s or the power of [[God]]." (Matthew 22, 29)'' (page 6)}}<br />
<br />
'''Scriptures:''' Numerous people including me, [[Matt Dillahunty]] and many more (add your name here if you wish) all share the same experience: The more you read the Bible and the better you know it, the more obvious it's blatant [[contradictions]], factual errors, the barbaric and sadistic character and the fallibility of the god described therein become and the more it becomes obvious that the Bible can by no means be divinely inspired.<br />
<br />
'''Power of God:''' It can't be observed or measured. We only have anecdotal [[evidence]] and testimonies which doesn't count. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*When [[Jesus]] talks about Scriptures he talks about many books. The author points out that the Bible consists of 66 different books written by 40 different authors over a period of several thousand years in all kinds of places like palaces, prisons, on journeys through the desert etc. (page 7)}}<br />
<br />
The author fails to mention that 27 of the 66 books of the Bible are [[New Testament]] and didn't even exist in Jesus' times. When Jesus refers to "the Scriptures" he talks about the 39 books of the [[Old Testament]] and maybe the [[Apocrypha]], depending on which flavour of [[Christianity]] Jesus prefers. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The Bible is an enumeration of [[prophecy|prophecies]] and fulfilments. They are evidence for the existence of God (page 7).}}<br />
<br />
No, they don't. The only acceptable evidence for the Bible would be rock-solid extra-biblical facts like archaeological findings. Circular evidence and bronze age barbarians reinforcing each other's legends don't count. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The Bible contains 6408 verses of prophecy, 3268 of them have been fulfilled exactly, about half of them will be fulfilled in the end times. (Page 8)}}<br />
<br />
Fulfilled exactly – says who? Once again: The Bible. See above.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The fulfilment of prophecy can be examined scientifically. (pages 8 and 11) <br />
Please note: E-mail-correspondence with the author clarifies, that when he talks about "science" he also includes "spiritual sciences" which we would call "[[theology]]".}}<br />
<br />
Looking at the Bible from a theological point of view doesn't count as "scientific examination". The fulfilment of biblical prophecies doesn't stand up to real scientific scrutiny using e.g. archaeological methods. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Biblical prophecies come directly from God, extra-biblical prophecies don't. Example: [[Nostradamus]] (pages 9 – 10)}}<br />
<br />
All prophecy, clairvoyance and oracles are nonsense. None of these have ever been established to be reliable and neither has biblical prophecy.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Numerous scientists converted to Christianity. (page 11)}}<br />
<br />
Argumentum ad verecundiam aka [[argument from authority]] – who cares? <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The author explains the "prophetic logic" using an example: [[Jeremiah]] prophesised 70 years of captivity in [[Babylon]] ({{Bible|Jeremiah 25}}). [[Daniel]] reads about Jeremiah's prophecy ({{Bible|Daniel 9}}), acts accordingly and the prophecy is being fulfilled as a result. (page 13)}}<br />
<br />
Once again: Biblical reports don't count as evidence. You could use the very same argument to affirm the [[Qu'ran]], the [[Bhagavad-Gita]] and all kinds of "holy books".<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The history of Tyrus has been fulfilled to the point thus being evidence for the validity of the Bible. }}<br />
<br />
It hasn't. It isn't. Here's an [[Tyre|analysis of Ezekiel's prophecies about Tyre]].<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Fulfilled prophecies are evidence for God (chapter 7)}}<br />
<br />
If there were any they would. However: There aren't any.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*[[Jesus]] himself fulfilled at least 330 prophecies (chapter 8)<br />
*The most important prophecy of all is Jesus' sacrificial death, prophesised in {Bible|Isaiah 53} (chapter 9)<br />
*Jesus fulfilled more than 30 prophecies on the [[cross]]. (page 26)<br />
*Jesus' [[resurrection]] is evidence for his godliness (page 31)}}<br />
<br />
Jesus' existence, miracles, crucifixion and resurrection are to be doubted. There are literally no reports about Jesus outside scripture (including non-canonical Gospels and other spiritual writings). These books themselves have been written many decades after the actual events. There are no eyewitness reports, no archaeological evidence, Jesus is not mentioned in any contemporary documents. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*We can observe the fulfilment of prophecies today (chapter 11).}}<br />
<br />
Oh yeah?<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text= *Worldwide expansion of Christianity}}<br />
<br />
Finally a hit! But: Many founders of many cults have prophesised that their religion would spread worldwide. Many sects and cults have disappeared again. Here we have a cult that managed to survive and spread and we immediately talk about fulfilled prophecy. Nice!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text= *Persecution of Christians in general}}<br />
<br />
What persecution? Here we have a perfect case of the Munchausen-Syndrome. Those countries persecuting Christians also persecute about anything else. Example: It is just as dangerous to be Hindu or Buddhist in Islamic countries as it is to be Christian. Only our perception is distorted massively because nobody in the western world cares about persecuted Hindus and Buddhists.<br />
<br />
It's the other way around. Look at the atrocities performed by Christians throughout history. Look at the behaviour of Christian bullies in the USA today. <br />
<br />
You don't get to scream blue murder and persecution when Dr. [[Kent Hovind]] gets thrown in the slammer for tax fraud. You don't get to lament when a Catholic priest gets apprehended for molesting altar boys. You don't get to yell when the churches get cut down to size during the [[Age of Enlightenment]]. You're not being persecuted, we just defend ourselves against you persecuting us!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Example: Alleged report about the persecution of Christians and the current wave of conversion in China reported "recently in some socialist newspaper" (page 35)}}<br />
<br />
First of all the author fails to mention his source. Secondly China persecutes all kinds of political dissidents. If they also happen to be Christians – bad luck. They also censor the internet massively but Anon doesn't complain about persecution, now, does he?<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The author doesn't fail to mention eternal damnation in hell (page 36). Very shortly, but still...}}<br />
<br />
It would have been a real miracle if he didn't. [[Pascal's Wager]] all the way - someone call [[Jeff Dee]]!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The rest of the book is the usual give-your-life-to-Jesus-mumbo-jumbo and largely uninteresting. I didn't even bother to read that part.}}<br />
<br />
== Bottom line ==<br />
<br />
Most of the pamphlet employs the Bible as evidence for the Bible - [[Circular reasoning]] deluxe! The few extra-biblical pieces of evidence he brings up can be and have been refuted numerous times. The author does not once provide any piece of evidence or sources that can be checked, but still he has the bowels to speak about science. <br />
<br />
'''''Book of Opinion, Chapter 1, Verse 1:''''' I don't expect much of a paperback pocket book but this pamphlet is a waste of paper and completely worthless. Good thing he gave it to me for free when he learned that I'm an atheist!<br />
<br />
[[Category:Books]] [[Category:Reviews]] [[Category:Rebuttals]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Der_GottesbeweisDer Gottesbeweis2011-06-09T08:21:44Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Gottesbeweis.jpg|thumb|Right|Der Gottesbeweis]]<br />
<br />
'''"Der Gottesbeweis"''' is a 41 page evangelistical pamphlet by [[Kornelius Novak]] sold as paperback pocket book. It's primarily sold to Christians as [[propaganda]] material. The author attempts to prove the existence of God logically. AFAIK the book's title was "Der logische Gottesbeweis" earlier.<br />
<br />
== Summary and rebuttal ==<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*If we knew what the [[Bible]] really is we would read it all day long and not put it away again (chapter 1).<br />
*''“You are in error because you do not know the [[Scripture]]s or the power of [[God]]." (Matthew 22, 29)'' (page 6)}}<br />
<br />
'''Scriptures:''' Numerous people including me, [[Matt Dillahunty]] and many more (add your name here if you wish) all share the same experience: The more you read the Bible and the better you know it, the more obvious it's blatant [[contradictions]], factual errors, the barbaric and sadistic character and the fallibility of the god described therein become and the more it becomes obvious that the Bible can by no means be divinely inspired.<br />
<br />
'''Power of God:''' It can't be observed or measured. We only have anecdotal [[evidence]] and testimonies which doesn't count. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*When [[Jesus]] talks about Scriptures he talks about many books. The author points out that the Bible consists of 66 different books written by 40 different authors over a period of several thousand years in all kinds of places like palaces, prisons, on journeys through the desert etc. (page 7)}}<br />
<br />
The author fails to mention that 27 of the 66 books of the Bible are [[New Testament]] and didn't even exist in Jesus' times. When Jesus refers to "the Scriptures" he talks about the 39 books of the [[Old Testament]] and maybe the [[Apocrypha]], depending on which flavour of [[Christianity]] Jesus prefers. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The Bible is an enumeration of [[prophecy|prophecies]] and fulfilments. They are evidence for the existence of God (page 7).}}<br />
<br />
No, they don't. The only acceptable evidence for the Bible would be rock-solid extra-biblical facts like archaeological findings. Circular evidence and bronze age barbarians reinforcing each other's legends don't count. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The Bible contains 6408 verses of prophecy, 3268 of them have been fulfilled exactly, about half of them will be fulfilled in the end times. (Page 8)}}<br />
<br />
Fulfilled exactly – says who? Once again: The Bible. See above.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The fulfilment of prophecy can be examined scientifically. (pages 8 and 11) <br />
Please note: E-mail-correspondence with the author clarifies, that when he talks about "science" he also includes "spiritual sciences" which we would call "[[theology]]".}}<br />
<br />
Looking at the Bible from a theological point of view doesn't count as "scientific examination". The fulfilment of biblical prophecies doesn't stand up to real scientific scrutiny using e.g. archaeological methods. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Biblical prophecies come directly from God, extra-biblical prophecies don't. Example: [[Nostradamus]] (pages 9 – 10)}}<br />
<br />
All prophecy, clairvoyance and oracles are nonsense. None of these have ever been established to be reliable and neither has biblical prophecy.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Numerous scientists converted to Christianity. (page 11)}}<br />
<br />
Argumentum ad verecundiam aka [[argument from authority]] – who cares? <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The author explains the "prophetic logic" using an example: [[Jeremiah]] prophesised 70 years of captivity in [[Babylon]] ({{Bible|Jeremiah 25}}). [[Daniel]] reads about Jeremiah's prophecy ({{Bible|Daniel 9}}), acts accordingly and the prophecy is being fulfilled as a result. (page 13)}}<br />
<br />
Once again: Biblical reports don't count as evidence. You could use the very same argument to affirm the [[Qu'ran]], the [[Bhagavad-Gita]] and all kinds of "holy books".<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The history of Tyrus has been fulfilled to the point thus being evidence for the validity of the Bible. }}<br />
<br />
It hasn't. It isn't. Here's an [[Tyre|analysis of Ezekiel's prophecies about Tyre]].<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Fulfilled prophecies are evidence for God (chapter 7)}}<br />
<br />
If there were any they would. However: There aren't any.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*[[Jesus]] himself fulfilled at least 330 prophecies (chapter 8)<br />
*The most important prophecy of all is Jesus' sacrificial death, prophesised in {Bible|Isaiah 53} (chapter 9)<br />
*Jesus fulfilled more than 30 prophecies on the [[cross]]. (page 26)<br />
*Jesus' [[resurrection]] is evidence for his godliness (page 31)}}<br />
<br />
Jesus' existence, miracles, crucifixion and resurrection are to be doubted. There are literally no reports about Jesus outside scripture (including non-canonical Gospels and other spiritual writings). These books themselves have been written many decades after the actual events. There are no eyewitness reports, no archaeological evidence, Jesus is not mentioned in any contemporary documents. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*We can observe the fulfilment of prophecies today (chapter 11).}}<br />
<br />
Oh yeah?<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text= *Worldwide expansion of Christianity}}<br />
<br />
Finally a hit! But: Many founders of many cults have prophesised that their religion would spread worldwide. Many sects and cults have disappeared again. Here we have a cult that managed to survive and spread and we immediately talk about fulfilled prophecy. Nice!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text= *Persecution of Christians in general}}<br />
<br />
What persecution? Here we have a perfect case of the Munchausen-Syndrome. Those countries persecuting Christians also persecute about anything else. Example: It is just as dangerous to be Hindu or Buddhist in Islamic countries as it is to be Christian. Only our perception is distorted massively because nobody in the western world cares about persecuted Hindus and Buddhists.<br />
<br />
It's the other way around. Look at the atrocities performed by Christians throughout history. Look at the behaviour of Christian bullies in the USA today. <br />
<br />
You don't get to scream blue murder and persecution when Dr. [[Kent Hovind]] gets thrown in the slammer for tax fraud. You don't get to lament when a Catholic priest gets apprehended for molesting altar boys. You don't get to yell when the churches get cut down to size during the [[Age of Enlightenment]]. You're not being persecuted, we just defend ourselves against you persecuting us!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Example: Alleged report about the persecution of Christians and the current wave of conversion in China reported "recently in some socialist newspaper" (page 35)}}<br />
<br />
First of all the author fails to mention his source. Secondly China persecutes all kinds of political dissidents. If they also happen to be Christians – bad luck. They also censor the internet massively but Anon doesn't complain about persecution, now, does he?<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The author doesn't fail to mention eternal damnation in hell (page 36). Very shortly, but still...}}<br />
<br />
It would have been a real miracle if he didn't. [[Pascal's Wager]] all the way - someone call [[Jeff Dee]]!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The rest of the book is the usual give-your-life-to-Jesus-mumbo-jumbo and largely uninteresting. I didn't even bother to read that part.}}<br />
<br />
== Bottom line ==<br />
<br />
Most of the pamphlet employs the Bible as evidence for the Bible - [[Circular reasoning]] deluxe! The few extra-biblical pieces of evidence he brings up can be and have been refuted numerous times. The author does not once provide any piece of evidence or sources that can be checked, but still he has the bowels to speak about science. <br />
<br />
'''''Book of Opinion, Chapter 1, Verse 1:''''' I don't expect much of a paperback pocket book but this pamphlet is a waste of paper and completely worthless. Good thing he gave it to me for free when he learned that I'm an atheist!<br />
<br />
[[Category:Books, Reviews, Rebuttals]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Der_GottesbeweisDer Gottesbeweis2011-06-09T08:19:25Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Gottesbeweis.jpg|thumb|Right|Der Gottesbeweis]]<br />
<br />
'''"Der Gottesbeweis"''' is a 41 page evangelistical pamphlet by [[Kornelius Novak]] sold as paperback pocket book. It's primarily sold to Christians as [[propaganda]] material. The author attempts to prove the existence of God logically. AFAIK the book's title was "Der logische Gottesbeweis" earlier.<br />
<br />
== Summary and rebuttal ==<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*If we knew what the [[Bible]] really is we would read it all day long and not put it away again (chapter 1).<br />
*''“You are in error because you do not know the [[Scripture]]s or the power of [[God]]." (Matthew 22, 29)'' (page 6)}}<br />
<br />
'''Scriptures:''' Numerous people including me, [[Matt Dillahunty]] and many more (add your name here if you wish) all share the same experience: The more you read the Bible and the better you know it, the more obvious it's blatant [[contradictions]], factual errors, the barbaric and sadistic character and the fallibility of the god described therein become and the more it becomes obvious that the Bible can by no means be divinely inspired.<br />
<br />
'''Power of God:''' It can't be observed or measured. We only have anecdotal [[evidence]] and testimonies which doesn't count. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*When [[Jesus]] talks about Scriptures he talks about many books. The author points out that the Bible consists of 66 different books written by 40 different authors over a period of several thousand years in all kinds of places like palaces, prisons, on journeys through the desert etc. (page 7)}}<br />
<br />
The author fails to mention that 27 of the 66 books of the Bible are [[New Testament]] and didn't even exist in Jesus' times. When Jesus refers to "the Scriptures" he talks about the 39 books of the [[Old Testament]] and maybe the [[Apocrypha]], depending on which flavour of [[Christianity]] Jesus prefers. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The Bible is an enumeration of [[prophecy|prophecies]] and fulfilments. They are evidence for the existence of God (page 7).}}<br />
<br />
No, they don't. The only acceptable evidence for the Bible would be rock-solid extra-biblical facts like archaeological findings. Circular evidence and bronze age barbarians reinforcing each other's legends don't count. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The Bible contains 6408 verses of prophecy, 3268 of them have been fulfilled exactly, about half of them will be fulfilled in the end times. (Page 8)}}<br />
<br />
Fulfilled exactly – says who? Once again: The Bible. See above.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The fulfilment of prophecy can be examined scientifically. (pages 8 and 11) <br />
Please note: E-mail-correspondence with the author clarifies, that when he talks about "science" he also includes "spiritual sciences" which we would call "[[theology]]".}}<br />
<br />
Looking at the Bible from a theological point of view doesn't count as "scientific examination". The fulfilment of biblical prophecies doesn't stand up to real scientific scrutiny using e.g. archaeological methods. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Biblical prophecies come directly from God, extra-biblical prophecies don't. Example: [[Nostradamus]] (pages 9 – 10)}}<br />
<br />
All prophecy, clairvoyance and oracles are nonsense. None of these have ever been established to be reliable and neither has biblical prophecy.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Numerous scientists converted to Christianity. (page 11)}}<br />
<br />
Argumentum ad verecundiam aka [[argument from authority]] – who cares? <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The author explains the "prophetic logic" using an example: [[Jeremiah]] prophesised 70 years of captivity in [[Babylon]] ({{Bible|Jeremiah 25}}). [[Daniel]] reads about Jeremiah's prophecy ({{Bible|Daniel 9}}), acts accordingly and the prophecy is being fulfilled as a result. (page 13)}}<br />
<br />
Once again: Biblical reports don't count as evidence. You could use the very same argument to affirm the [[Qu'ran]], the [[Bhagavad-Gita]] and all kinds of "holy books".<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The history of Tyrus has been fulfilled to the point thus being evidence for the validity of the Bible. }}<br />
<br />
It hasn't. It isn't. Here's an [[Tyre|analysis of Ezekiel's prophecies about Tyre]].<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Fulfilled prophecies are evidence for God (chapter 7)}}<br />
<br />
If there were any they would. However: There aren't any.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*[[Jesus]] himself fulfilled at least 330 prophecies (chapter 8)<br />
*The most important prophecy of all is Jesus' sacrificial death, prophesised in {Bible|Isaiah 53} (chapter 9)<br />
*Jesus fulfilled more than 30 prophecies on the [[cross]]. (page 26)<br />
*Jesus' [[resurrection]] is evidence for his godliness (page 31)}}<br />
<br />
Jesus' existence, miracles, crucifixion and resurrection are to be doubted. There are literally no reports about Jesus outside scripture (including non-canonical Gospels and other spiritual writings). These books themselves have been written many decades after the actual events. There are no eyewitness reports, no archaeological evidence, Jesus is not mentioned in any contemporary documents. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*We can observe the fulfilment of prophecies today (chapter 11).}}<br />
<br />
Oh yeah?<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text= *Worldwide expansion of Christianity}}<br />
<br />
Finally a hit! But: Many founders of many cults have prophesised that their religion would spread worldwide. Many sects and cults have disappeared again. Here we have a cult that managed to survive and spread and we immediately talk about fulfilled prophecy. Nice!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text= *Persecution of Christians in general}}<br />
<br />
What persecution? Here we have a perfect case of the Munchausen-Syndrome. Those countries persecuting Christians also persecute about anything else. Example: It is just as dangerous to be Hindu or Buddhist in Islamic countries as it is to be Christian. Only our perception is distorted massively because nobody in the western world cares about persecuted Hindus and Buddhists.<br />
<br />
It's the other way around. Look at the atrocities performed by Christians throughout history. Look at the behaviour of Christian bullies in the USA today. <br />
<br />
You don't get to scream blue murder and persecution when Dr. [[Kent Hovind]] gets thrown in the slammer for tax fraud. You don't get to lament when a Catholic priest gets apprehended for molesting altar boys. You don't get to yell when the churches get cut down to size during the [[Age of Enlightenment]]. You're not being persecuted, we just defend ourselves against you persecuting us!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Example: Alleged report about the persecution of Christians and the current wave of conversion in China reported "recently in some socialist newspaper" (page 35)}}<br />
<br />
First of all the author fails to mention his source. Secondly China persecutes all kinds of political dissidents. If they also happen to be Christians – bad luck. They also censor the internet massively but Anon doesn't complain about persecution, now, does he?<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The author doesn't fail to mention eternal damnation in hell (page 36). Very shortly, but still...}}<br />
<br />
It would have been a real miracle if he didn't. [[Pascal's Wager]] all the way - someone call [[Jeff Dee]]!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The rest of the book is the usual give-your-life-to-Jesus-mumbo-jumbo and largely uninteresting. I didn't even bother to read that part.}}<br />
<br />
== Bottom line ==<br />
<br />
Most of the pamphlet employs the Bible as evidence for the Bible - [[Circular reasoning]] deluxe! The few extra-biblical pieces of evidence he brings up can be and have been refuted numerous times. The author does not once provide any piece of evidence or sources that can be checked, but still he has the bowels to speak about science. <br />
<br />
Book of Opinion, Chapter 1, Verse 1: I don't expect much of a paperback pocket book but this pamphlet is a waste of paper and completely worthless. Good thing he gave it to me for free when he learned that I'm an atheist!<br />
<br />
[[Category:Books, Reviews, Rebuttals]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Der_GottesbeweisDer Gottesbeweis2011-06-09T08:18:09Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Gottesbeweis.jpg|thumb|Right|Der Gottesbeweis]]<br />
<br />
'''"Der Gottesbeweis"''' is a 41 page evangelistical pamphlet by [[Kornelius Novak]] sold as paperback pocket book. It's primarily sold to Christians as [[propaganda]] material. The author attempts to prove the existence of God logically. AFAIK the book's title was "Der logische Gottesbeweis" earlier.<br />
<br />
== Summary and rebuttal ==<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*If we knew what the [[Bible]] really is we would read it all day long and not put it away again (chapter 1).<br />
*''“You are in error because you do not know the [[Scripture]]s or the power of [[God]]." (Matthew 22, 29)'' (page 6)}}<br />
<br />
'''Scriptures:''' Numerous people including me, [[Matt Dillahunty]] and many more (add your name here if you wish) all share the same experience: The more you read the Bible and the better you know it, the more obvious it's blatant [[contradictions]], factual errors, the barbaric and sadistic character and the fallibility of the god described therein become and the more it becomes obvious that the Bible can by no means be divinely inspired.<br />
<br />
'''Power of God:''' It can't be observed or measured. We only have anecdotal [[evidence]] and testimonies which doesn't count. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*When [[Jesus]] talks about Scriptures he talks about many books. The author points out that the Bible consists of 66 different books written by 40 different authors over a period of several thousand years in all kinds of places like palaces, prisons, on journeys through the desert etc. (page 7)}}<br />
<br />
The author fails to mention that 27 of the 66 books of the Bible are [[New Testament]] and didn't even exist in Jesus' times. When Jesus refers to "the Scriptures" he talks about the 39 books of the [[Old Testament]] and maybe the [[Apocrypha]], depending on which flavour of [[Christianity]] Jesus prefers. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The Bible is an enumeration of [[prophecy|prophecies]] and fulfilments. They are evidence for the existence of God (page 7).}}<br />
<br />
No, they don't. The only acceptable evidence for the Bible would be rock-solid extra-biblical facts like archaeological findings. Circular evidence and bronze age barbarians reinforcing each other's legends don't count. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The Bible contains 6408 verses of prophecy, 3268 of them have been fulfilled exactly, about half of them will be fulfilled in the end times. (Page 8)}}<br />
<br />
Fulfilled exactly – says who? Once again: The Bible. See above.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The fulfilment of prophecy can be examined scientifically. (pages 8 and 11) <br />
Please note: E-mail-correspondence with the author clarifies, that when he talks about "science" he also includes "spiritual sciences" which we would call "[[theology]]".}}<br />
<br />
Looking at the Bible from a theological point of view doesn't count as "scientific examination". The fulfilment of biblical prophecies doesn't stand up to real scientific scrutiny using e.g. archaeological methods. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Biblical prophecies come directly from God, extra-biblical prophecies don't. Example: [[Nostradamus]] (pages 9 – 10)}}<br />
<br />
All prophecy, clairvoyance and oracles are nonsense. None of these have ever been established to be reliable and neither has biblical prophecy.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Numerous scientists converted to Christianity. (page 11)}}<br />
<br />
Argument ad verecundiam aka [[argument from authority]] – who cares? <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The author explains the "prophetic logic" using an example: [[Jeremiah]] prophesised 70 years of captivity in [[Babylon]] ({{Bible|Jeremiah 25}}). [[Daniel]] reads about Jeremiah's prophecy ({{Bible|Daniel 9}}), acts accordingly and the prophecy is being fulfilled as a result. (page 13)}}<br />
<br />
Once again: Biblical reports don't count as evidence. You could use the very same argument to affirm the [[Qu'ran]], the [[Bhagavad-Gita]] and all kinds of "holy books".<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The history of Tyrus has been fulfilled to the point thus being evidence for the validity of the Bible. }}<br />
<br />
It hasn't. It isn't. Here's an [[Tyre|analysis of Ezekiel's prophecies about Tyre]].<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Fulfilled prophecies are evidence for God (chapter 7)}}<br />
<br />
If there were any they would. However: There aren't any.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*[[Jesus]] himself fulfilled at least 330 prophecies (chapter 8)<br />
*The most important prophecy of all is Jesus' sacrificial death, prophesised in {Bible|Isaiah 53} (chapter 9)<br />
*Jesus fulfilled more than 30 prophecies on the [[cross]]. (page 26)<br />
*Jesus' [[resurrection]] is evidence for his godliness (page 31)}}<br />
<br />
Jesus' existence, miracles, crucifixion and resurrection are to be doubted. There are literally no reports about Jesus outside scripture (including non-canonical Gospels and other spiritual writings). These books themselves have been written many decades after the actual events. There are no eyewitness reports, no archaeological evidence, Jesus is not mentioned in any contemporary documents. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*We can observe the fulfilment of prophecies today (chapter 11).}}<br />
<br />
Oh yeah?<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text= *Worldwide expansion of Christianity}}<br />
<br />
Finally a hit! But: Many founders of many cults have prophesised that their religion would spread worldwide. Many sects and cults have disappeared again. Here we have a cult that managed to survive and spread and we immediately talk about fulfilled prophecy. Nice!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text= *Persecution of Christians in general}}<br />
<br />
What persecution? Here we have a perfect case of the Munchausen-Syndrome. Those countries persecuting Christians also persecute about anything else. Example: It is just as dangerous to be Hindu or Buddhist in Islamic countries as it is to be Christian. Only our perception is distorted massively because nobody in the western world cares about persecuted Hindus and Buddhists.<br />
<br />
It's the other way around. Look at the atrocities performed by Christians throughout history. Look at the behaviour of Christian bullies in the USA today. <br />
<br />
You don't get to scream blue murder and persecution when Dr. [[Kent Hovind]] gets thrown in the slammer for tax fraud. You don't get to lament when a Catholic priest gets apprehended for molesting altar boys. You don't get to yell when the churches get cut down to size during the [[Age of Enlightenment]]. You're not being persecuted, we just defend ourselves against you persecuting us!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Example: Alleged report about the persecution of Christians and the current wave of conversion in China reported "recently in some socialist newspaper" (page 35)}}<br />
<br />
First of all the author fails to mention his source. Secondly China persecutes all kinds of political dissidents. If they also happen to be Christians – bad luck. They also censor the internet massively but Anon doesn't complain about persecution, now, does he?<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The author doesn't fail to mention eternal damnation in hell (page 36). Very shortly, but still...}}<br />
<br />
It would have been a real miracle if he didn't. [[Pascal's Wager]] all the way - someone call [[Jeff Dee]]!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The rest of the book is the usual give-your-life-to-Jesus-mumbo-jumbo and largely uninteresting. I didn't even bother to read that part.}}<br />
<br />
== Bottom line ==<br />
<br />
Most of the pamphlet employs the Bible as evidence for the Bible - [[Circular reasoning]] deluxe! The few extra-biblical pieces of evidence he brings up can be and have been refuted numerous times. The author does not once provide any piece of evidence or sources that can be checked, but still he has the bowels to speak about science. <br />
<br />
Book of Opinion, Chapter 1, Verse 1: I don't expect much of a paperback pocket book but this pamphlet is a waste of paper and completely worthless. Good thing he gave it to me for free when he learned that I'm an atheist!<br />
<br />
[[Category:Books, Reviews, Rebuttals]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Der_GottesbeweisDer Gottesbeweis2011-06-09T08:05:56Z<p>Daskraut: Book Review: Kornelius Novak - Der Gottesbeweis</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Gottesbeweis.jpg|thumb|Right|Der Gottesbeweis]]<br />
<br />
'''"Der Gottesbeweis"''' is a 41 page evangelistical pamphlet by [[Kornelius Novak]] sold as paperback pocket book. <br />
<br />
== Summary and rebuttal ==<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*If we knew what the [[Bible]] really is we would read it all day long and not put it away again (chapter 1).<br />
*''“You are in error because you do not know the [[Scripture]]s or the power of [[God]]." (Matthew 22, 29)'' (page 6)}}<br />
<br />
Scriptures: Numerous people including me, [[Matt Dillahunty]] and many more (add your name here if you wish) all share the same experience: The more you read the Bible and the better you know it, the more obvious it's blatant [[contradictions]] and factual errors, the barbaric and sadistic character and the fallibility of the god described therein become and the more it becomes obvious that the Bible can by no means be divinely inspired.<br />
<br />
Power of God: It can't be observed or measured. We only have anecdotal [[evidence]] and testimonies which doesn't count. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*When [[Jesus]] talks about Scriptures he talks about many books. The author points out that the Bible consists of 66 different books written by 40 different authors over a period of several thousand years in all kinds of places like palaces, prisons, on journeys through the desert etc. (page 7)}}<br />
<br />
The author fails to mention that 27 of the 66 books of the Bible are [[New Testament]] and didn't even exist in Jesus' times. When Jesus refers to "the Scriptures" he talks about the 39 books of the [[Old Testament]] and maybe the [[Apocrypha]], depending on which flavour of [[Christianity]] Jesus prefers. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The Bible is an enumeration of [[prophecy|prophecies]] and fulfilments. They are evidence for the existence of God (page 7).}}<br />
<br />
No, they don't. The only acceptable evidence for the Bible would be rock-solid extra-biblical facts like archaeological findings. Circular evidence and bronze age barbarians reinforcing each other's legends don't count. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The Bible contains 6408 verses of prophecy, 3268 of them have been fulfilled exactly, about half of them will be fulfilled in the end times. (Page 8)}}<br />
<br />
Fulfilled exactly – says who? Once again: The Bible. See above.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The fulfilment of prophecy can be examined scientifically. (pages 8 and 11) <br />
Please note: E-mail-correspondence with the author clarifies, that when he talks about "science" he also includes "spiritual sciences" which we would call "[[theology]]".}}<br />
<br />
Looking at the Bible from a theological point of view doesn't count as "scientific examination". The fulfilment of biblical prophecies doesn't stand up to real scientific scrutiny using e.g. archaeological methods. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Biblical prophecies come directly from God, extra-biblical prophecies don't. Example: [[Nostradamus]] (pages 9 – 10)}}<br />
<br />
All prophecy, clairvoyance and oracles are nonsense. None of these have ever been established to be reliable and neither has biblical prophecy.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Numerous scientists converted to Christianity. (page 11)}}<br />
<br />
Argument ad verecundiam aka [[argument from authority]] – who cares? <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The author explains the "prophetic logic" using an example: [[Jeremiah]] prophesised 70 years of captivity in [[Babylon]] ({{Bible|Jeremiah 25:11}}). [[Daniel]] reads about Jeremiah's prophecy ({{Bible|Daniel 9}}), acts accordingly and the prophecy is being fulfilled as a result. (page 13)}}<br />
<br />
Once again: Biblical reports don't count as evidence. You could use the very same argument to affirm the [[Qu'ran]], the [[Bhagavad-Gita]] and all kinds of "holy books".<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The history of Tyrus has been fulfilled to the point thus being evidence for the validity of the Bible. }}<br />
<br />
It hasn't. It isn't. Here's an [[Tyre|analysis of Ezekiel's prophecies about Tyre]].<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Fulfilled prophecies are evidence for God (chapter 7)}}<br />
<br />
If there were any they would. However: There aren't any.<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*[[Jesus]] himself fulfilled at least 330 prophecies (chapter 8)<br />
*The most important prophecy of all is Jesus' sacrificial death, prophesised in {Bible|Isaiah 53} (chapter 9)<br />
*Jesus fulfilled more than 30 prophecies on the [[cross]]. (page 26)<br />
*Jesus' [[resurrection]] is evidence for his godliness (page 31)}}<br />
<br />
Jesus' existence, miracles, crucifixion and resurrection are to be doubted. There are literally no reports about Jesus outside scripture (including non-canonical Gospels and other spiritual writings). These books themselves have been written many decades after the actual events. There are no eyewitness reports, no archaeological evidence, Jesus is not mentioned in any contemporary documents. <br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*We can observe the fulfilment of prophecies today (chapter 11).}}<br />
<br />
Oh yeah?<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text= *Worldwide expansion of Christianity}}<br />
<br />
Finally a hit! But: Many founders of many cults have prophesised that their religion would spread worldwide. Many sects and cults have disappeared again. Here we have a cult that managed to survive and spread and we immediately talk about fulfilled prophecy. Nice!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text= *Persecution of Christians in general}}<br />
<br />
What persecution? Here we have a perfect case of the Munchausen-Syndrome. Those countries persecuting Christians also persecute about anything else. Example: It is just as dangerous to be Hindu or Buddhist in Islamic countries as it is to be Christian. Only our perception is distorted massively because nobody in the western world cares about persecuted Hindus and Buddhists.<br />
<br />
It's the other way around. Look at the atrocities performed by Christians throughout history. Look at the behaviour of Christian bullies in the USA today. <br />
<br />
You don't get to scream blue murder and persecution when Dr. [[Kent Hovind]] gets thrown in the slammer for tax fraud. You don't get to lament when a Catholic priest gets apprehended for molesting altar boys. You don't get to yell when the churches get cut down to size during the [[Age of Enlightenment]]. You're not being persecuted, we just defend ourselves against you persecuting us!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*Example: Alleged report about the persecution of Christians and the current wave of conversion in China reported "recently in some socialist newspaper" (page 35)}}<br />
<br />
First of all the author fails to mention his source. Secondly China persecutes all kinds of political dissidents. If they also happen to be Christians – bad luck. They also censor the internet massively but Anon doesn't complain about persecution, now, does he?<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The author doesn't fail to mention eternal damnation in hell (page 36). Very shortly, but still...}}<br />
<br />
It would have been a real miracle if he didn't. [[Pascal's Wager]] all the way - someone call [[Jeff Dee]]!<br />
<br />
{{Comment-box1|lmargin=30px|text=*The rest of the book is the usual give-your-life-to-Jesus-mumbo-jumbo and largely uninteresting. I didn't even bother to read that part.}}<br />
<br />
== Bottom line ==<br />
<br />
Most of the pamphlet employs the Bible as evidence for the Bible - [[Circular reasoning]] deluxe! The few extra-biblical pieces of evidence he brings up can be and have been refuted numerous times. Generally speaking: The pamphlet is a waste of paper and completely worthless.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Books, Reviews, Rebuttals]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=File:Gottesbeweis.jpgFile:Gottesbeweis.jpg2011-06-09T08:03:29Z<p>Daskraut: Kornelius Novak - Der Gottesbeweis</p>
<hr />
<div>Kornelius Novak - Der Gottesbeweis</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Kornelius_NovakKornelius Novak2011-06-09T05:27:55Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>Kornelius "Mondo" Novak is a German evangelist of Romanian origin. He is the founder and former president of the of the [[Holy Riders MC]] chapter Germany, an evangelistical motorcycle club originally founded in Norway. <br />
<br />
== Life ==<br />
<br />
[[Image:Novak.jpg|thumb|right|Kornelius "Mondo" Novak]]<br />
<br />
In his youth Kornelius Novak was a promising bodybuilder and achieved national vice-championship in his category (youth, heavy-weight). He used to work as bouncer for discos in and around Stuttgart, Baden-Württemberg. A disturbing event caused him to develop a fundamental belief in God: God reportedly prevented a dangerous fight involving knives and brass knuckles.<br />
<br />
He studied theology and graduated with a master's degree. He became a pastor like his father Adolf Novak. He worked as pastor in a Baptist church in Göppingen, Baden-Württemberg and worked as a motorcycle missionary.<br />
<br />
During his time as president of the Holy Riders MC chapter Germany he did extensive missionary work among bikers like the Hells Angels MC and could be met on many of the major motorcycle rallies. He was excluded from the club when he tried to restructure the chapter to no longer evangelize among motorcyclists only. <br />
<br />
The Holy Riders MC chapter Germany's big slogan is "TURN OR BURN". Their annual motorcycle rally is named "Turn or Burn Rally", actively promoting [[Pascal's Wager]].<br />
<br />
After his exclusion from the Holy Riders MC he founded the Jesus Family, a similar but largely unsuccessful project that was set out to evangelize among all kinds of different subcultures including bikers, prostitutes, drug addicts etc. The Jesus Family no longer exists.<br />
<br />
Kornelius Novak wrote a number of evangelistical tracts and pamphlets. His most notable project is the book Kreuz & Quer in der Szene, which has been published in several different languages including German, Norwegian, Czech, and Romanian. He also published a glossy magazine named "Kreuz und Quer" to inform people about his work and – of course – raise funds for his work. The Kreuz-und-Quer-Book and all 10 editions of his magazine can be read on and downloaded from his website.<br />
<br />
As of 2011 Kornelius Novak lives in northern Norway where he works as a pastor and missionary. He still is active in other countries like the Czech Republic once in a while. <br />
<br />
== Criticism ==<br />
<br />
Kornelius Novak is a hypocrite [[asshat]]. Despite of actively promoting [[self-denial]] as a major factor in religious life, he used to drive large pick-up trucks, a type of vehicle not very common in Germany, sporting religious slogans painted all over the vehicle. He also owns a large and expensive Harley Davidson E-Glide. Like most evangelistic asshats he gloats about his total obedience to his god and his in-depth knowledge and understanding of the [[Bible]] being the main reason for his alleged success while ignoring major failures like his exclusion from the Holy Riders MC, the Jesus Family barrel burst and constant problems with breaking down vehicles.<br />
<br />
His most disputable statement was that [[Adolf Hitler]] and the Nazis executed god's judgement on the Jews as prophesised in {{Bible|Jeremiah 9:16}} and {{Bible|Ezekiel 5:12}}. He no longer actively promotes this allegation.<br />
<br />
== Books ==<br />
<br />
*[[Kreuz und Quer in der Szene]]<br />
*[[Der Gottesbeweis]]<br />
*Gottes Gerechtigkeit - Gericht und Gnade<br />
*Göttliche Heilung - Was sagt die Bibel dazu?<br />
*22 Bedeutungen des Kreuzes für das Glaubensleben<br />
*Geistestaufe - Wiedergeburt - Bekehrung<br />
*Der Glaubensquotient<br />
*Heilsnotwendige Taufe<br />
*Gott, wie kannst du gerecht sein?<br />
*Gott und dein freier Wille<br />
*Gott liebt dich trotzdem!<br />
*Heiligung<br />
*Weltwunder Gemeinde<br />
*Wiedergeboren und doch verloren?<br />
*Prinzipen erhörter Gebete - Betend zur Erweckung<br />
<br />
== Links ==<br />
*Kornelius Novak's website: http://www.jesusfamily-kreuzundquer.de<br />
<br />
[[Category:People]] [[Category:Evangelists]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Holy_Riders_MCHoly Riders MC2011-06-09T05:25:39Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:TurnOrBurn2010.jpg|thumb|right|Turn or Burn Rally 2010]]<br />
<br />
The Holy Riders MC is an evangelistical motorcycle club founded in Norway.<br />
<br />
The German chapter was founded by [[Kornelius Novak]]. The Holy Riders MC chapter Germany openly promotes [[Pascal's Wager]] with their slogan "TURN OR BURN". Their annual motorcycle rally is named "Turn or Burn Rally".<br />
<br />
More info soon.<br />
<br />
== Links ==<br />
*Holy Riders MC Norwegian website: http://www.holyriders.no<br />
*Holy Riders MC chapter Germany: http://www.holyriders.de<br />
<br />
[[Category:Organizations]]</div>Daskrauthttp://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=AsshatAsshat2011-06-09T05:23:55Z<p>Daskraut: </p>
<hr />
<div>"Asshat", also known as "ass-hat", is one of the most favourite words on the [[Non-Prophets]].<br />
<br />
== Asshat drinking game ==<br />
<br />
Every time you hear the [[Non-Prophets]] say "asshat" have a drink.<br />
<br />
== Infamous asshats ==<br />
<br />
*Dr. [[Kent Hovind]] (asshat deluxe)<br />
*[[Ted Haggard]] who also happens to be completely heterosexual.<br />
*Prof. Dr. Ing. [[Werner Gitt]]<br />
*[[Kornelius Novak]]<br />
<br />
== Non-Asshats ==<br />
<br />
*We, I guess...<br />
<br />
[[Category:Fun]] [[Category:Humor]]</div>Daskraut