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		<updated>2013-05-24T08:38:06Z</updated>
		<subtitle>User contributions</subtitle>
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	<entry>
		<id>http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Talk:The_Church_of_the_Latter-Day_Dude</id>
		<title>Talk:The Church of the Latter-Day Dude</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Talk:The_Church_of_the_Latter-Day_Dude"/>
				<updated>2011-12-10T14:31:29Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Arno Matthias: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Arno, I'm gonna make this real simple.  If you try to revert the category again you'll be banned.  --[[User:Kazim|Kazim]] 10:18, 9 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
:Perhaps you have the mercy to explain why you claim this to be a satirical religion, when it is not? [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 15:03, 9 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
::Well for starters, it's a religion based on a freaking comedy movie which is explicit fiction.  If you claim that it's not a satirical religion then explain it to me in a way that doesn't also change the categorization of Pastafarianism.  --[[User:Kazim|Kazim]] 15:21, 9 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Why am I responsible for filling your gaps of knowledge? Do your own research! Well, allright then: although the movie has a lot of funny moments, the religion is based not on them, but on the philosophy oh the Dude, which is not funny or meant to be funny. This religion was invented to provide real, serious guidance to its followers. The FSM on the other was invented in an act of self-defence, when Henderson's children were in danger of being taught ID. This religion was invented (exactly like Russell's teapot) to highlight the difference between knowledge and faith. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 08:31, 10 December 2011 (CST)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Arno Matthias</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Talk:The_Church_of_the_Latter-Day_Dude</id>
		<title>Talk:The Church of the Latter-Day Dude</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Talk:The_Church_of_the_Latter-Day_Dude"/>
				<updated>2011-12-09T21:03:58Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Arno Matthias: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Arno, I'm gonna make this real simple.  If you try to revert the category again you'll be banned.  --[[User:Kazim|Kazim]] 10:18, 9 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
:Perhaps you have the mercy to explain why you claim this to be a satirical religion, when it is not? [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 15:03, 9 December 2011 (CST)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Arno Matthias</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=The_Church_of_the_Latter-Day_Dude</id>
		<title>The Church of the Latter-Day Dude</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=The_Church_of_the_Latter-Day_Dude"/>
				<updated>2011-12-09T15:49:43Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Arno Matthias: I am a priest of this religion myself and I assure you that we don't mean it satirically&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:Dudeism100.jpeg|thumb|the Dudeism logo]]&lt;br /&gt;
'''The Church of the Latter-Day Dude''', or '''Dudeism''' for short, is a religion based on the film ''The Big Lebowski''. The name is styled after ''The Church of the Latter-Day Saints'', or ''[[Mormonism]]'' for short, while the philosophy is quite similar to [[Taoism]]. Their motto is &amp;quot;Just take it easy, man!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Origins==&lt;br /&gt;
The religion was founded in 2005 by journalist Oliver Benjamin, now the Dudely Lama. He was a stationed in Thailand, when he saw the 1998 Coen Brothers film &amp;quot;The Big Lebowski&amp;quot;. Its main character, played by Jeff Bridges, is called &amp;quot;the Dude&amp;quot;, and he personifies the ideals of ''The Church of the Latter-Day Dude''. His favourite past-time is bowling, which is reflected in the Dudeism logo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The Priesthood==&lt;br /&gt;
Everybody can become an ordained dudeist priest online. Dudeist priests can preside over religious ceremonies like weddings and funerals, if accredited by local authorities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.dudeism.com Dudeism, Your Answer for Everything] Official website of Dudeism&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.cnngo.com/bangkok/life/doctrine-chiang-mais-church-latter-day-dude-explained-206793 CNN-report on Oliver Benjamin]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Religions]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Arno Matthias</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=The_Church_of_the_Latter-Day_Dude</id>
		<title>The Church of the Latter-Day Dude</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=The_Church_of_the_Latter-Day_Dude"/>
				<updated>2011-12-09T12:55:17Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Arno Matthias: sorry, in this instance it's serious&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:Dudeism100.jpeg|thumb|the Dudeism logo]]&lt;br /&gt;
'''The Church of the Latter-Day Dude''', or '''Dudeism''' for short, is a religion based on the film ''The Big Lebowski''. The name is styled after ''The Church of the Latter-Day Saints'', or ''[[Mormonism]]'' for short, while the philosophy is quite similar to Daoism. Their motto is &amp;quot;Just take it easy, man!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Origins==&lt;br /&gt;
The religion was founded in 2005 by journalist Oliver Benjamin, now the Dudely Lama. He was a stationed in Thailand, when he saw the 1998 Coen Brothers film &amp;quot;The Big Lebowski&amp;quot;. Its main character, played by Jeff Bridges, is called &amp;quot;the Dude&amp;quot;, and he personifies the ideals of ''The Church of the Latter-Day Dude''. His favourite past-time is bowling, which is reflected in the Dudeism logo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The Priesthood==&lt;br /&gt;
Everybody can become an ordained dudeist priest online. Dudeist priests can preside over religious ceremonies like weddings and funerals, if accredited by local authorities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.dudeism.com Dudeism, Your Answer for Everything] Official website of Dudeism&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.cnngo.com/bangkok/life/doctrine-chiang-mais-church-latter-day-dude-explained-206793 CNN-report on Oliver Benjamin]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Religions]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Arno Matthias</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Dudeism</id>
		<title>Dudeism</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Dudeism"/>
				<updated>2011-12-09T11:42:28Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Arno Matthias: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;#redirect [[The Church of the Latter-Day Dude]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Arno Matthias</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=The_Church_of_the_Latter-Day_Dude</id>
		<title>The Church of the Latter-Day Dude</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=The_Church_of_the_Latter-Day_Dude"/>
				<updated>2011-12-09T11:33:04Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Arno Matthias: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:Dudeism100.jpeg|thumb|the Dudeism logo]]&lt;br /&gt;
'''The Church of the Latter-Day Dude''', or '''Dudeism''' for short, is a religion based on the film ''The Big Lebowski''. The name is styled after ''The Church of the Latter-Day Saints'', or ''[[Mormonism]]'' for short, while the philosophy is quite similar to Daoism. Their motto is &amp;quot;Just take it easy, man!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Origins==&lt;br /&gt;
The religion was founded in 2005 by journalist Oliver Benjamin, now the Dudely Lama. He was a stationed in Thailand, when he saw the 1998 Coen Brothers film &amp;quot;The Big Lebowski&amp;quot;. Its main character, played by Jeff Bridges, is called &amp;quot;the Dude&amp;quot;, and he personifies the ideals of ''The Church of the Latter-Day Dude''. His favourite past-time is bowling, which is reflected in the Dudeism logo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The Priesthood==&lt;br /&gt;
Everybody can become an ordained dudeist priest online. Dudeist priests can preside over religious ceremonies like weddings and funerals, if accredited by local authorities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*www.dudeism.com&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.cnngo.com/bangkok/life/doctrine-chiang-mais-church-latter-day-dude-explained-206793 CNN-report on Oliver Benjamin]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category: Religions]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Arno Matthias</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=File:Dudeism100.jpeg</id>
		<title>File:Dudeism100.jpeg</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=File:Dudeism100.jpeg"/>
				<updated>2011-12-09T11:11:20Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Arno Matthias: symbol of the Church of the Latter-Day Dude&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;symbol of the Church of the Latter-Day Dude&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Arno Matthias</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Great_Green_Arkleseizure</id>
		<title>Great Green Arkleseizure</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Great_Green_Arkleseizure"/>
				<updated>2011-12-09T11:03:04Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Arno Matthias: rm redundant word&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;The '''Great Green Arkleseizure''' is a deity mentioned in [[Douglas Adams]]'s ''The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy''.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Although not offically considered a [[god]], the Great Green Arkleseizure is nonetheless the creator of the universe according the the beliefs of the Jatravartid people of planet Viltvodle VI.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{quote|The Jatravartids believe that the universe was sneezed out of the nose of the Great Green Arklseizure. They live in permanent fear of a time they call The Coming of the Great White Handkerchief.}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Comparison with religion==&lt;br /&gt;
The Great Green Arkleseizure can be used as a response to the [[Cosmological argument]] as an equally plausible theory to explain the origins of the Universe.  The Coming of the Great White Handkerchief can be seen as a vision of the end of the universe that is no less unlikely than the one presented in the [[Book of Revelation]].  &lt;br /&gt;
==Parody==&lt;br /&gt;
Since the Great Green Arkleseizure is not considered a god in the truest sense, it can also be seen as an atheistic (and parodic) explanation for the existence of the universe; accepting a creator, but denying that the creator is divine, or indeed had a plan of any kind.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.yoism.org/?q=node/82 Arkleseizure]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Satirical deities]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Arno Matthias</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Category_talk:Fictional_deities</id>
		<title>Category talk:Fictional deities</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Category_talk:Fictional_deities"/>
				<updated>2011-12-09T09:25:15Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Arno Matthias: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Aren't they ''all'' fictional? I thought that was sort of the point of this site...    Would it be cheeky to add the gods of world religions here? [[User:Libraryjuice|Libraryjuice]] 04:11, 1 September 2006 (MST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Did you read the description at the top of the category page? -- [[User:Kazim|Kazim]] 06:47, 1 September 2006 (MST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: I did. ;-) [[User:Blu Matt|Blu Matt]] 19:21, 3 October 2006 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I agree with [[User:Libraryjuice|Libraryjuice]]. How was christianity ''not'' deliberately invented? How do you know that the &amp;quot;fictional&amp;quot; gods are ''not'' &amp;quot;seriously believed by anyone&amp;quot;? How do you know that the &amp;quot;non-fictionals&amp;quot; are seriously believed by anyone? It makes no sense to separate them. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 07:51, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::It makes a lot of sense to separate them:&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Christians today make up a significant portion of the world's population and they do not believe their religion to be a fabrication.&lt;br /&gt;
::::*The only blatantly-fictional divinity which some (a few) people take seriously that I can think of is The Force from Star Wars, but if you have evidence of an extant major religion of Q-worshippers, do feel free to present its claims for refutation.&lt;br /&gt;
::::*There are a large number of people who freely profess a devout belief in the deities that comprise the world's serious religions.&lt;br /&gt;
::::[[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 15:54, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::A million flies can't be wrong - that is your argument? Really?There is such a thing as truth, and it is not determined by the number of people supporting it. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 19:51, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::::No, my argument is that the deities in this category meet the &amp;quot;not seriously believed by anyone&amp;quot; criteria and the other deities we have pages for do not meet it. [[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 21:40, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::I agree, but then the separation is not between &amp;quot;fictional&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;non-fictional&amp;quot; deities, i.e. name of this category is inappropriate. It is now known that the story of Jesus is entirely made up, copying from older stories about Mithra, Horus, Dionysos, Buddha and a few others (see http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-like-figures-who-pre-date-jesus/), and that Paul of Tarsus probably intended his work to be understood as fiction. So where is the difference to Douglas Adams? [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 10:42, 5 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Oh and btw, how would you categorise Mormonism? Scientology? Heaven’s Gate? see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_religion for more. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 10:51, 5 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::Yes, but that wasn't your argument. Your argument was &amp;quot;include all deities in this category&amp;quot;, not &amp;quot;rename the category&amp;quot;. We could call it &amp;quot;blatantly-fictional deities&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;deities widely-known to be fictional&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;harmless deities&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;non-dogmatic deities&amp;quot;, etc. Or we could leave it as is and not stoop to ludicrous levels of hair-splitting ''when everyone here knows what is meant''. The deities in this category don't have believers, they haven't ever had believers, they were very recently created strictly for use in parody/satire/fiction, and no proponents of those deities are attempting to force everyone else to follow the precepts of those religions.&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::You can stop telling me all about how other deities are also false, truth values, etc. This is an atheist wiki and I (surprise!) happen to be an atheist. Jesus is probably made up; yes, we're aware of that. The difference between Jesus and the Arkleseizure is that noone's actually trying to make it illegal to stifle a sneeze or tell children to fear the coming of the handkerchief. The difference between the FSM and Heaven's Gate is that noone's advocating suicide as a way of reaching the beer and stripper factory. ''It is very easy for any rational person to observe a distinct difference between the religions included in this category and the ones that weren't'', regardless of the exact name of the category.&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::Frankly, I have to ask what you're hoping to achieve here; your second act as a contributor was to decide to agree with someone who made a tongue-in-cheek suggestion five years ago. When replied to, you skewed my reply into a straw man argument. After I explained what my argument actually was, you moved the goalposts. In both of your replies, you've presumed that someone who contributes to an athiest wiki both has never heard these very common atheist arguments before and doesn't already agree with them. Are you new to atheism yourself? [[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 18:06, 5 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jdog makes reasonable points but I feel Jdog should put more effort into finding a way to make his points tactfully. [[User:Proxima Centauri|Proxima Centauri]] 03:40, 6 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The first drafts of my posts are considerably less tactful than the ones that get posted. As long as I believe the position I'm coming from is correct, I don't much care about further sugarcoating it beyond 2-3 rewrites. After all, the people I reply to clearly didn't put enough thought into their post in the first place or I wouldn't feel a reply was warranted. [[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 08:34, 6 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Jdog uses fallacies and personal attacks to avoid the real issue, which made me think that he probably is a cleric, only posing as an atheist. The real issue is the meaning of the word &amp;quot;fictional&amp;quot;. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 10:22, 7 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Please point out anywhere in our discussion where ''I've'' been the one committing a fallacy or making a personal attack, because I'm not seeing it. My previous reply to you was a direct explanation of why it is unnecessary on this wiki to explain that all gods are fictional, why the category contains the deities that it does and excludes the ones it does not, why it is patronizing and unneeded to explain common atheist arguments to a contributor here, and to point out the fallacies (straw man, moving the goalposts, and now ad hominem attacks) you yourself are using in your arguments. The current name of the category is both concise and accurate enough to be easily understood by contributors; if you have a more accurate (yet equally concise and clearly understood) suggestion for the name that still communicates the description of the category, feel free to suggest it. If it's better than &amp;quot;fictional&amp;quot; in those regards, I'll support it. [[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 18:45, 7 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::The article Jdog started, [[Laminin argument]] is very good, it would be great if Jdog spent more time writing that type of material and less time making other users feel uncomfortable over their contributions. [[User:Proxima Centauri|Proxima Centauri]] 03:57, 8 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::All contributions are not equal. I'm comfortable with my activity here in the time I'm willing to spend on the wiki, especially since a very prolific person here seems to think that even bad contributions should be encouraged. As I've stated before, I only criticize a contribution (or suggestion, in this case), if I find it to be irrational, incorrect, and/or useless. Letting such things stand brings down the quality of the wiki as rational resource on atheism and counter-apologetics. Incidentally, copypasting Arno's blurb about the non-Abrahamic origins of the Jesus myth to the category page and Arkleseizure page just makes the pages less intelligible; there's not actually any reason to have them there except to make an attempt to appease him and - much like a theist arguing that intelligent design should be accepted as a middle ground between creationism and evolution - I see no reason to appease someone when they're the one who is demonstrably wrong. If I'm the one who is wrong, they're welcome to prove it through rational discussion. Arno has yet to offer any. [[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 05:00, 8 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
@Proxima Centauri: Thanks for your support!  @Jdog: Not everybody who stumbles upon this wiki knows that it is a dedicated atheist project. And, I'm sorry to break this to you, nobody knows what you may already know about the subject. If there is a category called &amp;quot;fictional deities&amp;quot; then that automatically implies that there are non-fictional deities. If it were true that &amp;quot;it is unnecessary on this wiki to explain that all gods are fictional&amp;quot;, then why this category? You contradict yourself. Spoof deities were often invented to show how the official religions have the same ontological status (yes, Jdog, I'm sure you already knew that, but other people might be reading this too). So, something along the lines of &amp;quot;satirical deities&amp;quot; is probably a good categorisation. If there is a category &amp;quot;fictional deities&amp;quot; then all deities belong here. If we separate the satirical gods from the official ones then the category names should say that. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 07:32, 8 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think [http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-like-figures-who-pre-date-jesus/ this link] improves the article. [[User:Proxima Centauri|Proxima Centauri]] 08:51, 8 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
@Jdog: As requested here is an excerpt from the list of your bad arguments:&lt;br /&gt;
*all three points you make in your first post are true, but completely irrelevant to the name of this category&lt;br /&gt;
*You suggest ''We could call it &amp;quot;blatantly-fictional deities&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;deities widely-known to be fictional&amp;quot;...'', which indicates that you don't understand what fictional means, and ''&amp;quot;harmless deities&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;non-dogmatic deities&amp;quot;, etc.&amp;quot;'', which indicates that you don't understand the function of the spoof deities.&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;Or we could leave it as is and not stoop to ludicrous levels of hair-splitting ''when everyone here knows what is meant''&amp;quot; --two mistakes here: the first part (stoop to ludicrous levels of hair-splitting) is a personal attack, the second part &amp;quot;when everyone here knows what is meant&amp;quot; is just stupid.&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;The deities in this category don't have believers, ...&amp;quot; -- true, but irrelevant&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;You can stop telling me ...&amp;quot; -- as I said, I wasn't telling you, I was making a point&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;we're aware of that&amp;quot; -- majestic plural? We the People?&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;your second act as a contributor...&amp;quot; --irrelevant ...&amp;quot;was to decide to agree with someone who made a tongue-in-cheek suggestion...&amp;quot; --you get to decide what other contributors really think?  &amp;quot;...five years ago&amp;quot; --irrelevant&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;Are you new to atheism yourself?&amp;quot; --arrogant, personal attack, irrelevant&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;The first drafts of my posts are considerably less tactful&amp;quot;-- are we supposed to be grateful that your tone could be even worse?&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;the people I reply to clearly didn't put enough thought into their post in the first place or I wouldn't feel a reply was warranted&amp;quot; -- personal attack, extremely arrogant. It is possible that you are wrong sometimes.&lt;br /&gt;
The list goes on, but I hope I have made my point. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 10:44, 8 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
:There’s a serious problem here, some contributor writes something that has potential but is, perhaps not perfect.  Jdog slams that user over real or imagined imperfections and sees no need to be tactful.  The user goes away and we lose a possible good contributor. [[User:Proxima Centauri|Proxima Centauri]] 11:00, 8 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
::Unless this flame war is actually contributing to any concrete plans to change this article in some way, I request that you put a lid on it.  In any case, it's clear from the header that the purpose of the this category is to differentiate between gods that were ''written with the intent'' of being part of a fictional universe, as opposed to gods that are seriously believed by major world religions.  If you have a better title for the category then let's talk it over.  I'd propose &amp;quot;Deities in fiction,&amp;quot; but that's potentially subject to the same problems. --[[User:Kazim|Kazim]] 11:06, 8 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Readers cannot see the (only recently improved) header of this category on the individual pages. That was the reason for me to get involved: I followed a link from facebook to [[Invisible Pink Unicorn]] and was unhappy to find it had been categorised as &amp;quot;fictional deity&amp;quot;. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 03:25, 9 December 2011 (CST)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Arno Matthias</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Flying_Spaghetti_Monster</id>
		<title>Flying Spaghetti Monster</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Flying_Spaghetti_Monster"/>
				<updated>2011-12-09T09:15:51Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Arno Matthias: rm redundant cat&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:FSM3d.gif|thumb|A typical depiction of the Flying Spaghetti Monster]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:E-FlyingSpaghettiEmblem.gif|thumb|FSM emblem]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:FSM W 1600x1200 th1.jpg|thumb|&amp;quot;What Would the Flying Spaghetti Monster Do?&amp;quot; &amp;amp;mdash; a parody of &amp;quot;What Would Jesus Do?&amp;quot; (WWJD?)]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Th iwant2believe1240x1024.jpg|thumb|&amp;quot;I want to believe&amp;quot;, a reference to a poster in the TV series ''[[Wikipedia:The X-Files|The X-Files]]'']]&lt;br /&gt;
The '''Flying Spaghetti Monster''' (FSM) is a [[deity]] that either revealed itself to, or was simply invented by, Bobby Henderson as a parody of [[Intelligent design]], similar to the [[Invisible Pink Unicorn]]. The FSM first came to public notice when Henderson wrote an open letter to the Kansas School Board, which was considering adding Intelligent Design to the curriculum, arguing for the inclusion of the FSM by echoing many of the arguments used by Intelligent Design advocates-.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Although the FSM is particularly absurd, and there is no evidence for its existence, the same can be said of [[God]] and of the &amp;quot;designer&amp;quot; of Intelligent Design (ID). Thus, Henderson argues, if a school district chooses to teach ID in the classroom, it ought to teach about the Flying Spaghetti Monster as well so that students can hear all viewpoints and make up their own minds.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Followers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster are known as &amp;quot;Pastafarians&amp;quot; (a term modeled after &amp;quot;[[Rastafarian]]s&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The deity==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Flying Spaghetti Monster is depicted as a knot of [[Wikipedia:spaghetti|spaghetti]], flanked by two meatballs, with eyes on stalks.  Such a depiction is merely a guess, as the FSM is invisible to all known forms of scientific detection. The FSM is not actually made of spaghetti, but chooses to appear as such, as he really, really likes pasta.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The FSM is said to be capable of altering measurement results to make the world appear older or otherwise different from the way it really is. Thus, a scientist may carbon-date an artifact as being 10,000 years old, but:&lt;br /&gt;
: [W]hat our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage.&lt;br /&gt;
This illustrates the problem of trying to do [[science]] without [[methodological naturalism]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
FSM lore includes a [[creation myth]], and a graph showing an inverse relationship between global temperature and the number of [[Wikipedia:pirate|pirate]]s in the world, which serves to illustrate the flaw in assuming that just because figures correlate they must be causally connected.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 2006, Henderson published the first book about the FSM, ''The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster''. A second, online book, published on the internet by a multitude of authors from around the world called &amp;quot;The Loose Cannon&amp;quot;( [http://loose-canon.fsm-consortium.com/the-loose-canon/ The Loose Cannon official site]) is the Pastafarian version of the bible (which also parodies the bible).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Pastafarian Beliefs==&lt;br /&gt;
Pastafarians hold very few beliefs universally, but all followers of the FSM hold that pirates are sacred, and that global warming in linked to the declining number of pirates worldwide (this parodies churches that keep making up correlations and saying they are causation, such as &amp;quot;less people believe in our god, so X is happening!'). Pastafarians also celibrate a holiday called &amp;quot;holiday&amp;quot; around the same time as Christians celebrate christmas, and when and how they celibrate holiday is up to them (pastafarians have thanked the Bush administration and Wal-Mart for helping to promote holiday,giving Bush a little FSM magnet to put on his limo.This parodies the [[War on Christmas]]. ).&lt;br /&gt;
Pastafarians believe that the universe was created by the FSM while drunk, resulting in the imperfections in the universe.Pastafarian heaven has a stripper factory that produces whatever strippers you like, and a beer volcano that produces whatever beverage you like, alcoholic or non-alcoholic.The Pastafarian hell has two levels, the &amp;quot;upper&amp;quot; layer of it being reserved for bad people, where they do manual labour, with a redemption system, where they eat cheap pasta, with poor meat in the sauce. The &amp;quot;Lower&amp;quot; level is reserved for people such as [[Hitler]], where people do the most manual of labour, such as sewage cleaning, again, with a fair redemption system. &lt;br /&gt;
Most Pastafarian beliefs are parodies of intelligent design, Christianity, or other things of religious significance, or promote common sense, reason and tolerance. The holy day for pastafarians is Friday.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Teach the controversy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External link==&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.venganza.org/ Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Satirical deities]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Humorous web sites]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Arno Matthias</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Great_Green_Arkleseizure</id>
		<title>Great Green Arkleseizure</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Great_Green_Arkleseizure"/>
				<updated>2011-12-09T09:15:21Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Arno Matthias: rm redundant cat&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;The '''Great Green Arkleseizure''' is a fictional deity mentioned in [[Douglas Adams]]'s ''The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy''.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Although not offically considered a [[god]], the Great Green Arkleseizure is nonetheless the creator of the universe according the the beliefs of the Jatravartid people of planet Viltvodle VI.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{quote|The Jatravartids believe that the universe was sneezed out of the nose of the Great Green Arklseizure. They live in permanent fear of a time they call The Coming of the Great White Handkerchief.}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Comparison with religion==&lt;br /&gt;
The Great Green Arkleseizure can be used as a response to the [[Cosmological argument]] as an equally plausible theory to explain the origins of the Universe.  The Coming of the Great White Handkerchief can be seen as a vision of the end of the universe that is no less unlikely than the one presented in the [[Book of Revelation]].  &lt;br /&gt;
==Parody==&lt;br /&gt;
Since the Great Green Arkleseizure is not considered a god in the truest sense, it can also be seen as an atheistic (and parodic) explanation for the existence of the universe; accepting a creator, but denying that the creator is divine, or indeed had a plan of any kind.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.yoism.org/?q=node/82 Arkleseizure]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Satirical deities]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Arno Matthias</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Invisible_Pink_Unicorn</id>
		<title>Invisible Pink Unicorn</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Invisible_Pink_Unicorn"/>
				<updated>2011-12-09T09:14:38Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Arno Matthias: rm redundant cat&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;[[Image:Invisible Pink Unicorn Logo.png|thumb|The IPU logo]]The Invisible Pink Unicorn, or the IPU, is, like the [[Flying Spaghetti Monster]], a deity created as a parody of religious, mainly [[Christian]], apologetics and beliefs.  The IPU beliefs contain known contradictions that mirror contradictions in Christian apologetics which can be used to illustrate the absurdity of said apologetics.  These contradictions also serve to illustrate the difficulty that exists in trying to logically support a self-contradictory diety.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==History==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first mentions of the IPU appeared on the [[alt.atheism]] discussion group, indeed, &amp;quot;believers&amp;quot; state that the IPU was &amp;quot;revealed&amp;quot; to us on alt.atheism, though there are reports of oral transmission of her stories before her revelation on the internet.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The idea of the IPU was fleshed out by a group of college students between '94 and '95 at the ISCA Telnet-based BBS.  A manifesto was created that related the main doctrines, beliefs, and mythology of the IPU.  This manifesto was the source of what soon became the most famous quote regarding the Invisible Pink Unicorn:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{Quote-source|Invisible Pink Unicorns are beings of great spiritual power. We know this because they are capable of being invisible and pink at the same time. Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.|Steve Eley}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Beliefs==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's common for &amp;quot;believers&amp;quot; in the IPU to state that, since She's invisible, no one can prove She doesn't exist.  This parallels similar statements about the [[god]]s of other religions.  Thus, this serves as an illustration of the absurdity of using lack of proof as proof of existance.  Under this logic the IPU is just as credible as any god.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The fact that the IPU is invisible and pink is a known contradiction, but this too is simply an illustration of the absurdity of the Christian god's characteristics, e.g. being &lt;br /&gt;
[[omniscient|all-knowing]], [[omnipotent|all-powerful]], and [[omnibenevolent|all-loving]] yet somehow failing to destroy [[evil]], see [[Problem of evil]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another part of the satire is the fact that &amp;quot;followers&amp;quot; hold inconsistent ideas about the IPU's qualities.  For example, some believe that she is completely invisible and some believe she is visible to those who have faith in her existence.  However, some agreements have been made about her characteristics, for example that she likes raisin bread (symbolizing the expanding universe), that she prefers ham and pineapple pizza (though some vegetarians disagree saying that, since she's vegetarian she wouldn't eat ham, but mushrooms instead).  When someone points out this dispute (&amp;quot;If even her followers can't agree on what she's like...&amp;quot;) the usual response something like &amp;quot;Well, at least everyone agrees that she likes pineapple!&amp;quot;  This parallels the similar Christian response of &amp;quot;Well, at least all Christians agree on the basics&amp;quot; when someone points out the inconsistent beliefs among different Christian sects.  Another agreement among IPU believers is the idea that she hates pepperoni.  Yet another agreement is the idea that the IPU &amp;quot;raptures&amp;quot; socks which accounts for their strange tendancy to disappear.  Thus, when a sock is &amp;quot;raptured&amp;quot; from one's wash it is taken as a sign of favour from the IPU.  Some see it as a disfavour, however, depending on who is asked and the type of sock that was raptured.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The IPU religion has a &amp;quot;devil&amp;quot; figure as well in the form of the Purple Oyster.  Also known as the &amp;quot;Purple Oyster of Doom&amp;quot; or the &amp;quot;PO(oD)&amp;quot; it's said to have originally been in the service of the IPU but was cast out of her pastures for trying to convince believers that the IPU likes pepperoni and mushroom pizza the best.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the manifesto, IPUs were said to punish nonbelievers by poking them with their horns.  The pain from being poked was typically blamed on mosquitoes which, according to IPU dogma, don't actually bite people but are drawn to Invisible Pink Unicorns like horseflies are to horses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Images==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;div style=&amp;quot;float:right; border: 1px solid #777; width: 265px; padding: 3px&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;div style=&amp;quot;border: 1px solid #777&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[Image:Ipu picture.png]]&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;This is a picture of the Invisible Pink Unicorn. Really. Pink has been set as the transparency color for the alpha channel. Browsers which don't properly support the png format will display the unicorn, as will custom backgrounds...&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;[[Image:Ipu picture.png|frame|Like this.]]Images of the IPU typically show either a pink unicorn which is half faded into the background, or simply nothing.  Supposed &amp;quot;sightings&amp;quot; are also common which usually show an image of a place where the IPU was seen yet with nothing out of the ordinary at all in the photo.  These parody similar photos of cryptozoological animals that are often blurry, out of focus, or simply unremarkable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The IPU has also become a sort of mascot for atheists and other non-believers who display her image on shirts, mugs, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As with the Islamic tradition of adding epithets to the names of Muslim prophets, &amp;quot;IPUists&amp;quot; generally add the epithets &amp;quot;Blessed Be Her Holy Hooves&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Peace Be Unto Her&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;May Her Hooves Never Be Shod&amp;quot;.  These are commonly shortened to bbhhh, pbuh, and mhhnbs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.palmyria.co.uk/humour/ipu.htm The Invisible Pink Unicorn (Peace Be Unto Her) (May Her Holy Hooves Never Be Shod)]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36uAoe8e2dY A Christian Meets The Invisible Pink Unicorn], Edward Current on the IPU&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Satirical deities]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Arno Matthias</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Category_talk:Fictional_deities</id>
		<title>Category talk:Fictional deities</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Category_talk:Fictional_deities"/>
				<updated>2011-12-08T16:44:15Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Arno Matthias: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;Aren't they ''all'' fictional? I thought that was sort of the point of this site...    Would it be cheeky to add the gods of world religions here? [[User:Libraryjuice|Libraryjuice]] 04:11, 1 September 2006 (MST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Did you read the description at the top of the category page? -- [[User:Kazim|Kazim]] 06:47, 1 September 2006 (MST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: I did. ;-) [[User:Blu Matt|Blu Matt]] 19:21, 3 October 2006 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I agree with [[User:Libraryjuice|Libraryjuice]]. How was christianity ''not'' deliberately invented? How do you know that the &amp;quot;fictional&amp;quot; gods are ''not'' &amp;quot;seriously believed by anyone&amp;quot;? How do you know that the &amp;quot;non-fictionals&amp;quot; are seriously believed by anyone? It makes no sense to separate them. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 07:51, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::It makes a lot of sense to separate them:&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Christians today make up a significant portion of the world's population and they do not believe their religion to be a fabrication.&lt;br /&gt;
::::*The only blatantly-fictional divinity which some (a few) people take seriously that I can think of is The Force from Star Wars, but if you have evidence of an extant major religion of Q-worshippers, do feel free to present its claims for refutation.&lt;br /&gt;
::::*There are a large number of people who freely profess a devout belief in the deities that comprise the world's serious religions.&lt;br /&gt;
::::[[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 15:54, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::A million flies can't be wrong - that is your argument? Really?There is such a thing as truth, and it is not determined by the number of people supporting it. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 19:51, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::::No, my argument is that the deities in this category meet the &amp;quot;not seriously believed by anyone&amp;quot; criteria and the other deities we have pages for do not meet it. [[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 21:40, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::I agree, but then the separation is not between &amp;quot;fictional&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;non-fictional&amp;quot; deities, i.e. name of this category is inappropriate. It is now known that the story of Jesus is entirely made up, copying from older stories about Mithra, Horus, Dionysos, Buddha and a few others (see http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-like-figures-who-pre-date-jesus/), and that Paul of Tarsus probably intended his work to be understood as fiction. So where is the difference to Douglas Adams? [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 10:42, 5 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Oh and btw, how would you categorise Mormonism? Scientology? Heaven’s Gate? see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_religion for more. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 10:51, 5 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::Yes, but that wasn't your argument. Your argument was &amp;quot;include all deities in this category&amp;quot;, not &amp;quot;rename the category&amp;quot;. We could call it &amp;quot;blatantly-fictional deities&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;deities widely-known to be fictional&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;harmless deities&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;non-dogmatic deities&amp;quot;, etc. Or we could leave it as is and not stoop to ludicrous levels of hair-splitting ''when everyone here knows what is meant''. The deities in this category don't have believers, they haven't ever had believers, they were very recently created strictly for use in parody/satire/fiction, and no proponents of those deities are attempting to force everyone else to follow the precepts of those religions.&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::You can stop telling me all about how other deities are also false, truth values, etc. This is an atheist wiki and I (surprise!) happen to be an atheist. Jesus is probably made up; yes, we're aware of that. The difference between Jesus and the Arkleseizure is that noone's actually trying to make it illegal to stifle a sneeze or tell children to fear the coming of the handkerchief. The difference between the FSM and Heaven's Gate is that noone's advocating suicide as a way of reaching the beer and stripper factory. ''It is very easy for any rational person to observe a distinct difference between the religions included in this category and the ones that weren't'', regardless of the exact name of the category.&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::Frankly, I have to ask what you're hoping to achieve here; your second act as a contributor was to decide to agree with someone who made a tongue-in-cheek suggestion five years ago. When replied to, you skewed my reply into a straw man argument. After I explained what my argument actually was, you moved the goalposts. In both of your replies, you've presumed that someone who contributes to an athiest wiki both has never heard these very common atheist arguments before and doesn't already agree with them. Are you new to atheism yourself? [[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 18:06, 5 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jdog makes reasonable points but I feel Jdog should put more effort into finding a way to make his points tactfully. [[User:Proxima Centauri|Proxima Centauri]] 03:40, 6 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The first drafts of my posts are considerably less tactful than the ones that get posted. As long as I believe the position I'm coming from is correct, I don't much care about further sugarcoating it beyond 2-3 rewrites. After all, the people I reply to clearly didn't put enough thought into their post in the first place or I wouldn't feel a reply was warranted. [[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 08:34, 6 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Jdog uses fallacies and personal attacks to avoid the real issue, which made me think that he probably is a cleric, only posing as an atheist. The real issue is the meaning of the word &amp;quot;fictional&amp;quot;. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 10:22, 7 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Please point out anywhere in our discussion where ''I've'' been the one committing a fallacy or making a personal attack, because I'm not seeing it. My previous reply to you was a direct explanation of why it is unnecessary on this wiki to explain that all gods are fictional, why the category contains the deities that it does and excludes the ones it does not, why it is patronizing and unneeded to explain common atheist arguments to a contributor here, and to point out the fallacies (straw man, moving the goalposts, and now ad hominem attacks) you yourself are using in your arguments. The current name of the category is both concise and accurate enough to be easily understood by contributors; if you have a more accurate (yet equally concise and clearly understood) suggestion for the name that still communicates the description of the category, feel free to suggest it. If it's better than &amp;quot;fictional&amp;quot; in those regards, I'll support it. [[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 18:45, 7 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::The article Jdog started, [[Laminin argument]] is very good, it would be great if Jdog spent more time writing that type of material and less time making other users feel uncomfortable over their contributions. [[User:Proxima Centauri|Proxima Centauri]] 03:57, 8 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::All contributions are not equal. I'm comfortable with my activity here in the time I'm willing to spend on the wiki, especially since a very prolific person here seems to think that even bad contributions should be encouraged. As I've stated before, I only criticize a contribution (or suggestion, in this case), if I find it to be irrational, incorrect, and/or useless. Letting such things stand brings down the quality of the wiki as rational resource on atheism and counter-apologetics. Incidentally, copypasting Arno's blurb about the non-Abrahamic origins of the Jesus myth to the category page and Arkleseizure page just makes the pages less intelligible; there's not actually any reason to have them there except to make an attempt to appease him and - much like a theist arguing that intelligent design should be accepted as a middle ground between creationism and evolution - I see no reason to appease someone when they're the one who is demonstrably wrong. If I'm the one who is wrong, they're welcome to prove it through rational discussion. Arno has yet to offer any. [[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 05:00, 8 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
@Proxima Centauri: Thanks for your support!  @Jdog: Not everybody who stumbles upon this wiki knows that it is a dedicated atheist project. And, I'm sorry to break this to you, nobody knows what you may already know about the subject. If there is a category called &amp;quot;fictional deities&amp;quot; then that automatically implies that there are non-fictional deities. If it were true that &amp;quot;it is unnecessary on this wiki to explain that all gods are fictional&amp;quot;, then why this category? You contradict yourself. Spoof deities were often invented to show how the official religions have the same ontological status (yes, Jdog, I'm sure you already knew that, but other people might be reading this too). So, something along the lines of &amp;quot;satirical deities&amp;quot; is probably a good categorisation. If there is a category &amp;quot;fictional deities&amp;quot; then all deities belong here. If we separate the satirical gods from the official ones then the category names should say that. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 07:32, 8 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think [http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-like-figures-who-pre-date-jesus/ this link] improves the article. [[User:Proxima Centauri|Proxima Centauri]] 08:51, 8 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
@Jdog: As requested here is an excerpt from the list of your bad arguments:&lt;br /&gt;
*all three points you make in your first post are true, but completely irrelevant to the name of this category&lt;br /&gt;
*You suggest ''We could call it &amp;quot;blatantly-fictional deities&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;deities widely-known to be fictional&amp;quot;...'', which indicates that you don't understand what fictional means, and ''&amp;quot;harmless deities&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;non-dogmatic deities&amp;quot;, etc.&amp;quot;'', which indicates that you don't understand the function of the spoof deities.&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;Or we could leave it as is and not stoop to ludicrous levels of hair-splitting ''when everyone here knows what is meant''&amp;quot; --two mistakes here: the first part (stoop to ludicrous levels of hair-splitting) is a personal attack, the second part &amp;quot;when everyone here knows what is meant&amp;quot; is just stupid.&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;The deities in this category don't have believers, ...&amp;quot; -- true, but irrelevant&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;You can stop telling me ...&amp;quot; -- as I said, I wasn't telling you, I was making a point&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;we're aware of that&amp;quot; -- majestic plural? We the People?&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;your second act as a contributor...&amp;quot; --irrelevant ...&amp;quot;was to decide to agree with someone who made a tongue-in-cheek suggestion...&amp;quot; --you get to decide what other contributors really think?  &amp;quot;...five years ago&amp;quot; --irrelevant&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;Are you new to atheism yourself?&amp;quot; --arrogant, personal attack, irrelevant&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;The first drafts of my posts are considerably less tactful&amp;quot;-- are we supposed to be grateful that your tone could be even worse?&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;the people I reply to clearly didn't put enough thought into their post in the first place or I wouldn't feel a reply was warranted&amp;quot; -- personal attack, extremely arrogant. It is possible that you are wrong sometimes.&lt;br /&gt;
The list goes on, but I hope I have made my point. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 10:44, 8 December 2011 (CST)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Arno Matthias</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Category_talk:Fictional_deities</id>
		<title>Category talk:Fictional deities</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Category_talk:Fictional_deities"/>
				<updated>2011-12-08T13:32:55Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Arno Matthias: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Aren't they ''all'' fictional? I thought that was sort of the point of this site...    Would it be cheeky to add the gods of world religions here? [[User:Libraryjuice|Libraryjuice]] 04:11, 1 September 2006 (MST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Did you read the description at the top of the category page? -- [[User:Kazim|Kazim]] 06:47, 1 September 2006 (MST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: I did. ;-) [[User:Blu Matt|Blu Matt]] 19:21, 3 October 2006 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I agree with [[User:Libraryjuice|Libraryjuice]]. How was christianity ''not'' deliberately invented? How do you know that the &amp;quot;fictional&amp;quot; gods are ''not'' &amp;quot;seriously believed by anyone&amp;quot;? How do you know that the &amp;quot;non-fictionals&amp;quot; are seriously believed by anyone? It makes no sense to separate them. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 07:51, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::It makes a lot of sense to separate them:&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Christians today make up a significant portion of the world's population and they do not believe their religion to be a fabrication.&lt;br /&gt;
::::*The only blatantly-fictional divinity which some (a few) people take seriously that I can think of is The Force from Star Wars, but if you have evidence of an extant major religion of Q-worshippers, do feel free to present its claims for refutation.&lt;br /&gt;
::::*There are a large number of people who freely profess a devout belief in the deities that comprise the world's serious religions.&lt;br /&gt;
::::[[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 15:54, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::A million flies can't be wrong - that is your argument? Really?There is such a thing as truth, and it is not determined by the number of people supporting it. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 19:51, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::::No, my argument is that the deities in this category meet the &amp;quot;not seriously believed by anyone&amp;quot; criteria and the other deities we have pages for do not meet it. [[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 21:40, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::I agree, but then the separation is not between &amp;quot;fictional&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;non-fictional&amp;quot; deities, i.e. name of this category is inappropriate. It is now known that the story of Jesus is entirely made up, copying from older stories about Mithra, Horus, Dionysos, Buddha and a few others (see http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-like-figures-who-pre-date-jesus/), and that Paul of Tarsus probably intended his work to be understood as fiction. So where is the difference to Douglas Adams? [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 10:42, 5 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Oh and btw, how would you categorise Mormonism? Scientology? Heaven’s Gate? see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_religion for more. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 10:51, 5 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::Yes, but that wasn't your argument. Your argument was &amp;quot;include all deities in this category&amp;quot;, not &amp;quot;rename the category&amp;quot;. We could call it &amp;quot;blatantly-fictional deities&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;deities widely-known to be fictional&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;harmless deities&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;non-dogmatic deities&amp;quot;, etc. Or we could leave it as is and not stoop to ludicrous levels of hair-splitting ''when everyone here knows what is meant''. The deities in this category don't have believers, they haven't ever had believers, they were very recently created strictly for use in parody/satire/fiction, and no proponents of those deities are attempting to force everyone else to follow the precepts of those religions.&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::You can stop telling me all about how other deities are also false, truth values, etc. This is an atheist wiki and I (surprise!) happen to be an atheist. Jesus is probably made up; yes, we're aware of that. The difference between Jesus and the Arkleseizure is that noone's actually trying to make it illegal to stifle a sneeze or tell children to fear the coming of the handkerchief. The difference between the FSM and Heaven's Gate is that noone's advocating suicide as a way of reaching the beer and stripper factory. ''It is very easy for any rational person to observe a distinct difference between the religions included in this category and the ones that weren't'', regardless of the exact name of the category.&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::Frankly, I have to ask what you're hoping to achieve here; your second act as a contributor was to decide to agree with someone who made a tongue-in-cheek suggestion five years ago. When replied to, you skewed my reply into a straw man argument. After I explained what my argument actually was, you moved the goalposts. In both of your replies, you've presumed that someone who contributes to an athiest wiki both has never heard these very common atheist arguments before and doesn't already agree with them. Are you new to atheism yourself? [[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 18:06, 5 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jdog makes reasonable points but I feel Jdog should put more effort into finding a way to make his points tactfully. [[User:Proxima Centauri|Proxima Centauri]] 03:40, 6 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The first drafts of my posts are considerably less tactful than the ones that get posted. As long as I believe the position I'm coming from is correct, I don't much care about further sugarcoating it beyond 2-3 rewrites. After all, the people I reply to clearly didn't put enough thought into their post in the first place or I wouldn't feel a reply was warranted. [[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 08:34, 6 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Jdog uses fallacies and personal attacks to avoid the real issue, which made me think that he probably is a cleric, only posing as an atheist. The real issue is the meaning of the word &amp;quot;fictional&amp;quot;. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 10:22, 7 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Please point out anywhere in our discussion where ''I've'' been the one committing a fallacy or making a personal attack, because I'm not seeing it. My previous reply to you was a direct explanation of why it is unnecessary on this wiki to explain that all gods are fictional, why the category contains the deities that it does and excludes the ones it does not, why it is patronizing and unneeded to explain common atheist arguments to a contributor here, and to point out the fallacies (straw man, moving the goalposts, and now ad hominem attacks) you yourself are using in your arguments. The current name of the category is both concise and accurate enough to be easily understood by contributors; if you have a more accurate (yet equally concise and clearly understood) suggestion for the name that still communicates the description of the category, feel free to suggest it. If it's better than &amp;quot;fictional&amp;quot; in those regards, I'll support it. [[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 18:45, 7 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::The article Jdog started, [[Laminin argument]] is very good, it would be great if Jdog spent more time writing that type of material and less time making other users feel uncomfortable over their contributions. [[User:Proxima Centauri|Proxima Centauri]] 03:57, 8 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::All contributions are not equal. I'm comfortable with my activity here in the time I'm willing to spend on the wiki, especially since a very prolific person here seems to think that even bad contributions should be encouraged. As I've stated before, I only criticize a contribution (or suggestion, in this case), if I find it to be irrational, incorrect, and/or useless. Letting such things stand brings down the quality of the wiki as rational resource on atheism and counter-apologetics. Incidentally, copypasting Arno's blurb about the non-Abrahamic origins of the Jesus myth to the category page and Arkleseizure page just makes the pages less intelligible; there's not actually any reason to have them there except to make an attempt to appease him and - much like a theist arguing that intelligent design should be accepted as a middle ground between creationism and evolution - I see no reason to appease someone when they're the one who is demonstrably wrong. If I'm the one who is wrong, they're welcome to prove it through rational discussion. Arno has yet to offer any. [[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 05:00, 8 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
@Proxima Centauri: Thanks for your support!  @Jdog: Not everybody who stumbles upon this wiki knows that it is a dedicated atheist project. And, I'm sorry to break this to you, nobody knows what you may already know about the subject. If there is a category called &amp;quot;fictional deities&amp;quot; then that automatically implies that there are non-fictional deities. If it were true that &amp;quot;it is unnecessary on this wiki to explain that all gods are fictional&amp;quot;, then why this category? You contradict yourself. Spoof deities were often invented to show how the official religions have the same ontological status (yes, Jdog, I'm sure you already knew that, but other people might be reading this too). So, something along the lines of &amp;quot;satirical deities&amp;quot; is probably a good categorisation. If there is a category &amp;quot;fictional deities&amp;quot; then all deities belong here. If we separate the satirical gods from the official ones then the category names should say that. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 07:32, 8 December 2011 (CST)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Arno Matthias</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Category_talk:Fictional_deities</id>
		<title>Category talk:Fictional deities</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Category_talk:Fictional_deities"/>
				<updated>2011-12-07T16:22:32Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Arno Matthias: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Aren't they ''all'' fictional? I thought that was sort of the point of this site...    Would it be cheeky to add the gods of world religions here? [[User:Libraryjuice|Libraryjuice]] 04:11, 1 September 2006 (MST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Did you read the description at the top of the category page? -- [[User:Kazim|Kazim]] 06:47, 1 September 2006 (MST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: I did. ;-) [[User:Blu Matt|Blu Matt]] 19:21, 3 October 2006 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I agree with [[User:Libraryjuice|Libraryjuice]]. How was christianity ''not'' deliberately invented? How do you know that the &amp;quot;fictional&amp;quot; gods are ''not'' &amp;quot;seriously believed by anyone&amp;quot;? How do you know that the &amp;quot;non-fictionals&amp;quot; are seriously believed by anyone? It makes no sense to separate them. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 07:51, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::It makes a lot of sense to separate them:&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Christians today make up a significant portion of the world's population and they do not believe their religion to be a fabrication.&lt;br /&gt;
::::*The only blatantly-fictional divinity which some (a few) people take seriously that I can think of is The Force from Star Wars, but if you have evidence of an extant major religion of Q-worshippers, do feel free to present its claims for refutation.&lt;br /&gt;
::::*There are a large number of people who freely profess a devout belief in the deities that comprise the world's serious religions.&lt;br /&gt;
::::[[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 15:54, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::A million flies can't be wrong - that is your argument? Really?There is such a thing as truth, and it is not determined by the number of people supporting it. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 19:51, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::::No, my argument is that the deities in this category meet the &amp;quot;not seriously believed by anyone&amp;quot; criteria and the other deities we have pages for do not meet it. [[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 21:40, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::I agree, but then the separation is not between &amp;quot;fictional&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;non-fictional&amp;quot; deities, i.e. name of this category is inappropriate. It is now known that the story of Jesus is entirely made up, copying from older stories about Mithra, Horus, Dionysos, Buddha and a few others (see http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-like-figures-who-pre-date-jesus/), and that Paul of Tarsus probably intended his work to be understood as fiction. So where is the difference to Douglas Adams? [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 10:42, 5 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Oh and btw, how would you categorise Mormonism? Scientology? Heaven’s Gate? see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_religion for more. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 10:51, 5 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::Yes, but that wasn't your argument. Your argument was &amp;quot;include all deities in this category&amp;quot;, not &amp;quot;rename the category&amp;quot;. We could call it &amp;quot;blatantly-fictional deities&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;deities widely-known to be fictional&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;harmless deities&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;non-dogmatic deities&amp;quot;, etc. Or we could leave it as is and not stoop to ludicrous levels of hair-splitting ''when everyone here knows what is meant''. The deities in this category don't have believers, they haven't ever had believers, they were very recently created strictly for use in parody/satire/fiction, and no proponents of those deities are attempting to force everyone else to follow the precepts of those religions.&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::You can stop telling me all about how other deities are also false, truth values, etc. This is an atheist wiki and I (surprise!) happen to be an atheist. Jesus is probably made up; yes, we're aware of that. The difference between Jesus and the Arkleseizure is that noone's actually trying to make it illegal to stifle a sneeze or tell children to fear the coming of the handkerchief. The difference between the FSM and Heaven's Gate is that noone's advocating suicide as a way of reaching the beer and stripper factory. ''It is very easy for any rational person to observe a distinct difference between the religions included in this category and the ones that weren't'', regardless of the exact name of the category.&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::Frankly, I have to ask what you're hoping to achieve here; your second act as a contributor was to decide to agree with someone who made a tongue-in-cheek suggestion five years ago. When replied to, you skewed my reply into a straw man argument. After I explained what my argument actually was, you moved the goalposts. In both of your replies, you've presumed that someone who contributes to an athiest wiki both has never heard these very common atheist arguments before and doesn't already agree with them. Are you new to atheism yourself? [[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 18:06, 5 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jdog makes reasonable points but I feel Jdog should put more effort into finding a way to make his points tactfully. [[User:Proxima Centauri|Proxima Centauri]] 03:40, 6 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The first drafts of my posts are considerably less tactful than the ones that get posted. As long as I believe the position I'm coming from is correct, I don't much care about further sugarcoating it beyond 2-3 rewrites. After all, the people I reply to clearly didn't put enough thought into their post in the first place or I wouldn't feel a reply was warranted. [[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 08:34, 6 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Jdog uses fallacies and personal attacks to avoid the real issue, which made me think that he probably is a cleric, only posing as an atheist. The real issue is the meaning of the word &amp;quot;fictional&amp;quot;. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 10:22, 7 December 2011 (CST)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Arno Matthias</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Category_talk:Fictional_deities</id>
		<title>Category talk:Fictional deities</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Category_talk:Fictional_deities"/>
				<updated>2011-12-05T16:51:44Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Arno Matthias: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Aren't they ''all'' fictional? I thought that was sort of the point of this site...    Would it be cheeky to add the gods of world religions here? [[User:Libraryjuice|Libraryjuice]] 04:11, 1 September 2006 (MST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Did you read the description at the top of the category page? -- [[User:Kazim|Kazim]] 06:47, 1 September 2006 (MST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: I did. ;-) [[User:Blu Matt|Blu Matt]] 19:21, 3 October 2006 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I agree with [[User:Libraryjuice|Libraryjuice]]. How was christianity ''not'' deliberately invented? How do you know that the &amp;quot;fictional&amp;quot; gods are ''not'' &amp;quot;seriously believed by anyone&amp;quot;? How do you know that the &amp;quot;non-fictionals&amp;quot; are seriously believed by anyone? It makes no sense to separate them. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 07:51, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::It makes a lot of sense to separate them:&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Christians today make up a significant portion of the world's population and they do not believe their religion to be a fabrication.&lt;br /&gt;
::::*The only blatantly-fictional divinity which some (a few) people take seriously that I can think of is The Force from Star Wars, but if you have evidence of an extant major religion of Q-worshippers, do feel free to present its claims for refutation.&lt;br /&gt;
::::*There are a large number of people who freely profess a devout belief in the deities that comprise the world's serious religions.&lt;br /&gt;
::::[[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 15:54, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::A million flies can't be wrong - that is your argument? Really?There is such a thing as truth, and it is not determined by the number of people supporting it. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 19:51, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::::No, my argument is that the deities in this category meet the &amp;quot;not seriously believed by anyone&amp;quot; criteria and the other deities we have pages for do not meet it. [[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 21:40, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::I agree, but then the separation is not between &amp;quot;fictional&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;non-fictional&amp;quot; deities, i.e. name of this category is inappropriate. It is now known that the story of Jesus is entirely made up, copying from older stories about Mithra, Horus, Dionysos, Buddha and a few others (see http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-like-figures-who-pre-date-jesus/), and that Paul of Tarsus probably intended his work to be understood as fiction. So where is the difference to Douglas Adams? [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 10:42, 5 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Oh and btw, how would you categorise Mormonism? Scientology? Heaven’s Gate? see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_religion for more. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 10:51, 5 December 2011 (CST)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Arno Matthias</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Category_talk:Fictional_deities</id>
		<title>Category talk:Fictional deities</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Category_talk:Fictional_deities"/>
				<updated>2011-12-05T16:42:08Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Arno Matthias: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Aren't they ''all'' fictional? I thought that was sort of the point of this site...    Would it be cheeky to add the gods of world religions here? [[User:Libraryjuice|Libraryjuice]] 04:11, 1 September 2006 (MST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Did you read the description at the top of the category page? -- [[User:Kazim|Kazim]] 06:47, 1 September 2006 (MST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: I did. ;-) [[User:Blu Matt|Blu Matt]] 19:21, 3 October 2006 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I agree with [[User:Libraryjuice|Libraryjuice]]. How was christianity ''not'' deliberately invented? How do you know that the &amp;quot;fictional&amp;quot; gods are ''not'' &amp;quot;seriously believed by anyone&amp;quot;? How do you know that the &amp;quot;non-fictionals&amp;quot; are seriously believed by anyone? It makes no sense to separate them. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 07:51, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::It makes a lot of sense to separate them:&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Christians today make up a significant portion of the world's population and they do not believe their religion to be a fabrication.&lt;br /&gt;
::::*The only blatantly-fictional divinity which some (a few) people take seriously that I can think of is The Force from Star Wars, but if you have evidence of an extant major religion of Q-worshippers, do feel free to present its claims for refutation.&lt;br /&gt;
::::*There are a large number of people who freely profess a devout belief in the deities that comprise the world's serious religions.&lt;br /&gt;
::::[[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 15:54, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::A million flies can't be wrong - that is your argument? Really?There is such a thing as truth, and it is not determined by the number of people supporting it. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 19:51, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::::No, my argument is that the deities in this category meet the &amp;quot;not seriously believed by anyone&amp;quot; criteria and the other deities we have pages for do not meet it. [[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 21:40, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::I agree, but then the separation is not between &amp;quot;fictional&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;non-fictional&amp;quot; deities, i.e. name of this category is inappropriate. It is now known that the story of Jesus is entirely made up, copying from older stories about Mithra, Horus, Dionysos, Buddha and a few others (see http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-like-figures-who-pre-date-jesus/), and that Paul of Tarsus probably intended his work to be understood as fiction. So where is the difference to Douglas Adams? [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 10:42, 5 December 2011 (CST)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Arno Matthias</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=User:Arno_Matthias</id>
		<title>User:Arno Matthias</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=User:Arno_Matthias"/>
				<updated>2011-12-05T16:30:42Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Arno Matthias: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;in another universe... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Arno_Matthias&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Arno Matthias</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Category_talk:Fictional_deities</id>
		<title>Category talk:Fictional deities</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Category_talk:Fictional_deities"/>
				<updated>2011-12-05T01:51:38Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Arno Matthias: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;Aren't they ''all'' fictional? I thought that was sort of the point of this site...    Would it be cheeky to add the gods of world religions here? [[User:Libraryjuice|Libraryjuice]] 04:11, 1 September 2006 (MST)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Did you read the description at the top of the category page? -- [[User:Kazim|Kazim]] 06:47, 1 September 2006 (MST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: I did. ;-) [[User:Blu Matt|Blu Matt]] 19:21, 3 October 2006 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I agree with [[User:Libraryjuice|Libraryjuice]]. How was christianity ''not'' deliberately invented? How do you know that the &amp;quot;fictional&amp;quot; gods are ''not'' &amp;quot;seriously believed by anyone&amp;quot;? How do you know that the &amp;quot;non-fictionals&amp;quot; are seriously believed by anyone? It makes no sense to separate them. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 07:51, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::It makes a lot of sense to separate them:&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Christians today make up a significant portion of the world's population and they do not believe their religion to be a fabrication.&lt;br /&gt;
::::*The only blatantly-fictional divinity which some (a few) people take seriously that I can think of is The Force from Star Wars, but if you have evidence of an extant major religion of Q-worshippers, do feel free to present its claims for refutation.&lt;br /&gt;
::::*There are a large number of people who freely profess a devout belief in the deities that comprise the world's serious religions.&lt;br /&gt;
::::[[User:Jdog|Jdog]] 15:54, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::A million flies can't be wrong - that is your argument? Really?There is such a thing as truth, and it is not determined by the number of people supporting it. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 19:51, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Arno Matthias</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Great_Green_Arkleseizure</id>
		<title>Great Green Arkleseizure</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Great_Green_Arkleseizure"/>
				<updated>2011-12-04T14:12:57Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Arno Matthias: they all are&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;The '''Great Green Arkleseizure''' is a deity mentioned in [[Douglas Adams]]'s ''The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy''.&lt;br /&gt;
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Although not offically considered a [[god]], the Great Green Arkleseizure is nonetheless the creator of the universe according the the beliefs of the Jatravartid people of planet Viltvodle VI.&lt;br /&gt;
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{{quote|The Jatravartids believe that the universe was sneezed out of the nose of the Great Green Arklseizure. They live in permanent fear of a time they call The Coming of the Great White Handkerchief.}}&lt;br /&gt;
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The Great Green Arkleseizure can be used as a response to the [[Cosmological argument]] as an equally plausible theory to explain the origins of the Universe.  The Coming of the Great White Handkerchief can be seen as a vision of the end of the universe that is no less unlikely than the one presented in the [[Book of Revelation]].&lt;br /&gt;
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Since the Great Green Arkleseizure is not considered a god in the truest sense, it can also be seen as an atheistic (and parodic) explanation for the existence of the universe; accepting a creator, but denying that the creator is divine, or indeed had a plan of any kind.&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Category: Fictional deities]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Arno Matthias</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Category_talk:Fictional_deities</id>
		<title>Category talk:Fictional deities</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Category_talk:Fictional_deities"/>
				<updated>2011-12-04T13:51:21Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Arno Matthias: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Aren't they ''all'' fictional? I thought that was sort of the point of this site...    Would it be cheeky to add the gods of world religions here? [[User:Libraryjuice|Libraryjuice]] 04:11, 1 September 2006 (MST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Did you read the description at the top of the category page? -- [[User:Kazim|Kazim]] 06:47, 1 September 2006 (MST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: I did. ;-) [[User:Blu Matt|Blu Matt]] 19:21, 3 October 2006 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I agree with [[User:Libraryjuice|Libraryjuice]]. How was christianity ''not'' deliberately invented? How do you know that the &amp;quot;fictional&amp;quot; gods are ''not'' &amp;quot;seriously believed by anyone&amp;quot;? How do you know that the &amp;quot;non-fictionals&amp;quot; are seriously believed by anyone? It makes no sense to separate them. [[User:Arno Matthias|Arno Matthias]] 07:51, 4 December 2011 (CST)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Arno Matthias</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Invisible_Pink_Unicorn</id>
		<title>Invisible Pink Unicorn</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Invisible_Pink_Unicorn"/>
				<updated>2011-12-04T13:44:39Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Arno Matthias: cleanup&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;[[Image:Invisible Pink Unicorn Logo.png|thumb|The IPU logo]]The Invisible Pink Unicorn, or the IPU, is, like the [[Flying Spaghetti Monster]], a deity created as a parody of religious, mainly [[Christian]], apologetics and beliefs.  The IPU beliefs contain known contradictions that mirror contradictions in Christian apologetics which can be used to illustrate the absurdity of said apologetics.  These contradictions also serve to illustrate the difficulty that exists in trying to logically support a self-contradictory diety.&lt;br /&gt;
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==History==&lt;br /&gt;
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The first mentions of the IPU appeared on the [[alt.atheism]] discussion group, indeed, &amp;quot;believers&amp;quot; state that the IPU was &amp;quot;revealed&amp;quot; to us on alt.atheism, though there are reports of oral transmission of her stories before her revelation on the internet.&lt;br /&gt;
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The idea of the IPU was fleshed out by a group of college students between '94 and '95 at the ISCA Telnet-based BBS.  A manifesto was created that related the main doctrines, beliefs, and mythology of the IPU.  This manifesto was the source of what soon became the most famous quote regarding the Invisible Pink Unicorn:&lt;br /&gt;
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{{Quote-source|Invisible Pink Unicorns are beings of great spiritual power. We know this because they are capable of being invisible and pink at the same time. Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.|Steve Eley}}&lt;br /&gt;
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==Beliefs==&lt;br /&gt;
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It's common for &amp;quot;believers&amp;quot; in the IPU to state that, since she's invisible, no one can prove she doesn't exist.  This parallels similar statements about the [[god]]s of other religions.  Thus, this serves as an illustration of the absurdity of using lack of proof as proof of existance.  Under this logic the IPU is just as credible as any god.&lt;br /&gt;
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The fact that the IPU is invisible and pink is a known contradiction, but this too is simply an illustration of the absurdity of the Christian god's characteristics, e.g. being all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-loving yet somehow failing to destroy [[evil]].&lt;br /&gt;
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Another part of the satire is the fact that &amp;quot;followers&amp;quot; hold inconsistent ideas about the IPU's qualities.  For example, some believe that she is completely invisible and some believe she is visible to those who have faith in her existence.  However, some agreements have been made about her characteristics, for example that she likes raisin bread (symbolizing the expanding universe), that she prefers ham and pineapple pizza (though some vegetarians disagree saying that, since she's vegetarian she wouldn't eat ham, but mushrooms instead).  When someone points out this dispute (&amp;quot;If even her followers can't agree on what she's like...&amp;quot;) the usual response something like &amp;quot;Well, at least everyone agrees that she likes pineapple!&amp;quot;  This parallels the similar Christian response of &amp;quot;Well, at least all Christians agree on the basics&amp;quot; when someone points out the inconsistent beliefs among different Christian sects.  Another agreement among IPU believers is the idea that she hates pepperoni.  Yet another agreement is the idea that the IPU &amp;quot;raptures&amp;quot; socks which accounts for their strange tendancy to disappear.  Thus, when a sock is &amp;quot;raptured&amp;quot; from one's wash it is taken as a sign of favour from the IPU.  Some see it as a disfavour, however, depending on who is asked and the type of sock that was raptured.&lt;br /&gt;
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The IPU religion has a &amp;quot;devil&amp;quot; figure as well in the form of the Purple Oyster.  Also known as the &amp;quot;Purple Oyster of Doom&amp;quot; or the &amp;quot;PO(oD)&amp;quot; it's said to have originally been in the service of the IPU but was cast out of her pastures for trying to convince believers that the IPU likes pepperoni and mushroom pizza the best.&lt;br /&gt;
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In the manifesto, IPUs were said to punish nonbelievers by poking them with their horns.  The pain from being poked was typically blamed on mosquitoes which, according to IPU dogma, don't actually bite people but are drawn to Invisible Pink Unicorns like horseflies are to horses.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Images==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;div style=&amp;quot;float:right; border: 1px solid #777; width: 265px; padding: 3px&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;div style=&amp;quot;border: 1px solid #777&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[Image:Ipu picture.png]]&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;This is a picture of the Invisible Pink Unicorn. Really. Pink has been set as the transparency color for the alpha channel. Browsers which don't properly support the png format will display the unicorn, as will custom backgrounds...&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;[[Image:Ipu picture.png|frame|Like this.]]Images of the IPU typically show either a pink unicorn which is half faded into the background, or simply nothing.  Supposed &amp;quot;sightings&amp;quot; are also common which usually show an image of a place where the IPU was seen yet with nothing out of the ordinary at all in the photo.  These parody similar photos of cryptozoological animals that are often blurry, out of focus, or simply unremarkable.&lt;br /&gt;
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The IPU has also become a sort of mascot for atheists and other non-believers who display her image on shirts, mugs, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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As with the Islamic tradition of adding epithets to the names of Muslim prophets, &amp;quot;IPUists&amp;quot; generally add the epithets &amp;quot;Blessed Be Her Holy Hooves&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Peace Be Unto Her&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;May Her Hooves Never Be Shod&amp;quot;.  These are commonly shortened to bbhhh, pbuh, and mhhnbs.&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Category: Fictional deities]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Arno Matthias</name></author>	</entry>

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